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Original Cash Shop post changed


34 posts in this topic

Posted (edited)

So, I like to make videos about Black Desert.  Yesterday, after Jouska's announcement, I made a quick vid about the changes to the cash shop, just to ensure my tiny little Youtube audience was aware of the updates and knew what to expect going forward.  Because of that, I had screenshots of Jouska's original post regarding the Cash4Gold changes.  My husband just pointed out that the message that's now available is not the original message.  It says it was edited "to deliver and clarify the intention better" but the information now available is actually more vague.  The original message (first image) lists specifically when the changes will be made (the next maint), and what, exactly, will be available for resale (VP, costumes, outfits, and pets).  The new post gives a nebulous timeline ("over the next series of updates") and no longer specifies what items are going to be available for resale.  

If you're "clarifying" your message, why is it less specific now than the previous one?  

TL;DR: Shady alteration of original Cash4Gold info leaves door open for additional items to be resold on Marketplace.

Jouska.jpg

Jouska post 2.jpg

 

 

Edited by Efitall
Added video link, just in case any one wants to watch it.
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Posted (edited)

Considering Daum has a history of poorly communicating their intentions and are constantly clarifying. I don't see this as shady or out of the ordinary. They have to go back and edit or clarify almost every single patch announcement, especially with a community as volatile as this one.

Edited by Nimalla
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Posted

To me this change means that its possible next week we wont have ALL the originally listed items available for sale and that some will come later. That is all.

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Posted

Lol "Other pearl items." Pretty sure this means that they're planning on adding other things that will be sellable on the marketplace such as weight limits,inventory expansions and the dreaded Valk's cry.

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Posted

 It says it was edited "to deliver and clarify the intention better" but the information now available is actually more vague.  

 

If it wasn't abundantly clear by them trying to frame this as an effort to make cash shop items accessible to people who can't pay...

It's because the entire thing is being presented in a dishonest way to begin with. They're pissing on us and telling us it's rain.

I'd have a lot more respect for the move if they didn't try to sugarcoat it with such obvious horse pucky and play it off like this is for the good of the community and not because they are trying to expand their profit.

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Yeah, I think they made it more vague meaning that they are not sure about it now because many MANY people disagree withg them. I think Pearl Abyss is pushing them into implementing this and they dont want to do that themselves. If you listened to many interviews they had they said they are not fans of many questionably P2W features that Pearl Abbys is making them do.

 

Hopefully they are reconsidering this.

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Posted

Considering Daum has a history of poorly communicating their intentions and are constantly clarifying. I don't see this as shady or out of the ordinary. They have to go back and edit or clarify almost every single patch announcement, especially with a community as volatile as this one.

I say "shady" because the "clarification" post was actually less clear.  They removed specifics and deadlines, thereby communicating less information than they originally did.  

To me this change means that its possible next week we wont have ALL the originally listed items available for sale and that some will come later. That is all.

Giving them the benefit of the doubt, sure, it could definitely mean that.  It could also mean they're adding additional items to the list, or that they know this won't be the only cash shop change coming down the pipes in the next month or so.  Unfortunately, because of the way they've handled both this and the Value Packs, I'm inclined to believe the later, instead of the former.

If it wasn't abundantly clear by them trying to frame this as an effort to make cash shop items accessible to people who can't pay...

It's because the entire thing is being presented in a dishonest way to begin with. They're pissing on us and telling us it's rain.

I'd have a lot more respect for the move if they didn't try to sugarcoat it with such obvious horse pucky and play it off like this is for the good of the community and not because they are trying to expand their profit.

I feel the same way.  I'm not particularly opposed to the Value Packs or Cash4Gold, but I do take issue with the way they've handled both releases.

Yeah, I think they made it more vague meaning that they are not sure about it now because many MANY people disagree withg them. I think Pearl Abyss is pushing them into implementing this and they dont want to do that themselves. If you listened to many interviews they had they said they are not fans of many questionably P2W features that Pearl Abbys is making them do.

 

Hopefully they are reconsidering this.

That's the thing... for every business, it's in their best interest to ensure their client is satisfied; for Daum, that's us (and we're obviously not - not most of us anyway).  I'm not saying they shouldn't move more towards a P2W/F2P model - not my company, not my call - but they way they're pushing forward, despite the dismay and anger demonstrated by their customer base, is a very strange way to do business.  

