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You Can Now Claim Pay2Win and Be Right


125 posts in this topic

Posted

There are those of us who by the definition of Pay2win (paying for a blatant leg up in a game) used to defend PA/Daum stating that the game was not Pay2Win because of the trivial advantages realized by Pearl Shop items such as Costumes giving a minuscule advantage.  

And then there were those of us who said that it was a slippery slope. Only few listened. 

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Posted

Now that ninja is out, I guess this is the new thing to cry about.

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Posted (edited)

And then there were those of us who said that it was a slippery slope. Only few listened. 

Yup, I called the snowball here:

And next up in cash shop,

pink bunny suits that gives +50% contribution points exp

 

Followed by:

white knights who say "it's just a convenience item, not pay to win" and "then just buy the item so you can get the bonus, simple" and "but it's so cute, they should add more like this".

And here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LngT-UwNbwk - very bottom of comments page > by SeasonedGamer

"It's a never-ending slippery slope. I would rather pay a monthly subscription fee and have all items offered in game. At least then I would know what i am paying for instead of (you spend $200 this month, oh look they came out with a better version of it next month, time to spend another $400 next month). I'm not falling into another 3yr time investment trap into a game that goes full P2W."

 

The fact is this game p2w will only get worse with time. Anyone who keeps denying it, don't bother debating with them. These are the same people who argue mobas, 32-64PlayerMapShooters, and games like diablo are mmorpg's.

 

You have to ask yourself, is this a game I want to invest in knowing later down the line p2w will only get worse. Personally, my answer is no, but for now, this fills my gaming gap as all mmorpg's are p2w now, and until one comes out that goes back to the sub model and offers open world competition (like lineage 2 once had), I'm pretty much going to be here for a while. However, my limit will probably be when they start adding stuff making you spend thousands to get pen gear easily. I'll probably draw the line there.

Edited by Vardahoth

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Posted

I'm willing to pay, and already paid 300+ $ so far in a single game, it worth around 2 years sub of a normal sub based game, but i didnt win anything so far, still havent successfully killed any players so far, so definitely this game is not pay to win imho, just pay to have more fun

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Posted

I'm willing to pay, and already paid 300+ $ so far in a single game, it worth around 2 years sub of a normal sub based game, but i didnt win anything so far, still havent successfully killed any players so far, so definitely this game is not pay to win imho, just pay to have more fun

Or the alternative explanation is you're just very bad at this game lol.

2 people like this

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Posted

No its not. They just added a premium feature equivalent to a subscription. Quit your fear mongering and Qqing

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Posted

Yeah i don't see this as pay2win at all, just another convenience again, ooooo -30% market tax, that really doesn't matter if you know how to make money anyway, you just save an extra 3-5 mill on items you sell unless you're selling something huge like duo/tri armor or a PRI ogre ring or something, or that person that has a TRI tree spirit belt on the market, but wow he could get that money back with FARMING.

I like all access to all dyes, now that is Black Fashion Online, that sounds awesome, but hey i don't mind grinding, seems it's still pay2convenience

Paying for some boss gear would be very convenient, right?

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Posted

Paying for some boss gear would be very convenient, right?

and how is this paying for boss gear?  Not anymore different then you buying the game originally with the ability to work to buying boss gear

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Posted

You could always claim that it was p2w and be 100% right.

You could and still can claim it's not p2w and be 100% right.

It's an opinion, opinions are neither right nor wrong.

but its cool to claim its p2w and claim others are white knighting for not sharing the same opinion. come on.

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Posted

but its cool to claim its p2w and claim others are white knighting for not sharing the same opinion. come on.

Triggering incoming

image.jpeg

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Posted

Have you checked out the desert suits? Get a desert suit and fox pets, and you will never have heat syndrome or hypothermia. No need to buy pots anymore.

I can easily have a ton of tea and water... I should have phrased it as significant combat stat giving gear.

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Posted

So the issue isn't that the item has been implemented but rather the price of it for users that don't use the cash shop?

Yes, that's bassically the issue, players that don't pay for it, will only have 1 Premium days for every 14 days without spending a single Loyalty Point, while just for paying for it you get 30 days and get to keep your loyaties.

I understand that paying costumers should get more out of it, but the difference in time is just abysmal, and forbids "Free" players from using the Loyalty Shop if they wanna get this 1 day boost.

