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Value pack is optional and not p2w and for you all "we should sub like WoW"

70 posts in this topic

Posted (edited)

Seen so many people cry about value pack being p2w or a "sub" method.
Also seem people cry about "we buy the game dont make it sub" or somular.
And see plenty of people mentioning (as alway) how blizz does it better eith WoW and how they would rather a sub based game andbla bla bla.

It seems that some people forget that in WoW (talking for people who played from the early days) ???You had to pay full price to purchase Vanilla wow and then £10 per month sub.
Then you had to pay full price £39.99 for each expansion. Burning crusade, Wrath of the lich king, Cataclysm, Mists of Pandaria and whatever the new ones are.
Thats with paying monthly also.
And then Blizz added a cash shop! with mounts and pets and other stuff (dont know exactly whats in it now as i no longer play)
Then they added pay for lvl 80/90 characters!

So thats perfect "we should use sub method like wow" means you HAVE to pay per months, you HAVE to buy each expansion and you CAN (its your choice) pay to skp the majority of levels and get a high level character and free gear.
So take away the pay for high level character (p2w)
You paid £39.99 for every expansion while paying £9.99 a month over several years + the option to pay for cash shop items.

In BD you pay for the game, you get free expansions and an OPTIONAL cash shop.
Unlike WoW if you dont want to, you never have to pay a single penny towards the games upkeep. When there is an expansion you dont get locked out of it because you didnt buy the expansion.
When theres new class you dont get locked out because you didnt buy the expansion.
You dont get locked out for not paying monthly sub.
You get a game that you paid for and get free updates for the life of the game.

And you get the option to decide if you want to buy cash shop items including the value pack and support the game.
Theres to pay for lvl 55+ characters
Theres no pay for top end gear

Some of you expect a game like this to be constantly free and no one pays money towards it and somehow expect it to run 24/7 with free updates for how ever many years to come.

If the devs and publishers dont make any money then who pays for development? Who pays to update the game? who pays for servers and networking?

Do you really think that any online game will last with 0 money coming on other than a 1 time pay to play box?

I remember a few weeks ago when every cried "ZOMG P2W F**K U DUAM" because you could sell dyes on the market!!
Omg that noob sold a dye for 10mill this game is so pay 2 win look how he hasnt even got +15 gear yet cos rng still sucks.
Omg they guy has armor that has dye on it wow such p2w
and now
OMG that guy still has to grind for hours and fight rng to get X drop and then spend hours again fighting rng to get another one and then has to fight the failstack rng gods to enchant it.
But he has teh value pack so hes going to get a drop every day.... oh wait hes not?
But he got bonus exp from killing the mobs h so you cant buy food or loyalty scrolls or take advantage of the numerous exp events we have had?
But hes making extra money from market thats p2w, ok so he makes alittle more money from you playing the market. Why dont you grind for an hour and make a few mill yourself? but he makes more!! yeah and he plays more too!!
But i dont pay a penny for this game and he pays money so that means p2w!!!
No it means that he is paying for you to play the game, because you invest nothing torwards the upkeep of the game some people who you consider p2w are actually paying for YOU to enjoy the game for free.

Now sure they could have makde the game sub based but 1 - it would have taken a lot longer to actually release the game
2 - cash shop would still exist in sub because "hey blizz have cash shop in thei uy and sub to play game"

Can anyone with the value pack get boss armor or weps easier? no not really
Can you buy boss wep and armor or +15 gear or higher from the cash shop?? no
Did you before the value pack was even out buy at least one +15 item for your main from market (possibly faught rng gods on fail stacking) i know alot of people who did including me.

Value pack is not pay 2 win. Its pay for convienience and pay for games upkeep. And its optional. And you all get one for free soon to find out how p2w it is.
Dont want to pay for convienence then dont. Itsnot forced. Its not a sub, you are not locked out of anything in game.

