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Griefing; Fix it Daum


175 posts in this topic

Posted

I can see where Daum can look at how many times in a short amount of time this player was PKed for simply trying to play the game by a group of overpowered players trying to dominate an entire area and say. Yes let's fix griefing. Perhaps where you can only PK a player 2-3 times in a 12 hour period and then you can no longer flag on them? Or perhaps increased Karma loss doubling after each kill and let's remove the floor from -1 million and make that number -infinite where there is no floor? So each time you PK the same random your Karma loss could start getting insane like in the negative millions per kill? Yes that might fix some griefing and put some teeth into the karma system. 

This would be more along the lines of an actual action from the Devs as they have stated that they removed the exp loss because certain players were preventing others from progressing. Combine that with the reason for the karma system was ALWAYS for punishing the player for attacking randoms and my suggestions could very well come to pass.

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Posted

Exp Loss on death should not come back when 90% of the time the OWPVP in this game is getting ganked with your back turned or while fighting mobs.

This dude would have lost 49% of his level if he didn't use Elion's tears, at 56 or higher that's an enormous amount of exp.  Granted I know I wouldn't keep coming back.

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Posted (edited)

Just freaking get rid of that joke a of system altogether. No one other than the full time griefer enjoys that system. It benefits them. Only them.

Edited by BANiSH

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Posted

There needs to be a reporting function or in-game mechanics that deals with these people. Multiple reports = account suspension.

Then a whole guild could just go reporting someone and bam suspended unfairly, very exploitable, especially in a game where fueds start so easily and last a long time

 

@Thug(also LOL whining about greifing with a name like thug :p)

If one person goes and tried to KS a party of 5 that is NOT greifing, it's called competing, and if your party of 5 can't out killsteal one person then maybe that person deserves the spot more . . . .now if you moved to a new spot, or switched channels and they followed you and kept doing it then THAT is greifing

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Posted

Then a whole guild could just go reporting someone and bam suspended unfairly, very exploitable, especially in a game where fueds start so easily and last a long time

 

@Thug(also LOL whining about greifing with a name like thug :p)

If one person goes and tried to KS a party of 5 that is NOT greifing, it's called competing, and if your party of 5 can't out killsteal one person then maybe that person deserves the spot more . . . .now if you moved to a new spot, or switched channels and they followed you and kept doing it then THAT is greifing

It's not competing when the person blatantly is doing it as griefing measures. Trust me, there is a difference.

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Posted

Everquest was open world, barely any instances and people got along fine most of the time.  When people came to a zone they were looking to farm they shouted a camp check.

We don't have that in this game and most parties will instant flag on anyone near their mobs.  FYI mobs are not a precious commodity, at 56+ one mob or even one pack is so minuscule to your overall gain that it's laughable people even consider it griefing.

Most of the people that complain about griefers are the ones that feel entitled to "their mobs".  I ran into a two man at Sausages doing main rotation, and they were not clearing fast enough to claim the entire rotation.  Am I griefing for killing mobs that have respawned minutes ago?  Was it worth if for them to flag on me and die, when there are hundreds of other mobs around?

 

 

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Posted

It's not competing when the person blatantly is doing it as griefing measures. Trust me, there is a difference.

The PKed person can say the exact same thing, so it's a wash. 

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Posted (edited)

The PKed person can say the exact same thing, so it's a wash. 

Incorrect, the griefer is the one that ENGAGES with nothing other than a pure intent to grief.

If Group A was grinding a rotation, when other rotations are available, an obvious griefer comes by (Player B) only to mess up their mobs and rotation, Player B is a griefer, as their pure intent to make Group A's experience a negative one. Typically, a griefer will come back time after time (a sure sign of a griefer) to make Group A's game playing experience, a negative one.

No matter if Group A flags or not, the griefer, in this case, is griefing. PKing has NOTHING to do with griefing, in this case.

Can a PKer be a griefer? Yes. An example of a person PKing to grief (before the 1% change), would be when a player detaches from their group, runs over to another player/group only to kill them, and continues to do so every time they go back that groups grind spot.

When is it not griefing? Simple. When 2 groups are contesting to farm the same area, and the loser accepts the losses and moves on. This rarely happens, because people on the internet have no accountability for their actions, because there is no form of reporting system in place. And in the current game mechanics, there is no negative effect to dying or coming back time after time to grief.

Edited by VipeR
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Posted

Incorrect, the griefer is the one that ENGAGES with nothing other than a pure intent to grief.

If Group A was grinding a rotation, when other rotations are available, an obvious griefer comes by (Player B) only to mess up their mobs and rotation, Player B is a griefer, as their pure intent to make Group A's experience a negative one. Typically, a griefer will come back time after time (a sure sign of a griefer) to make Group A's game playing experience, a negative one.

No matter if Group A flags or not, the griefer, in this case, is griefing. PKing has NOTHING to do with griefing, in this case.

