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What do you think should happen with the Value Pack?

Value Pack poll   1,142 votes

  1. 1. What should happen with the Value Pack?

    • Remove it entirely.
      186
    • Keep it, but remove marketplace tax reduction bonus.
      538
    • Keep it as is.
      342
    • I don't care either way.
      76

Please sign in or register to vote in this poll.

121 posts in this topic

Posted

The problem with your argument is that the Value Pack is not more P2W than anything else that was in the cash shop from day 1.  I mean, even some of the dyes can be sold in game for silver! So it's always been P2W really, if you think the Value Pack is.

the question is how big the advantage is and the effects it can have on the economy

also in regards to the dyes i also complained about it early one. but as the dye values are being heavily limited it is not really a viable way to make money so it invalidates it as being p2win. This doesn't mean it can't change. In KR the dye values are much higher and we seem to be heading in that direction (but for the time being it is not p2w).

Getting 93.x% of your money back when selling gives you a massive advantage over everyone who does not have the pack who only get 65% back. In which case it's blatantly p2w.

Also, a lot of small things from the shop offer advantages, although by themselves rather small. Slowly but steadily we're heading to a point where these are a requirement though. The Value pack is a big step that crosses the grey area into p2win territory. That is the problem.

It's not really a matter of black\white ideology, it's more of a matter of how badly it will f--- the game up. Not that the economy was fantastic before the value packs but I'd say from two evils take the lesser one.

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Posted

 

NO ONE THUS FAR has responded in practice of what they think is wrong. Not on the forums at least. We, in my guild of players that aren't trash, talk about it every night since the patch. What we do and don't like, and share our tests that we've completed with and without the pack.

 

You've missed a couple posts, sir. It's understandable with the multiplication of threads and... something about CO2 according to someone else.

There are post about the math behind the market tax, there are posts about the consequences. But if the argument is for example inflation increasing the gap between packers and non-packers, you will understand that most people don't actually want to wait for it to happen in practice to come back and say "I told you so" or "Oh ok I was wrong". Sometimes there are decisions that have to be taken by listening to theorical reasoning because prior tests are unfeasable. It's not as simple as testing the damage of Dark Flame.

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Posted

the question is how big the advantage is and the effects it can have on the economy

also in regards to the dyes i also complained about it early one. but as the dye values are being heavily limited it is not really a viable way to make money so it invalidates it as being p2win. This doesn't mean it can't change. In KR the dye values are much higher and we seem to be heading in that direction (but for the time being it is not p2w).

Getting 93.x% of your money back when selling gives you a massive advantage over everyone who does not have the pack who only get 65% back. In which case it's blatantly p2w.

Also, a lot of small things from the shop offer advantages, although by themselves rather small. Slowly but steadily we're heading to a point where these are a requirement though. The Value pack is a big step that crosses the grey area into p2win territory. That is the problem.

It's not really a matter of black\white ideology, it's more of a matter of how badly it will f--- the game up. Not that the economy was fantastic before the value packs but I'd say from two evils take the lesser one.

I get what you are saying. I just want to point out that the marketplace tax thing is more like 84.5% or something according to other threads (and the explanation posted in the Value Pack announcement thread).  The way they worded the 30% is confusing though.

I pointed out in another thread that cash shop items already gave a significant advantage over time for those who invested heavily in it (ie, afk-fishing with maxed out inventory versus normal slots you can have, or grinding with maxed out weight/inventory so you don't have to run to town every 5 minutes to unload). And I'm sure most of the serious crafters/processors felt the need to get the Maid costume, for example, because of the advantage it offered.

I think we should probably have a good look at the marketplace and see what times have price ranges that are reasonable and which don't.  There are a ton of things that could be crafted that nobody sells because your end product costs significantly less than the materials used in it.  That's completely messed up IMO. But that's a problem outside of whether someone gets a bit more money back from a sale than somebody else.

