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value pack - we got outplayed

265 posts in this topic

Posted

The value pack still gives me more rolls on the RNG, so value pack owners win ON AVERAGE against those who don't own it.

wtf no it doesn't. 

 

i didnt get a second roll when i failed tri basilisk belt, if i could i would of second rolled it.

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Posted (edited)

What do you win by killing someone, you just get karma rofl.. in ow

In node wars the best zerg guild wins value pack or not so it doesn't matter for sht go back to your hole and let us know when u hit lv 60

Edited by Flaw

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Posted

Agree that the Value Pack needs the marketplace tax reduction removed, but I don't see where you're coming from with the maids being P2W.

Why though? Why is the marketplace tax reduction worse than the other aspects from the VP? Is it because it's not available in the store on its own?

What I'm finding most beneficial about the VP is the fact that I can go out and quest/kill things for longer before needing to worry about inventory space or weight. I think that's a much bigger benefit than the tax reduction.

On the other hand, the tax reduction makes me more likely to list stuff that I wouldn't otherwise sell because I *might* need it in the future, and selling anything and buying it back later is usually a net loss.

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Posted

 

Except the difference isn't 450 GS vs 455. If we are to create two people of equal luck and equal playtime, one with perma and one without value pack, the difference would be much bigger than that.

The diminishing returns argument you keep making is a very dangerous one to make. By that logic, no P2W items should have any effect, since you hit plateau. I can use the reasoning you're currently employing, word for word and justify why boss gear and valk's cry should be in cash shop right now.

Don't you agree we're talking extreme cases, at which point you already have boss gear ? At that point if you really still don't have Boss Gear, you can already pay in game currency for it. And for your failstacks. Which like you demonstrated yourself, is kind of a trap past a certain point.

VP value is still extremely dependant to what time you invest into the game, these days i barely play a couple hours day, VP has absolutely no effect on my situation. I casually tend to my crops and TRI my gear. I don't expect to go full PEN for the sake of fairness, this is not BDO's design, i'm absolutely fine with being overpowered by people who dedicate more time than i do.

Throwing items like Valk's cry and Boss Gear into PS is allowing to pay to bypass hundreds of hours worth of gametime instantly, without any time investment required to begin with. I'm sorry my english doesn't allow me to explain myself better but i believe you understand the difference i'm pointing at. VP is still months of constant investment to even begin to notice an increase in your progression curve.

Soft cap effectively affects only but the most hardcore players of this game - although i agree the soft cap itself is also relative to player tiers, hence why my comparison - at which point you're merely reaching some kind of morbid wealth obesity where you just pack silvers for the sake of swimming inside of it, or i dunno, TET another tree spirit armor or something.

I'd even go as far as to say most PS benefits are nothing but placebos for a vaste majority of the playerbase, VPs target being the typical casual family man/woman and the dedicated powergamer, and the other layers of the playerbase if they're naive enough to buy it thinking it will actually help them. but that's a whole other subject.

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Posted

I get the feeling the OP could be outplayed by a pencil...

 

No P2W has been added this maint and there's barely any P2W in the game. 

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Posted

 there's barely any P2W in the game. 

take 2 people that are equal of skill , equal of luck just for the sake of argument

make sure one of them has 1100 weight, 4 t4 pets, costume, value pack and the other one has none of these

both play 8h a day 

both play 1 month then they meet and compete and we'll see if theres no p2w when the only difference between these 2 people are paid items ? The difference will be so immense you can't even begin to comprehend

 

 

ou play 300+ hours each month but don't want to invest a handful of bucks, you're not competitive, it's in every game like this. either you need a very good mouse, or a flightstick, or a steering wheel, or a very good graphics card - you name it.

good joke

 

there isn't a single competitive game in which investing more money than your enemy makes you "competitive" - league,sc2,  any shooter etc what the hell are you smoking? theres no competition in who pays more money lmao what the -----? 

Agree that the Value Pack needs the marketplace tax reduction removed, but I don't see where you're coming from with the maids being P2W.

maids are a small advantage and this thread is about the value pack not about the maids. They did add maids now, they added worker slots awhile ago, they add branding they add all kinds of stuff slowly but surely and you peopel on the forums keep saying "what p2w its not p2w lol theres almost no p2w" yet every month we get something that gives advantages to people that pay money and in half a year this game will be ludicrous 

 

 

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Posted

I'm sick of the reactionary derps on this forum who don't know what P2W actually is

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Posted

wtf no it doesn't. 

