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[Guide] 50Mil+/Day Using Value Pack and P2W Mechanism


57 posts in this topic

Posted (edited)

Hi. I am a KR player who once paid for the premium subscription. I defended against the community whining about ghillie suit, dye system and others as P2W. But Value Pack is different because it is a P2W mechanism. Anyone who claims otherwise is sadly mistaken. 

This guide will teach you how to guaranteed profit with Value Pack via market domination. The strategy is simple, sell everything at a minimum price such that you will make a profit while non-subscription players will make a loss. The key is to sell things as quickly as possible. Ideally, you want to target low margin items and dominate that market. Is it fair? No. Will it make you filthy wealthy? Yes. 

Lazy P2W Method: The easiest and most common way is via selling cash shop dyes. Buy dye, buy value pack and sell the dye. You will profit. In the future, you will be able to sell costumes, pets and premium furniture as well. Generally the Basic Dye, pets and costumes sell the quickest but has smaller profit margin per pearl. The profit margin for furniture is higher, but it usually takes longer to sell. Also make sure to renew your subscription on-time monthly or you'll kick yourself the day these items sell and your membership expired. 

Now onto the actual guide, because the lazy method will drain your wallet very quickly. 

What to Craft?

Has it ever baffled you why there exists items like Noble Wagon that literally loses money to make with taxes? The answer is that the developer has always build in this mechanism for premium players (Value Pack player) to profit immensely, therefore sustaining the F2P model that's in KR. With the introduction of this P2W mechanism in NA/EU, whales everywhere rejoice! Here is a time tested way to make tons of money with little to no competition from your non-Premium brethren.  But it does take some time to set up and I will go into how. 

The goal is simply to find items whose minimum value is slightly than the price of the raw material that goes into them. Combat Steel Barding is a common example of an item that makes minimal profit, quick turn around. Noble wagon is another example of an item that sells with larger profit margin, but cost more time to make. If you tend to be more active, make items like combat steel barding and sell at minimum price. This will drive your competition out of the market while still guaranteeing you profit and quick sales time. If you are more AFK player, then you want to focus on larger ticket items like Noble Wagon, it is a net-cash negative for normal player but still make a sizable profit for premium player. Here is an example with Noble Wagon: Note: VP = Value Pack; COGS = Cost of Goods Sold (sum of the raw material at market price)

Noble WagonProfit Gain with VP: 721,320Profit Loss w/o VP: -178,680Market Price: 3,000,000COGS for subscriber: 2278680COGS for non-Member: 3,178,680 12 Sturdy Pine Plywood160,000 8 Brass Ingot8,495 10 Soft Hide5,000 20 Black Stone Powder1,536  4 Wagon Horse15,000

Here is an example of an item that's barely profitable for non-members, but extremely profitable (with quick turnaround - 30 min) for members:

Light Hide StirrupsProfit gain with VP:
42,240
Profit Gain w/o VP: 6,840Market Price: 118,000COGS for member: 75760COGS for non-members: 111,160 2 Steel9,177 2 Fine Tough Hide21,913 5 Black Stone Powder1,536

 

Other examples of these items are Yuria, off-hands daggers and talisman, reform stones, silver embroided clothes, and horse/wagon/boat gear. I will stay away from tools, fishing boats, and certain wagons (i.e. white wagon) where the profit margin is too large. Of course, you are still welcome to crash those market if you desire. You want to make sure to sell at minimum price because you want the quickest turnaround on your good. Lastly, make sure to split up your crafting empire into different town and expand those storage. Personally, the setup I had was using Calpheon for costumes (only high level one), Glish for tools, Heidel for gear, Altinova for weapon and armor. Once you expand the storage to the 192 maximum, you will be able to continuously produce items and minimize down time for AH listing. Crafting: $ to $$ depending on how much competition you face and turnaround time

I don't want to Craft, how else can I make money?

Rest assure, the premium membership is great for cooks and alchemist as well. Similar to crafting you want to offload consumable and bloods/elixir on the market at a minimum price as well. However, this is not as profitable in NA/EU because we are still gated by energy. In KR, it is common practice for players to buy an advance alchemy/cooking tool and AFK alchemy/cook and then send all the goods onto AH at minimum price. Again, you want to make sure to sell at minimum price because you want the quickest turnaround on your good. 

Cooking: $ 

A special note for alchemist, alchemy stone is where you what will make the majority of your wealth as a high tier stone can sell for hundreds of millions. I would make 4-5 alchemy stones and sell them at once. Therefore you should be making metal solvents, wood hardener with your energy. However, these stones tend to sell slowly so make sure to put them on the AH at the beginning of your Value Pack rotation. However, in doing so I have made 1Bil/week doing this (heavily RNG), and the premium membership will make a few hundred million per alchemy stone upgrade cycle.

