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Response To P2W Implementation


23 posts in this topic

Posted (edited)

To whom it may concern,

 

I am writing this letter in the hopes that it will have some sort of positive effect in relation to the current turn of events. I will attempt to keep this letter as objective as I possibly can, but I fear I will not be able to as this situation is very personal. As we are all very aware Kakao as well as Pearl Abyss have chosen to implement the ability to sell cash shop items via the market place. Understandably this has generated public outcry from the community who have, in large, been against such practices that would enable the ability to pay-to-win. Now while I do not speak for the entirety of our community I do believe it is my obligation to voice an opinion on this matter as many others have already.

 

Throughout the short lifespan of our version of the game we have experienced many changes, all of which are subject to opinion as to whether or not they were beneficial. As a community we have in large clashed with Kakao’s predecessor Daum EU over such matters both trivial and significant to the welfare of the game and its community. Time and again people have launched assaults against these events, both in a constructive and abusive manner; the same cycle can be witnessed during this time. Many have begun mounting protests against this upcoming change both within and outside of the game. Now while I do not agree shouting at them calling them names and vocalizing abusive comments is intelligent I do understand why they have chosen to react in such a way. As a community we had been led to believe there would be no P2W feature within our game; now this may be argued by those who deem the ghilie suit, value pack, sellable dyes, etc. P2W, but I have personally never found those to be that way and this particular discussion does not pertain to such matters. The addition of the ability to directly channel real currency into in-game currency, via cash shop items, is indeed P2W and is not what we want to have happen at all for a game many of us truly enjoy, despite its flaws. This change will severely damage the game as a whole and its effects can already be seen in game; players have begun offloading their most valuable gear onto the marketplace or even destroying it on purpose because they plan to leave the game and see no further reason to play. Now while I’m certain many will say “Good riddance.” I do not believe this to be a proper reaction to such things. These people are players who have put effort into this game to achieve what they believe to be important. They enjoyed the game for what it was and strived to become top players. I myself am not amongst these top players, but I do strive to meet personal gear goals to one day compete against them on an even playing field. Many can and certainly do claim that there is nothing to “win” in this game, but that statement can be applied to nearly any facet of life. As an analogy consider the following: You and a fellow coworker work the same job with the exact same qualifications, talents, etc. and each of you aims for a promotion. Now assuming you both put in the same effort would it be fair if your coworker could simply buy their promotion? No, of course it wouldn’t be. Even though there is nothing to “win” aside from what we perceive to be important in such situations, you put in the effort to try and achieve that goal and to have someone supersede you in such a manner is both upsetting and unwarranted. Should we examine such an analogy we can see it’s like within BDO should this change come to pass. Players will be able to acquire the best gear near instantaneously via selling cash shop items for silver and either purchasing the gear via the auction house or the night vendor. This will have a direct impact on the games health as it is primarily a PvP game in which the player with the stronger gear will usually reign supreme and the player willing to pay real money in such a manner will have most likely have the stronger gear. Even the RNG presented in the enhancing process will not deter such events as you can easily purchase items to continue the process until you are able to achieve the results you desire should you be able to offer enough silver in exchange. Such a situation cannot be allowed into the game as it will and already has driven away players who had been told such a model would not be in our version of the game. Now while I do not fully understand the business decision, as I clearly was not present for such discussions, it seems to be such a disappointing and shameful business decision.

 

People have begun issuing chargebacks over this event because they feel it is a bait-and-switch in regards to earlier comments and promises stating such things would not be in our game. Now many have come forward saying that Daum originally stated that there would be no P2W model at the launch of the game, but does that make it acceptable to simply shift over to it once the game has been out for a few months and many players have acquired gear that is deemed best in slot? I believe this to not be justified, even if it is purely a business decision. Despite saying that I do not believe the people willing to issue chargebacks are entirely justified, but that is not for me to claim superior knowledge on either as it is, once again, a subjective matter. These turn of events have players on both sides of the aisle claiming their arguments to be the superior and many on the fence about it as well. The argument that it is unwarranted, unjust, etc. are valid to those who perceive them to be; just as the arguments that the “No-life children” or “Unemployed” are the only ones complaining are valid by those who perceive it to be so. Personally I fall under the former and disagree with the latter as many, who work, have a life, etc., do indeed play this game and would rather not see this game end up in such a state.