Can a PKer be a griefer? Yes. An example of a person PKing to grief (before the 1% change), would be when a player detaches from their group, runs over to another player/group only to kill them, and continues to do so every time they go back that groups grind spot.

When is it not griefing? Simple. When 2 groups are contesting to farm the same area, and the loser accepts the losses and moves on. This rarely happens, because people on the internet have no accountability for their actions, because there is no form of reporting system in place. And in the current game mechanics, there is no negative effect to dying or coming back time after time to grief.

pretty much this, it does not matter if you or your party can one shot the mobs with no wind up. if you are doing a rotation all somebody needs to do to troll you and go infront of your group and kill mobs before you get there, completely ruining your rotation. and all they need to do is choose to follow your group to other rotations doing just that and not be punished by the system, at all.

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Posted

Daum, why do you let one fat vaping pimply neckbeard, ruin 3 hours of farm time for 10 people? One guy can grief 2 full parties of sausan groups solely because there is no loss on PvP deaths. Takes me well over going -1m Karma to get this kid out. Fix it daum. 

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The problem isn't the griefer, it's you.  Switch channels and be done with it, or even better, get a group out there to combat the griefer.  You're in the wrong game if you wanna be a carebear.

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Posted

The problem isn't the griefer, it's you.  Switch channels and be done with it, or even better, get a group out there to combat the griefer.  You're in the wrong game if you wanna be a carebear.

i believe by showing a screenshot of his party killing the guy a few dozen times it shows he's not a carebear and does not want to be one. the issue is there is nothing stopping people with the pure intent on griefing people. he could have moved to a different rotation and the guy could have followed him, going to a different channel just means another person can do the exact same thing to them. players should be able to actively combat something like this. if a forced respawn on pvp death in a city is their fix, then thats the fix. and its a pretty good one at that. it makes it significantly more time consuming for people to try to do stuff like this, if the guy in this situation honestly had any intent on fighting back , he probably would have called some friends/guildies and made an actual fight out of it.

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Posted

Ran into a karma griefer yet again today. Worst part was, he was in a guild, but we couldn't dec on them thanks to daum's new rules that protect guilds from being declared on, unless they've already declared on someone else.

Yet again, another incredibly short sighted, and disappointing decision daum has made, and seems to continue making.

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Posted

I think that much of the comments and suggestions of this thread and many like it over look the general and overwhelmingly obvious intent of BDO's design for implementing strife in day to day play.

First, I should state that I don't like this type of game play when carried out to a certain extent and preferred % xp loss in the game for any type of death.

Things that need to be taken into account though when evaluating the decision to make the change at a logical level as opposed to personal preference opinion.

1) Mobs do not belong to any particular player regardless of time spent in an area or desire to camp a group of spawns.  There is literally no MMO that gives ownership of farming areas to a specific group of people for a specified amount of time in an open world setting.  It would not make any sense to do so.

2) The "courtesy factor" many of us get confused or more likely complacent in our acceptance that we own an area because inter-guild relations and player courtesy give us that sense of ownership over an area.  The guild I am in notoriously claim spots that we want on channels that we "own" and we are happy to play that way because we can, how ever we enjoy a good challenge for the most part, so we are not afraid to war over spots and or PK if needed.  We also play the game a lot and are not likely to be pushed out of an area with out a reason for leaving.  But we also are not going to send the whole guild to help one person deal with one person, unless that person is "on the radar" so to speak. 

3) % xp loss will discourage newer/ lower level players from investing more time in the game. This by itself doesn't seem like a big issue or even to make much sense, but when tied into 4) it begins to shed a new light on how it is actually a big problem and can not be ignored.

4) There is no (NO) compelling PVE content in this game.  The closest thing to interesting PVE content is probably +15 gear at the Kzarka world boss, which most of us are past.  Where the compelling nature is meant to come into effect is by herding all of the player base at given (gear and level) intervals into very confined numbers of efficient spawn locations.  This is the basic design of the game, it is the only thing that makes sense given how the game operates.  Take Valencia for example, in this portion of the map there are (Fogans x unk, Basilisks x 2-3, Cresent Shrine x 3-4, Cadry x 1, Bandits x2-3, Naga's x unk, Lizardy things ( I don't remember their names and it doesn't matter, if there isn't a guild quest there you are not going there on purpose), useless humanoid story mobs down south (same as lizards).

(Solo or Group) Fogans drop nothing and give crappy monetary return for time invested but they do give decent xp.  I don't farm these so I can't tell you how many decent spots there are, but I am sure there are a couple and not more than a few based on conversations with guildies.

(Solo Only) Basilisks drop the BIS belt that is extremely rare and there are really only 2 with a possible third decent spot to farm them for the belt, xp gains are extremely minimal.

(Solo Only) Cresent Shrine drops the BIS ring that is extremely rare and while there are possibly 4 good farming locations in there, if you don't have one of them you are fairly out of luck to get mobs to pull. The XP at 57 is doable though not good and the money is fairly crap and if you aren't getting decent luck on scrolls and rings you are really just wasting your time.

