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Anti-P2W is NOT just about the money

32 posts in this topic

Posted (edited)

"If you have a job, you shouldn't care about P2W"
This is such a shitty argument. I don't know which animal came up with this. Anyone with a half a brain could come up with a better argument. 
Yet, I keep seeing this crap over and over. 

3 other factors why people are against P2W 

1. People who grinded hard until now, their work becomes little to nothing.
This is an issue regarding sense of achievement & justice, not money. 

2. Why grind? Why fight for grind spots? When you can work extra shifts and make more silver?
This is a concern for the gaming experience. 

3. Daum claimed no P2W. They broke their promise.
This is an issue regarding trust.

Edited by α
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Posted

I have a job and if I wanted, could drop $150 a week to take advantage of this. This is about prinicipal, and I won't support a company that is as misleading and money grubbing as this company is. 

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Posted

facebook90 (2).jpg

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Posted

If for some reason koko decides to implement this even though ALOT of people are against it, then dont buy anything from the cash shop to market trade. 

Literary the only p2w aspect of this is if people buy the items. If no one buys the items from the market, the players who posted it just wasted $$.



Remember, someone has to buy the cash shop items in the market for it to become silver.

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Posted

You really don't have to defend yourself against such a weak argument as "you don't like p2w because you are poor" to begin with.
Just ignore people like that, there's nothing to gain from starting a discussion about this topic.

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Posted

This so much, what OP said. I could dump money if I want but it's wrong in my opinion to support something like this, I learned my lesson from back when I played Vindictus

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Posted

A point of concern is what this really leads to.

People say this isn't p2w. And maybe this isn't just yet, but it is a door way. This opens it up yup adding all those terrible p2w items into the game. Such as purchasing failstacks. 

You see that is the goal. Slip this in and make them happy it is just costumes and pets..... Awww how sweet of them. Then in a month BAM purchase failstakes. 

And if all this happens you can expect to see much worse before the end of the year. Because with all the rng they built this game to WANT a p2w model.

So keep fighting this. Don't stop because of you do.....PA certain won't.

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Posted

"If you have a job, you shouldn't care about P2W"
This is such a shitty argument. I don't know which animal came up with this. Anyone with a half a brain could come up with a better argument. 
Yet, I keep seeing this crap over and over. 

3 other factors why people are against P2W 

1. People who grinded hard until now, their work becomes little to nothing.
This is an issue regarding sense of achievement & justice, not money. 

2. Why grind? Why fight for grind spots? When you can work extra shifts and make more silver?
This is a concern for the gaming experience. 

3. Daum claimed no P2W. They broke their promise.
This is an issue regarding trust.

So now its not about the money??? So why are you posting at all, make up your mind.

 

2; why should you fight over a grind spot? I think most ppl just rush for 50+, and then think fighting over spots is the game, and winning node is the game. The node war is about 5% if even that of the game. I have enjoyed all my time playing, since its not a competition its relaxing. And Im just 50, we have small guild, we have done loads of adventures since we join this in mars. So you can play this game, how you want, but if you just focus on the end stuff. The game is pretty small for you, and the likes of you.

 

3; They actually said from the start that this might come. Did you not read that?

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Posted (edited)

1) My personal achievements are in no way diminished. I MYSELF worked hard to get to where I am in the game and I am proud knowing I put effort into that. If someone else got to where I am faster then I did, well good job to them! I don't feel any less secure in my sense of accomplishment. So If your personal sense of achievement is strictly tied to other players, than I feel sorry for you. As for justice, the **** are you even talking about?

2) Brilliant point, by this logic, why do anything in the game? When you can buy a bot and have it get you everything? I am quite happy with my gaming experience, I am having fun playing the game. Even more so knowing I don't have to shell out money every month to keep playing. Then again I'm a dreaded casual who enjoys taking their time and not rushing through everything trying to be the best of the best, and instead focus more on life skills and roleplaying. BOTH of which are core features of the game, not just PvP btw.

3) As for trust, yeah I suppose you might have a point depending on who you are. Personally I live in reality though and understand this is a business. It happens all. the. time. in the business world. Someone says x has no place in their business or whatever, but then. Gasp. things happen, details of which the common consumer has no right, nor privilege in seeing. For all we know Daum/kakao could have discussed things with PA and fought against the alleged P2W feature. We have no clue how it went or if it happened at all. At the end of the day PA controls the game, not the publisher, and for whatever reason they pushed this change. Call me a blind white knight or a brainless sheep all you want but I am content and I continue to trust in the Devs/Publisher who have at least to me provided a fun and enjoyable game to play, and introduced things that made my QoL better. is PA or Daum Perfect? not by any stretch of the imagination, but they are improving and communicating to us. Just because they are communicating something you don't want to hear doesn't mean they are not communicating with the playerbase.

