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So what were you expecting from a B2P MMO?

50 posts in this topic

Posted

I expected a system as gw2 is/was ( Not playing since the first addon )
Its was mostly fashion ( costumes, colors etc) and convenience items like umlimited mining tools .
You could even trade your ingame currency for cashshop currency and the other way around .
You also had boosts for exp and other stuff but those were negliable because u could reach your level and or crafting cap relativly fast .

The system of currency exchange wouldnt be good in bdo though because of the difference in gear progression .
Gw2 is/was capped at a certain gear level which was mostly time gated ( ascendancy set if i remember correctly ) so you couldnt just buy the best items , but you could buy some or all mats for it .
But the difference in ascendancy and the tier before it wasnt that strong like as example in bdo +15 and tet . The strongest bonus was your weapon which was around 5-6 % damage increase and a full set ( armor weapon accesoires ) around 13% .

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Posted (edited)

Because we all know that people work for free, cardboard boxes can be setup as offices, liscensing fees are non-existant, and servers run on unicorn dust, I'm completely shocked that the publisher keeps pushing cash shop items designed to make people want to pay.

I'm baffled at just how greedy this company is. It's almost like they're trying to run a business instead of a charity.

 

Oh cause the million copies sold (when the game is FREE TO PLAY in every other region) means nothing then?

Or what about the current cash shop with $30 outfits. Where Daum already admitted their price was too high and yet they've done nothing to lower the price.

Sure sounds like they're just 'giving stuff away' like a charity...

Edited by DrBoo
Updated outfit prices to $30 from $20 originally posted to properly reflect the actual price.

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Posted

So okay let me get this straight:

You support a company that LIED to your FACE about subscribtions and adding no pay 2 win and continue to defend them.

I mean sure how about your television you just bought has soo many features but you cant watch TV with it unlike the company said because its a tv no?

But hey you can buy this extension pack that lets you watch tv. Its fine right? because the people need money to live too and its totaly legit.

They didn't lie about subs. You don't need a sub to access your account nor do you need one to access all of the games content.

Also source for the *promise* of no P2W? There is no binding agreement of what the developer/publisher can/can't put in the game. In fact the EULA specifically states that they can do whatever they want to do with the game. 

At best you have a statment that says they will TRY to keep P2W elements out of the game. Which is more indicative of both the company's and your naivete.

Your example with the TV is just facepalm stupid on so many levels. Go ahead and try to sell a toaster as a TV and you can have the FTC come and explain why you can't do that.

 

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Posted

They didn't lie about subs. You don't need a sub to access your account nor do you need one to access all of the games content.

Also source for the *promise* of no P2W? There is no binding agreement of what the developer/publisher can/can't put in the game. In fact the EULA specifically states that they can do whatever they want to do with the game. 

At best you have a statment that says they will TRY to keep P2W elements out of the game. Which is more indicative of both the company's and your naivete.

Your example with the TV is just facepalm stupid on so many levels. Go ahead and try to sell a toaster as a TV and you can have the FTC come and explain why you can't do that.

 

Im not naive i called p2w since the beginning but still supported because the slight shimering in the distance was visible that they might hold what they are trying to do.

But unfortunately i was right and they introduce such a stupid item like this and trust me many will follow if this stays like it is.

 

You might defend BDO for now but later down the pipe i want to see how well the "its not p2w its convenience and you dont have to buy it" crowd is packing it and tells me how not p2w this game is just because you cant buy +15 gear out of the cash shop.

 

Where do you draw the line and call it p2w until it breaks.

You know what i dont care actually.

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Posted (edited)

Oh cause the million copies sold (when the game is FREE TO PLAY in every other region) means nothing then?

Or what about the current cash shop with $20 outfits. Where Daum already admitted their price was too high and yet they've done nothing to lower the price.

Sure sounds like they're just 'giving stuff away' like a charity...

Well in every other region their continual income comes from people gambling on item boxes, buying failstacks, and items to sell for silver. You can only buy so many costumes, slots, weight for yourself.

That 1 millon copies sold will just about cover the operating costs of a midsize company for a year or two, depending on how many of those were conq packs.

Edited by Ilst

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Posted

Well in every other region their continual income comes from people gambling on item boxes, buying failstacks, and items to sell for silver. You can only buy so many costumes, slots, weight for yourself.

That 1 millon copies sold will just about cover the operating costs of a midsize company for a year or two, depending on how many of those were conq packs.

Yeah I understand they need to make money eventually but for how long the game has been out vs how much money they've made and how many cash shop items have been implemented at the time. I'm sure they're not running out of money any time soon. Not to mention the servers are still garbage and have been since the game came out. So it seems all that money people have been paying is just being slid into company pockets.

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Posted (edited)

Im not naive i called p2w since the beginning but still supported because the slight shimering in the distance was visible that they might hold what they are trying to do.

But unfortunately i was right and they introduce such a stupid item like this and trust me many will follow if this stays like it is.

