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This is gonna hurt, I will be gentle (Updated)


121 posts in this topic

Posted

The truth is that u dont sell the game as B2P when in kr is F2P , and tell peps we are B2P coz we dont want other region p2w ........

Then u slowly go where kr goes so , that is a lie and they scammed u clear as that

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Posted

Why the hell is this game B2P in the first place then :(

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Posted

you are right, but we all want a fair game that does not involve real money to progress in terms of gear.

sure. I would love a fair game. That is impossible though. People can play more hours per day than I can which makes the game completely unfair, favoring the people with more time to play than me.

I not debating the P2W, people are crying about, I'm talking about the game being fair to all players. MMO's are not now and never will be fair to all players. Those who have more time will always be ahead of the rest of the players.

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Posted (edited)

The truth is that u dont sell the game as B2P when in kr is F2P , and tell peps we are B2P coz we dont want other region p2w ........

Then u slowly go where kr goes so , that is a lie and they scammed u clear as that

Exactly our point of view, and the very core of the problem here. If that game was P2W on 1st stage, we should have came accordingly

Edited by Angel_in

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Posted

I understand everything you said but i think you didn't realize yet the impact it will have on the game.

Right now it's "fair" (excluding RNG factor) 

No it's not fair to everyone. It's not fair because some people have more time to play than others. People with more time have an advantage over those who don't have the time 

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1.  You bought the game.  You received the product you purchased and was able to play the game.  This is what you paid for.

2.  You received additional content for the game that was not included with the original price.  You received this free.

3.  You are able to play this game and partake in all aspects of this game without spending any additional money.  

4.  Your character can have the same skills, level and gear as any other player without spending additional money.

5.  You can compete with any player in this game on the same level without spending any additional money.

6.  There has never been a single time since the launch of this game you have been required to pay additional money to continue playing this game.

Black Desert Online is a video game.  It is also a business.  The only way a business survives is to make money.  Lots of it.  Your idea of a business model may not be the same as Kakao Games (Daum).  Guess what?  Kakao games makes money.  Lots of it.  They kinda know what they are doing.  They may have one up on most of us when it comes to business.

You scream, whine and DEMAND the company does this thing or that thing, or else you will just quit.  You are a consumer.  You have the right to quit the game and never come back.  You scream CHARGEBACK!  Just remember, there is a thing called chargeback fraud also.  You may want to look that up.

You create numerous accounts and throw up a poll or ten.  You vote numerous times over and over to make it look like an overwhelming majority agree.  I have said it before and I will say it again.  Polls are useless due to the way the forums are currently set up.  People post on numerous accounts and do not actually have to have a copy of the game to vote.  How is this reliable?  Why on earth would Kakao Games even look at the forums and take what is said on there as reliable?

What Kakao Games will most probably look at are the numbers.  If revenue increases due to the changes, they will stick with it.  If revenue decreases, they will look into a way to modify it until revenue increases.

Please remember.   This game cannot survive for any length of time without new revenue.  Sure, it will run for a while off of the initial purchase price.  How long is anyone's guess.

From a business accountant point of view, losing 100,000 non paying players is no loss.  It costs the company NOTHING to lose a player whose only investment was the original cost of the game.  Keeping 100,000 players who routinely spend money on the game is what they are interested in.  That revenue keeps the lights on in NA/EU offices.  That revenue is what keeps the game alive and ever changing.

Lastly, keep in mind why Kakao Games is doing what they are doing.  They aren't trying to be evil and screw you over.  They are trying to make money and keep the game enjoyable.  If you don't agree with them, approach your objection with some thought, not a tantrum.  You may have that alternative that will work, but no one is going to listen if you present it in the form of a screaming mad 4 year old.

you are wrong... i can speak for around 80 Members.. ppl you would call hardcore / nolifers... you know what? A few weeks ago we had the fun to post the current moneyspend to this game... we had no member with less then 200€ spend and alot over 500€ and even ppl with 2.000€. All this ppl who are willing to pay to have  a good game, are so pissed atm. Noone likes straight up p2w. That they need money to provide service was clear for us all. But tbh... i think they lose more heavypayers over this then they will get in return. If this hits.. game is ded. Just talk to the GM outthere they all lose MEMBERS right now... and even before this the game was in a bad spot... just ask ppl ingame... 

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Posted

1.  You bought the game.  You received the product you purchased and was able to play the game.  This is what you paid for.