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Posted

and how is this paying for boss gear?  Not anymore different then you buying the game originally with the ability to work to buying boss gear

Im not saying it is

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Posted

I can easily have a ton of tea and water... I should have phrased it as significant combat stat giving gear.

Where as the weight can be spent more on pots = grinding basilisks longer and not have to return. But the point was you said there was not gear in the shop that could not be obtained from in game. Obviously this is not true.

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Posted (edited)

Have you checked out the desert suits? Get a desert suit and fox pets, and you will never have heat syndrome or hypothermia. No need to buy pots anymore.

Actually you become heat syndrome or hypothermia even you have pet or desert suits... but no doubt  there should be something else for desert suit.

desert suit/ ghilli suit, or any other costume that give us extra stats just depreciate other costumes. I feel depressed when I saw those kind of things added on Cash Shop.

 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LngT-UwNbwk - very bottom of comments page > by SeasonedGamer

"It's a never-ending slippery slope. I would rather pay a monthly subscription fee and have all items offered in game. At least then I would know what i am paying for instead of (you spend $200 this month, oh look they came out with a better version of it next month, time to spend another $400 next month). I'm not falling into another 3yr time investment trap into a game that goes full P2W."

The fact is this game p2w will only get worse with time. Anyone who keeps denying it, don't bother debating with them. These are the same people who argue mobas, 32-64PlayerMapShooters, and games like diablo are mmorpg's.

I don't care for value pack, but yes they SHOULD NOT add another costumes or pets that gives you little buffs. They should satisfied by selling value pack and not from others.
All developers should swear not adding staffs like force people to buy in future. Now I can agree what "p2w claim" people thinking but than thread topic should be something like (I don't know how to make this short)

"Developers Should Not Add Another Buffs To Force Paying People In MMO."

Edited by hinagiri

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Posted

OP, did you know ninjas and game expansions don't grow on trees?

 

B2P is not a viable business model.

And that is totally right.

Only a subscribtionish based model will survive and grow.

so...feed the developers if you love their product.

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Posted

Getting millions of extra silver is just for convenience. = O

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Posted

And then there were those of us who said that it was a slippery slope. Only few listened. 

I'm sorry, you were right and we were wrong. :(

But now I've converted. 

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Posted (edited)

All the people who go "now people with jobs will catch up to nolifers". What? You know nolifers are even more motivated to get the value pack as they sell even more things on AH from grinding and life skills? Why would they not have the money to buy it? They have computers, internet, the game, chance is most of them can afford it, some might even go hungry for a few days if that's what it takes. It's the nolifers who'll benefit most from this. They are the ones with time to figure out how to manipulate market, keep updated on what's profitable on AH and what items they have in Korea so they can prepare, grinding (on average more accessory drops from mobs), refeed his workers more frequently (more materials to sell or used to craft) and other things I can't immediately think of. Would nolifers even enjoy this game if they couldn't afford all the weight, inventory etc?

It had kept getting worse, and I guess this was the final proof they will make this game completely p2w down the line. I will use my free value pack to enjoy the last month. Even though I want to keep playing, I can't support this kind of business with lying, poor communication to customers and increasingly p2w items. I'd hate to play this game knowing all the silver I'd have if I had the value pack and I'd hate to feel forced into buying it every month. Supporting a game because you enjoy playing feels nice, being forced does not. I sell a lot of things on AH all the time, both from life skills and grinding, it adds up. At least I've learned never to start playing a game with a cash shop like this, no matter how fun it looks. And I will recommend any friend who asks not to play this.

Had they made it subscription game from the start, that would be the most awesome thing ever.

 

Edited by wire

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Posted

more money= better gear, better gear= u kill everyone gg. in a game where pvp is heavly focused  (specially end game) /node/siege wars is purely now who has deeper real life pockets.

 

So and.. you cannot get this better gear without?

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Posted

Already quit the game a while ago but here's a little reminder.

Pay 2 Win is a state where you are able to buy gear etc. for real money.

BUT

Pay 2 Win is also a state, where a paying customer hast advantages over a not paying customer.

Considering that there is an item in the game that gives you advantages in PvP (Guillie Suit) or outfits that give you resistance to heat etc. which can not be optained without money this game has always been pay2win as -----.