 

i didnt get a second roll when i failed tri basilisk belt, if i could i would of second rolled it.

it doesn't? it gives you more silver so on the 10th attempt you can buy belts to try 11th time etc etc. of course it gives advantage. 

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Posted

Why though? Why is the marketplace tax reduction worse than the other aspects from the VP? Is it because it's not available in the store on its own?

What I'm finding most beneficial about the VP is the fact that I can go out and quest/kill things for longer before needing to worry about inventory space or weight. I think that's a much bigger benefit than the tax reduction.

On the other hand, the tax reduction makes me more likely to list stuff that I wouldn't otherwise sell because I *might* need it in the future, and selling anything and buying it back later is usually a net loss.

Because it is unabashedly selling silver for real money. It's essentially a form of sanctioned RMT.

In the other regions you can buy cash shop costumes and sell them at the marketplace. Players here railed against that saying it was P2W and they didn't want players to be able to leverage their real world money for ingame currency. Yet that is precisely the same end result that is happening when a player gets the marketplace tax reduction. The only difference here is that there is one more step.

  1. Buy costume from cash shop
  2. Sell costume for silver

That is using real world funds to receive ingame currency that you otherwise would not have had. It is considered P2W by the playerbase.

  1. Buy premium subscription (aka 'Value Pack') from cash shop that gives marketplace tax reduction
  2. Sell random non-cash shop item
  3. Receive extra silver thanks to cash shop purchase

Again you are using real world funds to receive ingame currency that you otherwise would not have had. It is the same end result as the above.

The only reason the 30% marketplace tax exists at all is so that they can sell the tax reduction in the cash shop.

If they want to avoid P2W in our version than it would make far more sense to remove the tax reduction in the "Value Pack" and to replace it with a 10-15% pearl discount in the cash shop. This encourages players to spend more, while keeping P2W out of the game. As for the marketplace tax, they could either drop it to the reduced price for everyone, or introduce merchant guilds for crafters that members only have to pay the 5% regional tax. Or hell, link the marketplace tax to the players' Trading skill. Make that skill actually matter.

Anything but selling silver this way.

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Posted

I'm sick of the reactionary derps on this forum who don't know what P2W actually is and wish the mods would just delete this no brained shit lol

take 2 people that are equal of skill , equal of luck just for the sake of argument

make sure one of them has 1100 weight, 4 t4 pets, costume, value pack and the other one has none of these

both play 8h a day 

both play 1 month then they meet and compete and we'll see if theres no p2w when the only difference between these 2 people are paid items ? The difference will be so immense you can't even begin to comprehend

 

Read what Lemon just posted magdelena.

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Posted (edited)

Don't you agree we're talking extreme cases, at which point you already have boss gear ? At that point if you really still don't have Boss Gear, you can already pay in game currency for it. And for your failstacks. Which like you demonstrated yourself, is kind of a trap past a certain point.

VP value is still extremely dependant to what time you invest into the game, these days i barely play a couple hours day, VP has absolutely no effect on my situation. I casually tend to my crops and TRI my gear. I don't expect to go full PEN for the sake of fairness, this is not BDO's design, i'm absolutely fine with being overpowered by people who dedicate more time than i do.

Throwing items like Valk's cry and Boss Gear into PS is allowing to pay to bypass hundreds of hours worth of gametime instantly, without any time investment required to begin with. I'm sorry my english doesn't allow me to explain myself better but i believe you understand the difference i'm pointing at. VP is still months of constant investment to even begin to notice an increase in your progression curve.

Soft cap effectively affects only but the most hardcore players of this game - although i agree the soft cap itself is also relative to player tiers, hence why my comparison - at which point you're merely reaching some kind of morbid wealth obesity where you just pack silvers for the sake of swimming inside of it, or i dunno, TET another tree spirit armor or something.

I'd even go as far as to say most PS benefits are nothing but placebos for a vaste majority of the playerbase, VPs target being the typical casual family man/woman and the dedicated powergamer, and the other layers of the playerbase if they're naive enough to buy it thinking it will actually help them. but that's a whole other subject.

I think your argument here is very contradictory.

