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sad truth about end game and RNG (read especially if you're new!)

149 posts in this topic

Posted

Just to throw my 2 cents in on the RNG.  I managed to TRI my weapon, offhand, helmet and shoes today and nearly shit my pants because I spent damn near $60 million in preparation to have to rebuild failstacks on alternate characters to try and get things to work only not to have needed it as the amount of stones I had crafted was actually enough to get the job done.  My weapon pushed through with 1 concentrated on a fs of 25, offhand with a fs of 27, the helmet and shoes, I can't remember exactly but below 20 because I was trying to use them to build fs but they didn't fail.  I used the last 2 non tri pieces of gear to help build fs.  Keep in mind none of it's boss gear but my liverto, but I was planning on much more resistance to obtaining tri than what I was given.

Now on the flip side, when +15 was our gear cap, my RNG was so bad, I instead opted to force enhance much of my gear, because getting stacks of 40 fails wasn't economical for me at the time and I couldn't buy or farm something like a witch's earring or mark of shadow at the time.  I ended up getting to +15 before most of my guild this way.

 

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Posted (edited)

It is strange how the drop-rates can work. Sometimes, I'll get an abundance of one item within an hour, and sometimes another item from the same mob. For instance, I could get 4-5 bares belts in an hour from Catfishmen one day, and the next day get 3-4 relic shards per hour without even seeing a bares belt. True RNG should be relatively non-subjective and I should be able to get the same amount of items according to their proportions on the "loot table." However, time and time again, I have had one item be favored over the rest in dropping, and I have never seen that kind of wonky RNG in any RPG or MMO that I've played. Of course, we can speculate all we want, but unless PA comes out and says it (or someone obtains BDO code), we'll just be wasting our breath.

Edited by Kalade

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Posted

IDK about this "hidden luck". I've been extremely lucky (muskans & 2 bheg glvoes in 3 weeks) and i've been extremely unlucky (failed TRI weapons 10+ times, never had an ogre after 80+ hours, etc). I feel like my friends who are "blessed" just create more opportunities of RNG than those who fail a couple times and give up. I know this doesn't apply to those who have literally received NO RARE ITEMS from any facet of this game, but it feels like RNG for most.

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Posted

agree on everything.

 

i cant progress since weeks and i'm failing tri ogre on tour, failing upgrading my weapons. just simple everything

makes me really quit the game. 

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Posted (edited)

I also belive there is some kind of hidden rng let me show u why...

Murthag/Warrior my first BDO Character...

Total playtime: 81D 22min

Total Rare drops: 2xWitch Earrings, 1x Belt of Shultz gladiator

Sxo2HP7.jpg

Khitana/Sorceress my new/old bae atm with Maingear beside Weapons

Total playtime: 8d 6h 39min

Total Rare drops: 7 Witch Earring

ep1kQJp.jpg

Shakur/2nd Warrior with "Mainweapons" and actually my maincharacter, rerolled after knowing this game has hidden stats....

Total Playtime: 102d 3h 43min

Total Raredrops: 60+ Witch Earring/Crescent rings/Red Corals

wZJsUC9.jpg

Deeznuts/Musa my first attemp to ----- up rng, lvled it wit full gear of fortune and luck gems and grinded only at witches sanctuary from 48-56, some people from Alustine my remember that name because i get shittalked beeing a cheater/hacker a lot.

Total Playtime: 27d 3h 51min

Total Raredrops: Witch Earrings only 200+

This is no joke this character dropped 3-4 Witch Earrings a daily Session, best day was 10x Witch Earrings

6N1q907.jpg

 

So summed up i have a total playtime of 218D+ (sure a lot afk processing/alchemy when i was -----ed up) wasted time to get:

Tri Kzarka Longsword

Duo Kzarka Amulet

Tri Dandelion Scythe

Tet Dandelion Greatsword (Success at 118fs)

