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MMO genre is dead

75 posts in this topic

Posted

All of them die in popularity eventually then go p2w. MMOs don't have a good player retention due to the lots of problems.

The average mmo player age is 26 while MOBAs are 18-21 the gap for MMOs will container rising because new generation is about instant gratification. Thus less newer players an overall community is decreasing.

The MMO genre is generally full of game hoppers nowadays looking for a MMO can be better or bring you nostalgia effect of your 1st MMO you've played. When a new MMO comes out tons of players quit thier current one, play the new one for a few months and move to the next one never looking back. In the end you'll never find a new MMO that will be like your 1st one and will never die or go p2w.

If you think any MMO that will ever exisit without going p2w or some kind of convience that seems p2w you're delusional. Time to move on to the moba until they become p2w. Subscriptions are a thing of the past and cash shops will always be there.

I'm a veteran MMO player and after BDO completely dies I'm done with this genre.

 

Tldr

I suggest anyone stick with this game or the next one you have in line and wait for it to dies/go p2w and never play another MMO. This genre is dead.

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Part of the reason these games keep falling on their face is they approach it one of two ways.

1 - The most common, copy something already successful. But there is that old gamer expression "You're never going to kill WoW with a WoW clone."

2 - Less common but still frequently done, design a game about what players want (or what is thought that they want) at the time of developing a game's concept. The problem here is that by the time you get that product to market it's very likely people no longer want it. Wildstar is a very recent poster-child for this.

It's *VERY DIFFICULT* to develop a game aimed at what people will want in 3-4 years and because game development is so expensive they become beholden to investors who want you to do the first approach and occasionally supporting the second.

This is pretty common in single player games as well (hence the retarded amount of sequels) but to some degree this is completely disregarded, especially among the indie developers.

Until someone is bold enough to really innovate and give twin middle fingers to the mmo status quo we're destined for a cycle of games that shoot for the moon and land in P2W.

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Posted (edited)

"Subscriptions are a thing of the past", but almost all of the most successful MMOs out right now are sub-based?

Edited by Tomoyo

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Posted

"Subscriptions are a thing of the past", but almost all of the most successful MMOs out right now are sub-based?

There's like two successful sub MMO's out there; WoW and FF.

Both Blizzard and Squeenix have alternative revenue streams out the rear-end and can weather rocky periods.


Everything else that's sucessful is f2p or b2p with cash shops.

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Posted

There's like two successful sub MMO's out there; WoW and FF.
Both Blizzard and Squeenix have alternative revenue streams out the rear-end and can weather rocky periods.


Everything else that's sucessful is f2p or b2p with cash shops.

WoW and FF are two of perhaps four MMOs that are actively well-populated, successful, and enjoyed right now. GW2 and ESO fall into "B2P with Cash Shop", but even then you don't see levels of controversy comparable to other Cash Shop MMOs. There's a reason for this, and Kakao obviously doesn't get it.

But regardless, to say subscriptions are "a thing of the past" when two of the most successful MMOs use subscriptions seems incredibly off.

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Posted

The problem with subscription based is if you cannot have a sustainable population it will either croak or go B2P/F2P that will have their own issues on moving from a subscription based model to something else.

Also here is the thing, B2P doesnt mean you pay once and you are done for good, all B2P games have cash shops in order to sustain the game further development ... you people that are crying over this haven seen actual P2W and just complain and complain and complain because someone can bypass some of the grind, it would be so funny if it wasnt so sad ...

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Posted (edited)

eh, that's the reason i don't care about it anymore.
these days i generally have more fun playing games with friends that are quick fun, rather then games that require commitment.
back when i started with ultima online and moved to ragnarok online and final fantasy 11 i played those games for years, every single day.
when i played the korean version of BDO i thought that this might be the same experience again, but shortly after the EU/NA release i realised that this wasn't the case and quit.

i just have so much more fun currently playing various other games with friends rather than just this one game.
if the mmorpg genre has lost one thing in the past 16 years its commited players because of the vast majority of shit MMORPGs

Edited by chaosflash

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Posted (edited)

WoW and FF are two of perhaps four MMOs that are actively well-populated, successful, and enjoyed right now. GW2 and ESO fall into "B2P with Cash Shop", but even then you don't see levels of controversy comparable to other Cash Shop MMOs. There's a reason for this, and Kakao obviously doesn't get it.

But regardless, to say subscriptions are "a thing of the past" when two of the most successful MMOs use subscriptions seems incredibly off.

WoW is the most sucessful mmo but FF is way way way down the list... I mean FFS DFO / DNF made more money last year than WoW even and it's not really an MMO and can run on a toaster.

FF is not very high on the list but still in the top 10 but it's WAY down in terms of gross income for 2015 and, by all accounts, has been lagging in terms of population. Lets not forget that the game also died and came back from it, which is not possible for anything but a monolithic company like Squeenix.

GW2 doesn't get so much flak for what it does because the gear gap is practically non-existent and hitting level cap is doable in your sleep.


ESO doesn't get flak for it because there's nothing p2w about their CS.


So yeah... Subscriptions are a thing of the past unless you're a multi-billion dollar company with a pool of hundreds of millions of fans and 20+ years of industry presence and dozens if not hundreds of games under your belt.

Edited by bakimono

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Posted

 

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Posted

WoW was at an alltime low for the last couple months. In a few weeks it will rise in subs - and  that's not even fanboying. It's just obvious. That's what always happens: New expansion, new popularity.