 

You might defend BDO for now but later down the pipe i want to see how well the "its not p2w its convenience and you dont have to buy it" crowd is packing it and tells me how not p2w this game is just because you cant buy +15 gear out of the cash shop.

 

Where do you draw the line and call it p2w until it breaks.

You know what i dont care actually.

I'm not defending BDO, my question was "What were people expecting?"

This isn't the first time a MMO has gone down this route. There needs to be an incentive for people to buy stuff. Purely cosmetic purchases has not worked for any MMO as far as I know.

When you do the same thing over and over and expect different results... I'm just poking fun at the expectations people had.

For me, this is still pretty tame. I might have 2nd thoughts when I see item boxes, but if I still like the game, I'll still play.

Edited by Ilst

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Posted

Yeah, but at this point, removing stats from costumes would just enrage the remaining people who bought them. Remember when they slightly changed the Ghillie Suit?

And some of the other stuff (like inventory and weight systems that are designed to push you to buy expansions from the cash store) would require significant recoding of the game, I think.

I get what you mean about Daum as a company. I am of two minds about that, personally. But I recently bought some pearls that I was going to use to get inventory expansions for my characters, and that may be better used for value packs instead at this point. After those are up, we will see...

i think you need to understand the difference between being unable to do something and being unwilling to, as i've said it is entirely in daum's power to make this games marketing far more consumer friendly, just because it'd be inconvenient on their end does not make it any less possible. and don't get me wrong that isn't me saying it doesn't matter that it's inconvenient, but shouldn't making a healthier and in all likelihood more successful game worth that inconvenience? we've seen time and time again this kind of marketing doesn't last, people don't like being shoehorned into purchases and they certainly don't like to feel as if their only value is as a wad of cash and it will drive off consumers, and i don't understand why some slight inconveniences would halt a company from preventing that. is it laziness? it is a lack of confidence in the product? are they too afraid of failure to risk being a massive success?

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Posted (edited)

Because we all know that people work for free, cardboard boxes can be setup as offices, liscensing fees are non-existant, and servers run on unicorn dust, I'm completely shocked that the publisher keeps pushing cash shop items designed to make people want to pay.

I'm baffled at just how greedy this company is. It's almost like they're trying to run a business instead of a charity.

 

Naw I expected to continue to have a buy to play game (not a subscription one), something with a Cash Shop that had cosmetic and other nonintrusive items, functioning characters, a functioning server, fairly decent support and consistent comprehensive communication from a game publisher that knew their product. In addition to that I expected regular scheduled updates, fun events and activities, a forum that was monitored and relatively desirable to read and some sort of sense of Community within the game itself.

Guess that was too much to expect. 9_9

For the record I throw money at this game, that well only started to dry up today.

Edited by Trixologist
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Posted

we expected them to survive on copies bought and the already ungodly pricing of the cash shop which is more then just a bit profiable which don't forget is still used by thousands of players every day

But we still don't have their financials. So, it's pure speculation as to whether they're being greedy arseholes or not.

What I do know, based on where I have worked before, the sales from those copies will get them by for a year ir two.

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Posted

Naw I expected to continue to have buy to play game, something with a Cash Shop that had cosmetic, nonintrusive items, a functioning server, fairly decent support and consistent comprehensive communication from a game publisher that knew their product. Guess that was too much to expect.

For the record I throw money at this game, that only started to dry up today.

This is pretty much my opinion too. I've spent a few hundred on the game already. There's no chance I'll be buying anything else. Its very likely I'll not even continue playing the game. Its clear that with how shitty the servers still that their only objective is to milk their audience for money. Until such a time as I feel Daum and PA actually caring bout the game and the community they'll not be receiving any more money.

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Posted

Black Desert should be F2P version. This is what I expect

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Posted

Naw I expected to continue to have a buy to play game (not a subscription one), something with a Cash Shop that had cosmetic, nonintrusive items, a functioning server, fairly decent support and consistent comprehensive communication from a game publisher that knew their product. Guess that was too much to expect.

For the record I throw money at this game, that only started to dry up today.

A cash shop with purely cosmetic, non intrusive items is too much to expect from a MMO, without a sub. Might be my ignorance, but I can't think of any that has lasted that way.

As for the servers, they said they're working on it. Throwing money at a problem doesn't always get it solved faster.

Patch notes have impoved in detail, but they're still inaccurate.

The one big thing they have gotten is moving critical things from client to server.

So you can say they're not there yet, but you can't say they haven't done anything either.

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Posted

i think you need to understand the difference between being unable to do something and being unwilling to, as i've said it is entirely in daum's power to make this games marketing far more consumer friendly, just because it'd be inconvenient on their end does not make it any less possible. and don't get me wrong that isn't me saying it doesn't matter that it's inconvenient, but shouldn't making a healthier and in all likelihood more successful game worth that inconvenience? we've seen time and time again this kind of marketing doesn't last, people don't like being shoehorned into purchases and they certainly don't like to feel as if their only value is as a wad of cash and it will drive off consumers, and i don't understand why some slight inconveniences would halt a company from preventing that. is it laziness? it is a lack of confidence in the product? are they too afraid of failure to risk being a massive success?