Alchemy: $$$$

I am a Crafter/Cook/Alchemist and I don't want to pay a monthly subscription. How do I play?

I'm sorry to tell you, shut down shop and go grind. Crafting is dead.  This is one reason why imperial crafting is consider the de-facto way for non-Premium players to make money in KR. You do have to be on every 3 hours and the quota fill up quickly around peak hours. However, there are are a few viable items, namely grunil, fishing boat and wagon (white wagon, merchant wagon). Even at the minimum price, you still get a tiny profit margin. But you will be competing with premium player and the turnaround time is long as there isn't as much demand for these wagon/competition. Do you hate the fact that you spent hours gathering and make 1/2 of the premium players? Well, reach in your wallet and pay. That's the beauty of this mechanism and what drove me to pay the membership in the first place. So honestly, just close down shop and pretend you can't craft in this game. :( You'll be happier in the long run. 

 

Here's some other nice post calculating the profit gain: 

 

 

As a life skill player, I left KR to join NA/EU with the promise of a non-P2W game and better management. I am sad and disappointed by this recent development. But don't let my sadness prevent you from becoming filthy rich. Enjoy crashing the market and becoming the wealthy mogul you've always dreamed of becoming. 

Edited by WingsOfHeaven
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Posted

the salt levels are high

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Posted (edited)

the salt levels are high

Yeah. I noticed that too now that I re-read it. I was really sad when I wrote this. Maybe I will update the guide in a few days when I'm less salty about this. 

Hopefully we wouldn't even need this guide then. One can dream...

Edited by WingsOfHeaven
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Posted

This is sad, they PROMISED to not be p2w shit like rus/kr and in slowly steps (so stupid people don't recognize) they are going to be the same. I shouldn't trust them ..

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Posted (edited)

This item not only benefits a lot those who buy it (P2W), but it is detrimental to those who do not buy it.
Its like you must be "premium" in order to use the marketplace, otherwise you will lose money, better sell your items to NPCs! GG WP

This is P2W on another level. Such a shame...

Why did I leave gw2... why fkn arenanet destroyed WvW... why!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Edited by regna
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Posted (edited)

This is so salty but actually extremely valid. The people saying this isn't p2w don't understand economics in the slightest

I have defended most of PA's decisions because I thought they were valid, but this one is pretty bad I will not deny. It's a really underhanded scheme because it takes a little bit of thinking to figure out why it's bad and we all know MMO players aren't the best at thinking 

Edited by Friendlyfireon
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Posted

Well i think An explanation will go long way form PA 

 

 

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Posted

Ya know...while I agree that the market part of the Value pack is pretty questionable it's a colossal stretch to imply $15 a month is "whale" territory.

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Posted (edited)

You got one thing wrong, noble wagons prices are not 3M for long time already, sometimes they sell for mere 2,2M and even value pack user can loose money crafting them if he buy all materials from AH... Also demand is not high enough to sell more then 20,30 wagons per day... Other then that you got rest right...

 

Also 50 mil per day is for lazy ones, you can make a lot more if you use value pack properly and have proper workers to do so...

Edited by Dorsai

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Posted (edited)

It's funny because as long as people don't accept that it IS P2W they'll continue to introduce more and more P2W items until everyone can finally say IT IS P2W for everyone.

Edited by Mikuri

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Posted

It's funny because as long as people don't accept that it IS P2W they'll continue to introduce more and more P2W items until everyone can finally say IT IS P2W for everyone.

until we will have a black desert of players... my interest was to BUY a complete game with no dramatic ingerence from shop, no gold sellers and no cheaters. Resusted for months with a not complete game already paid as finished...now we have an already b2p with a f2p model + premium and still cheaters, duping, bots. So the devs will wonder why ppl will leave? promising a really different game and doing like archeage and almost terrible games on market? that is the reason nowadays games die fast

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Posted

Value pack is greatly overvalued, because you come with the assumption that value pack crafters will be rare, so you can dominate the market. 

However - like with Ghillie suit - probably every EU/NA crafter will buy a pack so the margins will be just as small as before, just the price will be lower. 

Yes, the freeloader will be screwed and can go grinding -or sell raw materials from his workers (zero material cost) or sell trade items to trade NPCs. But what did they expect? There isn't such thing as something for nothing. Devs need to eat. The "free play" is simply a free introduction mode so you can test the game aspects before buying the power items that make you competitive in that aspect. A freeloader shall NOT be competitive in a game he does not support.

