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    • IMPORTANT - REACH US IN THE NEW FORUM   05/04/2017

      Ladies and gentlemen ATTENTION please:
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        As previously announced, from now on IT WON'T BE POSSIBLE TO CREATE THREADS OR REPLY in the old forums. From now on the old forums will be readable only. If you need to move/copy/migrate any post/material from here, feel free to contact the staff in the new home. We’ll be waiting for you in the NEW Forums!

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    • WICHTIG: Das Forum ist umgezogen!   05/04/2017

      Damen und Herren, wir bitten um Eure Aufmerksamkeit, es ist an der Zeit umzuziehen!
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    • IMPORTANT: Le nouveau forum   05/04/2017

      Aventurières, aventuriers, votre attention s'il vous plaît, il est grand temps de déménager!
      Comme nous vous l'avons déjà annoncé précédemment, il n'est désormais plus possible de créer de nouveau sujet ni de répondre aux anciens sur ce bon vieux forum.
      Venez visiter le nouveau forum!
      https://community.blackdesertonline.com
      De nouvelles fonctionnalités ainsi que de nouveaux outils vous attendent dès à présent et d'autres arriveront prochainement! N'ayez pas peur du changement et rejoignez-nous! Amusez-vous bien et a bientôt dans notre nouveau chez nous

Mooncutter

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About Mooncutter

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  1. Mooncutter added a post in a topic The psychology of RNG, and why it is doing more harm to the game than the devs realize..   

    I posted this a while back in another RNG thread (there have been so many). For the TL:DR version, skip to the last two paragraphs.

    Folks want to be rewarded for their time, and seeing a gear enhancement attempt fail and downgrade feels more like a punishment, failstack or not. BDO relies far too heavily on RNG to artificially increase the difficulty of the game and to avoid stale predictability. However, this is a very lazy tactic that becomes more obvious when used too often, and BDO has RNG coming out the wazoo in very nearly every aspect of the game.

    A little RNG is not a bad thing. It can make you cheer audibly when you see that rare bhegs pop up after a couple months of regular weekly scrolls. You'll search for your significant other to pick them up in a bear hug when you get S rank knowledge in your favorite grind spot. You'll screenshot your kutum box and post it to your guildmates in Discord to engender their praises and cries of jealousy.

    However, there is a dark side to RNG, if the number of posts on the forum about it can be any indication. Most folks tend to play games to have fun. You can find plenty of posts discussing the optimum failstacks, mob rotations, node link setups to earn the most silver, and spreadsheets rife with data to prove the poster's claims. You can find a plethora of anecdotes about the mind-numbing hours of grind done only to be back-pedaled by a failed enhancement, while their friend gets a success with the smallest fraction of that time investment. When someone feels like they are not being rewarded for time spent in the game- or even worse, punished- then the game is no longer fun for them to play. It transforms from game to chore, to 2nd (or 1st) job, one where the employee only hopes to earn a paycheck when they come to collect. When an enhancement finally does go through, players are not excited (or at least as excited as they should be). They are instead relieved, glad it is finally over with so they can move on to the next wall to bang their heads against.

    BDO suffers from a horrible imbalance of RNG for its western audience, who tend to glean enjoyment from a far smaller level of it in their games. Unless rectified, this imbalance will continue to push its dwindling playerbase to other games that promise more rewarding gameplay. I'm not saying we need to remove RNG altogether, but a dramatic reduction and/or a more effective, affordable method of protecting from/countering failure would go a long way towards making players feel like their time is well spent earning what they get. This in turn will keep them around and bring new players into the fold, keeping the game alive and well.

    As far as the argument of, "If folks can get best gear fully enhanced without working for it, everyone will get bored and leave", I'm not saying they shouldn't have to put in effort to get it, nor should gearing be the ultimate focus of the game. Gearing should only ever be a means to an end- i.e. giving us the tools to face the greatest content in the game. If the devs are trying to cruise by without making new and exciting content by artificially making gear progression hard (rng/time/resources, not by actual challenge) then they need to be called out on it, give us the means to fully deck out our characters with a more reasonable effort, and get back to work on making content for us to use it in.
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  2. Mooncutter added a post in a topic [ROLEPLAY] The Great RP war - The White Knights of the Round Table   

    I will happily take the role of Scott Sterling- wherein I will fight against the evils of this world as my face is smashed in over and over again!
     