Enjoy the game, play it how you want, free or buy a pet or buy anything and everythign from cash shop., Its your choice. No one forces you.
But remember without an income the game willot run and not be developed. Then what will you do when servers shut down?

 

Edited by nollywood
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Posted (edited)

When Daum EU made the statement about subscription in the context of BDO, everyone understood that they is referring to the Korean style "premium" subscription system. 

 

Edited by WingsOfHeaven

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Posted

If the value pack is not p2w at all and does hardly anything then why isn't it free?  I know it's upsetting when you had so much faith that this korean mmo would somehow be different, buy it won't be, it'll go p2w and die.  Now you can brung out those tired insults and accuse me of 'crying' etc but that won't help you much will it?

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Posted (edited)

If the value pack is not p2w at all and does hardly anything then why isn't it free?  I know it's upsetting when you had so much faith that this korean mmo would somehow be different, buy it won't be, it'll go p2w and die.  Now you can brung out those tired insults and accuse me of 'crying' etc but that won't help you much will it?

because who will be the ones to pay for the servers?

It's free if you have a job, work 2 hours with minimum wage = 30 days of fun. OH MAN  DID I JUST GIVE OUT THE SECRET OF HOW TO GET IT FOR FREE? NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.

Edited by GamePois0n

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Posted


Can anyone with the value pack get boss armor or weps easier? no not really - yes, because you can get silver faster and easier - which enables you to buy it more easily

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Posted

 

if you work only 2 hours a month, it will save you more time, then why not get a job?

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Posted

because who will be the ones to pay for the servers?

I bought the game 30,- Euro

Bought Costumes, Elion's tears Horse breed resets etc...spend over 400 Euros.

Now they sneak in a "Premium Membership"?

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Posted

All "pay 4 convenience" means is that you swallowed the marketing kool-aid. 9_9

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Posted

Value pack being optional is exactly the definition of being able to choose for a p2w item. Otherwise it would be called subscription, preventing you to play the game. Oh wait, its b2p..

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Posted

Can anyone with the value pack get boss armor or weps easier? no not really - yes, because you can get silver faster and easier - which enables you to buy it more easily
 
Silver is faster and easier from value pack? there is no increase in silver drop.
It still takes the same time to grind mobs but you get a little extra exp.
You can make a little more money from marekt butagain you need to sell items on the maret for that which means you need the drops for that which means you need to grind for that and grinding makes money value pack or not.

Its not like theyadded a 50% drop increase to it.

If you cant grind a few mill an hour without value pack then you wont do it with value pack.
It wasnt hard before to make money and its still not hard.

 

 

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Posted

It is pay to win

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Posted (edited)

if you work only 2 hours a month, it will save you more time, then why not get a job?

don't worry mate, i have a job. and i've spend a bit of money on this game already - so this isn't the issue

don't think the value pack is something that helps people that play less - that's not the case - those that spend more time are getting more out of it.

Edited by Jylin

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Posted

Seen so many people cry about value pack being p2w or a "sub" method.
Also seem people cry about "we buy the game dont make it sub" or somular.
And see plenty of people mentioning (as alway) how blizz does it better eith WoW and how they would rather a sub based game andbla bla bla.
==SNIP==
Enjoy the game, play it how you want, free or buy a pet or buy anything and everythign from cash shop., Its your choice. No one forces you.
But remember without an income the game willot run and not be developed. Then what will you do when servers shut down?

 

You can educate birds, you can educate dogs, you can educate cats, but you cant educate MORONS!!! Unfortunatley mate there too many morons that hang out in the forums, the BDO staff knows it, the PROPER player base also knows it and as much as i agree with you, you're just wasting your time and effort trying to explain common sense to morons.
The funny thing about common sense is though, that its not that common!

The way that BDO is now and how it operates is good and well. 

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Posted

Be great when these shitty ass misers leave the game and take their toxicity with them. These creatures love screaming P2W over every little thing that's not P2W

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Posted

Value pack being optional is exactly the definition of being able to choose for a p2w item. Otherwise it would be called subscription, preventing you to play the game. Oh wait, its b2p..