2.  You received additional content for the game that was not included with the original price.  You received this free.

3.  You are able to play this game and partake in all aspects of this game without spending any additional money.  

4.  Your character can have the same skills, level and gear as any other player without spending additional money.

5.  You can compete with any player in this game on the same level without spending any additional money.

6.  There has never been a single time since the launch of this game you have been required to pay additional money to continue playing this game.

Black Desert Online is a video game.  It is also a business.  The only way a business survives is to make money.  Lots of it.  Your idea of a business model may not be the same as Kakao Games (Daum).  Guess what?  Kakao games makes money.  Lots of it.  They kinda know what they are doing.  They may have one up on most of us when it comes to business.

You scream, whine and DEMAND the company does this thing or that thing, or else you will just quit.  You are a consumer.  You have the right to quit the game and never come back.  You scream CHARGEBACK!  Just remember, there is a thing called chargeback fraud also.  You may want to look that up.

You create numerous accounts and throw up a poll or ten.  You vote numerous times over and over to make it look like an overwhelming majority agree.  I have said it before and I will say it again.  Polls are useless due to the way the forums are currently set up.  People post on numerous accounts and do not actually have to have a copy of the game to vote.  How is this reliable?  Why on earth would Kakao Games even look at the forums and take what is said on there as reliable?

What Kakao Games will most probably look at are the numbers.  If revenue increases due to the changes, they will stick with it.  If revenue decreases, they will look into a way to modify it until revenue increases.

Please remember.   This game cannot survive for any length of time without new revenue.  Sure, it will run for a while off of the initial purchase price.  How long is anyone's guess.

From a business accountant point of view, losing 100,000 non paying players is no loss.  It costs the company NOTHING to lose a player whose only investment was the original cost of the game.  Keeping 100,000 players who routinely spend money on the game is what they are interested in.  That revenue keeps the lights on in NA/EU offices.  That revenue is what keeps the game alive and ever changing.

Lastly, keep in mind why Kakao Games is doing what they are doing.  They aren't trying to be evil and screw you over.  They are trying to make money and keep the game enjoyable.  If you don't agree with them, approach your objection with some thought, not a tantrum.  You may have that alternative that will work, but no one is going to listen if you present it in the form of a screaming mad 4 year old.

No dont u get it it's P2W!!! ITS BAD!!!

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Posted

I agree completely with the OP.  I also want a fair game which is why I agree with the additions to the cash shop.  The other option, to make the game fair, is to not make the items salable on the market but to instead limit everyone's game playing time to about 4 to 6 hours per day since spending time on the game (time and money are both external factors) gives those players with more time to spend a huge advantage over those that don't have lot's of time but do have money to spend.  Nobody can advance no further than anyone else can even buying the cash shop items which is why this game isn't p2w and no matter how much certain people whine and cry it still isn't p2w.

the addittion yo the cash shop isn't fair at all. do you really think you'll be able to "catch up" playing 4 to 6 hours a day just by paying your way through the game? i don't think so. the biggest playerbase we have is without doubt people with money AND time. 

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Posted

you are wrong... i can speak for around 80 Members.. ppl you would call hardcore / nolifers... you know what? A few weeks ago we had the fun to post the current moneyspend to this game... we had no member with less then 200€ spend and alot over 500€ and even ppl with 2.000€. All this ppl who are willing to pay to have  a good game, are so pissed atm. Noone likes straight up p2w. That they need money to provide service was clear for us all. But tbh... i think they lose more heavypayers over this then they will get in return. If this hits.. game is ded. Just talk to the GM outthere they all lose MEMBERS right now... and even before this the game was in a bad spot... just ask ppl ingame... 

And you think 80 people out of 1M+ is relevant for anything?  You can take your 80 people and even if they all spent 1000 Euros each (on average) that is only 80k Euros.  If the change causes 100k users to spend 10 euros you and your 80 friends don't mean jack.

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Posted

it is fair if you expand your knowledge about the game. you'll find ways that will make you tons of silver easely. in ANY game time invested = progression.

time invested is what makes games unfair. Not everybody has the same amount of time to play giving those with more time an advantage. If everyone was limited to 1 hour of play time a day. 

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Posted

No it's not fair to everyone. It's not fair because some people have more time to play than others. People with more time have an advantage over those who don't have the time 

well but that is still fair... if s1 goes everyday swimming for 5h and u go once a month for 1h... why should u be able to swim the same speed? In the end u could make the decission for ur own and u could invest the same time... so its fair! Its your problem, that u cant invest more time... but for that u have probaly something else the swimmer does not have...