 

Honestly the way i see it, it started with the Value Pack so many like to claim was testing the waters so to speak (even some people with lacking IQ even say it is a subscription model hah what a joke.) If the majority of the game's player base was so against P2W like the doom says and whiners are saying then they wouldn't have bought the Value Pack. The MOMENT any of those whiners bought the value pack and say they were forced into buying it to stay competitive, well they just threw all those values spoken of in the OP right out the window.

That didn't happen though, even with the people saying the Value Pack is P2W, and was them testing the waters on what we the community want...well you now see the results. IF the Value Pack truly was testing the waters so to speak, well the sales of that pack speak for themselves. This is all conjecture on my part granted, but if people want to blame anyone, blame the majority of the player base who bought the Value Pack which the forums were widely claiming as P2W and is a precursor to what we have now.

Money speaks louder than words. If you are so against P2W don't give PA your money. Your wallet is going to tell them you don't want this feature, louder than any tantrum on the forums ever will. More so given how toxic and cancerous this forum. Again, vote with your wallet, but I'll say it again if these anti-P2W whiners hold the values and beliefs in which the OP outline so close to their heart, even if everyone else bought P2W items off the cashshop it wouldn't matter. Well...unless their so called values only amounted to a pile of dog ****.

So in closing, don't like what they are doing? vote with your wallet. It will be vastly more effective than throwing around threats and throwing a tantrum on the forums like a bunch of spoiled kids. Just because you are loud doesn't make you the majority. Nor does it make you right. You don't speak for me and you don't speak for everyone else, thank you very much.:P

Edited by Illuminia
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Posted

So now its not about the money??? So why are you posting at all, make up your mind.

 

2; why should you fight over a grind spot? I think most ppl just rush for 50+, and then think fighting over spots is the game, and winning node is the game. The node war is about 5% if even that of the game. I have enjoyed all my time playing, since its not a competition its relaxing. And Im just 50, we have small guild, we have done loads of adventures since we join this in mars. So you can play this game, how you want, but if you just focus on the end stuff. The game is pretty small for you, and the likes of you.

 

3; They actually said from the start that this might come. Did you not read that?

Do you own a strawman factory by any chance?

Notice words like "not just about the money" and "other factors (besides money)."
It should be pretty obvious I did not say money did not matter at all.

2. When did I ever claim you SHOULD fight for grind spots? Grind spot fighting is a form of pvp that many pvp players enjoy. 

3.
What they said was they may implant cash shop to ingame currency transaction. They however, said they would not implement any elements that are clearly p2w. 

Read my post at least 3x before posting next time.

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Posted

Agree, right now I'm free of the thought: "Grinding ingame nets me like 5€ worth of silvers..."

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Posted (edited)

If no one buys the items from the market, the players who posted it just wasted $$.

This more than likely will never happen. The boycotting is nice, but the wales don't care. The relationship between wales and the company is what will ultimately make this game have a very small population (like what happened with Lineage 2 and it going f2p/p2w).

Edited by Vardahoth

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Posted

"If you have a job, you shouldn't care about P2W"
This is such a shitty argument. I don't know which animal came up with this. Anyone with a half a brain could come up with a better argument. 
Yet, I keep seeing this crap over and over. 

3 other factors why people are against P2W 

1. People who grinded hard until now, their work becomes little to nothing.
This is an issue regarding sense of achievement & justice, not money. 

2. Why grind? Why fight for grind spots? When you can work extra shifts and make more silver?
This is a concern for the gaming experience. 

3. Daum claimed no P2W. They broke their promise.
This is an issue regarding trust.

1. It means little to nothing anyway. it is a game afterall not life. 

2. because you enjoy the game. 

3. see other posts about what they said at release. 

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Posted

1. People who have every single item bought from silver gained from selling cash shop items will still have to grind.  Levels aren't sold in the cash shop.  Even if you have +50% XP scrolls, +8% XP food, and +10% cash shop costumes leveling 56-60 is a nightmare grind.  More over, most people who make that grind will end up with a lot of money regardless of how much money they spend in the cash shop so selling items becomes fairly redundant.

2. All the money in the world doesn't make +19/20 easier to enchant.  The chance to get +19/20 is incredibly low.  Me spending a few hours extra a week at work (not that my place of business would ever just let me freely work overtime lol) doesn't mean I'm going to guaranteed get better gear than someone who RNG lucks into it.  Nor does having all the money in the world make boss armor more available.  If I'm at work and Bheg spawns, that's a chance I missed at gloves dropping for me.  Boss armor is extremely rare in our version.

