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Value Pack Discussions

1,111 posts in this topic

Posted

I KNOW RIGHT People in Tera as an example can pay $200 and BOOM they have the best gear in the game these kids have no idea what the ----- pay to win is

I most certainly understand where you are coming from but at the same time there is no other reason to buy it if that option is either removed or nerfed, if this back did remove ALL of the tax then yes i would agree to change it but that is not the case i guarantee you half the people saying change it do not realize that it is not actually 30%

You are aware that just about everything exist on a bell curve ? There are always extreme examples, as well as small almost insignificant ones. That does not change that it is a form of real money for in game power.  Pay to win is Pay to win regardless of where it ends up on said curve.  :/

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Posted

I was initially against the value pack.  Here's why I changed my mind:

1)  Daum has to make money somehow.  This is a great way to do it.

2)  The 30% market cut is misleading, as it's more like 15%.  This is NOT pay to win, nor is it nearly as game breaking as people think it is.  Without this mechanic, I wouldn't buy the pack (too expensive for what you get).

3) The "30%" marketplace cut does NOT give you enough of an edge to play the market.  People complaining about undercutting just don't understand that people do that when they want their items to sell immediately.  That happens with or without the 30% buff.

People need to stop complaining and either accept the pack and pay for it, or don't pay for it and play the game.  It's not going to raise my RNG rates, won't raise my ogre ring drops, etc.

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Posted

 

1)  Daum has to make money somehow.  This is a great way to do it.

there is enough game out there without crap p2w item and mostly only cosmetic ( with 0 additionnal stat ) that live well enough.

That point is the cheapest way ( and wrong ) to justify such buisiness model.

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Posted

I find it funny you all ----- about 30 tax reduction, you're still not heavily restricted like other games *cough* archeage. Sure those who pay for it will get more silver than everyone else by the millions if they are no lives, but whose to say you can't pay for it either when it's available for everyone! I am convinced you are all just criticizing this game to watch the world burn because it pleases you, the day they add an item that helps you boost chances to RNG that you have to keep purchasing then i will light my torch and join you on the rant, but this unnecessary tantrum needs a time out.

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Posted

I find it funny you all ----- about 30 tax reduction, you're still not heavily restricted like other games *cough* archeage. Sure those who pay for it will get more silver than everyone else by the millions if they are no lives, but whose to say you can't pay for it either when it's available for everyone! I am convinced you are all just criticizing this game to watch the world burn because it pleases you, the day they add an item that helps you boost chances to RNG that you have to keep purchasing then i will light my torch and join you on the rant, but this unnecessary tantrum needs a time out.

I like to judge things on their actual outcome: If you boost RNG chances you get more succesful enhances.

If you boost the income you can buy more stuff to try your luck more often, therefore getting more succesful enhances.

I really don't get how one is worse than the other ...

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Posted

I like to judge things on their actual outcome: If you boost RNG chances you get more succesful enhances.

If you boost the income you can buy more stuff to try your luck more often, therefore getting more succesful enhances.

I really don't get how one is worse than the other ...

... Because math does not work like that.
But trust me. I'm the last person you want on this thread.

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Posted

I KNOW RIGHT People in Tera as an example can pay $200 and BOOM they have the best gear in the game these kids have no idea what the ----- pay to win is

200 bucks ain't enough in the slightest to get the best gear. Also, you need to do hard dungeons a lot and/or do loads of pvp to get the items needed to craft it.

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Posted

As always we appreciate your support, and regardless of your stance we want to hear from you.

How much feedback do you need? This thread already has 44 pages of comments and there have already been thousands of comments on the same topic in different threads.

Can we get an update on your stance on the topic? Are you still gathering information?

Thanks.

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Posted

Please do not allow the sale of Pearl shop items in the market, it will just mean that people can buy Silver for real money, as soon as that happens then the wallet warriors will dominate the game, because they can afford to buy the best of everything. It will ruin the game.

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Posted

Successful doesnt mean something is good or bad. On the contrary i belive it is "success" that breaks down the games allowing every1 to play it with as little effort as possible. For those who quit the game thinking this is P2W, i can only say its their choice to belive in something like that. So few people make such an amount of money per month to benefit from this on that scale to hurt other players. Even then they probably only craft and dont care much about PvP. So if you are afraid of those people then just meh..... man up or just stop being blind to the facts. I dont care for this value pack at all. You still have an option to sell that stuff for just playing the game. So is your problem you cant use your brains to plan in future or you dont want to? 