(Solo Only) Bandits like I said there are 2-3 decent spots to farm these, but outside of a guild quest or completing the quests in the area which are easy and give decent contribution there is no reason to ever go here. money is crap, xp is crap, 0 luck drops.

(Group or Solo)Nagas, group xp farming spot, only 1 decent spot that I know of and money is pretty poor.

(Who cares)Lizards, if you find yourself grinding here...leave, just leave.

(Who cares) Humanoid story mobs, honestly these guys are fun because the groups are somewhat diverse in composition, they are not in any way worth farming.  But they are easy and right in side of Valencia so if you want to go to Valencia and are looking for a quiet place that maybe you can handle farming at a slightly under geared/ leveled state then these may work for you, but Sausans/ Pirates would be better. 

(Solo or small group) Then there are Pirates and Sausans from Mediah, still arguably the best two spots in the game for money and XP even at 57-58. Each containing exactly 2 good grinding spots, both of which can be farmed completely by a solo 56+ ranger in +17/18 gear.

(Solo) Lastly we have everyone's favorite since day 1...Ogre's.  No mobs illustrate the developers intention better than Ogres.  10 mobs total, 15 minute respawn and they drop by far and a way the single best accessory in the game which is extremely rare, and extremely difficult to enchant successfully.  But if you want to be on top of the min/maxing curve you need a few of these and you need to get really lucky on those enchants.  Even if you constantly control all 10 ogre spawns for 8 hours a day it can take a week or more to see one of these bad boys drop, so good luck. Bare in mind that means these are being farmed constantly by 50-58 characters.  There is no incentive to farm these on a level appropriate character.

As a player base we are funneled into these areas to jockey for position to get the (best) only spots for constant grinding that actually matter and they are not always level appropriate. This is coupled with the open world sieges comprise the player tension in the world that are meant to drive you toward/ and help you set your goals.  It is why arenas are merely practicing tools to use and not something that is ranked.  You may not like these things, but it doesn't change what they are or that they are the driving forces in this game.  If the developers had any intention of avoiding this they could have simply made all luck drops capable of being dropped by any mobs or spread mobs types out or done any number of things to confront this style of interaction.  But it is far easier to allow players to cause themselves strife from a coding stand point that to have to develop pve content that matters in each range of the leveling/ gearing curve.

So when you are farming in an area and someone comes in to "kill your mobs" it is a fundamental misunderstanding of how the world of this game works that leads you to get upset.  Ultimately that leads some players to go far far into the negative, which if you are +18 you are a fool for doing because you will lose that shit quick at -1 mil karma.

This is the element of the game meant to give you strife like it or not, you are meant to fight over the mobs, that doesn't strictly mean by killing the other player if possible.  It means out farming them, killing them, flagging and ccing them and letting mobs kill them over and over again until they get the hint, or any other means needed to compete for the spot that both of you want until one of you is willing to relent.  That is how this game has been designed and coming to that realization will probably save many of you the aneurysms that some seem to be developing over these practices.  With that said, there is nothing wrong with an invested player (which we all are) coming to the forums and expressing an opinion, but if you actually want to see anything accomplished understanding the root cause of the issue will help make suggestions that are likely to be taken seriously as opposed to being seen as a rant or moan or complaint.

5) As a final level of strife (just for a more complete understanding of the other bane of most players) I present to you RNG, the idea that after all the players and mobs you have killed to get those two Ogre Rings and you put in all the money and effort to get that 30 fail stack and now you are ready, you do the hokey pokey and turn yourself around in your favorite spot in the town that is luckiest for you and you salute a magpie or what ever and click that magical enhancement button and.....poof!!!  Time to do it all over again, but hey at least you have a 31 stack now.

RNG just makes all of the previously mentioned systems that much more of a struggle.  RNG when it isn't going your way can be infuriating to the tune of billions of silver invested with no reward as an outcome.  I personally think that the RNG system needs to be reworked for accessories with more realistic fail safes in play for players desiring to enhance gear.  At present no one can afford to enhance good accessories past a low threshold and players that do not play 40 hours per week or more really have no reasonable mechanism to do so and this is about to be even more exacerbated by the actual introduction of sieges.  Where some players are going to have sums of money for being in guilds that hold castles that would require weeks of game play for those not in these guilds to accumulate.

 

Those are some things I find most people investing time in this game completely over look or never bother to think about entirely when expressing opinions about how the game does, or should, or shouldn't operate.

 

Thanks for your time,

 

Grumps

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Posted (edited)

3) % xp loss will discourage newer/ lower level players from investing more time in the game. This by itself doesn't seem like a big issue or even to make much sense, but when tied into 4) it begins to shed a new light on how it is actually a big problem and can not be ignored.

They are a bunch of whiners. Compare the time to get "soft-capped" in this game to any other and you will find that this game only takes FARRRRRR less time to reach this cap than most other games. Take Aion for example, it took MONTHS for most people to get to lvl50 (cap) and well over a month for people to reach lvl45.

