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  1. Post on The "Griefing" Cycle in General

    By Serabelle, posted
    You are out looking for a grind spot, be it Sausans or Pirates, and they are all taken.
    Change channels. You see a spot that appears clear and begin the grind. Player comes out of nowhere and kills you then says spot taken.
    You're "triggered" and pk the person to steal said spot or you walk away and eventually find a new spot.
    Finally found a new spot and player walks over....
    A.) Luckily, they walk away.
    B.) They try to out grind you out of your spot  solo or with another party. 
    C.) Flag up and try to pk you out (Solo or with party)
    D.) Party up with you... again solo or with his or her own party.
    In the end, all three endings lead to greatly diminished efficiency. Whether you are a veteran grinding out hours for a fraction of a percent or new player just trying to get your foot in the door. Option A will only happen X amount of times before B, C or D come around.
    Sharing isnt necessarily bad but grinding alone gets you the most exp/loot for your time in most cases. Plus you pk'd, changed channels X amount of times till you got this spot So why should you share it?
    Weirdly enough this mmo has a way of making you perceive every other unknown player as a threat to your progress. In which case flagging up or karma bombing becomes a go-to method of continuing optimal efficiency (thus the Griefing cycle!). 
    Separate loot (which other games have implemented) and removing the exp reduction in party could help alleviate the issue. 
  2. Hello Devs and thank you for reading this!
    So to start, I think we can all agree that the karma system is a great way of keeping bloodthirsty players in check. The fact that they can start losing exp after going negative is brilliant in it's own right. However, the guild "declaration of war" system was also brilliant. It allows player to freely fight amongst each other without reaping any of the negative side effects. This particularly comes in handy when people are grinding at Sausan Garrison or Kuit Island (Pirate island).
    Example: A player decides that they want to take over your grinding spot, they start killing your rotation despite you telling them that it's taken, you have the opportunity (if the guild is ready for war) to initiate the declaration of war feature and force that individual out. - Brilliant !
    PROBLEM: While the declaration of war feature is brilliant, I feel that the PVP system has a hole in it. What do you when the same scenario happens, and that person has no guild? Answer: Try to grind faster? But in reality it's nothing. There is no permanent solution to this problem.
    SOLUTION: We create a Blacklist system for the individual player.  Identical to the declaration of war feature, the number of people you can blacklist will be limited. Furthermore, so players cannot use this as an exploit to attack anyone anywhere, you'll have a long cool down per person that you blacklist.
    Example: I have the ability to blacklist 5 people. Each slot that I fill has a 12 hour cool down. I use up slots 1,2 &3 protecting my grind spot. Slots 4 & 5 are still available to use whenever, while slots 1,2 &3 are counting down. This cool down feature allows the players to use the blacklist system but not abuse it.
    I hope this is something we can look forward to in the future, I know it would improve BDO in the best way possible!
  3. I know you guys arent the devs but bear with me.

    Looking at it from a Common sense and lore perspective, it kind of irritates me that if you kill even once in a desolate and lawless wateland and die, you are taken to jail.

    while at the same time, you have the freedom to kill 6 times or more in a completely populated and civilised part of the world, without any reprecussions.

    It seems quite opposite doesnt it? I mean, the empty desert has guards that are somewhere invisible and suddenly appear when we die to take us to jail, and the country which actually has guards patrolling the roads just watch people get killed and go like, 'Ayy bro, imma give you 5 more chances atleast to get straight ya hear!?'

    To me, it makes MUCH more sense that if you are red ad killed in Balenos/serendiah/calpheon/mediah you get taken to jail. and then have the desert in valencia as a completely lawless location. PK all you want, go -1mill karma, no concequences.