Its optional.
You dont need to buy it
Do you want teh game to last? or be shut down when they cant pay for servers?
Your not locked out of anything.
YEs its buy to play  without a forced sub.
p2w is not pay for optional items. p2w is pay for must have items that if you donthave then you will never be able to compete. For example if they added boss weapons + 15 to cash shop.

 

You people these days see p2w and assume it means any cash shop. As i said before you guys moaned that dyes were p2w a few weeks ago.
Before that it was costumes and pets being pw2 or ghuile suit.

don't worry mate, i have a job. and i've spend a bit of money on this game already - so this isn't the issue

don't think the value pack is something that helps people that play less - that's not the case - those that spend more time are getting more out of it.

And why shouldnt people who spenmd more time in game get something out of it while paying for you guys who dont pay anything or rarely buy anything to play the game.

I can guarentee that if this game was only b2p with no cash shop then the game would be shut down in a matter of months. And then no one gets to enjoy it.

 

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And why shouldnt people who spenmd more time in game get something out of it while paying for you guys who dont pay anything or rarely buy anything to play the game.
I can guarentee that if this game was only b2p with no cash shop then the game would be shut down in a matter of months. And then no one gets to enjoy it.

Don't get me wrong, i spend plenty of time and money on the game. But still i think it's not fair for those that don't buy it. 

Having a cash shop for cosmetics and having a cash shop where you can buy advantages are two different things - and the value pack gives advantages or are you ignoring that fact?

Also, selling advantages for money is pay2win in my opinion.

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You can't compare an F2P game pretending to be B2P to a naturally born P2P game, it's like comparing a Ferrari with a puny Wolksvagen... 2 different universes 

The quality offered, the difference in mechanics (usually less gambing on P2P, while we play Black Casinò Online), this alone annihilates the comparison with any P2P game - don't forget P2P are naturally born better than F2P, even if some rookie publisher tries the card to make 'em B2P, the inner mechanics of the gameplay will remain those of a giant gambling machine - often rigged like BDO.

Another big difference is in P2P model "everyone pays" so there's no unfair advantage, in here you are cuttin' out of the competition those whom cannot or don't want to spend, this usually leads to a fracture in the community and, subsequently, to population shrinks. And when population goes under a certain threshold, the game usually gets shut down.

Then there's a small, legal, aspect: the game was selling as B2P, without any needs of other purchase, and with the avoidance of P2W, many of us are here for the game being B2P, now we have another shitty freemium game, with extreme F2P money-milking mechanics. It's a light example of Bait and Switch, and if you're in EU, Bait and Switch is considered FRAUD.

Lastly, but maybe the most important thing of all: they LIED to us, dunno you, but I can't stand being lied to, Lying to customer is the fastest way to be thrown out of businness, and this is what will probably happen.

 

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Posted

WoW also has tokens that you can buy for real money and sell it on AH. Reading forums back when it was introduced, I cant recall people crying that game become pay to win. On another hand to get gear in WoW does not require gold. You need to invest time into PvE dungeons or PvP Battlegrounds or Arenas. However, some people are offering things like last boss kill on highest difficulty, or Arena wins, for gold. Non the less, you cant win by just having gold. By having more gold just can speed up your gearing process.

Same goes with Black Desert, yes you get more silver out of market, which is good. But I think that 30% reduction should have been in EU/NA version right from the beginning of the game. Since B2P can be considered as permanent premium.

My experience on RU server was as following, on AH you can buy ANYTHING you need for VERY low prices. If you want pet, you write in the chat to so called "donators" to insert certain typo of the pet or costume, dress, horse gear, or premium account, WHATEVER you need. And you can buy it for in game silver.
Yes people with real money will have quick silver, but so what? It makes it flexible so that people without real money can afford to actually get what is in game shop. No one loses on this, game company gets real money, rich guy gets silver and enchanting his gear faster and poor fella gets that little things he always wanted.
Where is pay to win in this? Pay to Win is when you buy buff that lets you to actually win battles, for real money that others cant get without paying real money. Example, +10 AP tea for £10. That's P2W.

