• Announcements

    • IMPORTANT - REACH US IN THE NEW FORUM   05/04/2017

      Ladies and gentlemen ATTENTION please:
      It's time to move into a new house!
        As previously announced, from now on IT WON'T BE POSSIBLE TO CREATE THREADS OR REPLY in the old forums. From now on the old forums will be readable only. If you need to move/copy/migrate any post/material from here, feel free to contact the staff in the new home. We’ll be waiting for you in the NEW Forums!

      https://community.blackdesertonline.com/index.php

      *New features and amazing tools are waiting for you, even more is yet to come in the future.. just like world exploration in BDO leads to new possibilities.
      So don't be afraid about changes, click the link above and follow us!
      Enjoy and see you on the other side!  
    • WICHTIG: Das Forum ist umgezogen!   05/04/2017

      Damen und Herren, wir bitten um Eure Aufmerksamkeit, es ist an der Zeit umzuziehen!
        Wie wir bereits angekündigt hatten, ist es ab sofort nicht mehr möglich, neue Diskussionen in diesem Forum zu starten. Um Euch Zeit zu geben, laufende Diskussionen abzuschließen, könnt Ihr noch für zwei Wochen in offenen Diskussionen antworten. Danach geht dieses Forum hier in den Ruhestand und das NEUE FORUM übernimmt vollständig.
      Das Forum hier bleibt allerdings erhalten und lesbar.   Neue und verbesserte Funktionen warten auf Euch im neuen Forum und wir arbeiten bereits an weiteren Erweiterungen.
      Wir sehen uns auf der anderen Seite!

      https://community.blackdesertonline.com/index.php Update:
      Wie angekündigt könen ab sofort in diesem Forum auch keine neuen Beiträge mehr veröffentlicht werden.
    • IMPORTANT: Le nouveau forum   05/04/2017

      Aventurières, aventuriers, votre attention s'il vous plaît, il est grand temps de déménager!
      Comme nous vous l'avons déjà annoncé précédemment, il n'est désormais plus possible de créer de nouveau sujet ni de répondre aux anciens sur ce bon vieux forum.
      Venez visiter le nouveau forum!
      https://community.blackdesertonline.com
      De nouvelles fonctionnalités ainsi que de nouveaux outils vous attendent dès à présent et d'autres arriveront prochainement! N'ayez pas peur du changement et rejoignez-nous! Amusez-vous bien et a bientôt dans notre nouveau chez nous

BDO - Analysis of the current game mechanics and how P2W would affect them

74 posts in this topic

Posted (edited)

In a day and age where the whole gaming industry is fueled by greediness, Kakao needs to make a stand about the P2W issue.

 

Let's forget about the false advertisement regarding the pre-order horse. Let's forget about the nodewars delays. Let's forget about random stats. Let's forget about the time-exclusive Ghillie Suit refunds. Let's forget about the dyes. Let's forget about desyncs. Let's forget about the customer service. Let's forget about everything and focus on the current topic. Let's forget about the fact that this game is buy-to-play. Let's forget about previous statements regarding P2W. Let’s forget about all the management issues.

Let's forget everything and focus on the critical state the game is currently in.

 

Kakao Group is contractually bound to Pearl Abyss and publishes the game in NA and EU. Publishers are an integral part of the gaming industry, and their job is to make the product they’re selling shine above the competition. They have to answer their target market's needs and are the main link between the playerbase and the developers.

Some games have proven that a cash shop economy could work in a balanced way, and I'll take the example of EVE Online as it is, to this day, still one of the best games I have ever had the opportunity to play in terms of balance. They clearly don't have the same artstyle and game mechanics, but they share a whole lot of similarities in terms of content, as they are both MMORPGs, considered sandbox games, PvP-centered, and most importantly, are community-driven (alliances, wars, trading, factional warfare, area control). If the possibility of putting up cash shop items on the marketplace becomes a reality in BDO, both games will share another core value : the opportunity of getting ingame currency via real money transactions - further referred to as RMT for convenience.