Tri Kutum Shield

Tri Nouver Talisman

2x Duo Red Coral Earrings

2x Duo Crescent Rings

1x Duo Basilisk Belt

1x Duo Manos Diamond Necklace

9 of 13 Characters with 50fs+

Worldboss Drops: 1x Kutum Box, 1x Dandelion Box

Eventdrops: 1x Giaths Helm

Soiled Ogre Ring Drops: 1x Ogre Ring

Endgame accesory drops: none beside 1x ogre and x crescent rings

Average Shard drops per run: 0-3 (current energy 279)

qOsn2Gc.jpg

pQjDAI5.jpg

k9LsolT.jpgv1Ew7hA.jpg

kscMoye.jpg

Total Money Spent: 2130€ for Costumes/weights/Value Pack but mostly Artisan Memory Fragments...

+ 99.99€ for Conqueror's Package

XCQu3fr.png

Idk how u guys see it but i know plenty of people that have much better gear with not even half the efford i had....

Sry for the long post

 

Edited by Shakur

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Posted

the people who made the failstacking chart have good rng on their accounts or chars.

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Posted

 

Jouska has said that there is no hidden luck 

 

 

yet as long as i play i find this hard to believe, and trust me i do play long https://i.imgur.com/mqr4Maw.jpg as you can see by my skillpoints and i have a full boss armor set for awhile now and i did buy every single piece with tree armor costing me over 850million alone so yes, i farm a ton and i play a lot and i also see and talk to a lot of people and all that being said i still don't believe that this game has no hidden luck.

 

It doesn't matter what you call it, hidden luck or account luck or character luck or whatever thats just terminology, what im here to complain about is the so called "RNG" so focus on the point rather than the wording.

 

The point is that there are people that get drops consistently regardless of what they do and there are people that simply have to suffer by doing 400+ bosses and not getting anything while others would get 3 boss items within 200 bosses. Hell, there were people that had multiple bheg gloves within 10 days of their release, without bundles.. how the ----- is that even possible?  It's definitely not DPS based because i just straight up outdamage these people, i go 1vs10 vs said person and i kill him and the other 9 people at the same time, there is absolutely no way in heaven or hell that this guy did more damage on me on a boss yet he constantly gets more loot than i do 

,, people have made billions of free gold on bosses with minimal effort while others have had to suffer their way up through (like me) which is just unfair and demotivating and retarded as hell

I have guildmates which are so called "RNG BLESSED" people which consistently get good loot and i also have guildmates which don't get good loot, not just at 1 place but in the entire game in general.. i have a guildmate who started over a month after me and plays less and doesn't grind than me and is straight up just richer than me despite the fact that he doesn't grind that much. He's arguably richer than me without doing anything and we've known each other for years so im not really envious im just -----ing pissed off because i put effort and dedicate my own time and i end up getting jack shit while there are people that don't do much in game and end up with more due to sheer "RNG"?  HA.HA. I don't think so.

 

recently there was a patch that made it so that everyone has the same max hp/mp and we've speculated that this might also reset the hidden luck (which is obviously not the same) and since that patch i've noticed increase of drops not just for me but for everyone (as you can see on world bosses , a lot more stuff drops for people and that started with the patch that reset the max HP). I actually got a boss item drop after so long like seriously we did it.. or so i thought. Decided to gamble because thats absolutely the only way you progress with gear and what would you know? I've failed so much that for the past 1 month i probably threw away about 2billion of silver to RNG and i literally don't have ANYTHING more than i did before except a whale earring (but i already had a duo witch before so+ 100 hp i guess ..yay) 

Anyway, all that being said, we thought that the reset max hp patch might've done it but nope, the RNG blessed people in my guild are getting 5+ shards per dig session and some have reached a whooping 9 per session and for the same time/energy i get 1 hard shard on average and as you can see on that screenshot i was digging, 350~ energy used so far and 0 shards.

(as an example in general/ dont take as a singular case) Yesterday i used 460 or so energy and i got 1 hard while guildmate next to me got 6 shards and this happens every time all the time. I went to grind on crescent shrine for about 6-7 hours yesterday and   after i stopped farming he had over 15 shards  which nets him about 70million which is probably 50mil more than the money i made over at crescent because valencia and RNG drops lol pls 

people in my guild can make 40mil+ almost every day by doing nothing but gathering and i cant make 40mil by gathering even in a -----ing week unless i get a bunch of better sessions (which is still less than 5 shards in total and almost never happens). I have a valk in my guild lvl 56 with 800 skill points that never grinds that gets insane amount of money by just shoveling and has a tet weapon and full tri  gear , meanwhile i can't even begin to imagine attempting tet weapon yet.. 

 

thing is, this game's RNG is rigged as hell and is not real rng regardless of what casual plebster whiteknights that dont farm/play the game would say on the forum and i doubt jouska or anyone from the staff would actually admit there is hidden luck even if they knew that (and they might just not know, hell even pearl abyss may not know at this point) 

 

You're ____ literally ____ trading your life for this game and in the end the game laughs at you and spits at you with its hidden bullshit that's not real RNG. The one thing we all agree on (rng blessed people and unlucky ones) is that loot seems to drop in waves and if you're "in the zone" you'll be getting drops and you can even predict it despite the game's rng being ridiculous. I've only realized im in the zone once.. i was farming skeletons (on my way back from valencia) and i was getting insane amount of loot so i got up on my horse rode to ogres killed 3 ogres and i got an ogre ring despite me farming them 250h before that and eventually giving up and not going back to ogres for month+, then i got a witch earring from 1 bundle and if i didnt relog cus i didnt think clearly id probably get a ton more stuff that night 

the rng in this game is just rigged as hell

in my today's session i did 450 energy 1 shard, my guildmate got a whooping 12 

how the ----- are we supposed to compete with people that get free money from the game over and over and over and over again? ?

 

And you know, at the start we thought that enchanting is unaffected by this rigged RNG but 1 month into this game there were people in the bigger guilds with 4X rings/earrings at TRI enchant like literally one month after the game started when i was still with +0, there were people in bigger guilds (multiple people not just one) with full tri accessories are you kidding me with that shit? 

Some guy says to get a tri you need 60 rings on average and back at that time theres no way people had access to even 20 rings/earrings but from inside sources in their guilds i know that most of them succeeded with less than 2 fails for entire sets of gear

 

and now comes the biggest problem - TET/PEN gear. What's the point of competing with anyone or even playing the damn game if you meet someone with a rigged char, not even a lucky guy, that just straight up outgears you? I mean i don't even mind that much in 1v1 but in any thing more (and this game is mainly more) it's just annoying and retarded as hell. I see a guy getting TET and 10 min later i meet him in red battlefield or node war or whatever ? 

I meet this random ass guy in arena he tells me "I get one shard per 40 energy and im gonna try tet soon" meanwhile i was grinding for 10h a day and i barely managed to get tri and i have 0 resources to attempt tet and i get no shards whatsoever so if i wanted to attempt tet id have to throw countless of millions on shards, which would be fine if it was the same for everyone but then you get people like my guildmate who get 30 shards for 2 days in which i get 2 shards. This isnt a small samplesize either cus we're like this for months now

... and yeah, i used to say 8 AP isnt much with enchanted gear but that was before we knew accuracy is a hidden stat and that enchanting armors also gives evasion. Now we know how this works and a TET item not only has higher attack and defense but it also has higher accuracy and evasion which is huge ..- - - and like i said, it's not unbeatable in 1v1 but this game is not 1v1. What if i do 1v3 vs people with tet while im with tri ? Not like getting tet requires any skill or preparation or knowledge either.. 

 

This isn't a rant about bad luck - this is a rant about the game being unfair and unequal to different players and one way or another there is something (call it whatever you want) that rigs this game so hard to the point where its just a mockery of human lives

 

and lastly, if you're a new player and you're afraid you won't catch up - just talk to people do some research and figure out if your account is lucky or not, if you're lucky you'll not only catch up but surpass people and if you're generally unlucky ( try to judge clearly and fairly not emotionally and with a small sample size) you might as well quit or just farm countless of hours a day to buy your gear..

 

 While this is an old post it is funny that i am currently working on somehow getting to the bottom of this RNG stuff in BDO. My current theory is, that the seeding mechanism is "broken" in BDO. Since everyone uses the same RNG algorithm it wouldnt explain luck, but if the seeding was based on CharacterID + SessionID one would be able to observe strange behaviour. I have 2 examples that indicate to me, that RNG is session/timeslot based

1. Horse Minigame

Ever noticed, that the horse minigame has the exact same tendency (initial speed and direction) ? It has slight variation, but its almost the same. Relogging will reset this.

2. Harvesting with dura crystals.

For those that dont know yet, if you put http://bddatabase.net/us/item/15126/ in your main weapon it also affects durability on harvesting tools. Without 2 of these i get a little over 600 rough stone from one Magic Pickaxe, with those i get roughly 20% more. Since the dura reduction is now RNG based one would assume a Gaussian distribution with the peak at the 20% more rough stone mark. But there are outliers that do not fit and they come in pairs usually (i normalle do 2 picks in one session) i have marked those with "?". I havent done a full statistical analysis yet (still need more data), but it doesnt look right to me.

 

If anyone doubts that a faulty seed implementation (or another defect) can leed to this should research the WI-Flag from Asherons Call (not the same, but similar). It would also explain Red Nose Day ...

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Posted

I belive the system is pretty simple as there is no real RNG in binary systems because it is always related to some data.

Look at your characters as a number generated by your name your id or anything else that comes into mind. now imagine every nod has an ID that might even be changed from time to time but not as much to not colapse the whole system( I belvie investing in nod system was suppose to "scale it" to your advantage but does it work? Who knows). Now those two numbers are taken togheter through an algorythm that determines "your lucky numbers" witch are in theory equal for everyone.

Those numbers take part in your "RNG" that determinets your drops. It needs to have some individualism otherwise it would drop a rare drop for everyone at the spot at one moment. Witch would be weird a little, So it takes into account personal "numbers"

Now in theory it's all equal and great but unfortunetly algorythms used need to be simple enough to not generate too much traffic and take forever so that creates "golden numers" the ones that specificly match and make you being in the lucky wheel a lot more times than avarage. An example of golden numbers is when you throw 2 dice the variety of numers you can get is from 2 to 12. but there are a lot of more ways to get some numbers as there are more combinations to get to them.

And sometimes this happens and a specific character starts to get good drops in a region for days. And other's are just frustrated because they're camping right next tot he guy who got their 10 witch earring in the last 2-3 hours while they're on spot for 8 and got none.

 

 

But it's all just a theory and seeing as this company likes to keep their cards to themself I doubt we'll get the answer in the open. There might be some people who were able to datamine some info but they surely know if they went public the company would just  shuffle the numbers and the whole thing would be usless.

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Posted

I also believe in hidden Luck since I created a DK.

My Ranger got less than 10 Scarla Necklace and 1x Witch Earring in 43d Playtime

My DK on the other hand... 1x Tree Spirit, 9x MoS, 7-8x Scarla in less than 2d and mostly while leveling/doing Daily Quests.

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Posted

M8. I have no boss drops since the game was released. A friend of mine was playing cards vs. Humanity while smashing bheg. He only hit him once, and he got bheg gloves. He didn't even realized it, cause he was reading the cards..

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Posted

Most people have absolutely no idea what "random" means, and see dice rolls being part of magic or whatever, who knows.

Reading daily stuff liike:

"it can't be 20%, I failed now 6 times in a row!"

"how can it be? I used 3 stones to get item X to +15, but have now 30 FS and can't get item Y to +15"

"I didn't drop exactly 10 shards today, so something is wrong!"

etc...

like they would have never played a dice game in their life, and just don't get the concept of "chance" AT ALL lol.

 

it's really incredible, like a bunch of apes or so, strange that they can manage to read and write (to some extent) even.

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Posted

A dude with 4/4 boss armor complaining about RNG...

You read my mind, but you have to remember, no matter what system is in place, you will always have those that will complain.

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Posted

Yeah i agree with op as well.

My nephew and i started playing bdo since beta 2, when we both go grinding in hexe i would get around 3 or 4 earings and he would get non at all.

Not only that but his enchanting luck sucks just as hard, i can pri a witch earring with only 20 stack never ever had 1 fail.

But he, he tried 8 times everything lost nothing ever succeed when he's trying it.

Also since PA likes hidden BS this is not a stretch by the imagination saying there is a hidden luck factor.

Remember hidden hp/mp the disparities between chars was huge, so who is to say that there isn't a hidden luck value i mean the most important stats are hidden nobody can check anything without extensive testing. But the change that PA changes some values are also high so how long the information is accurate is unknow.

But from my experience playing this game i agree their is something smelly about RNG in bdo.

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Posted

Most people have absolutely no idea what "random" means, and see dice rolls being part of magic or whatever, who knows.

Reading daily stuff liike:

"it can't be 20%, I failed now 6 times in a row!"

"how can it be? I used 3 stones to get item X to +15, but have now 30 FS and can't get item Y to +15"

"I didn't drop exactly 10 shards today, so something is wrong!"

etc...

like they would have never played a dice game in their life, and just don't get the concept of "chance" AT ALL lol.

 

it's really incredible, like a bunch of apes or so, strange that they can manage to read and write (to some extent) even.

And BDO would be the first game ever to mess up their RNG system /sarcasm

You may want to put a few points into reading comprehension too btw.

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Posted

when i play 15h a day...

... when you do that, you should invest better the few spare moments you can dedicate to elaborate some thoughts. For example you might think at something that does not concern the game, it could be refreshing for your ideas and your mood.

 

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Posted (edited)

The problems are actually 2

1) The RNG which is bad implemented, it can just happen for technical and very complicate reasons, read this -> https://csgillespie.wordpress.com/2016/02/16/randu-the-case-of-the-bad-rng/

or just look at this self explanatory images.

rplot1.png

2) The fact that TET and PEN enchantments gives so much more bonuses than any other enchantment level. This is exactly the definition of bad game design choices.
What you'd want is the opposite: diminishing returns for increasing level of power, so that there is an edge in power level for more advanced characters, but this goes decreasing as we approach to the theoretical maximum, ideally differentiating the veterans from the newcomers into a 25% bracket of the whole extention of power levels scale. 

 

Edited by Thelma
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Posted

Most people have absolutely no idea what "random" means, and see dice rolls being part of magic or whatever, who knows.

Reading daily stuff liike:

"it can't be 20%, I failed now 6 times in a row!"

"how can it be? I used 3 stones to get item X to +15, but have now 30 FS and can't get item Y to +15"

"I didn't drop exactly 10 shards today, so something is wrong!"

etc...

like they would have never played a dice game in their life, and just don't get the concept of "chance" AT ALL lol.

 

it's really incredible, like a bunch of apes or so, strange that they can manage to read and write (to some extent) even.

you can spot such a person when they ask in global: "how many FS do I need to enchant this or that?". It's obvious that (too) many players are convinced that if they have a certain amount of FS they are almost sure to succeed, and that (too) few players have studied percentages and understand what 1 to 20% actually means.

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Posted

Every time i go to the forum to complain about rigged RNG and i read a post that suggest "its just RNG it'll be fine!" i get some hope but then i go in game and within a day this is crushed by the same old story.


I don't want to sound like a conspiracy theorist or anything but im fairly certain that tomorrow my guildmates ( the rng blessed ones ) will once again gather more shards than me and if i don't go to sausan (which is the only place that actually rewards effort as money in there comes from fodders not from rare loot) they will also pull ahead ahead of me money wise

it's not just for gathering too  but its the hot topic right now anyway...

 

we've been meaning to have guild shoveling events with all of us together so maybe its a good time to try it altho the results will be quite predictable ( for the upper half and the lower half ) 

 

 

 

You need a bigger sample size than just one digging event.  You need hundreds if not thousands.

Take the people that seem rng blessed.  And every day dig in the same spot 300 or so energy. Do that for a month recording the results each day.  This requires them to be truthful though, ive met people that do actually exaggerate.  They might get a streak of 5 sharps but say it was 8 or 10 for some reason.

If you do this for 30 days that will be 9000 digs.  Which isn't a bad sample size.  I bet you guys end up pretty even.

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Posted

Better system for boss gear:

  • Each boss drops a shard with their name. 
  • When you collect X number of those shards, you combine them and it creates an appropriate boss gear loot bundle.
  • Takes the RNG out of it and instead it is a fun progression as you build up to 10, 20, 50, however many shards BDO staff think is appropriate.

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Posted

Better system for boss gear:

  • Each boss drops a shard with their name. 
  • When you collect X number of those shards, you combine them and it creates an appropriate boss gear loot bundle.
  • Takes the RNG out of it and instead it is a fun progression as you build up to 10, 20, 50, however many shards BDO staff think is appropriate.

they do drop tokens, yet it is only a chance of drop too. Way to much RNG

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Posted

Oh god, why did this troll OPs thread resurfaced. Mods close this terrible necro

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Posted

Well, onr more time: "random" does NOT mean, everything will be fairly spread.

Even when looking at statistics and big numbers it turns out that it's a solid average - looking at two individuals can easily result in huge differences.

A lottery is the best real life example of low chance mechanics. While a few become millionaires, others just pay and get nothing. While the chances in BDO are considerably higher, they are still low enough for things like fulldrops and shards, that there can be huge streaks of having luck or bad luck.

Also, luck doesn't have memory. It doesn't matter how often you failed or succeeded before, next time you will have the same low chance again.

 

Granted it can be very frustrating, but at least it does a good job providing a long term goal, without knowing exactly in advance when you will be "finished".

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Posted

OP makes a lot of sense, he is terribly unlucky and never catches a break, YET HE OUT DAMAGES EVERYONE ELSE SOMEHOW WHICH IS ENTIRELY EQUIPMENT BASED.

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Can't even get PRI failed 8 times in a row starting at 23 fs multiple characters. Out of all my PRI tries it is about 1/5 success rate starting around 20 failstacks. Also DUO i only got 1 success out of 24 attempts resulting in multiple tet stacks on couple characters, all starting around 27-28 after PRI fails. My only successful DUO enchant was at 45 FS. Cancerous system making me want to quit. Seems like the game want me to force PRI -> DUO -> TRI and swipe the credit card for artisans for 300 durability repair. Can't even get shards with gathering. Every day 285 energy gathering and usually only one hard per session not a single sharp ever from gathering. Marketplace is also impossible, yesterday 34 shards placed at once and not a single bid won. I can't even imagine trying a TET enchant, even TRI is not worth it because my abysmal success rate for DUO (people talking DUO is easy like it is a skill to roll the dice for the number you want). Probably luck is a hidden stat as well as HP per level up used to be (for my second character at launch i kept track of it and almost every level was +1 or +2 hp only couple +4 or +5 hp), because some people are consistently lucky or unlucky, with enchanting but also drops and shards/hards from gathering etc. Life skilling and combat is fun such a shame everything is behind an RNG wall and everything is made to cashgrab. Seems like there are a lot of players like this who are trying to progress but the RNG wall just doesn't allow it, even buying the gear is locked behind an RNG Wall. I already have a pre-order for double the price of a DUO shulz belt for 2 weeks (can't get it by enchanting neither by bids). Because there similar people with abysmal luck who saved money so pre-orders on all pieces of gear are huge. That everybody is trying to buy gear is a clear indication how crappy the system is. Because enchanting should be better as you can progress in small increments but if the game doesn't allow it the only other option is buying.

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