In BDO, it takes a mere week to reach this soft cap. Some people it only takes about 10 hours to reach lvl55. 

So, 1% of one level is absolutely NOTHING in this game <lvl55. 

Now, is it a problem for when you have a straight 1% after lvl55? Hell yes. It translates to hours of grind time for one death. when a person is lvl58+. 
 

My suggestion, is change the system to a sliding scale of XP loss.

It doesn't need to be HOURS of time lost for one death. 1-30 minutes is more reasonable (1 minute for lower levels, 30 minutes for higher), and base the % XP loss off of this approximation. 

 

So, for those WHINERS that think 1% XP loss at lvl 50 is the end of the world.

You lost 2 minutes of play time.

Wake up and quit being a baby. You are literally killing the game's immersion and excitement by whining on the forums and devs trying to be nice to you by thinking that is what everyone wants.

Edited by VipeR
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Posted

I am purely PvE player and I am reading this with interest.  From my perspective, the removal of the debt was a god send, as I will not engage in PvP.  It's not because I cannot, it's because I enjoy the PvE elements of BDO.

I will therefore offer my honest opinion on how I would deal with such an issue from a PvE side however taking in to consideration those who enjoy PvP.

Why not simply have exp debt in a zone (i.e a node area) where more than x amount of players exist.  So if more than 20-30 people are in the Sausan area then the exp debt upon PvP kill is activated.  That way contested areas or areas with multiple groups farming will trigger this condition.  In areas where there are far less people, those who enjoy PvE and don't want to lose exp to some ganker can rest easy.  PvE peeps who then want to go to Sausans can simply switch shards and stay out of contested areas.  I would be totally okay with this. 

What do the PvP community think and if agreed, can we propose this idea or an idea long these idea to them.  I surely would not be that complex to have a flag which appears as an icon showing exp loss or not.

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Posted

They are a bunch of whiners. Compare the time to get "soft-capped" in this game to any other and you will find that this game only takes FARRRRRR less time to reach this cap than most other games. Take Aion for example, it took MONTHS for most people to get to lvl50 (cap) and well over a month for people to reach lvl45.

In BDO, it takes a mere week to reach this soft cap. Some people it only takes about 10 hours to reach lvl55. 

So, 1% of one level is absolutely NOTHING in this game <lvl55. 

Now, is it a problem for when you have a straight 1% after lvl55? Hell yes. It translates to hours of grind time for one death. when a person is lvl58+. 

So to start, whether you find lower level players or new players who want to not lose xp annoying or not, you start off with a statement which will detract from anything else you say.

I take your point on the leveling time frame because I can level from 1-50 in this game on most classes in less than 6 hours.  However, no one is making players do that and if you choose to you could spend months doing the grind from 1-55.  Especially depending on how many hours a day and days per week you can play.

I have the experience personally of a player that was 55 at Mediah release, but frankly, I am not opposed to understanding the needs of players that don't play as much as I do.  Personally I think all aspects of pvp should have xp losses associated with them and I am fine with de-leveling due to loss of xp, but I think most would cringe at this and I can appreciate those points of view too.

 

also copied from VipeR...

    My suggestion, is change the system to a sliding scale of XP loss.

    It doesn't need to be HOURS of time lost for one death. 1-30 minutes is more reasonable (1 minute for lower levels, 30 minutes for higher), and base the % XP loss off of this  approximation. 

Not a terrible idea upfront I suppose, though I would rather see it be worth more time even at lower levels than at less time at all levels, if you are going to do it, it should have weight.

    So, for those WHINERS that think 1% XP loss at lvl 50 is the end of the world.

    You lost 2 minutes of play time.

    Wake up and quit being a baby. You are literally killing the game's immersion and excitement by whining on the forums and devs trying to be nice to you by thinking that is what everyone      wants.

This last bit honestly looses me completely.  I get the sense that you are irritated and not sure how to deal with that irritation.  How does the fact that another player isn't losing xp ruin your immersion in a game where you spend 80-90% of your active game time killing 7-10 replicas at a time of the same mob repeatedly for hours on end.  I have an issue with the play style personally, but I can't say that it would affect my "immersion" if this game could even boast such a feature to people that are already 57+.  

If anything honestly I would say to people that haven't figured out how to deal with "griefers" and the annoying tactics they employ, it just takes some imagination.  I play a warrior and I have out farmed entire groups of people who were "stealing camps".  Also found a way to make griefing completely useless with just one other player where 5 people failed.  There is really nothing to it.  And where it doesn't work, you go do something else, the other player did it better, that is it, end of story.  

 

There are countless problems with this game, I have been personally waning on my playtime and refuse to spend more money because it is frankly boring me and I don't see the things that bore me changing ever.  Other players not losing xp because I chose to kill them is not on the top 10 list of issues I would make.  Bare in mind as well that this issue existed before they did away with that to basically the same degree, the only difference being when you killed them for the 50th time you assumed they had spent money and lost something.