3. The problem with this assertion is there's no common definition for what is and what isn't p2w.  In Kakao's eyes this could still not be considered p2w even if you or majority of players think it is.  Reality is they probably just wanted to implement a system where everyone wins.  Kakao gets money from people who buy items.  People who buy items get some silver.  People who couldn't afford items now can pay silver to get items.  Everyone wins.  Instead everyone focuses on that one player who buys items and creates this unrealistic scenario where everyone will be forced to buy/sell items to stay competitive ignoring the point that if everyone was selling then no one would be buying.

Really, it's dumb and people are over-reacting.  But if people want to pretend they will find a less p2w title out there go for it.  I quit BDO in May and came back because honestly there isn't shit out there for games right now.

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Posted

Do you own a strawman factory by any chance?
Notice words like "not just about the money" and "other factors (besides money)."
It should be pretty obvious I did not say money did not matter at all.

2. When did I ever claim you SHOULD fight for grind spots? Grind spot fighting is a form of pvp that many pvp players enjoy. 

3.
What they said was they may implant cash shop to ingame currency transaction. They however, said they would not implement any elements that are clearly p2w. 

Read my post at least 3x before posting next time.

No they said they will not impliment this at the start/launch of the game.

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Posted (edited)

1. People who have every single item bought from silver gained from selling cash shop items may not have to grind.  Levels aren't sold in the cash shop yet.  When you have +350% XP scrolls, +8% XP food, and +10% cash shop costumes leveling 56-60 wont be a grind.  More over, most people who make that grind will end up with very little money so selling items becomes extremely important.

2. All the money in the world doesn't make +19/20 easier to enchant, but buying failstacks does.  The chance to get +19/20 is incredibly easy.  Me spending a few hours extra a week at work (not that my place of business would ever just let me freely work overtime lol) does mean I'm guaranteed to get better gear than non paying customers.  Having all the money in the world grants boss armor.

#thefutureofbdo

Edited by 2Cents

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Posted (edited)

 

Do explain how one can get +350% exp. via cash shop

Costume = 10%

Value pack = 10%
50% scroll = cash shop  Loyalty.
4 pets = 12% 
How do I get the other 330% via cash shop? This is actually information everyone needs to know. Let us know.

Edited by XLucaX

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Posted

"If you have a job, you shouldn't care about P2W"
This is such a shitty argument. I don't know which animal came up with this. Anyone with a half a brain could come up with a better argument. 
Yet, I keep seeing this crap over and over. 

3 other factors why people are against P2W 

1. People who grinded hard until now, their work becomes little to nothing.
This is an issue regarding sense of achievement & justice, not money. 

2. Why grind? Why fight for grind spots? When you can work extra shifts and make more silver?
This is a concern for the gaming experience. 

3. Daum claimed no P2W. They broke their promise.
This is an issue regarding trust.

1) They were playing the game they enjoyed. We hard working folks here are WORKING in real life to have income. Their time isn't a waste as they enjoyed what they were doing. Working means you're forced to do if you want to get income. Can't compare working in real life to playing a video game and say their "work" becomes nothing.

2) Because not everyone has time to grind for 8+ hours. The game is supposed to be fun for everyone, not to someone who is employed. $$$$ = everything (whether real life or a game). Don't worry, working that extra shifts at McDonalds won't get you enough to catch up to people who have good jobs. Argument invalid.

3) They never claimed no P2W. Even in the topic of PM Diary they mentioned they could put cash shop items sellable ingame at a later time. And please don't refer to interviews as your source as one person doesn't speak on behalf of the company. The interviewee staff was being intimated by the interviewers and hundreds of BDO players at that time. Official statement is what that matters.

Try again, friend.

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Posted

"If you have a job, you shouldn't care about P2W"
This is such a shitty argument. I don't know which animal came up with this. Anyone with a half a brain could come up with a better argument. 
Yet, I keep seeing this crap over and over. 

3 other factors why people are against P2W 

1. People who grinded hard until now, their work becomes little to nothing.
This is an issue regarding sense of achievement & justice, not money. 

2. Why grind? Why fight for grind spots? When you can work extra shifts and make more silver?
This is a concern for the gaming experience. 

3. Daum claimed no P2W. They broke their promise.
This is an issue regarding trust.

1. Achievement and justice are personal areas that are different topics and of different importance to each person. They have little to do with anything when money and business comes into play. Also the people who grinded out gear and money STILL HAVE SAID GEAR AND MONEY, they lost nothing, nor is it reduced to nothing in anyway except maybe mentally....which isn't the point of having BiS gear anyways.

2. Because you actually need silver in the first place, to buy the items being put up on the market. Because there's still a grind wall you have to do to PvP/survive in new areas. Because awakening weapons are locked to level 56. Because skill points are gained through grinding. Because character level actually matters due to how accuracy/evasion is handled in this game.