 

On top of that, trying to pass it off as though they're trying to do us a favor, as though the second wave of cash shop changes was somehow engineered in response to the VP outrage, is dishonest.  It's been coming for awhile, and you can tell it's always been coming by the way they've answered questions like this:

57a57329ed8d0_Jouska_didnt_answer_the_qu

 

Nobody's this careful with their wording, or this careful to not answer the question as it was asked, unless they know something the person asking the question doesn't.  This is from Februrary - they've known all along these changes were coming.  To claim otherwise is just flat dishonest on their part.  

  

 

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Posted

Due to the ruckus people have made, they may have not have everything available on the market like other people stated. If you notice he does say value packs. People were complaining about value packs prior and how difficult it was to get with loyalty. They may be doing a big rework

And about changes were coming, yes they were too obvious. For example they made outfits such as ghillie suits class specific within a recent patch even though they were non transferable

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Posted

I say "shady" because the "clarification" post was actually less clear.  They removed specifics and deadlines, thereby communicating less information than they originally did.  

Giving them the benefit of the doubt, sure, it could definitely mean that.  It could also mean they're adding additional items to the list, or that they know this won't be the only cash shop change coming down the pipes in the next month or so.  Unfortunately, because of the way they've handled both this and the Value Packs, I'm inclined to believe the later, instead of the former.

I feel the same way.  I'm not particularly opposed to the Value Packs or Cash4Gold, but I do take issue with the way they've handled both releases.

That's the thing... for every business, it's in their best interest to ensure their client is satisfied; for Daum, that's us (and we're obviously not - not most of us anyway).  I'm not saying they shouldn't move more towards a P2W/F2P model - not my company, not my call - but they way they're pushing forward, despite the dismay and anger demonstrated by their customer base, is a very strange way to do business.  

 

On top of that, trying to pass it off as though they're trying to do us a favor, as though the second wave of cash shop changes was somehow engineered in response to the VP outrage, is dishonest.  It's been coming for awhile, and you can tell it's always been coming by the way they've answered questions like this:

57a57329ed8d0_Jouska_didnt_answer_the_qu

 

Nobody's this careful with their wording, or this careful to not answer the question as it was asked, unless they know something the person asking the question doesn't.  This is from Februrary - they've known all along these changes were coming.  To claim otherwise is just flat dishonest on their part.  

  

 

Yep, just like he said: "All you need to do, is purchase a copy of the game (for instance by obtaining a pre-order package) and you can play as much as you want!"

And that has not changed one bit.  There are NO levels of subscription or any subscription at all needed to play this game.

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Posted (edited)

Yep, just like he said: "All you need to do, is purchase a copy of the game (for instance by obtaining a pre-order package) and you can play as much as you want!"

And that has not changed one bit.  There are NO levels of subscription or any subscription at all needed to play this game.

sub.thumb.jpg.211bf309f17c99e5e84a3f506d

Do you even know the definition of your words? Subscription has nothing to do with mandatory or optional. It simply means paying in advance for a benefit or service. Even if that benefit is "optional" and not needed. It still is a subscription.

Value Pack is a level of subscription you moron.

Source: I'm a Global Business Major and help companies with monetization models which includes many forms of subscriptions.

Edited by Aries
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Posted

Yep, just like he said: "All you need to do, is purchase a copy of the game (for instance by obtaining a pre-order package) and you can play as much as you want!"

And that has not changed one bit.  There are NO levels of subscription or any subscription at all needed to play this game.

That is correct - but that's not what he was asked.  He was asked, very specifically and in detail:

"Will their be a premium subscription?" 

 

The person then goes on to describe specifically what he means by "Premium subscription" as:

"$15 for extra benefits" 

 

Jouska didn't lie - you're right about that.  He was, however, intentionally misleading in the way he answered.  There's no scenario where the GM of an MMO in 2016 doesn't know the difference between a Sub and a Premium Sub, especially when it's described so clearly by the user asking the question.  Sorry, hun, gonna have to disagree with you on this one.

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Oh look its Efi again, being all rational and pointing out good things...stop that, you'll rile up the fanboys!

(I'm out too btw, after siege probably :P See ya in the next game effaroo!)

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Posted

That is correct - but that's not what he was asked.  He was asked, very specifically and in detail:

"Will their be a premium subscription?" 

 

The person then goes on to describe specifically what he means by "Premium subscription" as:

"$15 for extra benefits" 

 

Jouska didn't lie - you're right about that.  He was, however, intentionally misleading in the way he answered.  There's no scenario where the GM of an MMO in 2016 doesn't know the difference between a Sub and a Premium Sub, especially when it's described so clearly by the user asking the question.  Sorry, hun, gonna have to disagree with you on this one.

this ^

they know EXACTLY what we're asking and they've known since day one. I'm tired of this "playing dumb" thing where people act like they aren't skating around the bush. They know exactly what we assume their words mean and if they manipulate us with their words we know that we were manipulated.

