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POLL: Bring back XP loss from PKing?

POLL: Bring back XP loss from PKing?   411 votes

  1. 1. PvP game

    • Yes, bring it back!
      129
    • No
      282
  2. 2. Should the Karma system be removed altogether to make the system fair?

    • Yes!
      109
    • No, I want to be able to grief all day and still force them to lose karma
      246

Please sign in or register to vote in this poll.

203 posts in this topic

Posted

So for dying to a PKer you want there to be a penalty?

 

Your logic is sound. Now I go back to PKing people.

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Posted

You are the epitome of a joke. Equal gear? What the hell? Have you ever played a grind MMO like Lineage? THis isn't Call of Duty. If you want better gear then GRIND/make silver for it. Period. Don't punish those who have better gear than you. Also, you forget that this is a PvP-oriented game, not a PvE one.

Don't use the word fair then if you don't know what it means my friend. A system can't be fair if one person has an advantage over another. The fact you're ragining this hard and stooping to personal attacks is great though. :) 

People griefed back then

And voila, you just shot your argument in the foot. Thanks for agreeing with me on my points, this thread can be closed now. :) 

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Posted

DON'T LET THE QUEEN OF ENGLAND WIN!

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Posted

Let me share a little a secret

It is not coming back

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Posted (edited)

Don't use the word fair then if you don't know what it means my friend. A system can't be fair if one person has an advantage over another. The fact you're ragining this hard and stooping to personal attacks is great though. :) 

And voila, you just shot your argument in the foot. Thanks for agreeing with me on my points, this thread can be closed now. :) 

So then nothing in life is fair because there will always be people whom have advantage over others. Your argument is completely invalid. What sort of thought process is this? "Not fair because someone is better than me"? What are you, 13 years old?

Yes, people griefed back then but they were 3 big penalties for it: XP loss, use Tears or go away from the grind spot. Right now there are no penalties and someone can grief all day long.

So yea, go back to where you came from.

Edited by Drafun

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Posted

With current gear disparity and crappy balance, please no. It's not even a case of fighting for a grind spot right now. There's no fight. The player with highest luck+enhancements, kills his opponent in 1-2 hits while taking close to no dmg. Classes aren't remotely balanced for 1v1 and small scale either, as in your typical PK scenario.

I'm fine with bringing it back in a later stage of BDO tho, when classes has their awakenings and the gear gap is less massive. Also works better later game with full Valencia, since no more Sausan+Monastery bottleneck mess. Was kinda crap before when low 50's was trying to complete quests and ended up perma pk'ed loosing xp to lvl 57-58's hogging entire maps for solo farming.

But right now, no thanks.

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Posted

Remove Karmasystem. It was meant to be a punish for making someone loosing exp. Now they arent loosing exp. So no more need for the 1-sided punishment.

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Posted

Don't use the word fair then if you don't know what it means my friend. A system can't be fair if one person has an advantage over another. The fact you're ragining this hard and stooping to personal attacks is great though. :) 

And voila, you just shot your argument in the foot. Thanks for agreeing with me on my points, this thread can be closed now. :) 

Incorrect.  A system can be perceived as fair if each player is afforded the same opportunity to gain an advantage over another player.  If another player is prohibited from obtaining the same gear or isn't afforded the same opportunities as another player then the system isn't fair.  BDO PvP is fair.  What it isn't is a level playing field.  Don't mistake the two.  If you want a level playing field then you best play games from the MOBA or FPS genre. 

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Posted

XP loss on death wasn't even a real thing; nobody lost XP except poor people (IRL) and beginners thanks to tears.

Really we should be asking about the shoddy and sneaky p2w conversion; tears? Horses fully p2w? Only cash shop hammers for removing gems when even kr has them for loyalty? It's like there needed to be large community outrage for every individual p2w element or they sneak it in.

 

Complaining about no XP loss now is too little, too late.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Posted

With current gear disparity and crappy balance, please no. It's not even a case of fighting for a grind spot right now. There's no fight. The player with highest luck+enhancements, kills his opponent in 1-2 hits while taking close to no dmg. Classes aren't remotely balanced for 1v1 and small scale either, as in your typical PK scenario.