Just to make sure you guys got the point... this was just the beginnig... it always starts like this.... and as you can see the game is going to a pay-to-win model ... they are not even hiding it

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Posted

Personally, I don't have a single issue with the value pack. So, in the end people who grind and have items to put up on the marketplace end up with a little more silver for their trouble. But, they still have to go out and play the game and get the items to sell. It's not as big a deal as everyone is making it out to be. I personally won't buy it, but someone making a little more coin then me isn't the end of the world. People will complain just to complain no matter what any game developer does. Furthermore, if all the people spending the entire day complaining in chat and forums would spend that time actually playing the game, they probably would have made the amount of silver they are complaining about.

On a related note, I do not think allowing other pearl shop items is a good idea and I wish they wouldn't do it.

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Posted

Remember this thread? The complacency on the 30% marketplace increase in the value pack is what gave Kaka the green light to go full p2w.

Thank you, wonderful people. I hope some day the psychologists can figure all this out.

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Posted (edited)

The pack is fine as it is. Do not remove or modify the tax.

The argument revolves around P2W which could as easily be argument about W2L, as in work to lose. The portion of your player base that works for half of their waking time, plus eating shower and toilet ;) etc. have no chance otherwise.

Do not adjust the price keep it expensive so it actually works as intented, equalizer for working people instead of just a general boon to everyone, and to that end do not make the value pack more accessible by loyalty. BUt whatever you do, don't make it accessible by gold since that would just put us back to zero with people playing 10-16 hours a day would once more be untouchable.

Why should people that put in the effort not be untouchable? Because we the people that work IRL put in the effort as well and we show it by money that we worked for during the day.

The evil P2W that needs to be avoided is having the best items only available by cash. This is not even remotely it. This is a 14,5% boon in one way of getting those items as well as xp bonus etc. Fairly minor to be honest as far as P2W goes if it can even be called that in the first place.

Edited by samikf
The last paragraph
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Posted

I'd like to thank all the "its non p2w" naive dummies who gave Daum a pat on the back for this.

Enjoy your dead game.

PSA: they will milk you even harder to compensate for half the population quitting, stay stronk when they add RNG boxes o/

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Posted

Just remove the -30% tax from market bonus, and all good ;)

I have to agree with this.

I've purchased the game, a costume and some horse gear. Then some more costumes and horse gear appear every patch, making me feel like I've wasted my money on my initial purchase which only had limited options.

I buy a +150 weight limit increase and later a +200 weight limit increase with better weight/pearl ratio appears on the cash shop making me feel again I've wasted my money. Same for +8 to +16 bag slots.

I've purchased some pets at launch, but every time new pets make it on the market I keep telling myself I should have saved up and waited to purchase them now with all those extra options.

Spell stones now made it into the perl shop. It's basically a constant reminder that if I don't shed some perl into them, I will never be as efficient at farming.

With the addition of the value pack and 30% market sales bonus, every time I sell something on the marketplace I'm reminded that I'm loosing money.

There's a pattern here. If I don't spend money regularily on the game, I will start loosing gameplay advantages due to all this cash shop feature creep. There's no technical reason why they can't have a fixed, set-in-stone cash shop where everyone knows exactly where they stand. This is a sleazy manipulative technique to extract money from customers through the constant implementation of unpredictable new cash shop items.

I'm fine if the cash shop would be limited to vanity items and non-functional items only. However, at this point, I genuinely feel that I'm treated as a cash cow. The developers have no respect for me as a player. They have no respect for the money I spent on the game as they have no quarrel making that investment obsolete. I feel like the game is a front-end cover for a cash grab and I'm really disappointed.

But who am I fooling? This game was designed as a cash crab from the start. You have to look like an ugly rug unless you go to the cash shop. You have to manually pick up all your loot unless you buy pets from the cash shop (really? that's so sleazy considering most MMOs have "loot all" options). You're gonna struggle with space and weight unless you go to the cash shop (there's no "free" solution to increase your weight and bag slots significantly). It really feels like the product was designed as a cash grab first and a game second. No one can argue that forcing people to buy pets to pick up your loots is considered as a fun game mechanic rather than a cash grab mechanic.