The only way this game could gain immersion while trying to be competitive would be to start over and redesign most of the systems in the game.  It has it's fun aspects, but immersive, not a part of the top end leveling/ gearing play field.

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Posted

Daum, why do you let one fat vaping pimply neckbeard, ruin 3 hours of farm time for 10 people? One guy can grief 2 full parties of sausan groups solely because there is no loss on PvP deaths. Takes me well over going -1m Karma to get this kid out. Fix it daum. 

 

May i ask if he started stealing the mobs upon his arrival there or you started killing him on sight ? Because in my experience people tend to be idiots about whose spot it is. Multiple times from same people, i got pked on sight. I come to do quests from sarma. People just flag and kill you even before they ask you to leave( if you ask me i will allways leave since its a time loss for both sides involved) even though you are there for like a minute. If a guy wins over 5 people in party, there is something wrong with the party. He cant possibly kill more then you guys unless you are doing something wrong or he is way overgeared, in which case i dont think you would be able to kill him, unless he wanted you to kill him. If he wanted you to kill him and lose your karma because he is what he is, then again you should reconsider the whole event and admit that in that case he won and you should think before you act . Why i say this? Personally i dont care about griefing. Person wins griefing the moment you let him win (1vs5) . I've never got griefed even when i was alone and especially not when i was in party. Last but not least mobs are not yours to begin with, labeling them as yours is plain wrong. 

If there was exp loss on death many would be angered by that and many were prior to the change. If there isnt exp loss same will happen. That being said i think majority of players dont want exp loss to come back since it leads to problem that is way more time consuming then actuall mob stealing where there isnt exp loss as a penalty. 

I am fine with both, i never let some random people win in any case because i resolve my problem without involving ego in it. If he is stronger i leave, if i am stronger then i think of way where i outplay him. As i said i never ever had any problems before or after exp loss was removed. Its silly to let some "random internet guy" ruin your time playing. It may sound wrong, but it is what it is. 

I will remind you once more. 1 guy cant win vs 10 as you said. Or he can if you let him win. Please reconsider what you gain and what you lose by allowing him to do that. Dont blame it on the system since it can cater to everyone( i know this because even before and after the change people were unsatisfied with it) even there wasnt karma loss he still griefed you didnt he ? Karma loss wouldnt stop him or you from doing the same thing that happened. Mobs are not yours nor his. So think about it.

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Posted

I am purely PvE player and I am reading this with interest.  From my perspective, the removal of the debt was a god send, as I will not engage in PvP.  It's not because I cannot, it's because I enjoy the PvE elements of BDO.

I will therefore offer my honest opinion on how I would deal with such an issue from a PvE side however taking in to consideration those who enjoy PvP.

Why not simply have exp debt in a zone (i.e a node area) where more than x amount of players exist.  So if more than 20-30 people are in the Sausan area then the exp debt upon PvP kill is activated.  That way contested areas or areas with multiple groups farming will trigger this condition.  In areas where there are far less people, those who enjoy PvE and don't want to lose exp to some ganker can rest easy.  PvE peeps who then want to go to Sausans can simply switch shards and stay out of contested areas.  I would be totally okay with this. 

What do the PvP community think and if agreed, can we propose this idea or an idea long these idea to them.  I surely would not be that complex to have a flag which appears as an icon showing exp loss or not.

Firstly for contested areas, the minimum amount of players to make an area contested would be 2-3 not 20-30 since there is no reason to farm any of the luck drop areas anything other than solo and most of them only have 2-3 reasonable groupings of mob packs to pull per channel.

The only other issue I see with this is that just because you are hear for the PVE and are not interested in PVP doesn't mean you may not want some of the better gear, and all of the best grinding spots for money will be heavily contested too.  So no simply buying the gear at a reasonable rate from the AH.  Does it matter objectively, no not really, but frankly unless you are just here because the game looks pretty there are better PVE driven games out there that would offer a more fulfilling experience in the long run.  This game is pretty limited in the PVE content department and even more limited in the non-contested good PVE areas to engage in.

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Firstly for contested areas, the minimum amount of players to make an area contested would be 2-3 not 20-30 since there is no reason to farm any of the luck drop areas anything other than solo and most of them only have 2-3 reasonable groupings of mob packs to pull per channel.

The only other issue I see with this is that just because you are hear for the PVE and are not interested in PVP doesn't mean you may not want some of the better gear, and all of the best grinding spots for money will be heavily contested too.  So no simply buying the gear at a reasonable rate from the AH.  Does it matter objectively, no not really, but frankly unless you are just here because the game looks pretty there are better PVE driven games out there that would offer a more fulfilling experience in the long run.  This game is pretty limited in the PVE content department and even more limited in the non-contested good PVE areas to engage in.

I did expect this kind of reply.  I had a similar reply from someone in game yesterday.  I would first ask you to name a PvE driven game that has a more fulfilling experience as this is interesting.