 

Progression : Time investment & Rewards

 

EVE Online

On EVE Online, your character progresses by learning skills that need to be learned overtime. These skills are locked behind a time wall this wall can not be skipped by using RMT (few exceptions below)1. On top of that time based progression, the player needs to acquire ingame currency via the mediums he decides (mining, PvP, PvE missions, etc.) to fund his ships (gear). With that in mind, the player can lose his ship at any point and time from the moment he decides to undock and go explore the galaxy or engage in PvE/PvP situations. The skills learned by the character remain. The fact that the player can lose his ship has multiple psychological and economical effects on the whole community, the main ones being :

  • A lost ship represents ingame currency loss

  • Ingame currency loss represents time investment

  • Time is money, and money would represent ingame currency

With that in mind, the activities that require time investment are pretty balanced in terms of ingame currency/time invested. The sandbox nature of the game implies there's no set objective, but for a vast majority of the players, the endgoal is to be the best at something, be it exploration, miner, industry lord or even political leader. All these fields gravitate around a single thing : PvP. Let me explain.

 

Explorers find blueprints used by the industry-oriented players. Miners gather ore to sell them on the marketplace or use them. Industry-oriented players have fun by building ships. Traders buy and transport items accross the galaxy to sell them for profit. PvE players find enjoyment in killing and NPCs that drop ingame currency or valuable ship modules. PvP players spend time shooting down other players, making use all of the aforementioned elements to loot wrecks and get enjoyment from knowing they killed their opponents, creating a cycle that makes every single event something healthy for the community as a whole. Even if your ship got destroyed, that event is what is gonna keep the wheel spinning as a whole. If, someday, industry-oriented people would stop building ships, the whole system would be unstable and you would see a major shift in the community, as their enjoyment would be overshadowed by the fact that the time players invested on the game would have no real value and/or provide little to no reward.

 

At this point, I want to go back to the fact that ships can be destroyed and completely wiped off the server. This major element is what creates balance in the system and regulates the economy as a whole. More often than not, a ship loss requires the intervention of multiple players, be it in PvE scenarios or PvP scenarios. You will understand why this is important later on.

BDO

On BDO, progression is defined by four major elements aside from personal enjoyment :

  • Skillpoints

Skillpoints are bound to your character. The only way to acquire them is through killing mobs and can't be lost. They're used to learn skills and acquiring them requires players to invest time in the process.

 

  • Gear

Gear progression is mainly defined by the global amount of ingame currency players have acquired through their playtime and invested towards their gear. It is also heavily influenced by RNG. The randomness linked to gear progression is a core game mechanic, which means that by definition, it is possible for player A to get the same gear as player B in 100x less time.

 

  • Class knowledge / Game mechanics knowledge

Pretty obviously, a level 65 ranger will have more knowledge about his class (and all other classes) than a fresh 50 ranger. I won't elaborate further on this topic as I consider it's pretty obvious for anyone who knows how video games work. Both are acquired through time investment aswell.

 

  • Experience

Here, I want to use the word "experience" as in raw XP and not knowledge. You gain experience from pretty much anything in the game. The XP gained per hour varies greatly from one activity to another, the most effective one being killing monsters.

 

Now, these four elements are, aside from personal goals, the most important ones when it comes to character progression. They're, in a way, the "rewards" every single player is looking for in the long run. In its current state, the only activity that offers those four rewards at once is mob grinding. Every other activity in the game lacks either one or two elements of reward (PvP can't reward XP or skillpoints, lifeskills can't provide skillpoints, roleplaying won't reward any of them, etc.). The fact that mob grinding is the efficient way of acquiring those four rewards at once will be an important part of the thought process later on.

 

As said earlier in the EVE Online example, human nature makes people want to be the "best at something". Just like in EVE, every single event happening in the gameworld/server has an influence on the "endgoal", multiplayer interaction ; PvP, and that's whether you like it or not. Even the fisher selling his fish to the trade manager has an influence on the economy as a whole, and that's even there's noone else involved in the process. Why ? He's gonna have an influence on the trade manager, and the PvP player who is going to sell his fish to the same trade manager is going to have to deal with the lowered sale price. It sure has a very small impact, but it still has one, making the game multiplayer when you don't expect it to be. In comparison to EVE, this is why every single event in BDO has a multiplayer impact.

 

Comparison

Taking into account all the aforementioned points, we can now compare progression in both games. In EVE, your long-term progression can be done while you are doing an activity you enjoy, as in you can learn skills while goofing around in major hubs or explore the galaxy. This means your time investment can be minimal but you will still work towards the endgoal of “having all skills unlocked” while doing what you enjoy.