    Things make sense like that.
  4. Post on Karma changes when? in PVP

    By Przemoboski, posted
  5. What is Kamasylve (Veteran) Channel?It is a channel prepared for veteran adventurers with the freedom to defend or attack others in world pvp.The Karma system is deactivated.  Dying to another adventurer results in a 30 second respawn timer.You can gain extra 10% of EXP.  (Removed - We just want a free pvp channel)You can enter at or above level 58.If you can access the Kamasylve channel, you can also access other channels freely.  (Besides Olivia) 
    Thoughts appreciated.  I know a multitude of other players that would love this implemented in the game.  If you like it, please share this post with others so that we might get the developers attention.
    this idea wasn't mine innitially, I just wanted to put it out there so others can give their input.
    My Opinion:
    This would solve a number of problems for the pvp playerbase:
    Those that are geared and want to have a grindspot to themselves can attack and defend it against others that want to try and take it.Those that dislike being attacked while they grind (either from lack of pvp skills or gear) can stay on the other channels, and likely experience less griefing as the players that would kill them would be on the Kamasylve channels.Those that are overgeared and getting bored with the games content have more freedom to adventure in a more dangerous world where fights can happen anywhere. Streamers and content creators would have a channel that has spontaneous pvp around every corner that would be entertaining for an audience, which would encourage and bring new players to the game.Guilds that want to have large scale free-for-all world pvp can join these channels and meet up in a specific location without having every other guild declare war on them.  (Man-up and other large guilds are already doing this)
  6. Hey guys, as you can tell by the title of this thread I am here to currently touch base with the PvP system of the game. Aside from GvG and sieges there is no real open world PvP. Before you guys start commenting something stupid like "omg yes there is you can kill people anywhere" here me out:
    This is the current system in place for OwPvP:
    Player A is heavily geared with full TRI boss armor and accessories. Player B is a new player just reaching level 57 with average gear like DUO Grunil with maybe some PRI accessories.
    Scenario 1: Player B is farming (doesn't matter where), Player A wants to farm where Player B is farming. So Player A decides he is going to kill Player B. Player B gets killed, Player A looses Karma. End of story. (Anything that happens afterwards DOES NOT MATTER in this situation)
    Scenario 2: Player A is farming (doesn't matter where), and this time Player B wants Player A's spot. Player B knows that he can't kill Player A so he decides to just go to the spot and start killing his mobs and screw up his rotation. Player A doesn't like this so he kills Player B. Player B comes back and continues. 
    Now clearly this system is absolutely -----ED for BOTH situations. In scenario A for example Player A looses nothing but Karma for killing Player B. Now before you get your panties in a bundle and yell at me with: "OMG KARMA IS A BIG DAEL YYOU CAN LOSE CRYSTALSLS" listen because this is the current Karma system consequences:
    Karma: Once you hit negative Karma you can start to loose XP. This is THE BIGGEST thing you can loose to karma. Some may argue that crystals are also big, but you can use different set of gear with cheap crystals to PvP to easily bypass this. But if you loose XP, guess what that means: MORE GRINDING. Basically adding more grinding to the game then their already is.
    This system is absolute GARBAGE. I'm surprised this hasn't been ironed out already because this is literal trash. Now instead of me just saying the system is bad and calling it a day I'm going to propose a better system to make the game into its full end game potential.
    MY Suggestion:
    REMOVE the Karma system all together and replace it with an "Alignment" system OR something of the sort. Here is how the Alignment system would work:
    There can be many alignments but for this example I am going to use the 3 MOST BASIC alignments possible:
    Innocent (green)
    Criminal (yellow)
    Murderer (red)
    Now here is how the system works:
    Player A is a INNOCENT player (green) and Player B is ALSO an INNOCENT player (green). Now no matter the conflict lets just say Player B doesn't like Player A and wants to kill him. Player A HITS Player B, Player A now becomes a CRIMINAL (yellow) player. Lets say Player B decides to fight back, if he hits Player A back HE ALSO TURNS INTO A CRIMINAL PLAYER (yellow). DON'T yell at me just yet and hear this full system out and how it plays out in the end. Lets say in the second scenario Player B decides not to fight Player A back, and Player A kills Player B. Player A now becomes a MURDERER. You will ONLY become a Murderer if you KILL a GREEN player. KILLING a YELLOW player DOES NOT make you a murderer. 
    Now that the states of the alignments and how you transition between them has been explained I will now explain the consequences and how you avoid them.
    The only way to get out of an alignment is TIME. There will be no more ~70 karma per mob kill bullshit. If you turn yellow, you stay yellow for X amount of time. Each other hit you do after becoming yellow RESETS the time and DOES NOT add more time. Same thing goes for Murderer HOWEVER, if you are a red player and kill another green player it ADDS more time instead of resetting your time. 
    Okay now for the consequences:
    Innocent (green) - The consequences for dying as a green player are the following: You drop ALL silver you are carrying. YOU LOOSE NO EXP. YOU LOOSE NO CRYSTALS. However you also loose 5 MAX durability on ALL your gear you are wearing. This feature can be changed and ironed out as I understand how it may be a little bit harsh but I personally thing this would work perfectly. Now, how does this make things better you may ask. Well, the following is what this changes:
    A. A player can no longer just keep coming back and griefing you as a green player because there are consequences to dying even as a green player. 
    B. A player can no longer just die over and over again and keep coming back with 0 consequences. (this is complete bs).
    Now many of you will say wow this just makes it so really geared people can just kill you and kill you until they ruin your life. This is where the other alignments play in:
    Criminal (yellow) - This is where things will get interesting. As a Yellow player it basically means that you HAVE PARTICIPATED in PvP recently. The consequences for DYING as a yellow player are as follows:
    5 MAX Durability loss on ALL gear you are wearing (same as green), 25% chance to DROP ONE (ONLY ONE) of the pieces of gear you are CURRENTLY WEARING. Yes, yes this may seem harsh but in the grand scheme of things I personally believe this will be a good change to the current carebear Pk system WITHOUT ruining the experience for non pvp players. You will also drop all silver you are carrying. 
    And finally we have Red players (murderer):
    Dying as a murderer results in the following consequences:
    5 MAX durability loss on ALL gear you are wearing. 
    50% chance to drop ALL gear you are wearing. Now slow your roll and don't get upset just yet. This isn't a 50% roll and then you drop everything. Its a 50% roll on everything you are wearing. That means a seperate roll for each gear, each accessory and each weapon you are wearing. 
    Now what does this system offer and fix in relation to the current system? This implements a system of HIGH RISK - HIGH REWARD PvP AND AND AND AND... it makes it so if you don't want to PvP.. you won't be punished for it. How so?
    Lets replay the scenarios from above:
    Player A (green) attacks Player B (green). Player A now turns Yellow. Now Player B has the following options: 
    Option A: Fight back. If Player B decides to fight back then both players now become yellow. Now this fight has engaged meaning both players are aware of the consequences of death. This engages a high risk - high reward fight where either player has a chance to loose gear and gain gear also.
    Option B: Run away. If Player B simply does not want to loose their wallet money and durability he/she can just run away. Simple. 
    Option C: Let him kill you. What this does is turn the player that killed you into a murderer so you can go back and kill him for a high chance at his gear or even call your guildies to come kill him etc etc.
    Now what this system also does is make it so there is consequence to dying to a player even if you are green HOWEVER it gives them a MUCH greater consequence.
    I believe this system needs some changes and fixes HOWEVER if executed correctly it can satisfy both sides of the OwPVP argument and MAYBE make everyone happy.
    If you are planning on commenting on this PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE leave suggestions as to how we can improve upon this idea and bring it to DAUM's attention. DO NOT leave dumb things like this: "OMG BAD SYSTEM KYS KID" but maybe some constructive criticism as to how this system can be improved and WHY its good or bad.
  7. Several times a player has harassed, mob stole, and else wise interrupted our guild or me. When we go to declare war so we're not losing karma protecting our rotation or grind we get "This guild is not ready for war." Now we're a small guild not some xlarge guild looking to pick on people we just want to be able to defend ourselves without Karma loss. It's like a free ticket to bomb away!
    My suggestion is to change the system to a limited time declaration if the guild is smaller or has no node. Like a 60 min dec with a 60min cool down.
    And/Or change pvp death so it's more like node wars where the person who died has a longer and longer timer till they can respawn.
  8. Quite a lot of topics were made about karma and I have not seen a single poll, but maybe I missed it