 

You can see such public outcry in the following forum posts:

 

http://forum.blackdesertonline.com/index.php?/topic/106524-should-bdo-cash-shop-items-be-available-for-purchase-sale-with-in-game-silver/

 

http://forum.blackdesertonline.com/index.php?/topic/106626-collective-attempt-at-preventing-p2w-in-bdo/

https://bdomaths.wordpress.com/2016/08/06/the-end-of-a-short-journey/

 

As well as an article on PC Gamer and other such websites noting such protests:

 

http://www.pcgamer.com/black-desert-online-players-protest-pay-to-win-changes-with-in-game-picket-signs/

http://massivelyop.com/2016/08/04/black-desert-players-explode-over-plan-to-allow-cash-shop-items-on-the-in-game-market/

https://dvsgaming.org/black-desert-online-turns-into-big-money-online/

 

And even a petition hoping to stop such events from occurring:

 

https://www.change.org/p/daum-games-stop-daum-games-from-changing-blackdesertonline-to-pay-to-win-model-with-cash-shop-items-being-listed-on-the-market?utm_medium=email&utm_source=notification&utm_campaign=new_signature

 

Now while I have tried to point out both sides of the argument and tried to restrain myself from being too heavy-handed in my opinion I fear that I have been unable to do so. As I stated at the very beginning of this piece this is a very personal issue for me, I do not wish to see this feature implemented into the game in any form. While I understand our thanks and good wishes do not pay your bills or feed your families I do not believe this the way to handle such matters. I urge you to reconsider this decision Kakao, Pearl Abyss, and all other participating entities. As for my fellow members of the community I urge you to not act in such a childish manner with slander, but instead condense your thoughts into a more constructive form so that they may be taken into account should they truly be listening to us. A thousand different posts on the topic do not carry as much weight as a few piercing voices aligned as one and we already have the platforms to make such voices heard. I wish you all well, no matter who you are or how this unfolds, and ask that this matter be handled in a professional manner if possible. Thank you for your time if you have read up until this point.

 

 

 

Sincerely,

 

                        General Mors 

 

Edited by General Mors
17 people like this

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Posted

A well-written post. Bravo to you good sir. 

1 person likes this

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Posted

Also I ask that @PM_Jouska and @CM_Aethon review this topic in addition to the information I'm sure you are already viewing in regards to this topic. Thank you for your time.

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Posted

No matter their response, this is a PR disaster, even if they don't proceed with the changes there's a lot of damage done already.

This is a really sad day for BDO and all of us who do genuinely love the game.

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Posted (edited)

The font is terrible for the screen btw. It's great for printed material, but Times New Roman sucks on screen. You want sans-serif fonts for the screen, such as the default Forums one, Arial, Verdana, etc.

 

Take it as constructive criticism.

No matter their response, this is a PR disaster, even if they don't proceed with the changes there's a lot of damage done already.

This is a really sad day for BDO and all of us who do genuinely love the game.

Brought forward by none other than the community who is reacting before they factually know what they are reacting to. The truth is the people who already reacted weren't gonna stick anyway, they were waiting for the chance of drama and they just jumped on the ship to blame their leave on Kakao.

Edited by Katsuragi
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Posted

Brought forward by none other than the community who is reacting before they factually know what they are reacting to. The truth is the people who already reacted weren't gonna stick anyway, they were waiting for the chance of drama and they just jumped on the ship to blame this on Kakao.

Please refrain from using stereotypes, there's not a single post in this forum where people don't, yet. Be the embodiement of the changes you wish.

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Posted

Why limit 5 !!!! I want no limit !!!!!!! How P2W true P2W !!!!! WTF

 
So many times cheated so now I want to be clear :-)

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Posted

a good thread! bump

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Posted (edited)

Please refrain from using stereotypes, there's not a single post in this forum where people don't, yet. Be the embodiement of the changes you wish.

I am. I am chilling and waiting to see what's coming. And then I'll judge.

Edited by Katsuragi

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Posted

Thank you for the input @Katsuragi I will change the font. I created this in Word as it was easier to format. Thank you for the other posts as well and likes. 

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Posted (edited)

The font is terrible for the screen btw. It's great for printed material, but Times New Roman sucks on screen. You want sans-serif fonts for the screen, such as the default Forums one, Arial, Verdana, etc.

 

Take it as constructive criticism.

Brought forward by none other than the community who is reacting before they factually know what they are reacting to. The truth is the people who already reacted weren't gonna stick anyway, they were waiting for the chance of drama and they just jumped on the ship to blame their leave on Kakao.

In my case this is not true, I seldom post in the forums and what I have posted have been in favor of the changes made.  Hell I even defended the Value Pack as borderline as that is.  I had no intention of leaving the game until I read the post this afternoon after seeing the blow up in channel chat.  This is in fact pretty damn shady business practices considering we were pitched a B2P model.  For those wondering why we're seeing this now read: http://theinvestor.koreaherald.com/view.php?ud=20160720001024

the article isn't that long but it does shed some light on the reasoning behind adding this now.

 

@ Op thank you
 

Edited by Whiskeysour
add

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Posted

Brought forward by none other than the community who is reacting before they factually know what they are reacting to. The truth is the people who already reacted weren't gonna stick anyway, they were waiting for the chance of drama and they just jumped on the ship to blame their leave on Kakao.