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Posted (edited)

Value pack is greatly overvalued, because you come with the assumption that value pack crafters will be rare, so you can dominate the market. 

However - like with Ghillie suit - probably every EU/NA crafter will buy a pack so the margins will be just as small as before, just the price will be lower. 

Yes, the freeloader will be screwed and can go grinding -or sell raw materials from his workers (zero material cost) or sell trade items to trade NPCs. But what did they expect? There isn't such thing as something for nothing. Devs need to eat. The "free play" is simply a free introduction mode so you can test the game aspects before buying the power items that make you competitive in that aspect. A freeloader shall NOT be competitive in a game he does not support.

I have an issue when anyone uses this sentence to justify requiring large amounts of money for anything. It's the same thing rappers and criminals say "yo dawg I'm just tryna feed my daughter blood"

 

Devs are eating very well and have been for a long, long time

Edited by Dead2Rights
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Posted

Devs need to eat.

That's a cheap way to defend p2w crap, especialy when there is enough game out there with ZERO p2w cash shop that live pretty well.

Just get your head out of thoses p2w crap from the east, and look around more correctly.

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Posted

Being able to buy more inventory space is PTW

Being able to buy carrying more weight is PTW

Tears are PTW

etc...

There are players who have spent WAY more than $15.00 a month on this game to get an advantage over you.

Game has always been PTW - so much salt and so much ignorance.

Yes the Dev's need to eat - they are a business and they want and need to make money to have a successful game.

* It is a mechanism to allow for new players to catch up - so that they don't have to spend hundreds of dollars to keep up with the whales.

* It is available to all players

* 30% tax reduction allows crafting to be much more viable.

* It is $15.00 per month to support a game that you say you love.

Lastly, if you can't afford $15.00 per month - you need to go out and get a job.

 

 

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Posted (edited)

Being able to buy more inventory space is PTW

Being able to buy carrying more weight is PTW

Tears are PTW

etc...

There are players who have spent WAY more than $15.00 a month on this game to get an advantage over you.

Game has always been PTW - so much salt and so much ignorance.

Yes the Dev's need to eat - they are a business and they want and need to make money to have a successful game.

* It is a mechanism to allow for new players to catch up - so that they don't have to spend hundreds of dollars to keep up with the whales.

* It is available to all players

* 30% tax reduction allows crafting to be much more viable.

* It is $15.00 per month to support a game that you say you love.

Lastly, if you can't afford $15.00 per month - you need to go out and get a job.

 

 

I don't disagree. I have a job and as I mentioned, I was a premium player in KR. So I paid for premium and VPN service. That's not the relevant points. 

Have you considered that 35% tax is a F2P mechanism in in the game to make crafting nonviable, forcing players to go buy premium services. The same way we need pets, weight limit and storage? It's a great game design. Every "PTW" you mentioned is a F2P mechanism. Of course, I do believe some are needed in the game to keep the development cost. But at what point is it enough? 

I like to keep crafting and life skill viable for players who do not wish to pay. It's a very interesting system and one that I have come to adore. I would be disappointed to see it be restricted to be profitable to premium users. There are no Morrolan and BladeBoques in Korea, because it's not a viable money making strategy for majority of the player. That's food for thought. 

Edited by WingsOfHeaven

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Posted

Rest in pieces, crafters who don't buy this P2W bundle.

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Posted

* It is a mechanism to allow for new players to catch up - so that they don't have to spend hundreds of dollars to keep up with the whales.

False, the higher you are in the power pyramid the more you benefit from it.

Its benefits are exponential as far as I see, new player have little benefit from it.

It's funny because as long as people don't accept that it IS P2W they'll continue to introduce more and more P2W items until everyone can finally say IT IS P2W for everyone.

AA the 2nd?

Doesn't this looks like that scenario?

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Posted (edited)

Interesting.

Can you explain why in your table the "sum of the raw material at market price" is different for sub players and non sub players ? I assume this number is the "cost" to craft the item, right ? Did you decide to use the VP bonus on the cost instead of the market price ? If so, can you show your calculation ? Ty.

I ask because I'm missing the reason why the cost of the raw mats is lower for the VP user since his mats "have more value" than the non VP users mats (in case he gather them, otherwise his mats hold the exact same value as the other guy).

Edited by WeaselPaw

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Posted

There is a one day on the loyalties shop so maybe do all your crafting ect.....let it build up in mail box and cash in once a month? Is ghillie suit not pay to win? Xp boost off outfits pay to win? I don't understand the entitlement of people who want free..... guys if you love the game and want to see it succeed then pay most of the good mmo's require a monthly subscription fee.. they are not forcing you to and they are rewarding people who do.. do you work? Do you work for free? No people 

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Posted

Interesting.