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  3. Mooncutter added a post in a topic The "Gift of Giving" Megathread   

    Server: NA
    Request: Fish costume for my musa
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  4. Mooncutter added a post in a topic Is RNG making people despair and leave?   

    Answer to the question of the forum title is yes, it is.

    Folks want to be rewarded for their time, and seeing a gear enhancement attempt fail and downgrade feels more like a punishment, failstack or not. BDO relies far too heavily on RNG to artificially increase the difficulty of the game and attempt to avoid stale predictability. However, this is a very lazy tactic that becomes more obvious when used too often, and BDO has RNG coming out the wazoo in very nearly every aspect of the game.

    A little RNG is not a bad thing. It can make you cheer audibly when you see that rare bhegs pop up after a couple months of regular weekly scrolls. You'll search for your significant other to pick them up in a bear hug when you get S rank knowledge in your favorite grind spot. You'll screenshot your kutum box and post it to your guildmates in Discord to engender their praises and cries of jealousy.

    However, there is a dark side to RNG, as this thread gives plenty of voice to. Most folks tend to play games to have fun. You can find plenty of posts discussing the optimum failstacks, mob rotations, node link setups to earn the most silver, and spreadsheets rife with data to prove the poster's claims. You can find a plethora of anecdotes about the mind-numbing hours of grind done only to be back-pedaled by a failed enhancement, while their friend gets a success with the smallest fraction of that time investment. When someone feels like they are not being rewarded for time spent in the game- or even worse, punished- then the game is no longer fun for them to play. It transforms from game to chore, to 2nd (or 1st) job, one where the employee only hopes to earn a paycheck when they come to collect. When an enhancement finally does go through, players are not excited (or at least as excited as they should be). They are instead relieved, glad it is finally over with so they can move on to the next wall to bang their heads against.

    BDO suffers from a horrible imbalance of RNG for its western audience, who tend to glean enjoyment from a far smaller level of it in their games. If the number of threads about the topic at hand is any indicator, it will continue to push it's dwindling playerbase to other games that promise more rewarding gameplay. I'm not saying we need to remove RNG altogether, but a dramatic reduction and/or a more effective and affordable method of protecting from/countering failure would go a long way towards making players feel like their time is well spent earning what they get. This in turn will keep them around and bring new players into the fold, keeping the game alive and well.

    As far as the argument of, "If folks can get best gear fully enhanced without working for it, everyone will get bored and leave", I'm not saying they shouldn't have to put in effort to get it, nor should gearing be the ultimate focus of the game. Gearing should only ever be a means to an end- i.e. giving us the tools to face the greatest content in the game. If the devs are trying to cruise by without making new and exciting content by artificially making gear progression hard (rng/time/resources, not by actual challenge) then they need to be called out on it, give us the means to fully deck out our characters with a more reasonable effort, and get back to work on making content for us to use it in.

    TL:DR- read the last two paragraphs
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  5. Mooncutter added a post in a topic shovel exploit abusers   

    My perfect punishment scenario:

    Assign the account a debuff that turns the character into a big pink fluffy bunny on login. This debuff instills perma red status, disables attacks and GS is scaled down to 1. Removing the debuff from the account requires a specific number of PK's (suicide by falling/drowning will not count), with a cooldown in the range of about a minute between PK's to count towards removal, along with a fixed distance from the last PK. Going AFK also prohibits PKs from counting towards removal. Auto pathing and looping is disabled for the duration of the debuff. Rewards for killing the bunny is 100k silver. Essentially those found guilty of abusing the exploit will be forced to run around getting killed by other players Not only does this turn every player against them, but it wastes their valuable xp/silver earning time as they get their death quota satisfied.

    In addition, I'd still take away their TET/PEN gear and wipe out their storage silver. Let them start back over the right way. If they can't handle it and quit, so be it. The game will be better off without cheaters.
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  6. Mooncutter added a post in a topic Orwen Discord   

     I did find an older one, but it felt neglected and did not seem to encompass multiple game elements. A guildmate and I believed we could expand on the idea and bring new life to it.
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  7. Mooncutter added a topic in General   

    Orwen Discord
    Join us on a new Discord server for the Orwen community. The purpose of this server is to provide a one-stop shop for Orwen's playerbase across all elements of the game- from general purpose game discussion, guild politics, roleplay, group finding, and more!
    Come check us out https://discord.gg/faSHVcM and be a part of making Orwen the best server to play on!
    • 2 replies
    • 416 views
  8. Mooncutter added a post in a topic Value pack   

