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Close, I gave a few alternatives to the second have but yes that's basically it. I also added a punishment for any "Karma-Bombers" or Griefers in the PvE side. Not too bad but it does make it inconvenient for them too to a degree. I mean if they don't talk and just leave then it's also my win. Either way I will persevere and WIN
I agree with the definition and have pointed it out in this thread. Granted I will say that PvP is a broad term and if taken at face value PKing would be considered as a PvP aspect of a game. Player Vs. Player, Doesn't matter if the players agree or not if two players are opposing each other it would be PvP. AGAIN this is if you take PvP at face value. However if you put context or nuance then PvP is separate from PK. And Yes they should deal with the consequence however that doesn't mean it's completely fair. Since In the old system let them bully non PvPers(Those who have no interest in PvP. PvPers would be able to fight back or atleast can deal with it better) away from spots. They abused it. On the other Hand the current System can and sometimes is used to be abused by the PvErs. First Part Yes. Soft Cap is 30 so after 30 kills they get 30 minutes. After that let's say 2 Kills give a minute up to 1 Hour. From there Ever 3 Kills give 1 Minute up to 3 Hours. And Yes it would Pesist till they die. If they started it and killed the other person. If you defend then I want to say you get the EXP still but no Karma Loss and no Time to serve, Since you defended against an attack. Getting to Positive Karma is easy, It shouldn't be connected to that. Other wise they just escape the punishment. You can say that They can lessen their sentence by Grinding PASS the 300k Mark. Alternatively They would be in the negative and have to serve their sentence by grinding the time by Karma Gain. so 10k Karma for 1 Minute? However they WILL be in the negatives till they finish. Cleaner version: A.)Persist till death. B.)Will be in the Negative Karma till they work it over rate of 10k Karma for 1 Minute.
49.9... Basically my Main Musa then? He's the most geared out of all my characters. For the sole reason of "You want this spot so you kill me rather an talking it out? Even if I trying to talk to you? Then try killing me now" I'll out grind them if I can or atleast make them annoyed enough to talk. Then It's my win.
Well why are the PKers PKing to begin with? The spot? what's so special about that spot? EXP? Loot? I'm thinking they are mad at just getting negative. If that's the case we can lessen that by giving them a small reward, they can kill others great. Here's a small XP for killing SOMETHING. But Karma loss cause that's another player. We can also make it so the PKed get sent not to node but Town HOWEVER, Not only will the PKer get Negative Karma but if they DIE then they will not be able to use that character for a few minutes. Not alot but let's say 5 minutes per kill? or even a Minute will do up to let's say 30 Minutes? After that it'll take more kills to add a minute but the max would be an Hour. And it stays with you. Only way to reset is to be killed yourself and serve that time. If in the desert then there's the Jail. If you think that's unfair then we can add a debuf to the PKed and they will get less exp for a short while. But not lose EXP. The amount of time could also be proportional to how much that PKer has killed that PKed. IE if you purposely get killed by the same player that EXP debuff will be aslong or a bit longer than the punishment for that PKer The main Point PvErs want is a hard punishment for PKers for being Arses. PvPers are annoyed since the Risks are gone. Well now there's risk a huge one at that.
Ultimately I think Shiine does Agree with that Title but it's not something we should say as if it's nothing they say is valid. Point and Case if the argument is they want to force someone out then I agree take the Karma Hits. If the Argument is that there are no "real effect" then I would agree there is space to compromise and talk. Such as if they fight back then they get punish. We can also say that if it's just real effect then Karma Loss + EXP gain base on that player's Level would affect the PKer positively albeit not by alot. The PKed will just be killed a few times but ultimately they can persevere.
However to deal with this there needs to be a large change with how it is handled. Short term fixes is short term and will always favor one side over the other. Simplest way is to revamp the current system to one the takes both side's issue. To make it stick however then need accurate data on those issues and also suggestions on how they think the company could fix it. This won't happen unless the players them selves give those data AND give input/suggestion on how it can be remedied, saying "Bring this back" doesn't help since the other side was not happy with that. First everyone needs to think of WHY something works and not work for them. THEN explain that so the developers can take it in consideration. And Guild War thing is an option to do just not the optimal thing. Granted doing so might make the other guild pressure the member that triggered the incident to concede to the request of the people who he/she annoyed. And Yes I do think someone, hopefully PvE players, need to take the high road. As for discussion It's hard to work with the current system. Even with your suggestion it doesn't take into consideration those who simply can't "fight back" The "Die this is my spot" mentality is not corrected, since as your Example shows it's THAT mentality that make this a big issue.