Can you explain why in your table the "sum of the raw material at market price" is different for sub players and non sub players ? I assume this number is the "cost" to craft the item, right ? Did you decide to use the VP bonus on the cost instead of the market price ? If so, can you show your calculation ? Ty.

I ask because I'm missing the reason why the cost of the raw mats is lower for the VP user since his mats "have more value" than the non VP users mats (in case he gather them, otherwise his mats hold the exact same value as the other guy).

Ah yes, of course. The difference is because of the taxes. I did do this really late at night, so my memory is a bit hasty on this. 

  • In the VP case I assume an effective tax of 15%, so the cost of goods sold is the sum of the component + market price * 0.15.
  • In the No-VP case, I assume the tax is 35% and the cost of goods is calculated as the sum of the component + market price * 0.35.

The profit is then the difference between the market price and the cost of goods sold for VP and No-VP. I hope that is clear. The cost of raw material is the same (albeit some are egregiously outdated). 

 

Now if the player gathers the material, it's not captured in my calculation. The calculation assumes current market value for the finished raw material. I don't think it's unreasonable because the player can always sell the finished raw material on the market directly (assuming it sells). But that's a really good point you brought up. I just have no way of quantifying player's time in gathering. 

 

There is a one day on the loyalties shop so maybe do all your crafting ect.....let it build up in mail box and cash in once a month? Is ghillie suit not pay to win? Xp boost off outfits pay to win? I don't understand the entitlement of people who want free..... guys if you love the game and want to see it succeed then pay most of the good mmo's require a monthly subscription fee.. they are not forcing you to and they are rewarding people who do.. do you work? Do you work for free? No people 

Oh absolutely that happens too. Actually in KR the Value Pack is often one of the daily attendance reward. So I know a number of players who tries to play it by stocking up and selling it on that day. It is a bit annoying in that you can only sell so much items per day, but it is definitely something that people do. 

Again, I am pointing out a game mechanism that can be exploited. It has nothing to do with willingness to support the game or whether people have a job or not. Please refrain from calling people "poor", "free loader", "jobless" as they are not relevant to the discussion. There are a multitude of ways for Daum to make money, some of which are better and fairer than others. That's where the discussion ought to be about. 

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Posted (edited)

I would have read this if you used wording with intelligence and education.
Instead of this, you decided to be like the rest and jump on this "P2W" bandwagon.

It's a shame really, because in a way, I don't disagree with a lot of you. But I refuse to fight for a cause that is presented without class and elegance.

It's quite upsetting.
Really makes me question education standards.

Edited by War

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Posted (edited)

Sorry I hope I didn't offend you that was not my intent.. but I did want to point out to all the people screaming PTW... I kind of see it more like pay for convenience. Which I do like ... and I was being honest about getting paid to work the people who write code graphics all get paid lights building servers etc.. but yes it can be exploited... but it does keep prices low😉 funny thing is I'm not worried about it I haven't even sub'ed up yet though I will soon. They haven't charged us for any expansion, classes, I want more content and to be really honest if me helping out allows for awakenings quicker then whoot!

Posted 59 minutes ago (edited) · 

I would have read this if you used wording with intelligence and education.
Instead of this, you decided to be like the rest and jump on this "P2W" bandwagon.

It's a shame really, because in a way, I don't disagree with a lot of you. But I refuse to fight for a cause that is presented without class and elegance.

It's quite upsetting.
Really makes me question education standards.

Edited 58 minutes ago by War
 

I'm sorry we are not up to your grammar standards. Good thing the person who invented the wheel or fire didn't have to impress you with"there" oh wait lol Grammer test or we would still be walking every were and in the dark 😉.. do you think the Wright brothers were collage grads. Umm well good thing you ain't 😉 running things.

Ps.

Their,there,they're  War it will be ok😜

Sincerely 2016 with Acronyms and short forms....

Edited by Roadraged

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Posted

Oh look, salty conspiracy theories and sarcastic remarks in a Guide thread.

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Posted

it's a colossal stretch to imply $15 a month is "whale" territory.

This^

It really doesn't matter what anyone thinks of the Value pack. The game can't evolve or sustain itself off of a box price and some small cashshop sales forever. The value pack is a normal sub price. Buy it and consider yourself subbed and competitive while not forced to keep paying monthly should you not feel like it. Easy to pick up again at any point and buy the value pack if desired.

 

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