However, that item we got for reduction of ah prices, is exactly the same on RU server. Difference is we paid for the game, on RU you can just download and play.
What would help community is that clarifications by Daum, why it was introduced, what difference EU/NA will have comparing to F2P. Or do they (Daum) just plan to transit us to F2P model?
Regardless, Daum should start talking.
 

 

 

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Posted

OP has hit the nail on the head.  This game IS NOT P2W no matter how much whining complainers make that ridiculous claim. 

I played WoW for five years so I know that it cost way more to play than BDO and here it is an option just like the OP said.  People should be grateful and stop their -----ing over nothing.

People are complaining that having the Value Pack gives players that purchase the pack an advantage but what about the biggest advantage anyone can have in BDO and that's game time.  If it's unfair for people to get a break on tax by paying for the Value Pack then it's also fair to limit peoples game time so that those that don't have a job don't also have an advantage because they can play the game for more hours per day.  They are both the same; outside of game effects on the advantage in game that people have with playing time being the greatest advantage anyone can have.

This is a great game and it just keeps on getting better.  I'll be happy to support BDO by buying the Value Pack.

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The sub model with a cosmetic shop is my favorite model. If a game that has this model and features of a game like this and less of this casino feeling I am gone and I am in gaming heaven!! .. wait I am having a moment thinking about it... .. ok done!!! 

It is not about the money for some of us. It is about the money's affect on the gaming world. I want to be entertained and I want the company that creates this entertainment to get paid. I like the cosmetic shop idea or hell a donate/tip jar would be awesome!! That way when I like something I can TIP my favorite game producer \o/!! And when they add in game affecting items behind a pay wall I can NOT TIP THEM AT EFFING ALL! Then send them sad face emails. 

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Then there's a small, legal, aspect: the game was selling as B2P, without any needs of other purchase, and with the avoidance of P2W, many of us are here for the game being B2P, now we have another shitty freemium game, with extreme F2P money-milking mechanics. It's a light example of Bait and Switch, and if you're in EU, Bait and Switch is considered FRAUD.

 

 

Anyone who thought that they would pay for the game and never pay again is way too nieve.
How did you expect teh gameto get updated and keep running? when  no monay is being made?
The games industry is a business, its nto tomake free stuff for people and go out of business.

 

If you seriously thought that there would not be any cash shop or any items you could buy to invest in the game then you havent been around many games at all.
You definatly haventseen the 100s of failed mmos over the years which were so poorley run that even with actual pay to win items they couldnt keep the game runnin.
Even in beta there was cash shop. So if you still carried on and baught the gameafter knowing there ws a cash shop then whos issue is that?
Doesnt matter what way you look at it, games need money to run.

As in original post blizz is buy game+ buy expanions + pay every month + cash shop items too.
We have buy game once - free expansion, pay nothing each month, optional cash shop items.
Personally i think blizz system is worse

 

Is BD ideal no, personally i would have liked a buy game and pay sub. But im happy enough the way it is.

I do find it funny how every time somethign is added to cash shop its "omg pay to win" when in reality its not.

 

When you die in pvp do you know if they got teh value pack? or if they just worked hard and played loads?
You are still going to get owned by peopel who pay 0 towards the game. So therefore its not pay to win.

 

Also, selling advantages for money is pay2win in my opinion.

No its pay for convienence.
You can not physically buy an item from teh shop that immediatly gives you an advantage.
You cant buy items to guarentee pri/duo nor can you buy armor/weps/accessories,
What you cna do is pay for a convienence item that allows you to get a little more from the game that you play alot. And keep the game running.