    So short introduction... a lot of people is being mad about karma system - it punishes only winners by losing karma and not those who lose the fight -> that allows losers to take over spot (winner does not want negative karma and then being killed by PEN scrub)

    Easy way to rework it would be:
    -1% of xp like it used to be if player dies BUT only if he respawns on node
    -0% of xp when player respawns in town or uses loyalities or pearl items to respawn instantly
    of course not present in node and siege wars
    I know this would be rly painfull for spots like pirates to respawn in town... atleast it would bring some need of being polite and ask the party for spot before starting to kill mobs
    and honestly I would much rather respawn in town when someone beats my ass than to lose karma and spot on karma griefers

    and please keep reasonable arguments
  9. Hello,
    since karma is kinda worthless nowadays and there is simple zero benefit to use it... what about redesign it? I saw suggestions like "set a timer on kill x" which is good idea tho, but only vs griefer, it still does not give karma a real value.
    Pirates for example drop decent amount of silver (cash). What if all monster will drop some decent amount of silver? If u kill a player by flagging, u receive ~100k silver (maybe bit more), but if the player does not have the amount of silver to drop, u can "loot" ur karma back. 
    I know some people will probably cry about "abuse" and grinding other people for cash, but remember its just ~100k silver per kill and u only get 4-5 kills before u go red. This COULD stop the people from griefing and if not, at least u get some cash  Also it makes sense to be a "bad guy" u kill someone and rob him, i mean... why would u not?
    For people who are already in minus karma, u should reduce the amount down to ~50k, so they really can't farm people for money then and if they do, they need way longer than by grinding mobs. Don't forget that minus karma guys go to prison if they die, so there is still a punishment for them. But atleast they are real bandits in the end  
    I understand thats not a perfect suggestion or something, but its at least an attempt to make karma valuable again. If there are no better suggestions for redesign, then just remove it? Or at least tell us what is it good for?  
  10. The karma system is working in 2 ways at the moment.
    (This is based of guilds that CANNOT be declared on as well as guildless players)
    1. You are already grinding sausan main spot solo, another person and or a group come to your spot. You kill them but lose -70k karma per kill. You continue grinding, but they know if they keep coming back you will eventually run out of karma and risk the chance of losing EXP from other players passing by and chance of gems/gear breaking. So you end up giving the spot up as the risk is not worth the reward.
    2. You go to a grind spot and take it from other players, then they do as stated above until you are out of karma.
    A solution to this is to allow players to still go to negative karma where they can still be attacked by all players, BUT remove the EXP loss and gear degrade chance.
    This means there is still a penalty for killing too many players and the player who is pk'ing still has to grind karma back.
    Currently the game is punishing players for grinding to gain gear that are then able to kill players but by killing players it penalizes you by downgrading your gear/gems, however if you don't pvp and just accept death the entire time to karma bomb then you are rewarded.
    EDIT: After thinking some more on this idea, I think keep the EXP loss but remove the gear/gem degrade/destruction aspect.
  11. Someone already posted this? Well one post is not enough!
    Give us a PVP channel in which killing someone doesn’t make you loose karma. Simple as that. I might be wrong but it seems like a super easy thing to implement. Maybe just let us try it for a couple of weeks and if you see it doesn’t work or is breaking something, just remove it?
    I’m sure a lot of people want this and it would ease both the frustration of players that are not happy with karma and also the frustration of players that are PKed constantly.
    Please Kakao, just try it and then decide if it stays or not... Be empirical!
  12. Bonjour tout le monde,
    J'ouvre ce topic pour voir si il y a moyen de trouver une solution sur un soucis que j'ai constaté...
    Premier point: Je suppose que le "jeu" sait a quel moment on est AFK et a quel moment on ne l'est pas non ? 
    Deuxième point: Tout le monde n'a pas la possibilité de jouer "like a tard" et bash du mob pendant des heures pour se faire des sousous. Il existe d'autre voie: la récolte (a peine rentable, sauf exploit bug pour farm les éclats durs (cf le désert et la bonne vielle pelle), l'entrainement de chevaux (rentable au bout de long mois d'élevage), l'alchimie  (long, plutôt coûteux mais rentable), la chasse (rentable si gros investissement de base pour les armes) et la pêche (rentable au bout d'un certain niveau de pêche et d'équipement aussi). Toutes ces voies permettes de se faire des sous.
    Sauf une en fait...
    La pêche.
    Y'en a ras le bol de se voir le matin mort parce que un #@§%&  de  $§>']=*/ te tue juste parce que il voit le nom de ta guilde (ou pas d'ailleurs)  et toi  tu ne lui a rien fait, tu l'as jamais vue mais tu en paye le prix vu que quand tu crèves tu perds environ 75% (si c'est pas plus en fait..) de tes poissons  (merci ça c'est vraiment sympa) et le tueur qu'est ce qu'il a ? Rien a peine 50K de karma en moins pour avoir tuer un joueur absent. 
    N'y aurait-il pas moyen de faire en sorte que si une personne X qui est en afk pêche (donc en pêche automatique) se fait tuer par un joueur Y, ce dernier perd la totalité de son karma plus une pénalité de régénération de karma ou alors il passe directement a -50 000 de karma ? 
    Je dis ça juste parce que c'est de l'anti-jeu et qu'il n'y a dans cet acte que de la carence en scrotum pour le joueur concerné.
    Certain vont dire: Ben il fallait pas pêcher sur un spot en zone de combat.
    Je réponds: Essaye de te faire des sous en pêche auto sur un spot "épuisé" je te laisse le bon plaisir de faire tes tests mon petit et de me rapporter tes résultats ;). 
    Voila, c'est pas tellement un coup de gueule vu que cela doit faire la centième fois que je me fais tuer en pêche pendant que je dors ou que je taff et que du coup ben voila quoi, c'est qu'un jeu (pas pour tous apparemment..).
    Je trouve que il y a des disparités monstrueuses dans le jeu au niveau du système du karma (notamment le karma-bombing phénomène qui détruit totalement le farming sur les spots vu que tu ne peux rien faire sauf changer de channel (et encore tu peux te retrouver avec encore un autre idiot du genre... (j'en ai refait l'expérience aujourd'hui même (cf mes logs si vous voulez vérifier, y'a au moins 8 meurtres de ma part sur le même joueur en l'espace de moins de 10min et un témoin voir 3 si j'ai les pseudos des 2 autres qui regardaient la boucherie en live ><) en moins de 30min de farm sur un spot et après je me suis fais chasser par 3 autres mec qui sont venue aider la pleureuse qui se faisait défoncer.
    Résultat ? Je suis parti en afk pêche pour la soirée. Je reviens je suis mort, tuer par un... bref  
    Voila, le jeu est cool je trouve, niveau gameplay, skill cap des classes, évolution du personnage, histoire un peu légère mais bon c'est un MMO pas un Skyrim ou FF, et voila le jeu perd presque tout son attrait par ça: les abrutis qui karma bombe sur les spots et quand tu penses les éviter en te posant sur un spot de pêche (ou même en récolte, oui oui je me suis fais tuer en train de récolter de la puta.... de viande de mouflon) et bien non, il y a un autre style de ..... qui viennent te casser les ... 
    Voila c'est a peu près tout. 
    Je demande pas l'avis des gens, juste un retour de la communauté pour savoir si on est suffisamment nombreux pour pousser une bonne grosse gueulante pour que ENFIN le problème du karma soit étudier et revue au jour, parce que la a part afk-course pour up son endurance y'a plus trop d'attrait pour ma part pour ce jeu.
  13. Post on Give us a PvP chan like in KR in PVP