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Posted

It's not as simple as testing the damage of Dark Flame.

You're right about this.
So why is it that people are already ready to terminate the change?
Can you answer that?

The math on paper is nothing. Do testing, it's what we're doing.
We've been testing this since it came out so we can respond to daum, who responds to PA, in a fashion that will hopefully continue the longevity of the game we love.

PS. this is also why I fight so hard on the forums.

I love this game. I work to play and afford what I want in this game.
So forgive me, for shitting on people who are incorrect in their claims, when throwing them at the game I love.

Thanks ;)

I get what you are saying. I just want to point out that the marketplace tax thing is more like 84.5% or something according to other threads (and the explanation posted in the Value Pack announcement thread).  The way they worded the 30% is confusing though.

I pointed out in another thread that cash shop items already gave a significant advantage over time for those who invested heavily in it (ie, afk-fishing with maxed out inventory versus normal slots you can have, or grinding with maxed out weight/inventory so you don't have to run to town every 5 minutes to unload). And I'm sure most of the serious crafters/processors felt the need to get the Maid costume, for example, because of the advantage it offered.

I think we should probably have a good look at the marketplace and see what times have price ranges that are reasonable and which don't.  There are a ton of things that could be crafted that nobody sells because your end product costs significantly less than the materials used in it.  That's completely messed up IMO. But that's a problem outside of whether someone gets a bit more money back from a sale than somebody else.

^
This is what we are looking for.

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Posted

Pretty hilarious how many wallet warriors want this game to end up exactly like archeage.

 

-----ing idiots act like if they remove the marketplace tax no one would still buy it.

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Posted

5. All those who bought a value pack on the first day should be gifted with a full set of boss armor. ;)

 

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Posted

Nothing. They'll keep putting in p2e items unyil we match Korea.

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Posted

Pretty hilarious how many wallet warriors want this game to end up exactly like archeage.

 

-----ing idiots act like if they remove the marketplace tax no one would still buy it.

Nobody cares about the tax, We just don't want whiners to get their way because they blow up the forums and QQ. There aren't many people who even work the market well enough to make this a severe impact. The main money maker in this game has always been to grind mobs, The market is just a way to passively make money while you're off doing other stuff. And if you are one of the .5% of people who have an empire built to truly capitalize on this change, then good on you.

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Posted

This vote is a sham and it means nothing. 90% of players don't even use reddit or the forums.

Pretty hilarious how many wallet warriors want this game to end up exactly like archeage.

 

-----ing idiots act like if they remove the marketplace tax no one would still buy it.

Actually you're ignorance is pretty hilarious. Most 90% of players don't use forums or reddit so they don't care about all these tears and are going to keep playing normally because they aren't a bunch of toxic whiners.

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Posted

Nobody cares about the tax, We just don't want whiners to get their way because they blow up the forums and QQ.

The fear of change. Because when people are trying to make some changes, it only gets worse. There's no good change.

This vote is a sham and it means nothing. 90% of players don't even use reddit or the forums.

It seems that you don't like the results of this poll and are out of arguments.

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Posted

They could remove the reduction to marketplace tax and instead make it a reduction to Pearl Shop. =D

 

Doing that might actual get more people to buy stuff from the pearl shop along with the subscription.

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Posted

Keep everything but the marketplace tax reduction.

No matter how anyone wants to argue it, that is a form of converting real money into silver, which constitutes P2W when you can buy BiS gear for silver.

There is plenty of value in the pack without the tax reduction, they don't need to include P2W creep. The players who want P2W in BDO should go play one of the many wallet warrior MMO titles already available on the market, like ArcheAge.

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Posted

The fear of change. Because when people are trying to make some changes, it only gets worse. There's no good change.

It seems that you don't like the results of this poll and are out of arguments.

It seems you know I'm right and are trying to invalidate my point because you don't like that I'm right. 