I'm fine with bringing it back in a later stage of BDO tho, when classes has their awakenings and the gear gap is less massive. Also works better later game with full Valencia, since no more Sausan+Monastery bottleneck mess. Was kinda crap before when low 50's was trying to complete quests and ended up perma pk'ed loosing xp to lvl 57-58's hogging entire maps for solo farming.

But right now, no thanks.

I see your concern. But you must remember that such is life. There will always be people who have an advantage over you, period. You can't punish them for having an advantage.

If I were you, I would go to a lower training spot or somewhere else at Sausans.

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Posted

 Hi (\ (^-^)____

Hidden Content

If anything that is a much worse system.

There is, once again, no reward for being a red player. The discussion of this topic isn't about perma-red players.

It's about having a penalty for dying in PvP/PK. Two different topics.

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Posted

 Hi (\ (^-^)____

Hidden Content

I hear that change was largely a non-factor. A smokescreen because in effect no one goes there.

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Posted

Odd that I need to provide a valid reason against it when you haven't provided a valid reason FOR it, but whateves.

And the issue with this? The karma system is there to stop players from mindlessly killing other players for no reason. PvP doesn't JUST mean killing random people but also includes RBF, GvGs, Node Wars/Sieges and duels/arena. The karma system is in place to protect those players who don't want to PvP. People who enjoy PvP and don't care about being red will still cotninue to PvP. 

A fair system would mean that the attacker/defender have the same gear and both want to PvP. What if you're a PvE player? Or a life skill player? The attacked faces the risk of going red and the defender faces the risk of dying which is also an inconvenience. The current system is fair.

Tell me, what's the difference between the system now and someone being stuck at 0% on the previous system? You say the previous system deterred griefing, but last I checked people were still griefing back then as well. Before you claim "oh but less people did it" I want to see sources and evidence to back this claim up.

Right, because people ONLY PvP for the satisfaction of someone losing something. So with the previous system no one actually PvP'd as they had no way of knowing whether the person was at 0% XP. There you go again passing off YOUR opinion as everyone else's.

One where a player...can kill another player? As in player versus player? 

No, it's not and if you don't like the current system you should probably quit the game. :) 

I'd give Plunge two likes if i could. He winz this thread

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Posted (edited)

So, apparently PK is the only way to have meaningful PVP (there's a few other options that has equivalent experience that I'm sure everyone is aware about)

PK is an option, not a must-do every freaking time you have the slightest/biggest reason to turn red.

It's more laughable when people compare to real life, as if beating/hitting/killing/murdering is not punishable within our legal system. (Hence law is there to protect the less advantage people. And face it, the law in BDO is thePKed is lootable-ish but loss no EXP or crystals, and the PKers deserve the karma points and win the fight, temporarily)

Edited by Seigedd
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Posted

Deaths are not pointless.

You can still lose crystals, and we all know how much the good ones are worth and how rare they are. Obviously, griefers might not always have crystals in their gear. This is most likely due to that reason that they might lose crystals due to griefing and getting killed.

Technically, this gives the attacker the advantage.

The chance to break crystals on someone with full positive Karma is extremely small.

You take a Karma hit for attacking them, and a big one for killing them, you do NOT have an advantage as the attacker because it's all punishment.

As you've said, those greifing are very likely to run around without crystals or at least with cheap ones which directly negate your assertion that deaths are not pointless because of crystal breakage.


 

 

Firstly... BDO is not a PvP game, it's a PvX game (players vs everything)

It's not so much that the xp loss explicitly needs to come back as much as it is the current system is strongly imbalanced to be against PK.

the ruleset being as it is makes PK all downside with no real effectiveness behind it but there is more than one way to approach the system.

Stripping Karma entirely evens the playing field for griefers but it doesn't actually address the griefing issues.

Re-inserting the xp penalty is something I agree with out of my own personal perspective because I don't abuse it or surround myself with people who do, but it doesn't address a specific kind of griefing that hurts certain kinds of players more than others.

Sending people to town on PK is likely a valid "happy medium" that most would largely agree with... but PvE players outnumber PvP players, especially on the forums so I doubt you're going to get much traction with this poll regardless, especially seeing as how many PvP'ers cut bait once it became clear that this game was going to more or less punish all forms of PvP outside of War and RBF.

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Posted

Why should I be penalized for someone deciding to force his playstlye on me without my consent?

And about the "git gud and pk back" stuff... how - if I cannot grind? It gives way too much power to gatekeepers. And besides that, what if I don't want to kill someone else?

I remember those times when people used to solve problems with social skills.

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Posted (edited)

So, apparently PK is the only way to have meaningful PVP (there's a few other options that has equivalent experience that I'm sure everyone is aware about)

PK is an option, not a must-do every freaking time you have the slightest/biggest reason to turn red.

 

World PvP was a means of conflict resolution when it comes to contested grind areas.  Mobs are a finite resource in BDO.  Some very lucrative areas are heavily contested.  When the removed XP loss they essentially destroyed a system that allowed people to compete for grind areas.  Now when you kill people they just keep coming back until you can no longer kill them.  Its only a minor inconvenience to die in world PvP now.  If the node is really close, the inconvenience becomes even smaller.  The only message I'm able to send to other players now when they encroach upon my farm spot is to demonstrate to them that I can out farm them.  The sad part about this is, is that it often takes some really ignorant/stubborn players a decent amount of time to realize they are being out farmed.  We need a way to immediately resolve farming area conflicts.   This needs to be accomplished with either some form of loss upon player death, the removal of the kharma system so you can repeatedly kill them with no penalty until they get the message, or some kind of farming area reservation system (not likely).  

Edited by Kejara

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Posted

The chance to break crystals on someone with full positive Karma is extremely small.
You take a Karma hit for attacking them, and a big one for killing them, you do NOT have an advantage as the attacker because it's all punishment.

As you've said, those greifing are very likely to run around without crystals or at least with cheap ones which directly negate your assertion that deaths are not pointless because of crystal breakage.


 

Firstly... BDO is not a PvP game, it's a PvX game (players vs everything)
It's not so much that the xp loss explicitly needs to come back as much as it is the current system is strongly imbalanced to be against PK.

theruleset being as it is makes PK all downside with no real effectiveness behind it but there is more than one way to approach the system.

Stripping Karma entirely evens the playing field for griefers but it doesn't actually address the griefing issues.

Re-inserting the xp penalty is something I agree with out of my own personal perspective because I don't abuse it or surround myself with people who do, but it doesn't address a specific kind of griefing that hurts certain kinds of players more than others.

Sending people to town on PK is likely a valid "happy medium" that most would largely agree with... but PvE players outnumber PvP players, especially on the forums so I doubt you're going to get much traction with this poll regardless, especially seeing as how many PvP'ers cut bait once it became clear that this game was going to more or less punish all forms of PvP outside of War and RBF.

I wish to point out that the crystals can break easily, even with full positive karma, don't make something up.

You take a karma because it is meant to be a punishment for attacking other players. PK is not the only way to play PVP in BDO.

In a grind situation, most of the time, PKers can outfarm the griefers but still choose to PK the griefers because they can win, then complain their karma went up high.

 

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Posted

I wish to point out that the crystals can break easily, even with full positive karma, don't make something up.

You take a karma because it is meant to be a punishment for attacking other players. PK is not the only way to play PVP in BDO.

In a grind situation, most of the time, PKers can outfarm the griefers but still choose to PK the griefers because they can win, then complain their karma went up high.

 

No, he's right.  I'm in a big PvP guild and I cannot think of a single instance were someone lost a crystal due to being killed by a player while having positive kharma.  I'm not saying the chance doesn't exist.  I'm saying that if it does, the chance is infinitesimal. 

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Posted

I wish to point out that the crystals can break easily, even with full positive karma, don't make something up.