The PvE content of this game is extremely high.  Okay, it does not have raids, but that does not interest me anymore as my time is no longer as free as it was in the days of EQ, EQ2, AC2, SWTOR, Rift, etc.  The crafting systems and alternatives in this game are very impressive.  You also understand that "grinding" per se, is PvE, not PvP.  I actually feel that the PvP content in BDO is limited.  You have 3 hours occasionally each night to fight for a territory of which that seems to take under an hour in most cases.  You have one battlefield which seems to take forever to queue for (yeah, I do try stuff) and you have guild wars which I never seem to see anyone fighting anywhere.  That leaves griefing and ganking in PvE grind areas which seems to end up causing threads like this and unhappy people.

Surely games like CoD, Battlefield, MOBA's or some of the new Trion stuff like Atlas Reactor would offer a more fulfilling experience for PvP'rs :).

Happy with PvE, happy with BDO, happy to switch channels and happy to accommodate others.  Overall, I'm happy :)

 

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They are a bunch of whiners. Compare the time to get "soft-capped" in this game to any other and you will find that this game only takes FARRRRRR less time to reach this cap than most other games. Take Aion for example, it took MONTHS for most people to get to lvl50 (cap) and well over a month for people to reach lvl45.

In BDO, it takes a mere week to reach this soft cap. Some people it only takes about 10 hours to reach lvl55. 

So, 1% of one level is absolutely NOTHING in this game <lvl55. 

Now, is it a problem for when you have a straight 1% after lvl55? Hell yes. It translates to hours of grind time for one death. when a person is lvl58+. 
 

My suggestion, is change the system to a sliding scale of XP loss.

It doesn't need to be HOURS of time lost for one death. 1-30 minutes is more reasonable (1 minute for lower levels, 30 minutes for higher), and base the % XP loss off of this approximation. 

 

So, for those WHINERS that think 1% XP loss at lvl 50 is the end of the world.

You lost 2 minutes of play time.

Wake up and quit being a baby. You are literally killing the game's immersion and excitement by whining on the forums and devs trying to be nice to you by thinking that is what everyone wants.

I agree with you to some degree, sliding exp loss will result in even more players being unhappy(although i have no idea what majority wants, its just an oppinion) There should be more severe penalty. Some people mentioned spawning in town is best solution, but then again what if a town is close by. I really dont see better system then this one. You just need to use or brains or admit you lost whatever that is you think you lost. I tend to find best solution for me then act. I will say again i will be fine whatever since i will never let some random guy on internet ruining my play time. He wins when you get mad, but in reality noone wins anything really that important since it is a game. If you let him win, you are the one that let that happen. Not some game, not a system and not publishers its only you who tailor your experience. 

What system is best i really dont know. But i know whatever system is implemented it will divide the comunity again. Loss is a loss. Wheter its time loss or exp loss or any loss imho and this game attracted people because of open world PvP which i personaly find not that appealing since you really dont gain anything other then ego boost. I dont remember last time i flagged and pked some. I dont say its fun or not. Its just not rewarding you with anything this way or another. So maybe there lies a systems flaw, not in penalties. 

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I did expect this kind of reply.  I had a similar reply from someone in game yesterday.  I would first ask you to name a PvE driven game that has a more fulfilling experience as this is interesting.

The PvE content of this game is extremely high.  Okay, it does not have raids, but that does not interest me anymore as my time is no longer as free as it was in the days of EQ, EQ2, AC2, SWTOR, Rift, etc.  The crafting systems and alternatives in this game are very impressive.  You also understand that "grinding" per se, is PvE, not PvP.  I actually feel that the PvP content in BDO is limited.  You have 3 hours occasionally each night to fight for a territory of which that seems to take under an hour in most cases.  You have one battlefield which seems to take forever to queue for (yeah, I do try stuff) and you have guild wars which I never seem to see anyone fighting anywhere.  That leaves griefing and ganking in PvE grind areas which seems to end up causing threads like this and unhappy people.

Surely games like CoD, Battlefield, MOBA's or some of the new Trion stuff like Atlas Reactor would offer a more fulfilling experience for PvP'rs :).

Happy with PvE, happy with BDO, happy to switch channels and happy to accommodate others.  Overall, I'm happy :)

 

So some games on a purely PVE aspect would probably be Wildstar, or Tera off the top of my head.  I am not sure what the current state of Wildstar is but the PVE content when I did play it was at least more diverse and you had a reason to do a variety of things. Tera is just older now, but it had good, albeit slower combat systems that were fun and probably still are, again haven't played it in some time.  The player portion of combat in this game is far superior and I like the lack of telegraphs on the ground, but as a whole the content was of a higher caliber in Wildstar than here so far.

While I grant you, the game systems for crafting and taming in this game are nice, they will net you nowhere near the reward as just straight farming mobs in an ideal location or even a semi ideal location.