    By ariga, posted

    Hi everything is on this post posted on general by mistake
  14. Post on Fix desert pvp in PVP

    By Przemoboski, posted
    In the current state of the game, killing an another player in the desert is more punishing than being killed (respawning at the closest node), in my opinion this is a flawed mechanic because the desert area was supposed to be an area that encourages pvp between players, which it clearly does not as dying in the desert with an outlaw debuff is worse than dying in mainland with a lvl 60 character who's at 0.00 xp.
    There have to be consequences for pking in the desert so that it doesn't turn into a killing fest, however pvp should be encouraged. This is why I believe that the desert pvp mechanics should be changed, first of all you have to take into consideration that the outlaw buff lasts for 30 minutes meaning that if you manage to kill someone (even on positive karma) you cannot defend yourself for the next 30 minutes until you're going to contribute to losing more karma. This pushes a player who kills a single person in the desert to further negative karma which does not encourage pvping at all, this is because going negative karma has alot more consequences than staying at postive karma and is hard to grind back, especially in the desert.
    Negative karma causes you to become freely attackable by anyone and causes you to be isolated in the desert unless you're going to risk losing gems,xp and possible enchantment levels in the mainland. This means that the game also excludes you from majority of game content such as bosses as even in the desert doing nouver will be pretty much impossible, this is because you're permanently flagged for pvp.
    Combating this in my opinion is really easy, firstly remove karma loss in the desert, this would allow players who pvp in the desert to still attend bosses and normal grinding spots as long as they do not kill anyone on mainland, in short I believe that karma should be only applied to non desert areas and should have no effect on the desert area, the desert is well, deserted so there are not enough witnesses to make you 'hated' in mainland (as a role playing excuse if anyone needs it)
    secondly make the outlaw buff appear instantly after you attack someone (this is so that you do not have to die on purpose to send someone to jail) but if the attacker does not manage to kill the target make the duration of it shorter e.g 15 minutes instead of 30 minutes for a normal kill. 
    Furthermore being flagged permanently for negative karma in the desert has to be removed, the only time where a person should be flagged for pvp is when he has killed/attacked someone in the past 30/15 minutes. This would create an equal ground for people in the desert showing that theres no negative karma/positive karma players in the desert. Also this allows frequent player killers to attempt nouver as long as they've not attacked/killed anyone in the past 15/30 minutes
    Lastly in my opinion respawning at the closest node should be removed from the desert, this would also equal out the rules between positive/negative karma players for example a player with an outlaw debuff goes to jail if killed whilst a victim of an outlaw can respawn at the nearest town if killed, this means that death in the desert has small consequences for both people because they waste a little bit of time although nothing extreme like exp loss. This also removes the "kill someone come back 1 minute later and send the dude to jail" situation that can be exploited currently, by respawning in the closest town it is still possible to take revenge on an outlaw player but it will take around 5-10 minutes before you can get back to the place/find where he is. 
    One more thing, if you get attacked in the desert whilst having an outlaw debuff your duration should be reset up to 3 minutes even if blocking. This is to combat ppl who wait out combat by continuously blocking and making themselves lose the debuff, you should not be able to lose the outlaw status whilst under attack or else it just does not make sense, if your timer is above 3 minutes no penalty is applied.
    probably an unpopular opinion but thanks.
  15. Hi like in the title i heard that Kr got a special chan(have a specific channel(like olvia chan are for new player/come back) where you can PvP anyone without karma penalty at all.
    This would be great to have it here a big part of the player base would enjoy to be able to switch to this chan time to time to have a PvP session Open World(because RBF is clearly not enough) without any risk or penalty.
    Would also allow ppl which are confident enough to go farm there without being afraid of karma griefer since there is no karma penalty at all so you can t get kick by 1 guildless/"not ready to war" guild guy griefing stealing mob doing that 2-4h even untill you leave(happened me multiple time a pirate island to have some even if he wasnt  even getting more than 100-200bandanna/h(since mob was at respawn time in my run & i was faster than him)). 
  16. 1) http://www.blackdeserttome.com/wiki/Karma - Either it is outdated or karma system is broken... here its stated "Players may also assist in killing a person who has flagged red and not be hit with any penalties either."  everytime there is guy who is trying to take over spot or whatever and flags on my partymembers I am not able to hit him if I dont flag aswell.
    2) when having negative karma and someone tries to kill you... again you have to flag if you want to hit him back (i just experienced it 10 mins ago) otherwise you dont land a single hit 

    3) point 2 results in losing even more karma which is totaly stupid imho... you want to defend yourself and lose karma instead? wtf should i do when you just dont outrun some classes?