I was considered as Karma bombing a few times. Specifically I was grinding in Helms and was killed by a wizard. I'm no PvPer I tried to fight back but I didn't use potions and they did, so even if I almost killed them I still died. Now I basically said if they asked nicely I would leave. That's all they had to do. But nope. So I kept coming back but not attacking him. Just Killed mobs. IF while keeping an eye on him and my health. Making sure the mob doesn't do the final hit. After a few minutes they left. Who was in the wrong? If they want to make it a PvP event then get a guild war going. Otherwise deal with it in the PvE way. Out grind the annoying person. If they are Grinding ie. PvE then they should deal with it in the PvE way. Karma Bombing is only an issue if you choose to make it as such ie. Kill people. Pick a poison, less efficient grinding for a bit or getting negative karma. If you can't out grind the other group or person then do they not deserve the spot? since they are doing PvE well? I get their annoyance, but at the same time think in most cases it they started or walked themselves into it.They use to say "Deal with it" to PvErs when it was going their way and now they are complaining much like the PvErs did at those times. To be fair the punishment for the "Karma-bombers" is that if they are trying to grind there the PKers are annoying mobs that they can't kill. I think the Category that separates someone as a Karma bomber/griefer is their purpose. If they go there kill mobs, you attack them kill them, then come back to fight you, over and over again then they are those Karma-bombers. On the other hand if they just keep killing mobs then they might not be. Try talking to them or deal with them the way that would "hurt" them. By making their grinding less efficient. EDIT: Also if Karma-Bombing is what taking Karma away doesn't it make it EXP-Bombing what the PKers did? And if they where in the receiving end of it they would also be complaining. It's easy to complain when your on the other side of the fence. I also commend you for trying to think of a solution. and trying to start a conversation. I always though that if something is not how you envisioned it then think of a solution. People will say what they think of your solution and if they think there's another way or otherwise a way to improve yours then they will. I also Agree that it would require a lot of effort and drastic changes to the current system but it's something they will need to do to make it fair. They have also had plans to have a Karma System connected to the Guild in the beginning, they might have removed that idea due to too much micromanagement, my suggestion is simpler compared to that.
Let's Also add in there First Kill by the PKer It's normal Karma Lost. Second kill will be Twice as much, and Third will result in three times more? The Idea with the Karma system is to make sure that PKers are punish. I'm not against PvP, I think it can be a fun aspect of a game that is if both parties want to. PKing is more of forcing PvP on someone, which is only fun for the side that is forcing. Since in most cases those affected by this are not the PvPers but PvE players. Case and point, people who are grinding or AFK fishing. If you want to go kill them you can but to be frank you need to be punish for doing so. PKing is kin to Murdering. PvP is more of sparring or dueling. Since if you just want the player to leave then there's other ways to go about it. If they went and entered your grinding spot, ask them to leave, party up, or decide if you can share the area. If all else fail then out perform them. If they are inconveniencing you then you in turn are doing the same to them. If they don't care but you do then it sounds more like a personal issue. Now I think the suggestion would be more so on how to make it fair for those who WANT to PvP. Those who do it not because of "I need to get this spot for grinding" rather I'm talking about those who see the PvE a means to get to the point where they can fight each other.
My suggestion? Make PvP a possible way to Level up. Killing other players will give you XP. This can be done in multiple ways, Either as a criminal or as a Bounty Hunter. Since one can argue that there are less players than mobs, yes killing players will net you more XP. Which will depend on how deep you are in your Karma. The criminals will get EXP from killing other players, ANY players be it among themselves or PvErs. Rewards come in the form of Large EXP compared to grinding mobs, and if they target trade runners then the trade items those folks carry. As for killing other normal players, the items they grinded? trash items come into mind or even "tokens" that you can turn in like hunter's seal. You also get more EXP from killing "Bounty Hunters" or the Positive Karma equivalent of the Criminals. On the other hand those who don't want to be in the wrong side of the "law" will specifically get EXP for killing the PKers. They would effectively be the police of the game, They don't want to PvP others who don't want to but rather want to PvP those who do. If you are a criminal then you DO want to PvP. These players will get EXP from killing mobs but also killing other players that have negative karma. They don't get as much as the criminals but they do get some extra EXP from those kills. If balance well then those who want to earn a living/level via PvP can do so. If you don't want to then you don't. To also make this a bit more fare if you do switch to being a Bounty Hunter of sorts you can't switch to "normal player" for a week and most likely be targeted by the criminals. On both of these they will have a "Threat" Level. Criminals will gain them as they kill other players. This could also affect the reward they get. More threat is more risk. Having high Threat will give your location to nearby players who can announce where you are. Same goes for Bounty Hunters. the Higher your threat level against Criminals the better your reward will be. However criminals will know your location more often at higher threat. Rewards for this could be handled as Daily Quests. That is dependent on how well you have performed in your roles. High Threat + Player kills + Hunter Kills for Criminals and High Threat + Criminal Kills for Bounty Hunters. Now the biggest issue for this is that all towns are hostile with Negative Karma. This could be remedied by adding some small outposts and a main hub city for the PKers. These areas would be hostile to any and all Positive Karma players but not for Negative Karma. They can access the Market Place, and do all the stuff they can normally do in cities here minus Trading. Their trade manager will be just for turning those stolen trade items in. Now where to put this city? Desert is primed for this since the idea for the desert was to be more of a PvP area. There's still areas in the map that could be used for this. They might also have small safe camps in the other region but they are not as protected. They are mostly there for a quick stop to resupply. The idea is that criminals will hunt Bounty Hunters and Bounty Hunters hunt Criminals. The rest of the players mind their business if they are doing something that might get them targeted by Criminals then that's their risk. If they aren't doing anything of the sort then the PKer will get a reward but also a punishment in the form of Bounty Hunters
EDIT: I did not take into consideration the Nodes. Thinking about it I think the best way to go about it is to let the guilds go at it and afterwards Criminals can try and take over areas. This can leave that node area semi safe for criminals to wander. This gives the guild owning the node a responsibility to keep that area secured for their own benefit but for the rest of the players as well. Also of note criminals can form their own guild but can only be recruit negative karma families. Those who join will make all their characters "guilty by association" they won't be killed out right but they can never get positive Karma. They will be stuck at Neutral. They also can't do trading. They can do quests, grind, buy at market place, etc. They will be limited since they can potentially rig the game if they aren't. I agree, however I would define splitting as completely separating the two and leaving no or very little interaction between the group. Giving them different areas but still able to interact in as much ways as possible wouldn't be splitting them. Hence my Suggestion.
PS: Not very good at explaining. So my suggestion might be a jumbled mess. The basic idea is give them roles to play. This is a ROLE-playing game.
In general I don't see many RPs in this game. A few of my friends and I RP quests or even just grinding for XP. Simple stuff like giving context to why we are killing Foxes to Extinction or why we must cut 800 or so trees. At first we used General chat but we have since moved to voiced RP in Discord, Rule is we stay in character until in-game night time in which we can go OOC. We also have our characters eat for a few in-game minutes.
I disagree, for the most part. While some Costume sets do have a counterpart for male and female some don't. Now if you say they should have a "bundle" where you can buy All those similar/same themed Sets for all your current and future classes then I'd be more inclined to agree. Granted that would be an expensive bundle, like buying 5 sets of armor at once. Another issue is that even the "similar" Armor sets have differences depending on race, class, and gender. If you really want this to happen don't just say "This is what I want." Explain ways that it could be implemented.
There IS a Negative Karma town in Valencia and I'm talking about the AREA not the CHANNEL. There's also the prison area in Valencia. That's the Consequences. Risk Vs Reward. Risk being EXP, Gems, Enchant lost. Now I do Agree there isn't a reward. Reward could be XP, The Ability to steal your target's horse, Rob trade runners, etc. I am bias, but I'm not talking out of my backside. I don't think PKing randoms was the point. It's PvP. The organized kind. If you like to kill other people then your free to do so. They didn't remove that. You just won't be playing the game as they intended.
Not sure what that means. Are you asking Vince for help in dealing with me? Am I being unreasonable? PS: I'm going now I need my rest. I'll reply to your response when I awake. It's so far been a pleasure. Even if we do have differences in our point of view.