I agree a lot of people were already wavering beforehand but many others, including myself, who have never thought of leaving are now debating... I'll probably have to play casually instead of competitively which will eventually lead to quitting the game earlier than I expected.

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Posted (edited)

In my case this is not true, I seldom post in the forums and what I have posted have been in favor of the changes made.  Hell I even defended the Value Pack as borderline as that is.  I had no intention of leaving the game until I read the post this afternoon after seeing the blow up in channel chat.  This is in fact pretty damn shady business practices considering we were pitched a B2P model.  For those wondering why we're seeing this now read: http://theinvestor.koreaherald.com/view.php?ud=20160720001024

the article isn't that long but it does shed some light on the reasoning behind adding this now.
 

have you deleted items or refunded? it not, my comment states could be better phrased, but it's not directed at you.

I agree a lot of people were already wavering beforehand but many others, including myself, who have never thought of leaving are now debating... I'll probably have to play casually instead of competitively which will eventually lead to quitting the game earlier than I expected.

same for this one

 

As for me personally, I honestly believe it will help the economy and close gaps more than it hurts. But that doesn't mean I actually support the idea. I'm kinda whatever about it. It's not like we have the figures to make an informed judgement.

I'll wait and see. If the shit hits the fan, well, I'll just walk away.
 

Edited by Katsuragi

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Posted

have you deleted items or refunded? it not, my comment states it's not directed at you.

I have not refunded or deleted, but I will be uninstalling the game.  I bought the product and used it.  I am however pissed that I bought a new outfit this week for my giant which is pretty much money down the toilet now.

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Posted (edited)

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Posted

same for this one

I haven't, I have to be careful since I've spent a lot of time and money into this game.

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Posted

Great well written honest thread, SAVE BDO this change can not go live.

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Posted

Great well written honest thread, SAVE BDO this change can not go live.

Thank you, everyone is trying. Even some of the people trolling contribute some visibility to the threads honestly.

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Posted

To whom it may concern,

 

I am writing this letter in the hopes that it will have some sort of positive effect in relation to the current turn of events. I will attempt to keep this letter as objective as I possibly can, but I fear I will not be able to as this situation is very personal. As we are all very aware Kakao as well as Pearl Abyss have chosen to implement the ability to sell cash shop items via the market place. Understandably this has generated public outcry from the community who have, in large, been against such practices that would enable the ability to pay-to-win. Now while I do not speak for the entirety of our community I do believe it is my obligation to voice an opinion on this matter as many others have already.

 

Throughout the short lifespan of our version of the game we have experienced many changes, all of which are subject to opinion as to whether or not they were beneficial. As a community we have in large clashed with Kakao’s predecessor Daum EU over such matters both trivial and significant to the welfare of the game and its community. Time and again people have launched assaults against these events, both in a constructive and abusive manner; the same cycle can be witnessed during this time. Many have begun mounting protests against this upcoming change both within and outside of the game. Now while I do not agree shouting at them calling them names and vocalizing abusive comments is intelligent I do understand why they have chosen to react in such a way. As a community we had been led to believe there would be no P2W feature within our game; now this may be argued by those who deem the ghilie suit, value pack, sellable dyes, etc. P2W, but I have personally never found those to be that way and this particular discussion does not pertain to such matters. The addition of the ability to directly channel real currency into in-game currency, via cash shop items, is indeed P2W and is not what we want to have happen at all for a game many of us truly enjoy, despite its flaws. This change will severely damage the game as a whole and its effects can already be seen in game; players have begun offloading their most valuable gear because they plan to leave the game and see no further reason to play. Now while I’m certain many will say “Good riddance.” I do not believe this to be a proper reaction to such things. These people are players who have put effort into this game to achieve what they believe to be important. They enjoyed the game for what it was and strived to become top players. I myself am not amongst these top players, but I do strive to meet personal gear goals to one day compete against them on an even playing field. Many can and certainly do claim that there is nothing to “win” in this game, but that statement can be applied to nearly any facet of life. As an analogy consider the following: You and a fellow coworker work the same job with the exact same qualifications, talents, etc. and each of you aims for a promotion. Now assuming you both put in the same effort would it be fair if your coworker could simply buy their promotion? No, of course it wouldn’t be. Even though there is nothing to “win” aside from what we perceive to be important in such situations, you put in the effort to try and achieve that goal and to have someone supersede you in such a manner is both upsetting and unwarranted. Should we examine such an analogy we can see it’s like within BDO should this change come to pass. Players will be able to acquire the best gear near instantaneously via selling cash shop items for silver and either purchasing the gear via the auction house or the night vendor. This will have a direct impact on the games health as it is primarily a PvP game in which the player with the stronger gear will usually reign supreme and the player willing to pay real money in such a manner will have most likely have the stronger gear. Even the RNG presented in the enhancing process will not deter such events as you can easily purchase items to continue the process until you are able to achieve the results you desire should you be able to offer enough silver in exchange. Such a situation cannot be allowed into the game as it will and already has driven away players who had been told such a model would not be in our version of the game. Now while I do not fully understand the business decision, as I clearly was not present for such discussions, it seems to be such a disappointing and shameful business decision.