    PS.: yes, there may be some other topics about the same problem but i will say it straight away... I'm not in mood and also too lazy to look them up 
    another thing i would like to ask... is there some topic with poll about players requesting some penalization from PVP death, if so send me its link please? like f***ing karmagriefers/karmabombers or however you want to call them - its pure example how this karma system is only to disadvantage when you are trying to defend your spot or even take it over if u have balls(u dont need any with current karma system) and gear
    soo.. i have foound some topics about similar problem http://forum.blackdesertonline.com/index.php?/topic/41050-going-negative-karma-red-is-like-your-worst-nightmare/

    cant believe its 3/4 year old and its still the same...
    im not saying i dont deserve penalties for killing players (im perfectly fine with it) but what i do deserve is some chance to defend my ass when im attacked without any other penalties
  17. Hello today again i've experienced huge anger and adrenaline drive, why? Well again a pleb who is a karma griefer showed up on my Main spot on pirates where im grinding with a full group for 4 hours and pops in kills mobs, I nicely said hey its taken and we are full otherwise i'd invite, please leave. He doesnt do that and continues, so my group starts farming him, untill we went red, once that happend the guy comes around and hits us worst part is he is conviced he is awfully strong as he can beat us and we dont kill him right. Well I've been thinking of a way to Stop this from happening, it might take a while and whole EU community and NA to contribute to actualy get rid of them.
    Here is the idea, using this thread we can write down names of known griefers with proof (whispers, deaths and such) and then all the players who have their names could, should bully them, outside of safe areas when they are spotted, be they on alt gathering or main grinding or bosses we should all do this and contribute to getting rid of the awfull system daum put on us.
    I will be making a discord for this, as Name and Shaming isnt alowed on forums.
    If everyone agree's i'd start with making discord.
     I'll be editing this thread with names of each and every griefer added and so people can actualy work against them. Please do join in on this and help us get rid of cancerous plebs.
  18. Preface
    Back in the beginnings of BDO, dying caused exp loss no matter how you died, by PvP or PvE. This created potential for griefing, where stronger players would continually kill weaker players, making them lose exp and preventing their progression. A change was made so that PvP deaths would not cause you to lose exp. This was an important and needed change, but it created a new type of griefing: Karma bombing.
    Now, karma bombing comes in 2 types:
    You are grinding in a spot and someone comes to take it. They are stronger than you, but you try to keep your spot and let them kill you enough times so that their karma goes negative. I'll call this "Defensive Karma Bombing". This is a legitimate defense tactic and not griefing.You want a spot, and either you know the person grinding it is stronger or you remove gear to make yourself easier to kill, then proceed to annoy the other player until they kill you, dropping their karma. Eventually they reach their karma limit and are forced to either go negative and face the consequences, share the spot and drastically decrease their exp/income gain, or change spots/channels. I'll call this "Offensive Karma Bombing". This is a griefing tactic arguably worse than PKing because the repercussions of someone going negative karma for defending their spot not only includes exp loss on death, but also gems and equipment enchants.From here on out, when karma bombing is mentioned, it is referring to Offensive Karma Bombing. Defensive Karma Bombing will be addresses as such when mentioned.
    The Problem
    As it stands now, Karma bombers are near invincible, but there are tactics to combating them:
    Declare war on their guild. However, this does not work on guildless or guilds not ready for war, which make up 99% of karma bombers.Get friends/guild to come and kill the karma bomber to distribute the karma loss. This is only a delay tactic, because eventually everyone will run out of karma, and the bomber will win.Get the karma bomber to low hp and CC them near mobs, hoping to get them PvE killed. This can be effective, but is very difficult to do, especially for classes with few CC skills like Ranger.None of these tactics are preferable, and many do not work because you have no choice but to flag on players that are not a member of a guild you can declare war on. The balance is too far on the karma bomber's side. The idea of this thread is to bring people's minds together to find a solution to karma bombing.
    Commonly Proposed Solutions
    Searching the suggestions, I've found a lot of similar suggestions to fixing this issue, and many of them have glaring flaws.
    Bring back old or implement a modified exp loss system - Not feasible. Lower level/weaker players will be left unprotected, and in the worst case scenario, a player could be PKed so much that they never make it from level 50 to 51, let alone the upper 50s. But they could just run, you ask? Gear is so high now that most attacks from a geared player are a 1-hit kill to weaker players.Make all guilds declarable for war again - Also not feasible. Many guilds are not interested in the PvP aspects of the game, and focus on PvE, life skills, or role play. Many are weak and need time to build their strength before warring other guilds or taking part in node wars. This also does nothing on guildless karma bombers.PvP rewards/leader-boards - Gives bragging rights for a high kill/death ratio or kill count or rewards items when killing someone, etc. This would be a fun mechanic for PvPers and PKers, but does not solve the problem of karma bombers. You will still go negative defending your spot and risk losing exp/gems/enhancements. Karma Bombers will still be invincible.Remove Open PvP or restrict PvP to GvG only - Sure there would be no karma bombing, because players can't kill the others to lose karma, but this defeats one of the major pulls of Black Desert, its open world PvP. If you don't want it, you are playing the wrong game.Harsher penalties for PvP/PK - Make the penalties greater, such as making karma loss equivalent to the positive karma of the player you killed, equipment drops upon death for negative karma, or other larger penalty. This is meant to deter players from flagging an killing another player at all. This is probably the worst idea out of all of them. This doesn't stop karma bombing by eliminating PKing, it would make karma bombers completely invincible. No one would be able to defend their right to a grind location. But murder should be punished, you say? Sure, but defending yourself or your grind spot shouldn't. And this is a game. Murder means nothing. It amazes me that people would even suggest this as a solution (and I have seen it plenty of times...). 
    My suggestions
    I will begin by stating that my general position is that those who are stronger should have the advantage over weaker players, but not to the weaker player's permanent detriment. This is why I am against ideas like exp loss or losing money/items for killed players. But, a stronger player should be able to defend their grinding location and even force weaker players out of desired ones. I am one of those weaker players, so this applies to me as well.
    A brief description of the ideas:
    The Challenge System - Force-able duel where the loser cannot attack mobs within a proximity distance to the victor.Diminishing Karma Loss - The more you kill the same player within a period of time, the less karma you lose for killing them.The Challenge System
    This idea was based off of a common way people who are above karma bombing use to fight for grind locations. They will ask the player at the location to duel for the grind spot, and the loser agrees to give up the spot. This method only works with respectable players who agree to the terms and follow through if they lose. The challenge system builds off of the dueling system already in place but is only available at select Danger and Connect nodes like Sausan Garrison, Kuit Island and Crescent Shrine, excluding World Boss nodes like Karanda's Ridge. It works similar to a duel, but with some differences:
    Guilds at war with each other cannot challenge each other unless there is a member of an uninvolved guild in the recipient's party. Any challenge in progress when a war declaration is made may continue to completion. Members of the same guild may still challenge each other for practice/fun/internal fighting.Challenges are deactivated on node war/siege channels during node war/siege times.The challenge can be initiated by approaching the player, like a duel, or by typing "/challenge <name>". The mentioned player or player's party is then challenged. If no name is known (in the case of camouflage), the name can be excluded and the nearest player/party receives the challenge.Players with negative karma cannot issue challenges.In a party, only the party leader can challenge. The recipient may decline the challenge, but the challenger may force it when declined for a 10k karma hit for everyone in the party. No more karma is lost for attacking or killing the opponent during the challenge.A 10 second timer starts, and once finished, both sides become hostile (red) to the other and can attack freely.Players taking part in the challenge cannot be attacked by other players outside the challenge.If at any time no one attacks within an interval of 15 seconds (one side runs off), then the challenge is default canceled, karma refunded if applicable, and the challenge can be issued again if they return.Any player who does not attack and is not attacked by an opponent within an interval of 15 seconds is removed from the fight and cannot target or be targeted by those still in the fight, even with PvP mode activated. This prevents people from avoiding combat to prolong the fight.Any members of either party not within full exp distance of the party leader (the signal symbol in your party list must be fully green) are default removed from the fight and cannot target or be targeted by those still in the fight, even with PvP mode activated. This prevents members from running from the fight.Every participant has 1 life. Once killed, they are out of the challenge and cannot re-spawn (including revives) until one side has been wiped.Player deaths receive no penalty during the challenge, even if the death was PvE or the player had negative karma.Once a winner has been decided, everyone may choose to spawn at location(instant), node, or town. The losing side, including those who ran/were removed/were not present for the fight but still in the losing party, is penalized by their PvE damage being reduced to 0 for 10 minutes when within 50 meters of the victor party's leader (subject to change for balance). Regardless of spawn choice, no one on the losing side may issue a challenge to anyone from the victor party during the debuff period. Activating PvP is still available but they will lose karma according to PvP mechanics.Pros of The Challenge System:
    It takes 60 forced challenges to reduce a perfect karma player to 0 karma, more if the player is victorious and can kill mobs before another challenge is needed. This practically eliminates karma bombing.Long party vs party fights for grind spots are spread out, giving the victors free grinding time before the other party can challenge them or attack mobs in that area again.Even when someone loses, they can grind in another location away from the victor.Greedy players taking rotations too large for their kill speed can still have their mobs killed because the victor my be too far away when the mobs respawn.It becomes more beneficial for losers to change grinding location than continue trying to take one from the victors, especially if the victors are much stronger.Losers receive no major losses other than being unable to kill the victor's mobs.Promotes team strategy and gives another party PvP option even if not used for grinding purposes.Only available in major grinding areas so PKers cannot abuse it to prevent karma loss when killing people wherever.Defending players get forewarning and time to prep instead of the challengers attacking at the recipient's most vulnerable moment.Cons of The Challenge System:
    It eliminates defensive karma bombing, making it easier for stronger players to claim a grind spot from weaker players.Potential for players to issue challenges just to give people the PvE debuff, but forcing challenges without grinding or other activity will run out the challenger's karma. And, because the debuff is proximity based, it would be a waste of a player's time to challenge someone unless they wanted to stick around and clear the mobs in that specific area.Diminishing Karma Loss
    The strength of karma bombing comes from the bomber being killed and returning fast enough that the defending player can't recover enough karma to keep killing the bomber. Diminishing karma loss changes the karma loss mechanic to decrease karma lost for kills against the same player within a time interval. The karma policy would change as follows:
    The karma loss diminishes by 50% for each subsequent kill. Essentially, the first kill is -60k, then -30k, -15k, -7.5k, etc.The period for the diminishing karma loss is 15 minutes. Every time that same player is killed within that 15 minutes, the timer resets.If you do not kill that player again within that 15 minutes, the karma loss doubles (basically undoing the last 50% drop). The timer is then reset, and after another 15 it doubles again until either the karma loss returns to 60k (max) or the player is killed again, halving the karma loss once more.Once the timer is active, no more karma is lost for initial assault of the player within the time period.The diminishing loss works on the specific player killed only. When attacking another player, you will still receive the full karma loss, but then diminishing karma loss kicks in for that player as well.There is no limit to how many players are tracked by diminishing karma loss.500 is the minimum karma loss. Once this point is reached, karma loss will no longer diminish, but the timer will continue to be reset as long as you keep having to kill the player.Pros of Diminishing Karma Loss:
    One player will only make you lose a maximum of 120k karma before hitting the minimum 500 karma lost per kill. This means that a player can fend off 2 karma bombers with little fear of going negative. More bombers can be handled if karma loss diminishes to 500 for each of them and your grind speed is more than sufficient to make up for it.Strength in numbers. It will be easier to defend a grinding spot as a group, even if there are multiple karma bombersIt will also be easier to claim a grind spot if you have a larger party than whomever is currently grinding in the area by further spreading out the karma loss from repeated kills.It will not make PKers more powerful because there usually is little rhyme or reason to who PKers target, and PKing is usually isolated incidents, where the same player is not targeted more than once.Cons of Diminishing Karma Loss:
    Also eliminates defensive karma bombing for single players or small parties.If a player really wanted to, they could karma bomb once, stay away for 15 minutes, then karma bomb again so that each kill remains at 60k karma loss, but this would be a complete waste of time for the karma bomber. It would be better for them to change channels or find a different location that waste that time trying to make each of their deaths count for full karma loss. 
    Other Suggestions
    Raise the Karma Cap (TRNFloyd)
    Increase the positive karma cap to 1 million to match the negative karma's 1 million floor.
    Pros of Increased Karma Cap:
    Players can fend off karma bombers longer with hopes of them giving up eventually.Cons of Increased Karma Cap:
    It would only delay the negative karma. Karma bombers who are persistent would still be able to run people out of karma.It empowers PKers, enabling them to kill more people without fear of going negative.Karma Potions (TRNFloyd, with additions by me)
    Craftable or buyable karma potions that replenish karma. They would work similar to energy potions by taking some of your karma and turning into a potion of smaller value:
    You must have positive karma to make a potion.You cannot make a potion that would drop you to negative karma in the process.100k karma will make a 10k karma recovery potion.200k karma will make a 25k karma recovery potion.300k karma will make a 60k karma recovery potion.The potions would have a couple second cooldown to prevent accidental double tapping and wasting of potions when not needed.Karma Potions are family bound. It's your own karma. It makes little sense to be able to sell it or buy karma from someone else.Pros of the Karma Potions:
    Full positive karma can be converted into a potion than recovers the karma loss of killing 1 person (minus the assault loss), enabling  you to kill the karma bomber once more.Small cooldown enables use of potions as fast as the karma bombers can return, or even help with multiple karma bombers.Good players who are always at positive karma can save their good karma for a rainy day. Diehard PKers who are constantly at low or negative karma will seldom be able to make or use these potions.Those who grind often will have the ability to make more potions due to their own karma recover from killing mobs. Essentially, those who grind more, can better defend their grind spots.Gives use for karma recover potions, pet abilities, and gems for players who would usually never need them to return from negative karma.essentially eliminates the karma ceiling, but at the cost of taking a lot of karma to store up a proportionally smaller amount of karma.Cons of Karma Potions:
    Small boost to casual PKers, in that they can store positive karma as well to prevent them from going negative as fast or as often.This is still a delay tactic, as persistent karma bombers can still run you out of karma and potions given enough patience and time, but with enough of them stored up, it can be a deterrent.
  19. Post on Fix Karma please in General