    They can take up to a day to show up in your mailbox. Be patient, if it doesn't show up after 24 hours you may want to explore options with Support.
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  9. Mooncutter added a post in a topic I called it back in release   

    A lot of us saw the writing on the wall, but none of us could stop it, since the only thing game developers seem to listen to these days are players' wallets. There is a reason microtransactions/pay for convenience/pay to progress/pay to win (whatever you want to call it) continues to plague this generation of games- it works. Developers design the games to hook you, then slowly crank up the hindrances built in that produce enjoyment. This creates incentive for the players to pay to remove this hindrance with the promise of getting to the fun parts faster and easier. Players throw money into the cash shops and make developers heaping piles of cash fast, which they take and make more games with attractive cash shops. They do this because keeping an online game going after the initial thrill wears off is much harder, and much more expensive, and developers want to get the money upfront before anyone leaves. Building a solid community on one game is much harder than just copying the base game and making it newer and shinier and charging the same folks all over again. Claiming they are numbering the game's days does not hit them all that hard- they can just make another game.
    If we want to truly stop such a practice, players everywhere would have to boycott the cash shops in games across the board to tell developers that such a practice is not to be tolerated. However it is so effectively raking in the money for them, and we cannot stop people from spending their money on what they want, game developers intentionally design their games to hinder enjoyment instead of producing it, with the promise that you can get the enjoyment faster and easier if you pay them more.
    Another problem we're faced with is defining Pay to Win. Personally, I find 'pay for convenience' to be a croc PR spin. Anything that provides a clear advantage built into the game is pay to win, in which case there have been P2W items since the cash shop first opened (weight limits, costumes with +10% xp, pets to decrease time spent looting, spending pearls to shorten breeding times, reduced taxes, etc). With the case of weight limits and inventory, these inconveniences were the intentional hindrances I mentioned earlier specifically designed to pry open wallets. It becomes P2W as you can hasten or bypass any hindrances slowing you by having to manage inventory, return to towns to dump loot and cash, gaining xp or gear at a faster rate. One who buys these 'conveniences' clearly has the advantage of faster progress in less time.
    If we accept the definition of P2W as everything offering any minute amount of advantage, then why the big fuss now? It's because it's actually a question of degrees, and the preferences of how far before it is considered unfair, which is entirely subjective. Buying a 0.001% xp boost may be negligible, but a 1000% boost would clearly be a steep advantage. Aside from the degree of perks, prices play a role too. Someone pays $1 for an extra inventory slot, all may be well and good since it's pretty affordable to most, but a $100 to increase a weight limit by 20 might be considered a steep price wall that few would be willing to purchase, making them exclusive users of the advantage. It all comes down to the number of people willing to pay $x for perk y.
    As for how disgruntled a player base can get, we can complain on forums and reddit until our fingers hurt, but ultimately I suspect developers will focus the most on two pieces of quantifiable data when inserting a new item or feature into the game- how many players are consistently continuing to log in regularly (by extension how many have quit) relative to general trends like the decline of numbers when not introducing new events or items, and the actual amount of purchases in the cash shop (by extension how much money are they making/losing over the introduction of the item/feature). Chances of us banding together to send them a message are highly unlikely, as there will always be people willing to spend a little more to get ahead, especially in a competitive environment like the open world pvp of Black Desert in which gear plays such an important role.
     
    TL:DR- The cash shop in BDO is exceedingly Pay2Win, though the acceptable level of which in any given game is entirely subjective to a player. However you can be sure developers put ample research into setting their prices and designing their items to attract the largest profits possible. There's not much we can do about it because it succeeds in getting game developers money, which is why they design it that way. True change of microtransaction business models require the player communities in more than any one game sending the message that it is not a profitable venture for them to continue the practice, which might never happen. The only thing you can really do is control your own wallet and contribute to the voice you want- the voice telling developers 'this is an acceptable deal to me', or the voice telling them 'enough.'
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  10. Mooncutter added a topic in Roleplay   