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Posted (edited)

I can't really speak to the affect on the market aside from (baseless) speculation, so I'll refrain from that. That aside, the one thing that does bode ill is the trend that this may create, and the negative press that it has already generated. Granted, I find the forums and players' outrage to be primarily responsible for that (you need only visit the subreddit to see what I mean...), but it still could be an issue.

I honestly doubt Daum will drive us any further into P2W. They're making too much money as it stands to risk that. This is likely just a way for them to monetize the players that have already purchased the game, not them testing the waters to introduce the same P2W content that Korea has.

I feel a bit of communication is needed to rectify this. Not just "we're working on it", but "this is why we did this, this is what we intend to do" kind of talk.

And the forums need to chill the crap out. This chicken little stuff is what drives people away, and sways potential new customers from buying the game. The changes won't kill the game, the negative press you are fueling will.

Edited by Hacksaw
I can has grammar

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Posted

It seems you know I'm right and are trying to invalidate my point because you don't like that I'm right. 

Or it might be that I feel that you are hypocrite and wouldn't have made any critic of the representativeness of the poll if the results showed the majority as agreeing with you. Just speculation.

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Posted

Or it might be that I feel that you are hypocrite and wouldn't have made any critic of the representativeness of the poll if the results showed the majority as agreeing with you. Just speculation.

Over 1 million people are playing black desert. At the time of this comment there are 319 votes in this poll. That means that only 0.0319% of the community has voted. That's less then half of a percent. I have logic and math on my side, you have emotion on yours. This poll means nothing.

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Posted

Over 1 million people are playing black desert. At the time of this comment there are 319 votes in this poll. That means that only 0.0319% of the community has voted. That's less then half of a percent. I have logic and math on my side, you have emotion on yours. This poll means nothing.

No, you fail at statistics because you let your emotion lead you, and from that emotion you try to find something to back it up. 320 votes can very well be representative of the opinion of 1 000 000 persons. If you want to dismiss it, come with a study of the concerned populations that proves it's not representative. But as we both know, it's just your feeling about it.

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Posted (edited)

Either Remove the Tax part, or Lower its price to 10$/€ and remain the same.

Either way, it should stay in game. 

Edited by Kapi Heartlilly

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Posted

The only players leaving will be the freeloaders who weren't buying anything anyway. So long, scrubs.

PS Get a job.

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Posted

It's perfect the way it is.

Those people complaining should go get a job.

Like seriously you can't afford $15.00????

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Posted

I think you should stop complaining and thank Kakao for bringing us the Merv's palette even though they said they had no plans on bringing it to EU/NA in the foreseeable future. I look glorious.

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Posted

I think the Value Pack is a very good idea, and I'm OK with it other than the marketplace tax.  Reduce it down to 10-15% and I'd even be OK with it.

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Posted

 320 votes can very well be representative of the opinion of 1 000 000 persons. If you want to dismiss it, come with a study of the concerned populations that proves it's not representative.

Well since you're the one -----ing how bout you make one that proves it is a representative.

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Posted

No, you fail at statistics because you let your emotion lead you, and from that emotion you try to find something to back it up. 320 votes can very well be representative of the opinion of 1 000 000 persons. If you want to dismiss it, come with a study of the concerned populations that proves it's not representative. But as we both know, it's just your feeling about it.

Wrong. It is a well known fact that very few people ever use game forums unless they have something to complain about. There is less than 1% of the community on the forums complaining which means that 99% of the players don't care and are fine with the package, or at least don't care enough to complain about it. You are the minority, accept it.

Less than half of a percent have voted in this poll. 99% of players don't even use reddit or the forums. This vote is a sham and it means nothing.

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Posted

Well since you're the one -----ing how bout you make one that proves it is a representative.

I don't need to do that, it's the beauty of it. I take the poll as it is, as it's still the only way to poll players or potential players currently. I'm not the one attacking it. You claim it's wrong, so you have the burden of proof.

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