    By No Pantsu, posted
    Karma system is -----ing stupid. Fix it. 
  20. I'm NOT Talking about PVP, Battlefeild  or Guild wars, only PK's
    Currently the karma system appears broken. After discussion with several PK'r they experience no negative effects even with Karma at -750,000.
    IMHO, Some things should be done.
    1) Karma < 0 : De-buff enhancements and permit  drop of players gear that initiated the PK
    2) Make Karma extremely hard to recover, eg leveling skills > 50
    3) Create a new guild type-Agents of Karma/Assassins.
    A victim of PK (as determined by game) may register a hit on the PK'r for some amount, say 1-5Mil silverThen non PK'rs can assassinate them without negative karma consequences and a reward for doing so. A successful assassination reduces the PK'rs gear durability by half each time. 
    Very annoying to have those folks trolling around in grinding areas waiting for lower level folks to exhaust themselves then attacking.
  21. I know people are going to be mad at this since you all love to one shot helpless players and call that pvp ,but I have a Karma punishment suggestion.
    I suggest that negative Karma affect drop rates; at least while your still in the negatives or really low on Karma. It's Karma isn't it? Not by much but just enough but to make pkers to think twice before pking someone for no reason. Plus it would not be permanent since you can just work your Karma back up, but for that moment while they try to grind off the negative Karma let them have reduced luck.
    Even if it was a .01% amount per 100k karma it would still lead players to wonder if it's affecting their drops. Therefore players that can one shot people that contest them will still be punished.
    I.e. level 59 grinding ogre trings ones shots a level 51 player near the ogre. The higher level player would have to wonder if that .01% chance affected their .0001 chance of getting that ring.
    Right now it's pretty easy to work off Karma and still get great drops while greifing lower level players. So how's it punishment if your grinding a spot with people that can't defend themselves or come back and kill you. This wouldnt be a problem so much if there wasn't lvl 58+ players grinding on lvl 49-54 mobs. Some players are so much higher than others they really don't care if they go red  because half the players they encounter are undergeared and don't have the accuracy to damage them. 
    I feel that unecessary drama can discourage a new player base and frustrate palyers working on their alts. Even a slight decrease in luck would encourage players to fight fair and stop pking (not pvping) helpless people. I'm all for pvp but one shotting someone while they are grinding in a spot appropriate for their level, while you clearly should of moved on ages ago is not pvp. I also feel this penalty is less significant that the current ones but more effective. In BDO we need all the luck we can get so why not give people with bad Karma bad luck so they stop grinding in lower areas where they can bully other players.
  22. Okay, first of all I would like to say; yes I do know topics have been made over pvp punishment systems, however in my opinion not to an adequate level of depth.
    I'm a level 58 Valkyrie, with a combined AP/DP of 480 meaning I can beat most people in pvp, which means holding a spot while grinding in pirates for level 59 isn't [or wouldn't have been] difficult. However with the changes of the pvp system, it has became apparent that if someone wants to upset you and disrupt your grinding session with no punishment what so ever even without sufficient gear to kill you they can. 
    As you can imagine while grinding to level 59 the newly introduced 200% 30 min experience buff is extremely useful for me, while using it this morning I encountered a player who had previously been upset with me due to previous Guild vs Guild situations. This player had a lot less AP and DP than me, however with him being a sorceress and me being a Valkyrie, he could easily out farm me using his awakened weapon.
    This player continued to follow me around whilst I had my 200% buff active and just steal mobs from me, he wasn't stealing the spot; just trying to upset me in which he succeeded. At this point I feel like i had no options, however the choices I could make are listed below. 
    Continuously kill him each time they came back - Resulting in Karma loss and eventually neg karma which could mean losing exp to other players on the island.Declare war [Which I did do] - The war took 20/30 mins to declare so my buff had already been wasted, and even then the guild had put him in guild protection.Continue to try and grind - He could easily out farm me using his awakening weapon.Change channel - Even though this seems like the best option, on a double exp weekend there is a high chance all other spots in different channels will be taken already.While all of these options somehow seem to punish me, the other player gets off fine, they wont lose exp, they wont lose items, they wont lose anything in fact other than the time they are wasting to just upset me. I feel like this problem could be easily fixed via introducing a feature that would punish people for dying, or dying to the same person over and over, I have listed some of the solutions I have came up with by myself in a short amount of time.
    Bring back 1% exp loss on death regardless of how you are killed, this would seriously make "karma bombing" almost impossible, as you would be losing progress yourself unless you were already at 0%Introduce a buff that is given on death by a player, that if killed by the same player they will lose 1% exp, make this buff last between 15 and 30 minutes allowing the person who is presumably grinding to gain back their karma.If killed by the same player 2 times in a row within 5 minutes, force them to spawn at a town. If you flag on someone and kill them, and then flag on them and kill them again with in a space of 5 minutes from the first kill, you don't lose any karma.Although I'm sure some of these suggestions may have flaws I've just came up with them in the last 5 minutes and I'm sure if more thought and effort is put into this situation a solution could be made and implemented quite easily. Currently I feel like this has ruined the way open pvp feels while fighting for a grinding spot, and makes it extremely difficult for any sort of player to have fun if there is another player willing to waste their time in trolling and upsetting others.
    Thank you for taking your time to read this, and I hope a solution is found quickly.
    EDIT 1:
    Other solutions suggested by players;
    Spawning at a node makes you lose 1% exp, but spawning in a town doesn't. - Vanille [Second page]Increasing time taken to spawn per each death unless spawning at town - regna [First Page]If killed by the same player again in a certain space of time, give a debuff stopping them from being able to be killed or kill/attack mobs - Zubi [First page]Don't allow node re-spawning after 2 or 3 deaths - Reawakened [First Page]Caladwen also brings a good point that one of the reasons this happens is there is only 2 really good grinding spots, those being sausans and pirates. Their comment can be seen on Page 2 of replies and they make a good point along with ways to fix the problem.
    I would also like to add in to all of this that I'm not actually a great fan of losing 1 exp on death as that just switches griefing around, although that is one of the solutions mentioned above I really doubt its the best thing to come up with, especially losing it on the first death. 
    I'd like to thank everyone for their support and their contribution to solving this problem.
  23. Hello

    I got few suggestion to karma system beause what we got yet its horrible.

    First if you alt+c you Flag up and turn in PvP mode.
    - If you hit a player or mount you not loose Karma.
    - If the Player hit back he turn to in PvP mode so if you kill him you not loose Karma.
    - If the Player not hit back and you kill him you loose Karma the same amount like now.
    - Litle change for Desert area only: Inrase the karma drop from mobs a bit or decrase the karma loose for PK.

    Few suggestion for our combat system yet.
    - Our block system (Ofc only on two class) yet its unskilled and not fair in many way. Sadly if you outplay a Warrior or a Valkyre and you go behind them you cant CC them if Block is up. Change there block to only work same like other character's block. Because yet if you try CC them its not even matter if they to slow to block your CC they got CC immune when the block is up. Same time increase all Block by 50% or 75%.
    - Make more class usefull on horses and do them proper skills 
    - Summon's cant be CC'd when you use a CC but they can CC you that time its again a bit strange mechanic. (OFC if to many AOE CC hit the summon ther ressist go higher to make it fair)
    - Increase a bit the evasion stat just slighty.
    - Balance out the AP/DP scale.

    Pet's need few QoL change
    - Like a Feed ALL button
    - Let we handle better our pet's skills because yet its so annoying to always turn it on the skills after im just take it  ON them.

    Ohh and Pls make it family bound our horsle flute what we buy it.

    @PM_Jouska @CM_Aethon pls send it this to QA team and dont forget to fix the visual effect but its still annoying to not see my enemies skills.
  24. Hello

    I got a easy solution for grifers.

    If you flag up and your enemy hit you its automaticaly flag him up to and you loose only the engage karma. Yes its mean if somebody try to grief you just stand middle of the mobs and turn on your pvp mode to protect your place. OFC its mean other's can steal your spot easier but its still mouch fair then this grief paradise what we got now and with each awaken wep release more jerk can join to there team.

    If your enemy not hit back you loose the same amount like now but in desert area less.

     @PM_Jouska @CM_Aethon can you guys sent this to PA? Its kinda a easier change and make evrybody life easier
  25. Hey! I want to create a guild full of players that enjoy playing as a rogue/outlaw in BDO. The purpose is for us to protect each other since we will be labelled as villains and potentially thrown into prison. By the time we set off into the desert where it is safe for outlaws to hang out all the players of the guild will need to have their awakening weapons in order to participate.  I dont care how big the guilds size is I just at least want 1 of every class. THe guild waiting for their awakening weaposn to release also gives us time to develop our gear  and life skills we will need to survive on our own or together!
    (Just PM me if anyone is actually interested, I think it'll be fun, TBH)
    My requirements are:
    1. Any level
    2. Dedicated
    3. Imagination