In BDO, the long-term progression can only be achieved efficiently via mob grinding, which means that every second not spent grinding is a second you lose against other players.

Another major element in BDO’s meta is the following ; a lesser geared player has little to no influence in PvP. In EVE Online, a character that has a lower amount of skills can still be effective in PvP, since the very large array of ships EVE offers is overall balanced. Everything has a counter, and skill plays an important part in the final outcomes. Ships are not indestructible and disappear from the economy once destroyed. The main issue with BDO is that gear will never disappear in PvP scenarios.

To go a bit further on the gear matter, what balances things out in EVE is the fact that multiplayer interaction is the main source of “gear/ships that disappear”. In BDO, the only person responsible for a loss of gear is the person who decides to gamble and take the risk of losing stats. One could reach a point where he is at 98% of his maximum potential and decide to stay there for an indefinite amount of time while still being relevant in PvP, because the majority of his opponents will be way below him. Even if that majority decides to take down that the almost best geared player by outnumbering him, the almost best geared player would never have to take critical decisions regarding his playstyle, since his safety is in his hands and not the community. There’s only one person involved in the process of losing his advantage, and it’s the player who decides to gamble his way through gear progression.

 

Gameworld - Size vs Worth

 

Both BDO and EVE share gameworlds that are, in their ways, vast. Before you click on the "Reply" button to tell me BDO is way smaller than EVE, keep on reading.

Yes, EVE's map is bigger, as in it takes you a lot more time to go from the top left to the bottom right of the map. With that in mind, EVE only has one server/realm. BDO has the same map, split amongst 12 different channels per server. Now, if you were to go from Trent to Valencia Castle 12 times in a row, I'm pretty sure it would take a long time, comparable to the time it would take you to go accross the map on EVE.

As we’ve seen before, if you consider your time as a resource, the only cost-effective way to achieve long-term progression is mob grinding. Even with a vast world, BDO only offers a few areas to make people feel like their time is “worth it”, and that’s an issue. Let’s take the current major grindspots (or should we call them efficient long-term progression areas) as a primary example.

Sausans, Pirates, Valencia Fogans, Crescent Shrine, Hasrah, Elrics, etc.

 

Those spots are highly sought after because they’re the ones that allow you to progress at a normalized rate, efficiently splitting the 4 elements of rewards we’ve covered earlier. Any other spot is either lacking one or two elements to make the players feel like the time they spend in those areas worthwhile. The issue with that meta is that the players are not being given incentives to grind in other spots aside from one or two elements of long-term progression. This concentrates people in areas that are highly contested, and the karma system is currently a completely obsolete system that, now, doesn’t balance things out. The XP loss in PvP was also a system that wasn’t working properly, and getting rid of it was a good decision.

 

Competition over grindspots and the Karma System

 

With that in mind, the last step towards fixing the PvP competition over spots that are the most valuable in terms of long-term progression has not been taken. Ways of fixing this issue in a balanced way have been proposed but largely ignored by the publisher and/or Pearl Abyss. From all of them, the most relevant ones were the following :

 

  • Introducing a cooldown on Node Respawn when dying in PvP - Best(?) solution

If the current system is the system Pearl Abyss wants to push forward, griefers are not being punished for their behaviour. The karma of the players protecting the valuable spot will go down way faster than what it takes for the players trying to take over to come back. Guild wars aren’t effective on players who are not affiliated to guilds and or are in PvE guilds.

The introduction of a cooldown on Node Respawn upon dying in PvP would make sure that the people trying to defend have enough time to build karma back.

Players with higher progression should indeed be able to have an easier time securing the most valuable spots. With the current system, those players don’t get rewarded for spending time and effort towards their endgoal, as spots are easy to grief and it spoils their experience. Due to its open-world nature, BDO needs to be able to make more dangerous spots feel rewarding, and currently fails to do so, as anybody can come and try to skip the whole “route” the game is built around by griefing players who should feel rewarded for their time investment.

 

From a technical point of view, the cooldown should be implemented in a balanced way. An example would be that the cooldown doesn’t kick in before the third PvP death in a 10 minutes timeframe, and additional deaths after the fourth death should add 2 minutes to the Node Respawn cooldown. The cooldown should not be implemented in nodewars/siegewars and should disappear after 20 minutes spent alive, without dying in PvP. Of course, this would need further balancing.