I think the game industry went too far when they design their games around a cash shop instead of designing their games to be fun. And that's what happened to BDO.

 

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Posted (edited)

Let's imagine a hybrid of payment models from SW:TOR, Aion and Eve Online, all are quite stable games within their niches while Eve is several years old even though it is subscription based.

1. Value pack:

- leave contents and functionality as it is, even with the 30% market sale bonus

2. Add another bigger pack bought for 2500 daum coins. Which in addition to current content, once activated it would give you: 500 pearls and a costume change coupon which would allow you to rent any costume in the game for 30days, the business model is based on cosmetics and convenience, right? Give those premium accounts some additional flexibility

3. All other currently available items stay as they were

Now the very important aspect - make both of those packs the only things available on the market for sale. Think of it as PLEX in Eve. There is a limit of how many players would buy and vast majority will get it by either buying it themselves for cash or from other players so getting rich by puring a ton of real cash should be hard and posting an abundance of such packs would lead to their silver price drop.

 

Pros:

+ market will not absorb an abundance of these packs as the demand is limited by current population thus sellers won't be able to gain a big advantage using real money

+ every player has access to the value pack and even other items as once opened it would give 500 pearls

+ a stable and potentially long term flow of money for Kakao Games

Cons:

- players may still gain additional silver by selling these packs, though in a manner more dependant on supply & demand thus much less advantageous for "wallet warriors"

- some people will always label this as "P2W" and repeat a million times that they've already paid for the game sold as "buy to play", I can understand that to a degree however it is a much lesser evil than the direction we are heading as of now

- (this is a minor one) getting 4 pets without cash would be hard - we can potentially agree that pets are convenience only, however in conjunction with the model suggested above I believe that prices of pets could: a) be lower b) become available as a loyalty purchase c) stay as it is d) make them available on the market

 

 

Should this model be implemented I believe that the game could safely switch to F2P model with a ViP account (which we already have) accessible to everyone while still being fully playable without spending a dime - euro or even in game silver should you not care about the convenience/cosmetics oriented pack. Players who purchased the game would be presented with a pearl equivalent of the price they paid as well as a costume/pet coupon.

Hope this sparks some more constructive discussion than the ongoing drama around upcoming business model change.

In my personal opinion the VIP account based on convenience and flexible access to cosmetics in conjunction with a very limited ability to provide the market with pearl goods is the way to go here. Anything beyond that will always be a trigger for "P2W" label.

PS: 5 per month ;)

Edited by Apokryf
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Posted

So, we were given this thread to voice our opinion on Value Pack, which is of great importance to them. Yeah right. This is basically what parents do to their angry kids: they send them to their rooms to scream and cool down, while the parents do EXACTLY what they intended to do, regardless of the kid's opinion. It's been a while sine Value Pack was introduced and still no news if they are going to change it as the majority of community want it (remove tax reduction). The same will happen to discussions about Pearl shop.

 

 

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Posted

I think an optional subscription in the form of this Value Pack is a good addition to our B2P version; however, are these not both features which should take the place of market transaction of pearl shop items?

 

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Posted

Guys pay to win means that unless you pay you can't compete like best times in game being only cash all these things are convince items which makes it possible for people who work to stay competitive also without people spending money on this game they can't keep it going so please stop your crying and realize that you have an amazing game that you payed very little for and a developer community that listens to you and is trying to do what they can to make everyone happy

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Posted

Now they are going to take the % tax return out so people have to pay more and will utilize the new cash shop mechanic, everyone will lose

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Posted

I wonder when they'll forward this to PA :S

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Posted

F@ck1n Pay2Win 

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Posted

Greedy bastards :P

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Posted

I don't, and never will agree this is pay to win. To me, pay to win means I pay money for something that cannot be obtained in another way. I've seen people complain that it gives "Life Skill Players" an astronomical advantage. Anyone in Black Desert has the same opportunity to expand and use professions to make silvers. So, am I to understand that because people who purchase the value pack get an advantage because they don't pay the 30% tax? I suppose over time they can make more money, but they still have to go out and gather or produce items to sell. They are not buying silver and turning around and spending that silver on gear. I won't buy the value pack, but I don't care that other people do. I may have to sell one or two more items than they do, but I still have access to all the same marketplace items that they do.

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Posted

The only feedback needed was how much profit the value pack would generate ..

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