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Posted

Lets ask a real question on this topic....

"What does it really matter?"

you going to quit? If so, bye felica.

You wont find another game that doesn't have cash shop and premium items. 

And you wont find another game that doesnt have the same BS arguments.

That being said, all these threads are dead horses being beaten repeatedly.

Move the hell on and start talking about shit that matters, like content wants and suggestions.

Enough -----ing about crap that wont change.  Start talking about things that can.

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Posted

Good that you are basing your opinion on youtube douche bags. great. same people who said ghillie is NOT P2W, but pets are.

New generation of entitled whiners who thinks they know the best.  

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Posted

Where as the weight can be spent more on pots = grinding basilisks longer and not have to return. But the point was you said there was not gear in the shop that could not be obtained from in game. Obviously this is not true.

THere's no desert debuff at the Basilisk.

If you think the desert suit + the fox are a must.... I don't even know what to say... those debuffs are so meaningless and easy to handle... and no need to bring 100Lts of drinks really...

But yeah let's claim it's totaly a miking move because of those AWESOME advantages....

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Posted (edited)

Good that you are basing your opinion on youtube douche bags. great. same people who said ghillie is NOT P2W, but pets are.

New generation of entitled whiners who thinks they know the best.  

I don't see why you are getting so upset. My opinion isn't based off the guys in that video (as I said to read my comment from 4 months ago calling out the slippery slope before it started happening). My opinion is based off my own experiences from mmorpg's with trending cash shops that go Cosmetic > Convenience > Advantages > Pay to Win. With this update, I think we have passed the convenience phase and entered the advantage phase. I think within 6 months we will enter the pay to win phase.

Personally, the first game I noticed this was Cabal. There were about 20-30 other games I tried that did the same thing. Then in 2011, my favorite game (Lineage 2) went from p2p to f2p/p2w with promises from the staff that only cosmetic items would be offered through the cash shop. I thought it was hilarious 2 weeks later they made a comic for the power shirts:

power-shirt-comic.jpg

 

I also think this "entitled" claim everyone keeps making is nothing more than a scapegoat for people who are trying to sound cool over the internet while covering up the corporate greed that is destroying the character of these games. If anyone is an entitled generation, it's baby boomers (the worst generation in history in my opinion). I never once mentioned how I think I deserve this or that. I'm just stating what I think is happening and what is going to happen from my own experiences, and that I'm okay with it, however obviously many people aren't (and I can understand where they are coming from). It took me over a decade to accept all mmorpg's (and single player games soon to follow with forced monthly fee's like the ps4) are going to be pay to win.

THere's no desert debuff at the Basilisk.

If you think the desert suit + the fox are a must.... I don't even know what to say... those debuffs are so meaningless and easy to handle... and no need to bring 100Lts of drinks really...

But yeah let's claim it's totaly a miking move because of those AWESOME advantages....

Well I could be wrong about the debuffs in the Basilisks, I just remember being in TS and my guild leader was grinding there last weekend and complaining how he forgot to being those pots with him when he got the debuffs. So it is all hearsay.

 

But again the point I was referring to was  Raxor said there is no gear in the cash shop that cannot be obtained through in game. And I simply said that is not true. I didn't say how "awesome" those advantages were, but instead gave a minor breakdown on what a few things can do for you. If you want a full breakdown...

 

I have (1main + 10alts) and +10% amnity costumes for all. This allows me to get 100ish grunil gloves from amnity shop at the price of 80k (vs 300-360k) each week:

BDO_GrunilAnmity_zps6jtyhfip.png

I have 4x teir 3 pets, 1121 weight, all storage spaces unlocked through cash shop, fishing suite, lucky underwear, and gillie suite. Advantages?

Due to the 19% exp bonus (from pets and costume), not having to return to town do to weight or inventory space issues to drop stuff off into storage, and not having to spend time to pickup anything, I have been able to make a lvl 55 from starting on a new server within 4 days.

I was able to force enchant all my gear to +15, less than 2 weeks.

I am able to activate all nodes and farm them, because I don't have to spend any contribution on storage houses.

I have passed 99% of all guild members (who have been playing since day1) on energy and contribution points.

nuff said...

Edited by Vardahoth

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