Increasing the max karma cap with and/or introducing diminishing karma losses - Good solution

Pretty self-explanatory, would work well with the current system. Similarly to the cooldown system, killing a griefer over and over again would not spoil the game experience of the player defending his spot as much as with the current system.

 

  • Getting rid of the karma system if the player killed is 2 levels below the killer - Mild Solution

Pretty straightforward but subject to issues. Between level 45 and 56, I think such a system would be working quite well. The main issue here is the fact that a fresh 64 has, overall has acquired and invested a lot less silver than a 64.80%.

 

  • Getting rid of the karma system if the difference in combined AP/DP of players involved is above 70 - Poor/Mild Solution

It would fix the issue between levels 64.00% and 64.80% but it would bring in a ton of issues aswell. Would karma losses be involved if 8 players attack 2 players ? If 4 of the attacking players are within the 70AP/DP range, would the other 4 get the karma losses aswell ? It would be hell to balance things out in such scenarios. With that being said, the current system, with flat losses, shows that Pearl Abyss is/was not willing to go through the pain of trying to balance things out.

 

Introducing the ability to sell cash shop items on the marketplace

 

Geo-economical reasoning behind BDO releases

After such a lengthy analysis of the current ingame and metagame mechanics of BDO, I think it’s time for me to show what impact it has had on the previous releases (KR/RU/JP) and what impact it will have on the EU/NA releases.

 

First of all, everybody knows that Pearl Abyss and Kakao are companies registered for profit. They’re not charities, and they’re not entities subsidies by their respective governments. They are backed up by investors, and need to compete against other companies. I always like to use the “PvP metaphor” when talking about companies involved in the gaming industry. They are trying to be better than their competition while using their assets to their fullest in order to stay relevant. Sure, the game yielded profit over the past five months of EU/NA release. Since the numbers are not public, I can not articulate numbers, but with allegedly over one million copies sold for EU/NA within six months of launch, we can legitimately think the turnover is somewhere between 50 and 100 millions USD, if not more. Now, that is great for a launch, but if both companies are serious about the product “they put on the shelves”, they want to stick around and stay relevant for a few years to the very least. In order to make sure they can, they need to find ways of keeping up against the competition.

 

The cash shop, already present in previous releases, is a pretty straight-forward solution to maintain a healthy cash flow when you don’t plan on making expansions B2P. Making the game B2P in the first place is also a decent way of doing so. With the current state of games in EU/NA, it’s also a good way of making sure that the goldsellers and/or botters are out of the game as much as possible. Combining both seemed a bit overkill and shady to some people within the community, ranging from players to news outlets, but you need to keep in mind that keeping that the costs of maintaining games afloat in EU/NA are higher than KR/RU/JP. Why ?

 

The playerbase is large, the network infrastructure is not on par with KR/JP’s infrastructures, the cost of living for EU/NA employees is higher, etc. All these factors have an impact on the business plans companies decide to adopt for certain regions. For example, F2P can be justified in JP/KR since they have very good infrastructures and moderate costs of living, while their target market have incomes that allow them to spend money on the cash shop. In RU, the situation is a bit different : the infrastructure is not as good as KR/JP, but the costs of living are lower. This balances things out in terms of costs, but the target market has a lower available income, which means that F2P was a pretty obvious choice. On another note, you will notice that most games targetted to the RU market are either F2P or cheaper, for the same reason. This just goes to show that for EU/NA, B2P + cash-shop was the most obvious choice.

 

With that being said, in EU/NA, the overall available income of the target market is higher, which means that I would not be surprised if the average amount of money spent per active player in EU/NA was higher than RU/KR/JP for the same period of time (5 months after launch).