3. Promises are nice to keep but again, refer to #1. Its a personal issue that is of different opinion to everyone. Also they did TECHNICALLY keep their promise as they said only during launch phase they would not allow CS items on the market.

 

2 of these things are opinions and have really nothing to do with anything in long run. The third is a really weak argument as you have to grind regardless of cash shop whaling or not.

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Posted

Yeah number one is an entitlement issue, lets be for real. People who got all their gear up to now earned it. Nothing can change that. I made 2 duo blue coral earings that when they were worth 5 mil each. Now each earing is worth half that. Did that invalidate my progress....no.

On top of it all, the work is still being done. The cashshop is not creating silver, the players are creating silver. The cash shop is just introducing another good to exchange on the market. The work is still being done by someone some where. You just dont like that the grind can be passed off. 

This change does not hurt anyone. The grind cannot be replaced. Some one has to grind for the items. People still need to gather. RNG is still gonna kick most peoples butt.

Honestly when i see people blowing up tri->tet or w/e and claiming to quit, all it shows me is someone who doesn't want more geared players to compete against and are scared of competition. if most people end up with tri armor and weapons(which is more than likely gonna happen) its just creating equal footing for pvp. 

Im a hardcore grinder with plenty of silver boss armor and what not. I welcome the change to allow other players that are probably decent at pvp but lack gear to compete and bring new life to pvp. 

 

 

 

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Posted

 

Great.

While you're handing out predictions and telling fortunes can you also tell me the lottery ticket numbers for tonight?

Nothing you suggested is available in any other version of BDO.  You have no basis for why those things are a possibility.

Please, quit the game.  Take your p2w crying to the next p2w game and then the one after that and the one after that.

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Posted (edited)

1) They were playing the game they enjoyed. We hard working folks here are WORKING in real life to have income. Their time isn't a waste as they enjoyed what they were doing. Working means you're forced to do if you want to get income. Can't compare working in real life to playing a video game and say their "work" becomes nothing.

2) Because not everyone has time to grind for 8+ hours. The game is supposed to be fun for everyone, not to someone who is employed. $$$$ = everything (whether real life or a game). Don't worry, working that extra shifts at McDonalds won't get you enough to catch up to people who have good jobs. Argument invalid.

3) They never claimed no P2W. Even in the topic of PM Diary they mentioned they could put cash shop items sellable ingame at a later time. And please don't refer to interviews as your source as one person doesn't speak on behalf of the company. The interviewee staff was being intimated by the interviewers and hundreds of BDO players at that time. Official statement is what that matters.

Try again, friend.

Do you know what an argument is? Okay, lets suppose it is an inductive argument. Did you call an inductive argument invalid? 
I don't think you know what that word means. Philosophically and scientifically. 
Yes, majority of BDO players love EVERY aspect of BDO. Especially waiting for relic scroll boss to summon. So exciting. 
So people who "work" at NPO for nothing isn't really work? Dude.. you should stop already. 

The point of the thread was that there are reasons beyond money as to why some are anti-P2W. Whether you feel this is "valid" or not doesn't falsify people's perception.
I mean I thought this shit was obvious from the title and the word "factor." 
Also I did not support any of these "arguments" with premises. 

Read what argument & validity means again, friend. Then try again. 
You slander McDonald workers, yet your education level seems lower than the lowest of the McDonald workers. 

Edited by α

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Posted

Do you know what an argument is? Okay, lets suppose it is an inductive argument. Did you call an inductive argument invalid? I don't think you know what that word means. Philosophically and scientifically. 
Yes, majority of BDO players love EVERY aspect of BDO. Especially waiting for relic scroll boss to summon. So exciting. 
So people who "work" at NPO for nothing isn't really work? Dude.. you should stop already. 

The point of the thread was that there are reasons beyond money as to why some are anti-P2W. Whether you feel this is "valid" or not doesn't falsify people's perception.
I mean I thought this shit was obvious from the title and the word "factor." 
Also I did not support any of these "arguments" with premises. 

Read what argument & validity means again, friend. Then try again. 

The only thing I argued was your points you made and you went on babbling with this nonsense reply. The defeat is real here. Try again, friend.

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Posted

The only thing I argued was your points you made and you went on babbling with this nonsense reply. The defeat is real here. Try again, friend.

I'm sorry I did not realise you were an outlier in the distribution of intelligence. No wonder what I wrote sounded like babbling. 

This is my defeat indeed. 

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I'm sorry I did not realise you were an outlier in the distribution of intelligence. No wonder what I wrote sounded like babbling. 

This is my defeat indeed. 

Don't bother arguing with Seinfeld or Kramer.. it is some low IQ troll

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