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Yeah, I think they made it more vague meaning that they are not sure about it now because many MANY people disagree withg them. I think Pearl Abyss is pushing them into implementing this and they dont want to do that themselves. If you listened to many interviews they had they said they are not fans of many questionably P2W features that Pearl Abbys is making them do.

 

Hopefully they are reconsidering this.

If anything, KR Kakao is pressuring them. PA has no say in how it's monetized.

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Posted

Also on the topic of this thread.

Every single BDO content creator I know and seen on YouTube and other websites are completely disgusted by this company's deceit and most of them are leaving the game. Even well established gaming websites are writing articles about this scam which is building a irreversible negative reputation by every social media outlet on the web.

I wouldn't focus too much of your content on BDO if you want your YouTube channel to grow. When majority of the community are protesting against deceit and false advertisement that's one red flag that you can overlook. But when other companies and sources of gaming information say the same thing you should definitely feel like your time and passion will be better served elsewhere to a game that deserves that energy. :)

I'm one of the first users to register on this forum and I experienced everything from the beginning from this company and every single interview/article they published. Most of it were fairy tales being told to children to believe they were real.

 

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Posted

sub.thumb.jpg.211bf309f17c99e5e84a3f506d

Do you even know the definition of your words? Subscription has nothing to do with mandatory or optional. It simply means paying in advance for a benefit or service. Even if that benefit is "optional" and not needed. It still is a subscription.

Value Pack is a level of subscription you moron.

Source: I'm a Global Business Major and help companies with monetization models which includes many forms of subscriptions.

Do you even know how to comprehend what he said?  He clearly was talking about subscribing to play the game.  Who's the moron?

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If anything, KR Kakao is pressuring them. PA has no say in how it's monetized.

What makes you so sure about that?

Do you even know how to comprehend what he said?  He clearly was talking about subscribing to play the game.  Who's the moron?

Values could be argued as being necessary to have the full game experience. To play without it is to play with a handicap.

Life isn't black and white. Just because something isn't *required* doesn't mean it isn't *necessary*.

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Do you even know how to comprehend what he said?  He clearly was talking about subscribing to play the game.  Who's the moron?

sub_2.thumb.jpg.af5486a723d3b57b99b64414

TRANSLATION: Brutex KNOWS the game is B2P. He is asking will the game "OFFFER" a Premium sub (15$) for EXTRA BENEFITS.

What word in this sentence shows he talking about subscribing to play the game? Extra benefits is EXTRA BENEFITS after purchasing the base game. Otherwise he would state is a subscription necessary to "PLAY THE GAME" instead of "EXTRA BENEFITS."

PM_Jouska, one of the employers who represents daum/kakao on forums. Clearly states they wont "OFFER ANY TYPE OF SUBSCRIPTION" which includes EXTRA BENEFITS.

I was literally online when this thread was created....

As for the answer to your question I'm sure everyone in this thread knows.

 

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Posted

It's kinda all downhill after ya have to start taking screenshots of "official announcements" to officially see if they remain official. Then they'll probably lock this thread, ban your ass, delete some comments, and report back to the developers - everything's fine, meng. Another day at the office. :/

Had plenty of fun, ain't got no regrets; but I'm really starting to think there will be regrets if I continue to support this "unprofessional behavior." 

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Posted

What makes you so sure about that?

Ask anyone in game development.

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Dis be why Roo has Icarus to calm down... tame my critters. Blow stuff up. I didn't have any illusions about DAUM and PA undermining us the whole time but I am dissapointed they did such a good job. Why they are slipping up this bad so soon is beyond me. The mastermind of the plan must have been hanged. 

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Jouska didn't lie - you're right about that.  He was, however, intentionally misleading in the way he answered.  There's no scenario where the GM of an MMO in 2016 doesn't know the difference between a Sub and a Premium Sub, especially when it's described so clearly by the user asking the question.  Sorry, hun, gonna have to disagree with you on this one.

He didn't lie, and neither did he intend on misleading anyone.

If you would read the rest of his post, he went on to talk about loggin in and such – that to me sounds like he read the post as: 'Do you need to purchase a monthly subscription in order to play?'.

 

sub_2.thumb.jpg.af5486a723d3b57b99b64414

TRANSLATION: Brutex KNOWS the game is B2P. He is asking will the game "OFFFER" a Premium sub (15$) for EXTRA BENEFITS.