 

Capped convenience vs Unlimited convenience

 

Now, if my reasoning is correct (and it should be), this means that EU/NA players will be more likely to use RMT to get silver than RU/KR/JP, effectively earning both companies involved more money over the same period of time. With that in mind, it will create a huge gap between players that do not wish to use RMT and players that do in terms of long-term progression. Players will be able to buy one of the four main elements of long-term progression the game offers with money thus making them able to get the remaining three at a faster rate. This is already the case with costumes and pets, yes, but there’s a cap. There’s currently no way for us to stockpile on costumes and get 10% combat XP for each costume in the Pearl Inventory. This means there is a limit to the maximum amount of money we can spend for convenience items. Introducing a weekly cap on the amount of money we can spend to get silver will break that “maximum amount” logic and thus break the whole convenience meta. MMORPGs are not your typical “8h of gameplay + DLC” AAA title, they’re meant to stay relevant for years. Comparatively, that weekly cap makes, in my opinion, little to no sense. 5 items a week means 5 costumes worth roughly 30€ each. This means 600€+ a month. A very small percentage of players will be able to afford to spend this much, and they will absolutely wreck the rest of the playerbase by bruteforcing through the RNG nature of the game with RMT. These players will have an unfair advantage, and the open-world nature of the game will make them near impossible to beat.

 

In order to illustrate that, the players who use RMT will be able to defend their spots over any non-RMT player and thus spoiling their experience of the game. Now, let’s imagine those players team up and decide to create one or two guilds. Those 100-200 players, on top of being able to control spots, will be able to control the global economy and territories. Since there is no way to make a player lose his gear without his consent, there is no way the rest of the playerbase can have a significant impact on those RMT players. Where EVE Online achieved the hard task of balancing RMT vs Time Investment by giving players the ability to enjoy any activity while still making efficient long-term progress, BDO has and will break the only activity that rewards that. Respectively, the playerbase from each BDO release has shrunk, and this is most likely not due to the fact that the people don’t enjoy the game. Efficient time investment has been replaced by money, impacting the whole meta of BDO.

 

The playerbase makes the game what it is

 

As much as developers and publishers try to push updates and/or content, the community is what makes the game what it is, be it on the live servers, livestreams, forums or personal circles. Companies can have the most incredible product on the face of Earth, if their product doesn’t fill any need, they’re not gonna sell it. At this point, BDO is an incredible MMORPG that provides a decent experience for people who want to play a KR MMO, without the typical KR cash grab P2W stuff. Up until now, BDO was and still is in my top 3 MMOs of all time, the other ones being EVE Online for the nearly-perfectly balanced experience, and Aion (gosh, the pre-Gameforge memories).

 

Do you really think the current community will stick around if BDO turns into what every other exported KR MMO is ? People who joined and backed the game up to this point were here for the content, the PvP, the scene... the game for what it is. It is (was?) something different, fresh, interesting, a unique game that was different from the competition. And now, we’ve reached a point where BDO will most likely join the ranks of “P2W MMOs” for good.

 

Conclusion

Whatever happens in the following week(s) will set a precedent for both Kakao and Pearl Abyss, maybe even the MMORPG industry as a whole considering Black Desert Online’s success as a KR MMO exported to EU/NA.

 

Outcome #1 : Kakao makes a stand for the community and refuses the P2W push

 

As I said earlier, Kakao is contractually bound to Pearl Abyss and is here to market the game in EU/NA. With that in mind, Kakao can decide to set a precedent and face the developers’ will to drastically change the experience the game provides for EU/NA players. This will most likely end up in a contractual breach and result in people getting laid off and/or leaving the company. Worst case scenario, Pearl Abyss revokes Kakao’s rights to publish the game in NA/EU or any other region and the game goes down until Pearl Abyss finds another publisher willing to accept the contract and deal with a shattered community.

 

Outcome #2 : Kakao agrees to push P2W to NA/EU

 

The game will suffer heavy losses in terms of playerbase. With that in mind, it might not end up in financial losses since the P2W push could lead to a status quo in terms of money spent/active player. The experience will still be heavily impacted by the P2W push, and the earnings will gradually decline. Look at what happened to Wildstar, when the community left after months of complaints blatantly ignored by the people responsible of the game (character-bound cash shop items, P2W RNG boxes, lack of endgame content).

 

Up to this day, I don’t know of any exported KR MMO that still is up to par with the competition in terms of content and/or MMO experience. Sure, whales keep the boat afloat, but for how long will these whales stick around ?

 

This will set a precedent, and the majority of the playerbase will remember it. They will end up dodging games that have the “Kakao” or “Pearl Abyss” tag altogether. I, for one, have stopped buying games that are in any way linked to NCsoft or EA.