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Posted

By the time an mmo can be made and released it is years behind current technology.  Game companies can create and release single player games much faster with far less investment and the make much more money.  Mmo really have not changed dramatically over  time.  So basic concepts exist today like they did years ago.  Graphics and animation improve but the basic building blocks are the same.

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Posted

Shocker.

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Posted

WoW was at an alltime low for the last couple months. In a few weeks it will rise in subs - and  that's not even fanboying. It's just obvious. That's what always happens: New expansion, new popularity.

Not an all time low, but like a 5 year low.

The funny part is... even when it's at such a low point it's still killing every other actual MMO out there because it was that huge.

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Posted

It was a lil different with Tree of Savior Failure.. Their game died off because of the lame trade/marketplace restrictions they put in place to prevent gold spammers and RMT, really destroyed the gameplay and made it feel more like a singleplayer game

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Posted (edited)

if the mmorpg genre has lost one thing in the past 16 years its commited players because of the vast majority of shit MMORPGs

I would not say that, I would say MOBA basically replaced then as people can have their fun without what you call "commitment" but I would call "labour camps", the "shit MMORPGs" simply given what players were doing, that is 24/7 grind that they just did because ... I have no idea really, conditioning maybe? I mean I can still grind like crazy for a week maybe but there is a burnout afterwards. 

Either way, the days of EverCrack are over and thank God for that, its like wishing the Black Plague would come back ...or going back the olden days of outhouses, serious .... serfdom ended with the Czar one would hope.

Edited by DRKN

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Posted

I don't feel it's dead YET. But I do see it becoming less and less quality over time.

When I first started playing MMORPGs they had so much more to them. Now they render content around gear treadmills and cash shop purchases. 

I still love them but I certainly wish for a company who presents a game to be less focused on hair salons and more focused on quality of their work. 0 pride man.

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Posted

Do you think the problem is with the developers?  Hrm.

What's the one consistent that's there game to game, business model to business model?

You're looking for problems in all the wrong places.

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Posted

It's more interesting that the average MMORPG players (who apparently are 26) are poor and don't have enough extra money to spend.

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Posted

I don't feel it's dead YET. But I do see it becoming less and less quality over time.

When I first started playing MMORPGs they had so much more to them. Now they render content around gear treadmills and cash shop purchases. 

I still love them but I certainly wish for a company who presents a game to be less focused on hair salons and more focused on quality of their work. 0 pride man.

No lotion?

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Posted (edited)

 

If you think any MMO that will ever exisit without going p2w or some kind of convience that seems p2w you're delusional.

Actualy, GW2 have nothing p2w in the cash shop.

Even the "buy in game currency" isnt an issue since the most expensive expense you can have in the game is related to skin. ( with 0 additionnal stat )

After, sure, its also because of the game design that most "boost" or so arent p2w at all

 

Devs totaly could avoid p2w if they werent thinking their game design to be annoying as f# ( like BDO with that heavy rng gear "progression" ) to sell "insane" short cut.

Its also an issue when thoses kind of gear progression are directly bound to pvp. which lead to the actual BDO situation. ( you want pvp ? you need powerfull gear. You want powerfull gear ? either play h24 during XX weeks, either pay for ""shortcut" )

 

Not saying that "p2w" is a easy buisiness way ( aside from beeing something nearly cultural in the east online gaming ) since all thoses expense are nearly unavoidable. ( like : inv space, weight, pets.. etc ). Sure you can do without, but you are inconvenienced.

 

Sure, b2p / f2p need a cash shop for a regular income, that's unquestionnable. But if there werent that lazy they could perfectly run a "clean" cash shop.

 

 

Edited by woots

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"This is dead, even though the servers are still up and one person logs on. I don't like the changes and I quit, thus, it's dead. It's dead because I quit. Me. I'm important af."

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facebook90 (2).jpg

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"Subscriptions are a thing of the past", but almost all of the most successful MMOs out right now are sub-based?

GW2 isn't sub-based, is friendly to casual players, and the junk in their shop isn't P2W.  Sadly, the game is rather old as far as graphics are concerned and it gets very repetitive/boring. 

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Posted

Part of the reason these games keep falling on their face is they approach it one of two ways.

1 - The most common, copy something already successful. But there is that old gamer expression "You're never going to kill WoW with a WoW clone."

2 - Less common but still frequently done, design a game about what players want (or what is thought that they want) at the time of developing a game's concept. The problem here is that by the time you get that product to market it's very likely people no longer want it. Wildstar is a very recent poster-child for this.

It's *VERY DIFFICULT* to develop a game aimed at what people will want in 3-4 years and because game development is so expensive they become beholden to investors who want you to do the first approach and occasionally supporting the second.

This is pretty common in single player games as well (hence the retarded amount of sequels) but to some degree this is completely disregarded, especially among the indie developers.

Until someone is bold enough to really innovate and give twin middle fingers to the mmo status quo we're destined for a cycle of games that shoot for the moon and land in P2W.

tldr

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I dont know this to be 100% true but i feel like it could be:

The most interesting games that go against conventional MMO design, are done by smaller developer groups that take far too long to produce the game.  By the time things are out (If Ever), the game is either irrelevant OR it had to be changed too much in order to get funding in 1 way or another.

If big box developers had the balls to make a masterpiece game that's great for the players instead of a total sell out to investors, the MMO Genre would likely see new pioneers to join the ranks of Ultima Online, Everquest and WoW.

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