What word in this sentence shows he talking about subscribing to play the game? Extra benefits is EXTRA BENEFITS after purchasing the base game. Otherwise he would state is a subscription necessary to "PLAY THE GAME" instead of "EXTRA BENEFITS."

PM_Jouska, one of the employers who represents daum/kakao on forums. Clearly states they wont "OFFER ANY TYPE OF SUBSCRIPTION" which includes EXTRA BENEFITS.

I was literally online when this thread was created....

As for the answer to your question I'm sure everyone in this thread knows.

 

I am sorry, I do not see where Jouska had said that they 'won't' offer any types of subscriptions?

'Does not' is not the same as 'will not'.

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Full agree Efi!

I honestly think they have no idea what is going to happen next week and we will just get a patch for the game and it will be blind.

<--- Devotion

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If anything, KR Kakao is pressuring them. PA has no say in how it's monetized.

Depends on how their contract is negotiated, I would assume.  Haven't been in game development, but have definitely been involved in software development and licensing.

 

 

<snip>

I wouldn't focus too much of your content on BDO if you want your YouTube channel to grow. When majority of the community are protesting against deceit and false advertisement that's one red flag that you can overlook. But when other companies and sources of gaming information say the same thing you should definitely feel like your time and passion will be better served elsewhere to a game that deserves that energy. :)

<snip>

 

That's the problem - even if I do feel like the publisher is being dishonest with their recent behavior, I still really love the game.  I'm not sure how much more BDO content I'll make - probably until the population goes upside down.  Definitely looking into other games now, where I wasn't before.

 

 

Do you even know how to comprehend what he said?  He clearly was talking about subscribing to play the game.  Who's the moron?

He was pretty clear that he was talking about a Premium Sub when used the term "Premium Sub" and then went further to describe it as "extra benefits".  

 

 

It's kinda all downhill after ya have to start taking screenshots of "official announcements" to officially see if they remain official. Then they'll probably lock this thread, ban your ass, delete some comments, and report back to the developers - everything's fine, meng. Another day at the office. :/

Had plenty of fun, ain't got no regrets; but I'm really starting to think there will be regrets if I continue to support this "unprofessional behavior." 

That's what's funny: I just happened to have the screenshot because of the announcement video I made.  I would never have even noticed it changed if it hadn't been pointed out to me by my husband.  I wasn't trying to watch and measure and make sure they were being up-front and honest in their communication.  It just sort of happened that there was a disparity, and that it's a pretty big one, and I still had the screenshot in a folder, and I hadn't deleted it after publishing (I usually do).  

I bet people start screen-capping GM posts going forward, though.

I certainly hope I don't get banned.  It would be an interesting turn of events, that's for sure.  

 

 

He didn't lie, and neither did he intend on misleading anyone.

If you would read the rest of his post, he went on to talk about loggin in and such – that to me sounds like he read the post as: 'Do you need to purchase a monthly subscription in order to play?'.

 

I am sorry, I do not see where Jouska had said that they 'won't' offer any types of subscriptions?

'Does not' is not the same as 'will not'.

Like I said, I can't imagine a scenario where the GM of an MMO in 2016 doesn't know the difference between a "Subscription" (required to log in) and a "Premium Subscription" (not required to log in, but gives vast in-game benefits).  That's just not possible.  He knew when he responded to that post that he wasn't answering the question that was asked.  

And you're right - he didn't say they won't offer any type of sub.  It's well within their rights as business owners to change their cash shop model in any way they see fit, for any reason, at any time.  I don't take issues with them doing whatever they need to in order to manage their business.  I do take issue with the way they're handling it.

 

 

Full agree Efi!

I honestly think they have no idea what is going to happen next week and we will just get a patch for the game and it will be blind.

<--- Devotion

I've heard people say they never know what's coming in the patches until they get them, then they have to rush to translate them before they install.  Seems like an awfully strange way to do business to me.  Hi Devo  :)

 

 

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Like I said, I can't imagine a scenario where the GM of an MMO in 2016 doesn't know the difference between a "Subscription" (required to log in) and a "Premium Subscription" (not required to log in, but gives vast in-game benefits).  That's just not possible.  He knew when he responded to that post that he wasn't answering the question that was asked.  

And you're right - he didn't say they won't offer any type of sub.  It's well within their rights as business owners to change their cash shop model in any way they see fit, for any reason, at any time.  I don't take issues with them doing whatever they need to in order to manage their business.  I do take issue with the way they're handling it.

Well, I still stand by what I said :).

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