First you list the plateau effect as to why VP is not considered P2W, since at that range nothing matters much.... then you go on and talk about the subset of players who will never hit plateau and argue that they don't benefit as much from VP because they don't play.

Items like valk's cry and boss gear also does not allow you to bypass hundreds of hours. Because you won't have the material to use them. How would you use valk's cry when you don't even have high end equipment to enhance? Buying fresh boss gear doesn't even give you a noticeable advantage, because low enhanced boss gear is absolute trash, and unless you play, you can't even upgrade it.

There's literally no distinguishing feature between buying direct power and indirect power, except for the fact that some people have slow brains and don't quite put 2 and 2 together.

Edited by Featherine
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Posted

wtf no it doesn't. 

 

i didnt get a second roll when i failed tri basilisk belt, if i could i would of second rolled it.

You can buy a second try for silver (either use cron stones which would be dumb or just buy more basilisks belts and black stones for failstacks), the value pack nets you more silver. Conclusion? The value pack gives you a second try if you chose to put the extra money towards that.

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Posted

These devs only care about filling their pockets. They don't care about the health of their game.

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Posted

I think your argument here is very contradictory.

First you list the plateau effect as to why VP is not considered P2W, since at that range nothing matters much.... then you go on and talk about the subset of players who will never hit plateau and argue that they don't benefit as much from VP because they don't play.

Yes, that's why i said i find many people are being "fooled" into buying placebo PS items they won't even benefit from. Or to such a low extent they might as well go without it.

Items like valk's cry and boss gear also does not allow you to bypass hundreds of hours. Because you won't have the material to use them. How would you use valk's cry when you don't even have high end equipment to enhance?

Buying fresh boss gear doesn't even give you a noticeable advantage, because low enhanced boss gear is absolute trash, and unless you play, you can't even upgrade it.

But they do, if only the time you would need to invest into camping Bosses, gearing up yourself and level up enough in order to participate in the fight and earn anything, the same way you need a shit load of silvers if you're serious about failstacking.

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Posted

I think your argument here is very contradictory.

First you list the plateau effect as to why VP is not considered P2W, since at that range nothing matters much.... then you go on and talk about the subset of players who will never hit plateau and argue that they don't benefit as much from VP because they don't play.

Items like valk's cry and boss gear also does not allow you to bypass hundreds of hours. Because you won't have the material to use them. How would you use valk's cry when you don't even have high end equipment to enhance?

Buying fresh boss gear doesn't even give you a noticeable advantage, because low enhanced boss gear is absolute trash, and unless you play, you can't even upgrade it.

I'm tired of this already. Best solution is give everyone PEN gear of their choice for 200$ and change the game to cosmetics only items. We can have a real pvp game then I guess. This is a mockery as it is now. People claiming that 14.5% more cash per item is convenient is just the cherry on the top. 

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Posted

So they didn't do anything about the value pack and instead they are slowly adding more and more p2w to milk the naive mobile game lovers in bdo who think they are supporting the game by buying all this when the majority of the profits from bdo probably go to the investors of the game who are already focused on buying a new villa or making a new cash grab mmo in the upcoming years rather than keeping bdo alive and better (and yes they do try but with minimal effort) and nobody is going to say anything

 

value pack is overpowered and ridiculous p2w but they outplayed us by giving us free value packs, now people won't complain much at the start (even tho they should because this item is borderline ridiculous). 

It's easy to see how p2w value pack is. Imagine a guy plays 1 month with it and another guy 1 month without it and then they meet and fight. The guy with the value pack will have immense advantages and a ton more money, xp, even combat xp and he'll be able to grind longer thanks to inventory and weight. The guy with value pack will win by sheer advantages and that's what p2w is 

 

i decided to wait to see if they do anything about it but seems like they're gonna let it slide while they add more p2w features.. game industry has turned into shit , QQ 

Why does it even bother you when it's obvious you are not going to play anymore? And if you do, just don't buy the pack if it bothers you so much!

For those of us ( the majority ) that enjoy the game, the Value Pack is a VERY NICE "Optional" subscription choice that gives us added perks like all the other mmo's out there with a subscription. Most of whats in the pack is pretty much subscription items in the other games.

I don't see what your complaint is. If you don't like it, just don't buy it. If you don't like US buying it, then don't play the game with us. Simple!