 

Outcome #3 : Pearl Abyss realizes that P2W is not the way to go for EU/NA

 

They don’t push P2W live and focus on making the game better than the competition by pushing forward content. The current playerbase stays, and keeps playing the game, supporting the companies involved with cash shop purchases as they did up to this point. The playerbase keeps on growing. After all, what I said about the playerbase making the game whaet it is is not entirely true. The content actually has a huge impact on how many people are actively p(l)aying.

 

Last words

 

This is in no way a complaint about what is planned for this P2W push. I simply wanted to lay my thoughts on the matter on paper, and I tried to write it while keeping an objective point of view. I hope some people will take the time to read it and hopefully share this can help you build your own and opinion aswell.

 

This is all I have to say about it. Wait and see.

 

You can catch me live on Twitch at http://twitch.tv/Karmek or on Twitter at https://twitter.com/Karmektv where I will be more than happy to see you :) In the meanwhile, please enjoy the time you spend on BDO, at least for now.

 

Cya !

 

PS : I am still proofreading the post and will most likely edit it to fix the grammar/typos I see.

 
Edited by Karmek
43 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Not reading that shit.. But They don't have to make a stand. They need to make money. 

 

 They are not a non-profit agency 

2 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Not reading that shit.. But They don't have to make a stand. They need to make money. 

 

 They are not a non-profit agency 

Yeah, if you're not gonna read, don't jump on your keyboard, because I'm addressing this topic...

23 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

So you're comparing BDO to EVE in order to make your point? Sweet, this will be easy.

Vindictus is more P2W, Flyff is more P2W, Mabinogi is more P2W and Tera is more P2W; ergo BDO is not P2W! Using your "logic" of course. :) 

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Yeah, if you're not gonna read, don't jump on your keyboard, because I'm addressing this topic...

Dude.. Nobody will read this. xD

2 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

So you're comparing BDO to EVE in order to make your point? Sweet, this will be easy.

Vindictus is more P2W, Flyff is more P2W, Mabinogi is more P2W and Tera is more P2W; ergo BDO is not P2W! Using your "logic" of course. :) 

I'm not sure I got your point.

Dude.. Nobody will read this. xD

Except for the people who will, and I'd rather discuss the matter with people who took the time to read it than the typical "lul bdo p2w i quit ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) " stuff.

4 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Karmek apply for the The Guardian journalist :S

8 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

uh..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

I read most of it. The main feeling that I get after all that time spent....

 

I like tacos.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

 

An important lesson on essays:

Essays should be like a skirt. Long enough to cover everything, short enough to keep it interesting.

8 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

I think your post was very well written, albeit a bit long for most people to read. As someone who's had a hard time taking in which side to stand on, I think you provided a very clear essay on the facts of why things are the way they are.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Very nicely put. I imagine if one takes time to read all that you said here then there would be very little to disagree on, if anything.

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Vindictus is more P2W, Flyff is more P2W, Mabinogi is more P2W and Tera is more P2W; ergo BDO is not P2W! Using your "logic" of course. :) 

And if you combined the entire population of those games you might have enough players to populate one BDO server.

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

all dead games lmao, you validated his point u moron

If you don't mind me asking, I'm guessing you've got a source for this? These are also the names off the top of my head, I can guarantee you that there are games that are P2W that aren't dead yet. My point is, comparing BDO to another game, even one that isn't even in the same genre, is completely ridiculous. Why don't we care WoW or Team Fortress 2 to EVE? Or compare League of Legends to EVE? 

I'd also suggest remaining civil and not relying on baseless insults to get your points across. :) 

And if you combined the entire population of those games you might have enough players to populate one BDO server.

You've got a source for this as well? I'd like to think that I did the right thing in quitting Tera and thinking it's dying, but people are still playing it and spending money it. As explained above, these are also just games off the top of my head. It's completely ridiculous to compare BDO to a game that is not only developed in the West but is also a completely different genre. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

 I'm a little tea pot

Yes I do, I just dgaf about showing you game population tracking sites.

inb4 you say this means I can't refute your points because I know ahead of time arguing with you is like arguing with my dog so I don't bother.

Edited by bakimono

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

If you don't mind me asking, I'm guessing you've got a source for this? These are also the names off the top of my head, I can guarantee you that there are games that are P2W that aren't dead yet. My point is, comparing BDO to another game, even one that isn't even in the same genre, is completely ridiculous. Why don't we care WoW or Team Fortress 2 to EVE? Or compare League of Legends to EVE? 