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Posted

Except that many of us upset about this change spend money every month

No small amounts either

We appreciated that our version wasn't made p2w

kek

ikr? Between my main and Alts I've bought 7 full costumes and several pets. It's not like we weren't spending money.

They just wanted to cash in more. 

ugh can't believe they've done this.

 

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Posted

And you think 80 people out of 1M+ is relevant for anything?  You can take your 80 people and even if they all spent 1000 Euros each (on average) that is only 80k Euros.  If the change causes 100k users to spend 10 euros you and your 80 friends don't mean jack.

well... since i talk to alot of GM's i can tell u its more then 80ppl... just look in the forums... and do u rly think this game has still 100.000 players? Sry.... lol

Let it be 15.000 active players in EU and even this is to much... and yea do u think that the ppl who play this game for like 1-2h a week spend money to this game? srsly... brain is not given for free this days... 

AND: to take your example... u think a company shits on 80.000€ in 3 Month from 80 Customers? LOL u boy never worked or u are just a guy down in the food chain.

I think they see that the game is going down in playersize drasticly... and now they just try to get the last money.. After they bring this, they will bring Valkscry (2month from now). And then it wents F2P.

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Posted

1.  You bought the game.  You received the product you purchased and was able to play the game.  This is what you paid for.

2.  You received additional content for the game that was not included with the original price.  You received this free.

3.  You are able to play this game and partake in all aspects of this game without spending any additional money.  

4.  Your character can have the same skills, level and gear as any other player without spending additional money.

5.  You can compete with any player in this game on the same level without spending any additional money.

6.  There has never been a single time since the launch of this game you have been required to pay additional money to continue playing this game.

Black Desert Online is a video game.  It is also a business.  The only way a business survives is to make money.  Lots of it.  Your idea of a business model may not be the same as Kakao Games (Daum).  Guess what?  Kakao games makes money.  Lots of it.  They kinda know what they are doing.  They may have one up on most of us when it comes to business.

You scream, whine and DEMAND the company does this thing or that thing, or else you will just quit.  You are a consumer.  You have the right to quit the game and never come back.  You scream CHARGEBACK!  Just remember, there is a thing called chargeback fraud also.  You may want to look that up.

You create numerous accounts and throw up a poll or ten.  You vote numerous times over and over to make it look like an overwhelming majority agree.  I have said it before and I will say it again.  Polls are useless due to the way the forums are currently set up.  People post on numerous accounts and do not actually have to have a copy of the game to vote.  How is this reliable?  Why on earth would Kakao Games even look at the forums and take what is said on there as reliable?

What Kakao Games will most probably look at are the numbers.  If revenue increases due to the changes, they will stick with it.  If revenue decreases, they will look into a way to modify it until revenue increases.

Please remember.   This game cannot survive for any length of time without new revenue.  Sure, it will run for a while off of the initial purchase price.  How long is anyone's guess.

From a business accountant point of view, losing 100,000 non paying players is no loss.  It costs the company NOTHING to lose a player whose only investment was the original cost of the game.  Keeping 100,000 players who routinely spend money on the game is what they are interested in.  That revenue keeps the lights on in NA/EU offices.  That revenue is what keeps the game alive and ever changing.

Lastly, keep in mind why Kakao Games is doing what they are doing.  They aren't trying to be evil and screw you over.  They are trying to make money and keep the game enjoyable.  If you don't agree with them, approach your objection with some thought, not a tantrum.  You may have that alternative that will work, but no one is going to listen if you present it in the form of a screaming mad 4 year old.

1.Of course you bought the game with no P2W elements and they said such things they dont want to implement for EU/NA so they lied to us.

2. This is nice actualy and you are right at this point there is nothing to complain about. But i would rather pay for expansions but not have crap as P2W implemented . I was gladly paying all DLCs in other games as WoW or Diablo and many others.

3. Not true. In order to play this game without getting overburdened fast while farming and having 1 visual for your character is pretty frustrating and boring. So you have to buy min weight increase and at least one nice costume. And yes as new you should have also value pack , you dont want to loose your silver you have grinded hard in AH tax.

4. Not gear now because people are going to buy gear for real money when P2W system going to be impemnted next week.

5. You have to spend money for weight increase and at least 1 costume + maybe reroll mount skills cause this player will go much faster on horse.

6.Yes there was time , as i started to grind early in game and was constantly overburdened i have realized i must buy weight increase.

And anyway people i know in game also me has payed incredibly high money in game already like in any other game , hundreds per month , so whats the point you defending this system ? Yeah maybe you like to pay but you still can go to shop a spend there 10 000 eu or dollars if you wish to spend money and support this game . Or if they want to give acces to people buy it with silver those costumes and staff, they can make it in shop too , so you can choose you want to buy your costume with real money or hard farmed silver.

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Posted

Once a game goes "p2w" it wont go back. So either accept it or leave. Do people really think that if they spam the forums daum will change their mind? They went with a plan that they know they'll succeed.

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"It costs the company NOTHING to lose a player whose only investment was the original cost of the game.  Keeping 100,000 players who routinely spend money on the game is what they are interested in. "

 

Best part of the entire post, +1 to you.

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Posted

well but that is still fair... if s1 goes everyday swimming for 5h and u go once a month for 1h... why should u be able to swim the same speed? In the end u could make the decission for ur own and u could invest the same time... so its fair! Its your problem, that u cant invest more time... but for that u have probaly something else the swimmer does not have...

that doesn't make the competition between those two people fair.  And lets be real here. People who cry about P2W are crying about not being able to compete with people who buy their silver thru the cash shop. It's "unfair" to them that people can just buy stuff and not have too spend the same amount of time playing as others do.

Why Is it fair for someone to play 12 hours a day because they have no job or family when there are players who can't play that much because they do?

It's not fair too the person who doesn't have the time. They can't compete on the same level.

 

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Posted

Once a game goes "p2w" it wont go back. So either accept it or leave. Do people really think that if they spam the forums daum will change their mind? They went with a plan that they know they'll succeed.

no ofc not... but ppl wont fall to the scam/fraud again they did to us. Its nice to see how this went to a big marketing disaster... 

that doesn't make the competition between those two people fair.  And lets be real here. People who cry about P2W are crying about not being able to compete with people who buy their silver thru the cash shop. It's "unfair" to them that people can just buy stuff and not have too spend the same amount of time playing as others do.

Why Is it fair for someone to play 12 hours a day because they have no job or family when there are players who can't play that much because they do?

It's not fair too the person who doesn't have the time. They can't compete on the same level.

 

its your problem that u have a job / family get rid of it and u have time. Easy as -----. U have other things in rl u can be happy about... LIFE IS NOT FAIR! NEVER WAS NEVER WILL BE.

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Posted

I totally understand, that they need money to keep the game running, but I didn't see any investment into the game. There are textbugs since the beta which are easy to fix and make the game more enjoyable but they do nearly nothing to this. Same with desync, class bugs etc.... the valencia quests are only available in english and not in other languages. So don't come with the argument that the game needs money. They make millions every month. With a b2p, p2w and subscription model I only see greed and the aim to fill the own pocket.

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Posted

no ofc not... but ppl wont fall to the scam/fraud again they did to us. Its nice to see how this went to a big marketing disaster... 

its your problem that u have a job / family get rid of it and u have time. Easy as -----. U have other things in rl u can be happy about... LIFE IS NOT FAIR! NEVER WAS NEVER WILL BE.

maybe you should follow the entire conversion when you are quoting someone's statement.

But yes, exactly my point, there is not such thing as fair in mmo's. 

 

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Posted

you are right, but we all want a fair game that does not involve real money to progress in terms of gear.

Define fair

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Posted

I find this game the worst game to define "competitive fairness" given the obscene amount of different variables as is, from gear, time , people, servers taking a dump, random hacker, guild alliances, guild in general, war and how node wars work as is.

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Posted

Laughing-Tom-Cruise-Meme-01.jpg

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Posted

@Dauthusyou are right on your post.  Especially about the people that leave that never spent anything more than just the initial purchase.   The sheer stupidity of people actually thinking that they can change a game developers/publishers mind by whining is hilarious.    They need to make money in order to do so they will implement what they feel fit as a business model.   They don't need any input for the community on how to make money since we have no idea how they run their business internally.   If you don't like it leave and save the rest of us from your insane amount of whining.

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This is my speculations, but it looks like the $ we spend on BDO is going actually going to support Kakao Corporation in building out their Kakao taxi service and Kakao cafe chains. 

http://theinvestor.koreaherald.com/view.php?ud=20160720001024

"Some market watchers, however, said Kakao has been investing in games to use them as a cash cow while shifting its focus into the online-to-offline, or O2O, business that draws potential customers from online channels to physical stores. “The O2O business, which is considered Kakao’s future growth engine, needs some time to generate profits. The game business appears intended as a temporary cash cow.” said Kim Dong-hee, an analyst from Meritz Securities. "

you are my favorite person on these forums 

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