 

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Posted

Obviously only a tiny minority visits and/or posts on these forums and I daresay, more players are actually buying the packs ingame than those that are here complaining about them, ergo...a profitable addition to the game for Daum and they are not going to remove it just because a few players gripe about it.

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Posted

..when everyone that plays the game regardless of how rich and active just hates value pack 

categorically false.

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Posted (edited)

Why does it even bother you when it's obvious you are not going to play anymore? And if you do, just don't buy the pack if it bothers you so much!

For those of us ( the majority ) that enjoy the game, the Value Pack is a VERY NICE "Optional" subscription choice that gives us added perks like all the other mmo's out there with a subscription. Most of whats in the pack is pretty much subscription items in the other games.

I don't see what your complaint is. If you don't like it, just don't buy it. If you don't like US buying it, then don't play the game with us. Simple!

 

value pack is nice to you? you're just a fool 

 

value pack is only hurting the casuals but they are too narrowminded to realize that

 

you don't have enough imagination to realize how much more stuff people that play 14h a day sell on the market and make extra profit from that

 

the gap between nolifers and casuals is growing even more thanks to the value pack so yeah nice "enjoying the game "

 

come enjoy the game vs me pls, i'll kill you so many times without even using hp pots then we see how you enjoy the game when you realize that in game money advantages on other people will sooner or later create a huge gap and make it unenjoyable 

 

say you farmed sausan for 4h today on a bad spot cus you're weak and cant defend main spot and sold 10 grunil pieces and then imagine that i farmed 12h sausan today on main spot cus i pked everyone (thats what i do when i go to sausan mostly anyway) and sell 60 grunil pieces then go figure how good value pack is 

 

 

Edited by irrelevant

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Posted

Yes, that's why i said i find many people are being "fooled" into buying placebo PS items they won't even benefit from. Or to such a low extent they might as well go without it.

An item's P2W potential is based on the higher end of reasonable use. In other words, what is possible for players who take advantage of that feature in reasonable limits. You can't just say oh yea they're selling quadruple fishing coupons in the cash shop but since I don't fish the item isn't P2W. That's not how it works.

But they do, if only the time you would need to invest into camping Bosses, gearing up yourself and level up enough in order to participate in the fight and earn anything, the same way you need a shit load of silvers if you're serious about failstacking.

 Without silver or a lot of materials, you can't use valk's cry at all. To get silver, you need to do something, and when you do something, value packs benefit you.

I'm tired of this already. Best solution is give everyone PEN gear of their choice for 200$ and change the game to cosmetics only items. We can have a real pvp game then I guess. This is a mockery as it is now. People claiming that 14.5% more cash per item is convenient is just the cherry on the top. 

Sadly we're only going to see alternatives in dreams.

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Posted

then he must pay, if he wants to be the best of the best.

if you play 300+ hours each month but don't want to invest a handful of bucks, you're not competitive, it's in every game like this. either you need a very good mouse, or a flightstick, or a steering wheel, or a very good graphics card - you name it.

it doesn't work to balance the game and marketing concept completely just for a handful of poor nolifers who don't even want to spend a cent per hour playtime.

Some people should try taking a few hours away from their game and actually go work and then maybe they could buy some of these items or they could sell some of their free Obama food for game money.

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Posted

it doesn't? it gives you more silver so on the 10th attempt you can buy belts to try 11th time etc etc. of course it gives advantage. 

 

You can buy a second try for silver (either use cron stones which would be dumb or just buy more basilisks belts and black stones for failstacks), the value pack nets you more silver. Conclusion? The value pack gives you a second try if you chose to put the extra money towards that.

 

this is for both of you


Belt is 50mil+ on almost every server NA/EU.

I would need 3 belts (150 mil+) to get back to duo AND at least 200 black stones to ensure I hit to 30+ failstacks for pri (its orange grade, has lower % to enhance). and 40 failstack for DUO safely. NOT INCLUDING ANY OF THE COST TO ATTEMPT TRI AGAIN.

EVEN THEN IT CAN BREAK AT ANY STAGE. You guys are dumb.

I would have to sell 750 million worth of ingame items to afford 3 CHEAP basilisk belts on NA(they are 74 mil+ on kr) on the "house" so to speak, not including black stones and succeeding pri and duo again, i already failed pri 3x before....