I think they are making a calculation between the amount of work involved and the return. Because a lot of people who played the game for a bit got tired and left (after having spent a fair amount of money in the cash shop). Making such a drastic change would probably anger a lot of people (I mean, look at all the Value Pack stuff completely overshadowing the release of Ninja and Kuno) and they probably fear the game would not survive the negative publicity. 

There's always a lot of talk about what the game could be if only they changed X. But at the end of the day, we have a port of a KR F2P game. I'm not sure Kakao EU has that much pull with PA in Korea to change the game to the extent necessary.

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Posted

So okay let me get this straight:

You support a company that LIED to your FACE about subscribtions and adding no pay 2 win and continue to defend them.

I mean sure how about your television you just bought has soo many features but you cant watch TV with it unlike the company said because its a tv no?

But hey you can buy this extension pack that lets you watch tv. Its fine right? because the people need money to live too and its totaly legit.

Your outrage is yours.  Stop projecting it at other people.  

People who buy tv's don't get HBO  free out of the box, they pay extra for that. This is like paying to get HBO.

I don't feel it's pay to win at all.  There are some convenient perks in that pack that some people might pay for, but nothing in there that makes me win anything.   

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Posted

well the logic of all these people crying about the optional 15 buck a month sub obviously dont understand the simple server cost to keep this game alive let alone dev costs.

you can mooch but dont go crying cause the supporters get a few minor buffs, instead you should be greatful that people are keeping this game alive.

I look at it like buying a TV it works and I can watch local content and such.

This is optional much like paying $15 a month to get HBO. If it adds value to your gaming experience, people can choose to get it or not.  I think a lot of the push back is some people don't want other people to be able to watch Game of Thrones if they can't.

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Posted

I get three months of premium for having bought a Conquerors pre-order. I am happy with this. After my 90 days of premium is up, I will glady pay 50 cents a day to keep it intact. I love BDO and i love not having to pay for expansions. The Value Packs are a good addition in my opinion. Thanks for adding them! 

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Posted

I think they are making a calculation between the amount of work involved and the return. Because a lot of people who played the game for a bit got tired and left (after having spent a fair amount of money in the cash shop). Making such a drastic change would probably anger a lot of people (I mean, look at all the Value Pack stuff completely overshadowing the release of Ninja and Kuno) and they probably fear the game would not survive the negative publicity. 

There's always a lot of talk about what the game could be if only they changed X. But at the end of the day, we have a port of a KR F2P game. I'm not sure Kakao EU has that much pull with PA in Korea to change the game to the extent necessary.

that logic doesn't really hold, you aren't going to get negative press from making your game more consumer friendly, that's just silly, at worse you'll get a little player lashback and again even then most players likely wouldn't leave over it so long as its handled proper, which would be expected if they are already going the mile to make the game better for the players. so at worse you are facing some brief unrest from the community (which is always a present issue in any mmo) in return for a healthier game with a much more likely long lifespan. 

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Posted

Because we all know that people work for free, cardboard boxes can be setup as offices, liscensing fees are non-existant, and servers run on unicorn dust, I'm completely shocked that the publisher keeps pushing cash shop items designed to make people want to pay.

I'm baffled at just how greedy this company is. It's almost like they're trying to run a business instead of a charity.

 

they need to use subscription method not trashy p2w!

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Posted (edited)

I expected gw2 cash shop. I was wrong.

Edited by Master Chef
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Posted

I expected gw2 cash shop. I was wrong.

Never played. But since you mentioned it, just curious as to whats the diff between the boosters and convenience services there vs here. 

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Posted (edited)

Never played. But since you mentioned it, just curious as to whats the diff between the boosters and convenience services there vs here. 

GW2 has an exchange where you can buy cash shop money from other players in exchange for in game money.  So basically you can buy anything in the cash shop for in game money.

Edited by Eberon

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Posted (edited)

I was expecting to pay my one fee and have access for life, and to then be milked with highly appealing moderately priced costumes, pets, and other little things like boosters. I expected costumes to run me $12-15, pets to be 5 to 9 depending on quality. 

What I got was an f2p subscription MMO with the highest general prices I've ever personally seen in a cash shop. Yes, there's a bit of a paradox there.

Edited by Xialoh

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Posted

I expected gw2 cash shop. I was wrong.

Same. 

I expected Daum to consider the long term health of the community over the short term profit margin. Their focus right now should be doing the best job they can to get the users to return to the game, equalize the class imbalances, and reduce the gear gap concerns. Instead, they decided that making money via subscription is more important than the health of the playerbase. 

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Posted

predatory tactics =/= income

you don't need p2w to be a successful market venture, that's been proven time and time again by other mmos, just because daum is doesn't know how to pull it off doesn't mean we should put up with it

 

ONLY by League. There's NO other game I know of that doesn't have a single convenience item. People here are just delusional.

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