    Aphotic Vanguard- RP PvX
    Guild Summary
    Darkness has fallen. What was once truth and order has become lies and chaos. From the ashes, a new order has formed, The Aphotic Vanguard; a fellowship of hunters, the magic users that created the hunters, and those that stand with them. It is a collision of worlds between Black Desert and the Witcher. Each one navigating through the darkness in an effort to survive. Unbeknownst to them, is a new entity; something unknown, unseen and dangerous. In the fight against this new entity, where would you fit?
    Guild Basic Information
    Region: NA
    Server: Orwen
    Channel: Calpheon 2
    Style: RP-PvX
    Website: http://aphoticvanguard.enjin.com/home
    We are RP-PvX!
    AV aspires to blend roleplay into all elements and play styles within the richly immersive world of Black Desert Online. This means we would like to participate in player-vs-player (PvP) in the form of sieges, node acquisition and defense, bounty hunting, assassinations, wars, etc. As well as player-vs-environment (PvE) elements such as monster bounties, world bosses, hunting, farming, taming, fishing, etc.
    A place for all!
    The Elegy - The world swirls with forces that comprise it, bind it, stir conflict within it as each works with and against each other. Some are as basic as the elemental forces like fire, ice, or lightning. Still others are shrouded in mystery; ancient arcane magics long forgotten or barely understood. The circles within the Elegy seeks to study and harness these forces, choosing for themselves a Circle that aligns with their interests, each independent yet held to account by the Luminary who acts as both mediator and public figurehead. Though each Circle may have its own unique purpose, they are united together under the Vanguard’s ultimate goals.

    The Dìobarach - These superhuman hunters exist for one purpose, to hunt the monstrous beings that lurk among the shadows and the darkness. They are created...transformed into soldiers...by the members of The Elegy. While they were once orphans, prisoners, or anyone else that would not be missed by society, the few that survive the trials and the transformation are granted more power than any human in order to protect the innocent citizens, though they will rarely be thanked for it.

    The Etiam - the process that creates the Diobarach leaves far too few alive. The Elegy and the Diobarach recognize the need for additional support, both in their day-to-day activities of general upkeep and maintenance of equipment, to skilled fighters ready to fight alongside them but for one reason or another do not undergo the Changing into a Diobarach. These men and women earn their place in the Vanguard through their own deeds and skills, without the artificial enhancements of the Elegy. While some have their own unique skills to offer, many here prove it takes more than power to conquer the darkness- it takes a strong and stout spirit. Courage makes its own light in the darkness. Note:Joining the site does NOT make you a full member of the guild. You certainly have the option to become one but the site is also open to friends, leaders that wish to form an RP alliance** with us, or simply the curious. Our members are brimming with plot lines we look forward to sharing with the NA RP community.**Alliance does not have to be friendly. We welcome RP alliances with any guild regardless of if you are friendly or antagonistic to us within the RP environment. 
    • 0 replies
    • 351 views
  11. Mooncutter added a post in a topic CBT-2 Cash Shop Prices and Items Discussion   

    If they don't see enough profits from the costumes and dyes, they'll eventually be forced to reduce the prices if they hope to keep the lights on. Bear in mind this will only happen if the whales don't keep the cash flowing in sufficient amounts. Game-making is still a business, and they are in it for profits as much as anything else.

    With relatively high prices in the cash shop, they will net a lot of upfront cash, then bait the rest of the players who withheld buying anything through a number of possible methods:
    -Decrease costs with temporary sales
    -Decrease costs with permanent discounts, but release new costumes and dyes at the old price, rinse and repeat
    -Take the costumes off the market, then bring them back temporarily to make them more attractive with an artificial supply choke
    -Some combination of the above
     
    It could even be that the prices were consciously made higher than they knew most people would be willing to pay, in effort to make future planned sales appear more attractive (i.e. "Omg, Wizard costume is on 50% discount for 7 days only! I have to get this while it's affordable!")
     

    When enough people have played their fill of the different aspects in the game, burned out on the antics of the cash grabs, and the next big shiny mmo's come out, people will walk away. It happens in any mmo over time, but it happens faster when players don't feel they are treated right. As I've said before, the cash shop stunt is going to result in a short term gain, but they will lose out on long term profits they could have gained from starting off on the right foot. They've shown a lack of faith in player dedication to staying with the game, and as a self-fulfilling prophecy, their actions will sour players the game much sooner. Guild Wars 2, released in 2012 is still going on strong. Archeage, released less than a year later, has players leaving by the busload.
     