If you don't have time and or money in this game...I feel for you, personal thing. If I hadn't maxed my storage in a few cities and hadn't maxed my weight and personal inventory space I think I would hate grinding in this game even more. I tend to carry like 200 to 300 pots out to the desert and then add in some wp pots and some anise tea and water along with food and elixirs and the weight really starts to add up. So do the bag slots.

As far as the games you mentioned for pvp, you are referring to FPS and mobas in a discussion about mmorpgs, not really the same thing. Would be the same as being suggested Diablo 3 or PoE for a pve game as opposed to this.

 

 

In the end, it is all about what you are looking for in a game, it sounds like this game is at a happy point for you and that is good, for you.  Not necessarily so for many though which is what sparks these forum threads.  My issue in these threads is much like our friend VipeR up there has illustrated, many can't seem to articulate points and or suggestions with out plaguing their own posts with comments and sentiment that will only server to diminish the over all meaning.  This leads to no one taking the suggestions seriously and leaves their voices unheard. On top of that, if you are going to offer suggestions on how to fix a portion of a game, you should probably take the time to evaluate in depth what your actual issue is before soliciting fixes.  This would likely alleviate the situation most gamers find themselves in where they ask for something in a game, it gets put in then they hate it.  

Edited by MrGrumpleton
grammar edit

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Regarding Tera and Wildstar - played both in beta and live.  Both were awful in every aspect.  Max hype leading to release with poor take up and retention.  Only one I am really interested in currently is in development with release a long way off.  That one you have probably not heard of and is called "Pantheon - Rise of the Ancients".  Seems to be the only one combining traditional MMO elements with some interesting new ideas.  It is back to trinity, but that is the best system in MMO's which include massive group content.

Regarding my opinion.  It was thought out unlike most of the highly biased suggestions put forward by the PvP fraternity.  It thought about both sides of the coin rather than selfism.  I offered a simple, achievable solution to both sides of the situation.  For some unknown reason you seem to believe I am new to this genre whereas I am very confident I was on MMO's long before 99% of the BDO populous (grinded my first level 100 on a game called Meridian 59 and was a Guide on Everquest).  I also have maxed out storage, am ranked above 10 in over 4 of my professions, can hold more than my trade wagon and ride around on a self bred T7.

The problems with most suggestions being put forward is that they impact directly the innocent.  This is the reason why Daum decided to remove the exp loss in the first place.  A suggestion needs to be submitted which has a compromise for the other party.  There is nothing in the rules which states that a group of mobs "belong" to one player (or a group).  When another player (who has also paid Daum for the right to play) decides to attack said monster then there should be a penalty for anyone who kills them and currently that is how it works.  PvP does not automatically mean death penalty.  It simply means Player vs Player and that is exactly what it is when you kill someone else.

I would happily accept being sent back to town after being unfairly killed in PvP if....  The karma loss was higher and took much longer to build back up.

Yesterday I was doing a quest killed Decurions for a daily.  I was in the area alone when a player came in and KS'd my mob.  I did not worry about this too much and moved on to the next upon which the player then logged in his "main" and killed me.  Again, I took little notice and returned once again to finish my quest and this time the player decided to almost kill me hoping the mobs would finish me off (which they didn't).  After a brief discussion with said player he informed me I should quit this game because it's not PvE.  Kinda the same as you suggested previously.  After easily beating him down via conversation, I decided to move channels whereas I finished my quest.  The suggestion being brought forward by the PvP community would mean that I was punished in this instance and would have to keep running back from a town.  WHY?  Daum stated that the game's PvP was not meant to encourage ganking and that is exactly what the PvP community is proposing and therefore will be ignored.

Find a solution that works for all, or accept the game as is.

Still happy and currently doing dailies :)

Oh, try Archeage (and enjoy the hackers and botters), or WoW (and enjoy the childish conversation), or Guild Wars 2 as alternatives to PvP.  Actually, try 99% of new MMO's as they seem to have forgotten to cater for the most popular genre which is PvE.  Diablo 3 is way way too P2P.  I played it until the cash shop opened and quit.  If all PvE players quit a game, the game would undoubtably fail.  Last thing Daum wants is PvE peeps leaving (hence this exp change).

Edited by balefire
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the game is this way across every platform and country. Don't like it ? Find another game. 

They wont change 4 systems because you think your a special snowflake

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The PVE in this game is not that expansive.   The monsters look different ( for the most part) but they have as good of an AI as a monster from Runescape.  Actually, now that I think of it even Runescape had some bosses that were solo only and took massive amounts of time to prepare and even attempt.

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Regarding Tera and Wildstar - played both in beta and live.  Both were awful in every aspect.  Max hype leading to release with poor take up and retention.  Only one I am really interested in currently is in development with release a long way off.  That one you have probably not heard of and is called "Pantheon - Rise of the Ancients".  Seems to be the only one combining traditional MMO elements with some interesting new ideas.  It is back to trinity, but that is the best system in MMO's which include massive group content.