 

People have begun issuing chargebacks over this event because they feel it is a bait-and-switch in regards to earlier comments and promises stating such things would not be in our game. Now many have come forward saying that Daum originally stated that there would be no P2W model at the launch of the game, but does that make it acceptable to simply shift over to it once the game has been out for a few months and many players have acquired gear that is deemed best in slot? I believe this to not be justified, even if it is purely a business decision. Despite saying that I do not believe the people willing to issue chargebacks are entirely justified, but that is not for me to claim superior knowledge on either as it is, once again, a subjective matter. These turn of events have players on both sides of the aisle claiming their arguments to be the superior and many on the fence about it as well. The argument that it is unwarranted, unjust, etc. are valid to those who perceive them to be; just as the arguments that the “No-life children” or “Unemployed” are the only ones complaining are valid by those who perceive it to be so. Personally I fall under the former and disagree with the latter as many, who work, have a life, etc., do indeed play this game and would rather not see this game end up in such a state.

 

You can see such public outcry in the following forum posts:

 

http://forum.blackdesertonline.com/index.php?/topic/106524-should-bdo-cash-shop-items-be-available-for-purchase-sale-with-in-game-silver/

 

http://forum.blackdesertonline.com/index.php?/topic/106626-collective-attempt-at-preventing-p2w-in-bdo/

 

As well as an article on PC Gamer noting such protests:

 

http://www.pcgamer.com/black-desert-online-players-protest-pay-to-win-changes-with-in-game-picket-signs/

 

And even a petition hoping to stop such events from occurring:

 

https://www.change.org/p/daum-games-stop-daum-games-from-changing-blackdesertonline-to-pay-to-win-model-with-cash-shop-items-being-listed-on-the-market?utm_medium=email&utm_source=notification&utm_campaign=new_signature

 

Now while I have tried to point out both sides of the argument and tried to restrain myself from being too heavy-handed in my opinion I fear that I have been unable to do so. As I stated at the very beginning of this piece this is a very personal issue for me, I do not wish to see this feature implemented into the game in any form. While I understand our thanks and good wishes do not pay your bills or feed your families I do not believe this the way to handle such matters. I urge you to reconsider this decision Kakao, Pearl Abyss, and all other participating entities. As for my fellow members of the community I urge you to not act in such a childish manner with slander, but instead condense your thoughts into a more constructive form so that they may be taken into account should they truly be listening to us. A thousand different posts on the topic do not carry as much weight as a few piercing voices aligned as one and we already have the platforms to make such voices heard. I wish you all well, no matter who you are or how this unfolds, and ask that this matter be handled in a professional manner if possible. Thank you for your time if you have read up until this point.

 

 

 

Sincerely,

 

                        General Mors 

 

Well said sir. Couldnt had put it better myself. As a potential player, guess I will use my guest pass and wait before I press the buy button or not...kind.of a turn off seing huge amount of ppst about p2w.

Daum, reconsider this. In NA/EU p2w is frowned upon.

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Posted

Well said sir. Couldnt had put it better myself. As a potential player, guess I will use my guest pass and wait before I press the buy button or not...kind.of a turn off seing huge amount of ppst about p2w.

Daum, reconsider this. In NA/EU p2w is frowned upon.

Thank you.

Also my apologies on all of the edits everyone. Changing the font to a more visually pleasing one that is easier to read.

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Posted

In my case this is not true, I seldom post in the forums and what I have posted have been in favor of the changes made.  Hell I even defended the Value Pack as borderline as that is.  I had no intention of leaving the game until I read the post this afternoon after seeing the blow up in channel chat.  This is in fact pretty damn shady business practices considering we were pitched a B2P model.  For those wondering why we're seeing this now read: http://theinvestor.koreaherald.com/view.php?ud=20160720001024

the article isn't that long but it does shed some light on the reasoning behind adding this now.

 

@ Op thank you
 

Read the article... the things people do to get what they want lol. They're affecting a lot of people. Not sure why a company like Kakao would be a success if they step on people to get what they want. That's not the way to do things.

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Posted

A well written statement, OP. And hands down the best thread about this so far.

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A well written statement, OP. And hands down the best thread about this so far.

Thank you, I greatly appreciate your comment.

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