 

Plus you get 1 month+ free of the value pack, you get 1 week or w/e free every month for logging in and you get loyalty option which they are probably going to make it last a week and cost 2k loyalty or something. just claim your damn tri kzarka weapons from the auction during one of those times to afford an attempt at tri basilisk belt.

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Posted

 

An item's P2W potential is based on the higher end of reasonable use. In other words, what is possible for players who take advantage of that feature in reasonable limits. You can't just say oh yea they're selling quadruple fishing coupons in the cash shop but since I don't fish the item isn't P2W. That's not how it works.

That is absolutely not a right comparison to apply ? There's a difference between time invested until actual return on investment, and buying something you simply won't use. And again, that's not even taking the soft cap bottleneck into account.

That's also a mindset problem, between people who feel entitled to reach end level tier of power with equal chances no matter the time investment, which BDO is simply not about. If you're like me, a handful months more or less won't make any difference. Especially considering how reaching lvl56 @ 370 GS is a piece of cake affordable to anyone without even beginning to nolife the shit out of the game.

 

 Without silver or a lot of materials, you can't use valk's cry at all. To get silver, you need to do something, and when you do something, value packs benefit you.

Without valk's cry you are going to have to spend time to get those failstacks so i really don't see where you're going. And that's still not adressing the fact that VP return is proportional to how much time you invest, and that the time you would spend gathering VCs or boss gear can then be spent elsewhere.

You will simply go from A to B relative to your tier faster or slower, or without even a noticeable difference if you fall under a certain category, until you reach the softcap bottleneck.

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Posted

Personally I didn't have a problem with the value pack. If people want to buy it let them, not really going to affect my enjoyment of the game. (hell might even buy one myself on occasion). So what if it allowed some people to make additional silver, almost everything in the game allows you to obtain silver whether your AFK or online !

:)

 

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Posted

Okay, lets recap this: I said you get additional rolls on your RNG by the value pack, you said:

wtf no it doesn't. 

 

i didnt get a second roll when i failed tri basilisk belt, if i could i would of second rolled it.

The whole point of my next point was to prove you wrong:

You can buy a second try for silver (either use cron stones which would be dumb or just buy more basilisks belts and black stones for failstacks), the value pack nets you more silver. Conclusion? The value pack gives you a second try if you chose to put the extra money towards that.

 

 

this is for both you dumb idiots.


Belt is 50mil+ on almost every server NA/EU.

I would need 3 belts (150 mil+) to get back to duo AND at least 200 black stones to ensure I hit to 30+ failstacks for pri (its orange grade, has lower % to enhance). and 40 failstack for DUO safely. NOT INCLUDING ANY OF THE COST TO ATTEMPT TRI AGAIN.

EVEN THEN IT CAN BREAK AT ANY STAGE. You guys are dumb.

I would have to sell 750 million worth of ingame items to afford 3 CHEAP basilisk belts on NA(they are 74 mil+ on kr) on the "house" so to speak, not including black stones and succeeding pri and duo again, i already failed pri 3x before....

 

Plus you get 1 month+ free of the value pack, you get 1 week or w/e free every month for logging in and you get loyalty option which they are probably going to make it last a week and cost 2k loyalty or something. just claim your damn tri kzarka weapons from the auction during one of those times to afford an attempt at tri basilisk belt.

Now you just told me that you could actually buy a second try at your tri basilisk belt (which is absolutely end game gear and should be -----ing hard to get), but that it would be expensive and you need to sell lots of items to be able to afford it.

Guess what? I never claimed that you would get 2 rolls on the item with the value pack when others get only one, i only said that you would get MORE. So how does this cause a contradiction in any way? You literally just admitted that I was right and you could indeed buy a second try, you even put a price tag on it.

Actually you don't even need all those numbers you put on there. Let the average cost of a tri attempt be x. Without the value pack you sell items worth x/0,65 to afford 1 try.

With the value pack you sell items worth exactly the same amount to afford 1,3 tries. There you go: 30% more collection translates to 30% more rolls on the RNG. That's it, no need to put some numbers that depend on the market and that you only chose to make it look expensive (that's because a TRI BASILISKS BELT should be expensive).

Also thank you for calling me a dumb idiot, I really aprreciate your respectful behaviour.

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