You take a karma because it is meant to be a punishment for attacking other players. PK is not the only way to play PVP in BDO.

In a grind situation, most of the time, PKers can outfarm the griefers but still choose to PK the griefers because they can win, then complain their karma went up high.

 

I've been PK'ed about 20 times and have yet to have a crystal break on me once. In fact across my entire guild of some 70 people for weeks they insisted it's not possible because it had never happened to any of us until one day it did... and we're talking aggregate of hundreds of deaths to PK. When you have full positive Karma the chances are VERY low.

PK is not the only way to PvP in BDO, but it's the only reliable way. You can't GvG small guilds and they get a 15 min heads up... Griefers just continue to screw with you for 15 min and then leave, meanwhile you just wasted guild funds. That's also assuming said griefer is even in a guild in the first place.


and that last bit... you just said all that good shit about making things up...

Reverting the XP penalty is not the only solution I'm open to, but the current state of the game is strongly against PvP except War and RBF.

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Posted

As we all know, Daum has ruined PvP by eliminating the XP loss when dying to another player (PK). I would love for as many people to vote in my poll.

Reasons as to why XP loss on death NEEDS to come back
- Prevent endless griefing. Players are no longer afraid of death. Killing someone does nothing, they receive no penalty and can continue griefing a spot without fear of anything.
- As of right now, the system punishes only the attacker and not the person being attacked. This defeats the whole purpose of "PvP"
- Why even have an "open world PvP" system if there is absolutely no incentive to do so? Before there was a huge incentive -- XP loss on death.
- For a game that boasts about open world PvP, it sure is very restrictive.

@CM_Jouska

@CM_Praballo

@Daum: Keep in mind that casuals come and go every 2-3 months. The real players, those who want XP loss on death back, will stay with you for years. Don't listen to the casuals.

From what I heard couple months ago, you lose exp and keep gems in all the other regions, and you dont lose exp and lose gems in valencia

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Posted

Did you even read the topic or have any knowledge of the games PvP system at all?

I wish I could PK 24/7. But I can't. You can only kill/PK 5 times before you go red.

Death to a PKer needs to have a punishment. Otherwise the weaker players will lose nothing on death, and have no fear of higher/stronger players. And grief, grief a whole lot.

You can still pk 24/7

You just get bad karma. If you aren't a scrub and can stand up on your own when someone comes after you then its no worries right?

 

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Posted

I've been PK'ed about 20 times and have yet to have a crystal break on me once. In fact across my entire guild of some 70 people for weeks they insisted it's not possible because it had never happened to any of us until one day it did... and we're talking aggregate of hundreds of deaths to PK. When you have full positive Karma the chances are VERY low.

PK is not the only way to PvP in BDO, but it's the only reliable way. You can't GvG small guilds and they get a 15 min heads up... Griefers just continue to screw with you for 15 min and then leave, meanwhile you just wasted guild funds. That's also assuming said griefer is even in a guild in the first place.


and that last bit... you just said all that good shit about making things up...

Reverting the XP penalty is not the only solution I'm open to, but the current state of the game is strongly against PvP except War and RBF.

That crystal break is my bad, though personally, it wasn't the case for me.

The only reliable way to achieve what exactly? They've turned PK as an option to kill other players, and it is also comes with karma, and the victim is protected but been caused a minor inconvenience. PKers get the satisfaction of the kill, that's your reward, at least according to our current BDO.

Since you can PK the players and get the kill, in what way you can't outfarm thegriefers? Which part of it about making things up specifically?

 

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Posted

Penalty on PK has NOTHING to do with PVP. It is just merely just being salty and grieving ... this game has amazing pvp system where you can duel, arena, RBF, Node, Siege, GvG <---- these are real PVP in this game and they are stupid FUN... especially the duel and Node war features.... people who want the penalty back are ones who just enjoy the misery of other players....... We will have more fun REAL PVP activities soon such as bounty, but NO, penalties wont be back just to satisfy a couple of grieving jerks.

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