Sure we coudl all pay 0. Have no cash shop and wait fro Duam to run out of cash.
And while that happed we can fill the forum with "omg fix your servers" "omg this bug and that bug" "omg so many gold spammers and bots" and then "omg i cant beleive you are shutting down the game"

 

Personally i like the game, and im happy for people to invest in it so that i can continue to enjoy it with others.
 

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Posted

OP has hit the nail on the head.  This game IS NOT P2W no matter how much whining complainers make that ridiculous claim. 

I played WoW for five years so I know that it cost way more to play than BDO and here it is an option just like the OP said.  People should be grateful and stop their -----ing over nothing.

People are complaining that having the Value Pack gives players that purchase the pack an advantage but what about the biggest advantage anyone can have in BDO and that's game time.  If it's unfair for people to get a break on tax by paying for the Value Pack then it's also fair to limit peoples game time so that those that don't have a job don't also have an advantage because they can play the game for more hours per day.  They are both the same; outside of game effects on the advantage in game that people have with playing time being the greatest advantage anyone can have.

This is a great game and it just keeps on getting better.  I'll be happy to support BDO by buying the Value Pack.

God, this is so much stupid and out of place.
 

stupid.jpg

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Posted

Anyone who thought that they would pay for the game and never pay again is way too nieve.How did you expect teh gameto get updated and keep running? when  no monay is being made?
The games industry is a business, its nto tomake free stuff for people and go out of business.

 

If you seriously thought that there would not be any cash shop or any items you could buy to invest in the game then you havent been around many games at all.
You definatly haventseen the 100s of failed mmos over the years which were so poorley run that even with actual pay to win items they couldnt keep the game runnin.
Even in beta there was cash shop. So if you still carried on and baught the gameafter knowing there ws a cash shop then whos issue is that?
Doesnt matter what way you look at it, games need money to run.

As in original post blizz is buy game+ buy expanions + pay every month + cash shop items too.
We have buy game once - free expansion, pay nothing each month, optional cash shop items.
Personally i think blizz system is worse

 

Is BD ideal no, personally i would have liked a buy game and pay sub. But im happy enough the way it is.

I do find it funny how every time somethign is added to cash shop its "omg pay to win" when in reality its not.

 

When you die in pvp do you know if they got teh value pack? or if they just worked hard and played loads?
You are still going to get owned by peopel who pay 0 towards the game. So therefore its not pay to win.

I'm not naive, I just come from a golden period where when I paid for something, I used to get exactly what I paid for, with higher quality, real customer support, less gamble and overall more fun, and things were fair. AS stated in another thread, I wish this game was P2P from the beginning, less scum around and overall better quality / no F2P moronical gameplay. 

Blizz system is far better, the game itself is quite crappy, but their monetization model is way better than what these Daum dudes are pulling out.

 

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Posted

    No its pay for convienence.You can not physically buy an item from teh shop that immediatly gives you an advantage.

You cant buy items to guarentee pri/duo nor can you buy armor/weps/accessories,
What you cna do is pay for a convienence item that allows you to get a little more from the game that you play alot. And keep the game running.

 

Selling a clear advantage about those that don't buy the pack is pay2win

ValuePack -> more silver -> more gear -> advantage over others in pvp

 

So why would it be bad to remove the additional silver income from the valuepack?

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Posted

 

Blizz system is far better, the game itself is quite crappy, but their monetization model is way better than what these Daum dudes are pulling out.

 

Ok blizz system is betetr is it?
Lets look at if you played WoW from the start up until now.

Including vanilla up until now there has been 7 purchasable content.

7 x £35 (averaging price)  = £245
Its been running for 10+ years so £9.99 x 10 years = £1198.80

Totallinng  £1443.80 you would have spent on it.

This is not uincluding cash shop pets and mounts and boosts to characters

BD £39.99
updated = free

Monthly cost to even be able to log in to the game = free

Cash shop = optional

Total price - £39.99 with optional extras.

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