Regarding my opinion.  It was thought out unlike most of the highly biased suggestions put forward by the PvP fraternity.  It thought about both sides of the coin rather than selfism.  I offered a simple, achievable solution to both sides of the situation.  For some unknown reason you seem to believe I am new to this genre whereas I am very confident I was on MMO's long before 99% of the BDO populous (grinded my first level 100 on a game called Meridian 59 and was a Guide on Everquest).  I also have maxed out storage, am ranked above 10 in over 4 of my professions, can hold more than my trade wagon and ride around on a self bred T7.

The problems with most suggestions being put forward is that they impact directly the innocent.  This is the reason why Daum decided to remove the exp loss in the first place.  A suggestion needs to be submitted which has a compromise for the other party.  There is nothing in the rules which states that a group of mobs "belong" to one player (or a group).  When another player (who has also paid Daum for the right to play) decides to attack said monster then there should be a penalty for anyone who kills them and currently that is how it works.  PvP does not automatically mean death penalty.  It simply means Player vs Player and that is exactly what it is when you kill someone else.

I would happily accept being sent back to town after being unfairly killed in PvP if....  The karma loss was higher and took much longer to build back up.

Yesterday I was doing a quest killed Decurions for a daily.  I was in the area alone when a player came in and KS'd my mob.  I did not worry about this too much and moved on to the next upon which the player then logged in his "main" and killed me.  Again, I took little notice and returned once again to finish my quest and this time the player decided to almost kill me hoping the mobs would finish me off (which they didn't).  After a brief discussion with said player he informed me I should quit this game because it's not PvE.  Kinda the same as you suggested previously.  After easily beating him down via conversation, I decided to move channels whereas I finished my quest.  The suggestion being brought forward by the PvP community would mean that I was punished in this instance and would have to keep running back from a town.  WHY?  Daum stated that the game's PvP was not meant to encourage ganking and that is exactly what the PvP community is proposing and therefore will be ignored.

Find a solution that works for all, or accept the game as is.

Still happy and currently doing dailies :)

Oh, try Archeage (and enjoy the hackers and botters), or WoW (and enjoy the childish conversation), or Guild Wars 2 as alternatives to PvP.  Actually, try 99% of new MMO's as they seem to have forgotten to cater for the most popular genre which is PvE.  Diablo 3 is way way too P2P.  I played it until the cash shop opened and quit.  If all PvE players quit a game, the game would undoubtably fail.  Last thing Daum wants is PvE peeps leaving (hence this exp change).

I am pretty sure a miscommunication is happening here on my part, I was using you as a generalization, not referring to you specifically in my past posts unless in direct reference to a specific question posed or point that was made.  I'll have to apologize for that.  I have actually looked at Pantheon, it is a very long way off and I am not really convinced it will add anything to the genre, but who knows.  They don't even have most of their systems in place for the game as far as I know just a very rough play through with nearly no features and frankly will just wait until I can see a more finished product to decide whether or not it is going to see any funds from me.

Also, and I am not sure if I mis-wrote it or you mis-read it, but I am not of the mind set that if you aren't a predominantly pvp player this game isn't for you.  Honestly the notion that this game is only for pvp'rs is silly.   Though my tone towards you being new to the genre may have simply come from the understanding that most of the PVE only players in the game seem to be behind quite a bit in gearing and in levels, so not so much that you would be new to the game or genre, just that there are two different sets of players to be considered and I do believe in most cases I specify which group I am referring to.

I will say I didn't share your disdain for Wildstar or Tera, I thought both were fairly good iterations of Action combat mmo's and Tera at least still has a pretty decent population of active players and is constantly trying to bring new content that moves players in a forward direction.  I have enjoyed several other games in past years aswell, though I think you have definitely been playing longer than I since I didn't start into mmo's until WoW was in BC, but have played nearly every major title to be released since then.  Aion and Rift having been two of my favorites during their opening years.  

At any rate, archeage was crap from day one, and I mean I played it day one, logged out after 15 minutes and just said screw that.  Haven't played WoW for years, but it was fun for a time, just can't bring myself back to tab targeting. D3 hasn't had a cash shop for years, and is a good afternoon distraction for killing time I suppose, but it is sort of the same thing as here, grinding the same sets of mobs over and over and over for no real reason once you are at a certain point.

Since you mentioned you are purely a PVE player, I am curious to get your take on what drives you forward in the game with out the PVP components though.  I noticed you said you have a self bred T7 horse, I also have a grip of T6 and have failed numerous T7 breed attempts which is okay with me frankly, and I enjoy fishing, and hunting now that it is here.  But what else do you fill your time with and why?

As a player with an eye on sieges, that is pretty much the only thing I have been focusing on in my day to day gaming and I use the other systems to help me not get burnt out as quickly as others have.  But I must say it is annoying to me to be "wasting time" doing things that are no where near as valuable as grinding in the areas I am capable of grinding.  I also often wonder if i would be capable of enjoying the game more if I simply didn't care what was most efficient or whether or not I was doing what I "need" to be doing at any given point in time.  

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