    To avoid being merely a criticism, I offer the following suggestions:
    -Cut the prices, permanently (first and obvious action, as recommended by so many before me)
    -Make a dye use permanent once obtained and unlocked. If not, dramatically cut the price (consumable dyes have far less worth than permanent dyes). Another option may be a permanent use dye in the store with consumable dyes as item drops or sold by vendors. Again, you pay for convenience, not to unlock content otherwise denied to you.
    -Offer more variety of costumes, and offer the ability to acquire them in-game without paying a cent. Then, when costumes are purchased, it was done so as a convenience and not with a feeling of being forced to. Also, if character creator is our only method of self-expression and creatively making our character stand out, if we see everyone running around in the same armor everywhere we go, it will get stale very fast. Add in a little diversity here.
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  12. Mooncutter added a post in a topic Good build for Wiz? (New to the game)   


    Thanks for the clarification. Have a Like!
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  13. Mooncutter added a post in a topic CBT-2 Cash Shop Prices and Items Discussion   

    I've seen several posts in the forums from folks claiming that the prices are reasonable because they compare to several other mmo's. Aside from the fact that many of them are F2P and we are faced with a F2P shop in a B2P game, there is another reason this game feels more unreasonable with its prices- there is practically no player diversity in this game without opening your wallet. In most of the other games, the armor diversity was sufficient to change up a player's looks so you very rarely came across someone with the exact same look in gear. Guild Wars 2 has so many armor types that can be mixed and matched, with dyes that can be used all day as many times as you want, once they have been unlocked. In BDO the available dyes and armor options are not all that varied and are one-time use, so while we can express individuality in the amazing character creator, we are left all wearing the same outfits, with the best ones locked away behind a door with a dollar sign-shaped keyhole.
    The prices may have been more acceptable if we had more choices. They may have been more acceptable if they were cheaper. They may have been more acceptable if we had other ways of obtaining dyes or at least the dyes we obtained could be used more than once. When you force everyone into the same outfits, hold the dyes and better outfits ransom, and set a high price tag on them, it reeks of a money grab. It makes the players feel like they are seen as nothing but cash cows to be milked dry until the next game can come out with newer, still-expensive items to purchase, repeating the cycle. This sours the relationship between players and developers, which is very hard to come back from. You think people will forget about Archeage's P2W antics? Tera's plethora of cash shop skins? EA's DLC's? Black Desert is certainly headed to the same destination at its current direction.
    Suggestions:
    Dyes- permit use of dye as many times as you want once acquired; allow more dyes to be obtained out of the cash shop, perhaps through crafting
    Costumes- lower the price tag, offer more options outside of cash shop, or both
     
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  14. Mooncutter added a post in a topic Good build for Wiz? (New to the game)   

    I'm confused about the skill point system. How do you earn skill points? Through combat, quests, or both? Can you not earn enough skill points to fill out your entire set of skills?
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  15. Mooncutter added a post in a topic Question for people defending cash prices   

    It's not a question of convenience items vs P2W items at this point. Such was a topic long discussed prior to the release of cash shop pricing. The issue that now has everyone so riled up is about what a reasonable price is to pay for the items within, and the ramifications of blowing those prices out of the water.
    Granted, 'reasonable' is a subjective term open to many interpretations, but when 90% of the posts online are crying foul, something has clearly gone wrong. I'll readily admit more often than not the forum posts tend to be about a disgruntled concern of one kind or another, but each thread also gets counterbalanced by a certain distribution of 'for' or 'against' replies. At a certain point the sheer number of posts expressing dissatisfaction with the set prices has to be a reflection of most people's opinion on the matter.
    As for ramifications, in mmo's when the mass majority of players feel deprived of content, treated like 2nd class cash cows, or otherwise left unhappy, the game will not last long, and you'll soon be left with the much smaller minority of dedicated whales or the folks who wanted P2W in the first place.
    Just because I have the funds available to purchase the items, does not mean I will if I feel I am not getting a good value for it. It's a common point made that "you don't have to buy it if you don't like it." However, to keep the lights on, the developers employed, and the servers running, they do need a certain level of funding. They will never meet that if players close their wallets or leave. Wallets will not open if people don't feel they are getting a fair shake on the deal. If they do open their wallets after all that, they are left bitter about it, and eventually leave. It's all related.
     
    I'm reminded of a study where folks were put into a series of 5 scenarios, one after the other, that built from the previous scenario. They start the first scenario with a group of 5 presented with $1 each. They were told they could pool their $1 which would get matched, or they could keep it. Each member would then receive an even distribution of the pooled money. Thus, if each member would contribute all their money, the group as a whole would make the most amount ($50, or $10 each), but if one member kept all their money, that one person would make the most ($13, the rest make $8) , and if no members contributed, they would all receive only their $1 each time ($5 total per person). Invariably by the last scenario, everyone withheld their dollar. No one ever made the full $10 each.
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