I'd also suggest remaining civil and not relying on baseless insults to get your points across. :) 

You've got a source for this as well? I'd like to think that I did the right thing in quitting Tera and thinking it's dying, but people are still playing it and spending money it. As explained above, these are also just games off the top of my head. It's completely ridiculous to compare BDO to a game that is not only developed in the West but is also a completely different genre. 

Dude I joined Tera yesterday again to check out the population. There might be one or two players playing the game and spending some money. But the server is empty! 99% empty. So really don't know what you are talking about. Please go join a Tera server and you will see for yourself. You may be able to see a max of 15 players :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Yes I do, I just dgaf about showing you game population tracking sites.
inb4 you say this means I can't refute your points because I know ahead of time arguing with you is like arguing with my dog so I don't bother.

He/she/it just stops to answer when gets proven wrong or makes up something and asks you to prove it while never having any sources etc to back up the statements it makes.

Seems like a bright person that can write loads of stuff about nothing so kudos to that him/her/it. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

He/she/it just stops to answer when gets proven wrong or makes up something and asks you to prove it while never having any sources etc to back up the statements it makes.

Seems like a bright person that can write loads of stuff about nothing so kudos to that him/her/it. 

You think someone with my posting count hasn't had numerous encounters with a user that originally named themselves after a British colloquialism for female genitalia?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

You think someone with my posting count hasn't had numerous encounters with a user that originally named themselves after a British colloquialism for female genitalia?

Should have checked that :) only found that person today and was fun until it got what I think painted into a corner by own logic and stopped posting.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

Should have checked that :) only found that person today and was fun until it got what I think painted into a corner by own logic and stopped posting.

She(?) is off her game from trying to argue with so many different people at once for such an extended period of time. (normally a little thing like logic isn't something that will phase her(?) )

Edited by bakimono

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Mate , i like your post. Same things happened in Battle of Immortals , guilds of P2W players control whole gaming world there you cant even get inside the dung if you dont pay in cash shop some crazy money to stay competitive with them. People still dont understand what is this about. But i have seen it in other games so it doesnt mean it cant happen here. So all you guys what are saying new update will be nice and will not negatively affect game are totally wrong , cause later can happen you will regret this. It will start with 5 items per week , later it can be 10 items per week , and then no limit and bb

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

In EVE Online, you can buy card time with real money and sell them for IG currency since a long long time (more than 10 years if I remember).  It didn't kill the game at all. On the contrary, it had a very positive impact.

Overall, I have no idea BDO will know the same fate, but sometimes, you have to try to be sure. While I have already spent a lot of money into this game (and EVE as well, still active), I recommend to remove this feature or at least to limit the number of items to 1 or 2 a week max, the first 2 months, in order to check the impact on the game. Then you can analyze and take the right decision.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

In EVE Online, you can buy card time with real money and sell them for IG currency since a long long time (more than 10 years if I remember).  It didn't kill the game at all. On the contrary, it had a very positive impact.

Overall, I have no idea BDO will know the same fate, but sometimes, you have to try to be sure. While I have already spent a lot of money into this game (and EVE as well, still active), I recommend to remove this feature or at least to limit the number of items to 1 or 2 a week max, the first 2 months, in order to check the impact on the game. Then you can analyze and take the right decision.

EVE is a completely different game with a radically different balance.

You're not going to be a practically unkillable god compared to the bulk of the playerbase in EVE because you sold $3k worth of plex or whatever it is in EVE.

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

In EVE Online, you can buy card time with real money and sell them for IG currency since a long long time (more than 10 years if I remember).  It didn't kill the game at all. On the contrary, it had a very positive impact.

Overall, I have no idea BDO will know the same fate, but sometimes, you have to try to be sure. While I have already spent a lot of money into this game (and EVE as well, still active), I recommend to remove this feature or at least to limit the number of items to 1 or 2 a week max, the first 2 months, in order to check the impact on the game. Then you can analyze and take the right decision.

It's like people didn't read the post at all. I swear.

@OP Thank you for a concise, detailed and researched opinion. It may be too long for the idiots that can't spend more than a few minutes of their time to read, but that just shows what type of people the new system is pandering too.

Inb4 : "pls maek vido words hurt"

2 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

I have the feeling this analysis is a skewed with bias. That's just me though... *rubs chin*

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites