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By the way for anyone wondering why the new echo flow feels weak, it's because the skill is currently bugged and only does 5 hits instead of 6 (the 1st part does 3 hits and 2nd part only does 2). Or at least this is what some of us found out while testing it. So it should be a 35% dmg increase compared to the base skill, but instead it's only a 12% dmg increase.
1) Still not giving any arguments 2) Then why does it only happen with tamer grab and not other float skills ? Also this issue is still affecting koreans just as much (not less like you seem to believe) even tho they have better servers and/or less ping, which proves even more that the issue we are discussing here is not server related (already said this before but you ignored it). 3) Knockdown for sure doesn't have any issues regarding both distance and direction, and i never said otherwise (i was answering dobe since he said this kind of issue happens on kd too, which isn't true). Float has issues but only on the distance, not the direction of the throw, which is the main issue with grab here. 4) It doesn't fix it. Look at this grab combo in the following video for example : https://youtu.be/OP4SIhJ9wq4?t=45 From 0:46 to 0:50, you can see the tamer doing grab>bj>echo>alround and yet the echo doesn't hit. You can also see that bj doesn't make the target reposition at all, the target only repositions itself when it gets up. You can look at other grab combos showed in this video and in about half of them, the grab bug happens, and bj never helps, the target always repositions itself when it gets up.
The position issues you are talking about are pve only, and we are talking about a pvp issue here. Besides, even if this tamer grab issue was the same kind of problem, those pve issues you talk about are being fixed as bugs, which means they aren't related to servers or desync, but clearly bugs in the game code itself (or server code at least, but not due to lag). So even if the tamer grab issue was this kind of problem, it would be a bug which can be fixed, and not due to servers being terrible.
Of course ranger grab can still desync, just like any grab can desync, even bound ones. But i was obviously talking about the issue we are discussing here (a target standing still is thrown in a random direction and random distance after grab). This specific issue doesn't happen with ranger grab.
Note : Already said this in comments above, but i am only talking about this very specific tamer issue when i say it's not desync. I don't mean that tamer grab doesn't have desync issues, it does have that too ofc, but other classes have the same desync issues on their grab, so this is nothing specific to tamers and it can't be fixed as a bug but only if they do something with lag in general. However tamer is the only class with the grab issue showed in my videos, and since it's a bug, and not server related, it can be fixed. Why i want this tamer grab bug to be fixed is because added on top of desync and the lack of superarmor on tamers grab, it makes it very annoying to use. If you grab, you take the risk to get cced while doing it, and then even if it hits, you have to hope for it to not desync, but then even if it doesn't desync at all, it can still bug and make you miss half of your dmg afterwards, that's too many chances for the game to ----- you over when you try to grab someone. If they would at least fix the grab issue showed in my videos, we would almost be on the same state as other classes when it comes to grab (except the lack of superarmor, but fairly certain that's intended and not a bug).
I also said that this issue doesn't happen with other float/kd skills, at least the direction part doesn't. However it is true that the distance made by a float isnt always correctly synced, but floats never throw characters in front of you, not to the left or to the right, which is the main issue here with tamer grab. The issue we are talking about here is specific to tamer grabs, it doesn't happen with any other skill in the game as far as we know. Also you say that this happens with any kd/float, then why does it not happen with ranger grab ? Ranger grab is kd and yet you will always land in front of the ranger after a grab. I talked about that in my last comment but it looks like you purposely avoided that part, or missed it.
I don't know how many times i will have to explain this, but this tamer grab issue has nothing to do with desync, read comments above. Besides, using bolt+jolt after grab doesn't help to avoid the bug. If the bug happens, you will most likely hit the bolt+jolt because of the large aoe, but you will still miss your following skills with small hitboxes like echo. However you can reduce the impact of this bug by using mostly large aoe skills after grab, and avoiding skills like echos as much as possible (you still need to do one for swap purposes usually). For instance a typical grab combo is : bj > lbp > bj > echo > moonlight > full moon. The echo will most likely miss, and maybe even the moonlight and/or full moon (but missing everything is unlikely). Most of your dmg will hit even if the bug happens, which is what you want. You can also try to avoid awakening skills like echo and moonlight completely, but you lose some dmg. But if the bug was fixed, our dmg/invulnerability potential after grab would be increased since we would be able to hit skills like echo all the time. By the way it is possible to make a grab work properly even if it's not a bound (ie ranger grab is knockdown and it has no issues of that kind). So they could most likely fix tamer grab if they wanted to.
Tamer bugs make it close to unplayable atm, which is why most tamers are rerolling/quitting. Meanwhile this ninja/kuno bug doesn't even happen once a day for most players and almost never has an impact. In fact i don't see how this could make anyone reroll or quit. Doesn't matter how you look at it and what class you play, you can clearly tell tamer bugs are a bigger problem and devs should be focusing on those before any other classes bugs.
1. Then why does it not happen with other float skills ? (the sliding/teleporting issue) 2. Well what other class has this issue ? And what skills ? Hope you can bring proof too because i won't be able to test it myself. 3. "Permanent desync" isn't what happens here. The target was always in front of me during my tests (in both our screens), and he himself saw the grab throw him in a random direction every time. So it is NOT a desync issue (since it happens for both players). And did you even watch the videos ? The target didn't move once between all my grabs, so the server had all the time to "sync" as you say. Desync literally can't happen if your opponent isn't doing anything (ie in my tests). 4. Then why is this grab issue a thing in those servers too ? I can link you videos of koreans experiencing the exact same bug, so it's not because of our server, it's an ingame bug. 5. There are a lot of easy-to-fix bugs that they still haven't fixed after almost a year of bug reports (for example pet dying from a bit of water), so it's not that they can't fix it, it's just they aren't even trying to. Lastly i agree with you about echo hitbox and how desync affects it, echo should have a bigger hitbox, no one can disagree with that. But it's not the issue we are talking about here. If grab worked properly, at least we would be 100% sure that the target is straight in front of us and echo would pmuch never miss after successful grabs.
I explained it before but i guess you didn't read the whole post.. Tamer grab issues mentioned here are not related to desync, and this is a tamer only issue. Also it doesn't happen with any other float skills, so it has to do with the tamer grab skill itself, not floats in general. This is just normal desync, wouldn't happen on targets not moving at all, unlike the tamer bug. And the tamer issue has always been there, but since bolt/jolt still hits due to its high aoe range, it wasn't really hurting our ability do dmg people after a grab, but now it does (mostly because echo doesn't hit at all 90% of grabs). So again, desync will always be there and it affects all classes. BUT the bug we are talking about here has nothing to do with desync, which is why it can and should be fixed.
Just so people don't get confused, this bug has nothing to do with magic dmg this only happens with wizard/witch, not with other magic dmg classes (we don't take more dmg from sorcs and other tamers). Also all tamer/sorc/wizard/witch skills are supposed to be full magic dmg, doesn't matter if they look like physical or not, dmg type seems to only be relative to class. For example ranger sword skills most likely do ranged dmg even tho they are melee.
Those are about the actual skill set of the class, not stats (control is in there because they mean the amount of cc you can do with skills ie stuns, stiffness, knockdowns). So the defense curve is about the amount of skills you get with blocks/superarmor/defensive stuff (remember that those were made before awakening and tamer had indeed close to no defense ability back then). Tamer is not supposed to take more dmg than other classes.
There is another important bug that should be added to this list (yes i still have some hope that a dev is looking at this list, or will at some point). It only affects node wars/sieges but most consider those as the main point of the game so it can't be ignored. So i'm sure anyone who regularly does node wars/sieges noticed that sometimes your character gets locked in a direction when doing certain skills. This seems to happen randomly and when it does it makes it so that you can't rotate your skill at all for its whole duration, mostly annoying for skills like spinner or vermilion bird. No idea why it only happens during node wars/sieges, and only with tamer (never heard/seen any other class have that issue), but this should be worked on quickly since we are already considered a weak class in sieges and it makes it worse.
Yes i meant Iconic, Blackrose and Fortune were allied, and it's not a guess, it's been confirmed as you can see above (and by the fact that they let Iconic kill their bases once Vision was down, like allies always do once they cleared the war ?). Iconic did have cannons, only talked about Blackrose ones because they started using them even when they weren't supposed to take part of the fight (which is lame). And you are saying Iconic would have won 1v1 ? I don't think you watched the same siege mate.