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69.8% of Edan are FOR this change

183 posts in this topic

Posted

1. I was attempting to list the "general possibilities" for what a tag "could" mean. I've been in guilds, and are part of the admin team of my community that very much does community votes and pushes for people to show their opinions / drive the direction of the group together. Democracy / republic managed guilds do exist.

How do you know that this is true for every guild that has changed their logo though? After all my guild has changed their logo even though some of the officers are FOR this change. As I said, all changing the logo shows is that the GUILD MASTER is against the change. That's it, anything else is pure speculation. 


2. I'm a bit disconnected on your question. So I'll try and blanket the possibilities I think you meant to communicate.
I know by the act of the guild logo changing that 2 of the possibilities

A) Its a joke / going with the crowd
or B) Someone in the guild "guild leader / others" supports it.
I know this because the act of the guild logo changing provides those two possibilities being the case. That expanse more with the larger list I was making. 
As for knowing whether a guild DOESN'T support it, that's I state we don't know, its a unknown, a lack of information. If disagreement guilds would post a FOR P2W icon, sure. But we cannot know at all unless you directly inquire.

So why does the same not apply to a guild that has changed their logo? It's hypocritical to use this argument to support your case but then not apply it to the counter argument. I'm sorry but you can't claim to know what OTHERS in the guild feel, only what the guild master feels.


3. What we know is this. Assuming the % of "just for fun" is low (we cannot deduce that, but it likely isn't overly relevant info *see the trump icons that only lasted like a day or 2*) So our range on a guild with a logo is X > or = to 1
Everything else is unknowns, thus we can't really count unknowns against knowns. (This being guilds without a logo.) This is my problem with your satire. You're using unknown states when they really shouldn't be.
I agree the concern of "just for fun" is a problem. But seeing the other threads, with many of the guilds that have logos also stating that either their guild management, or the members + management disagree with P2W adds far more validity to this chance (that being its a small minority that are just for fun / following the others).

You're using unknowns as knowns as well though, you're claiming that there are others in the guild who are also against the change without actually knowing this to be true. If changing the logo was down to a popular vote I'd agree with you, however as it only requires the guild master to change the logo this is the only certainity. 


4. No, we know that 14 of the top edan guilds management / leaders AT least aka X > or = 14 disagree with P2W *-those taking it as a joke.
Its pure speculation on both sides, again your satire my counter point to why its not a good post to make.

To make the argument easier, le't just say that if a guild changed their logo it's because the GM is against this change and drop the whole "for a joke" path. I agree it's pure speculation, but you're trying to pass of speculation as fact in your above post.

14 of the GMs of the top 51 guilds on Edan are against this change. That's it, that's all we know and anything else is pure speculation and not based on fact. 

According to @Plunge

I don't have a "killing children is bad" logo on my avatar, therefor i'm pro children killing. Top level sophism at work.

Thanks for the logical fallacy! If I collect one in every thread I get a free costume!

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Posted

How do you know that this is true for every guild that has changed their logo though? After all my guild has changed their logo even though some of the officers are FOR this change. As I said, all changing the logo shows is that the GUILD MASTER is against the change. That's it, anything else is pure speculation. 

So why does the same not apply to a guild that has changed their logo? It's hypocritical to use this argument to support your case but then not apply it to the counter argument. I'm sorry but you can't claim to know what OTHERS in the guild feel, only what the guild master feels.

You're using unknowns as knowns as well though, you're claiming that there are others in the guild who are also against the change without actually knowing this to be true. If changing the logo was down to a popular vote I'd agree with you, however as it only requires the guild master to change the logo this is the only certainity. 

To make the argument easier, le't just say that if a guild changed their logo it's because the GM is against this change and drop the whole "for a joke" path. I agree it's pure speculation, but you're trying to pass of speculation as fact in your above post.

14 of the GMs of the top 51 guilds on Edan are against this change. That's it, that's all we know and anything else is pure speculation and not based on fact. 

 

 

Thanks for the logical fallacy! If I collect one in every thread I get a free costume!

OMFG you have to be -----ing kidding me. Are you really that thick ? You are precisely doing a -----ing logical fallacy you effin fraud.

Do yourself a favor and learn humility.

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Posted

OMFG you have to be -----ing kidding me. Are you really that thick ? You are precisely doing a -----ing logical fallacy you effin fraud.

Do yourself a favor and learn humility.

 

This post is entirely satirical and is merely made to show the absurdity of using guild's changing their picture to somehow show how the entire BDO community feels. As we can't see how every player feels or even the majority feel we cannot possible speak for the community and can only speak for ourselves. One image shows guilds against this change and another shows guilds for this change. 

You use a strawman, fair and square my friend; just own up to your mistake. :) 

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Posted

You use a strawman, fair and square my friend; just own up to your mistake. :) 

And you totally missed my point, which goes to show, a lot, on top of throwing the stawman word where it doesn't belong. Do you always stroll throgh the forums with your fallacy abecedarium opened in a side window so you can feel relevant ?

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Posted

And you totally missed my point, which goes to show, a lot, on top of throwing the stawman word where it doesn't belong. Do you always stroll throgh the forums with your fallacy abecedarium opened in a side window so you can feel relevant ?

You misrepresented someone's argument to make it easier to attack, I mean that was your exact argument. By all means deflect all day; but the post is right there. You used a logical fallacy, congratulations. If you'd like to point out my own logical fallacies I'd be more than happy to discuss them with you. :) 

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Posted (edited)

You misrepresented someone's argument to make it easier to attack, I mean that was your exact argument. By all means deflect all day; but the post is right there. You used a logical fallacy, congratulations. If you'd like to point out my own logical fallacies I'd be more than happy to discuss them with you. :) 

I misinterpret nothing, i'm mocking your attempt at mocking people who try to show the anti "p2w" crowd is not to be taken lightly.

But it's pretty clear it went totally over your head, genius.

- edit - and btw, this is still not the definition of a strawman.

 

Edited by muscarine

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Posted

As this image is being circulated to show that 60% of the community is against this change I thought I'd do the maths for Edan, using the same logic and numbers of course. We can assume that since a guild has changed its emblem then EVERYONE in the guild is against the chance, and vice versa; after all that's what people are trying to prove with that image correct?

So because some other guild decided they don't want to change their Guild image (for 100k guild funds btw) that means they're FOR P2W?.

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Posted

1. How do you know that this is true for every guild that has changed their logo though? After all my guild has changed their logo even though some of the officers are FOR this change. As I said, all changing the logo shows is that the GUILD MASTER is against the change. That's it, anything else is pure speculation. 

2. So why does the same not apply to a guild that has changed their logo? It's hypocritical to use this argument to support your case but then not apply it to the counter argument. I'm sorry but you can't claim to know what OTHERS in the guild feel, only what the guild master feels.

3. You're using unknowns as knowns as well though, you're claiming that there are others in the guild who are also against the change without actually knowing this to be true. If changing the logo was down to a popular vote I'd agree with you, however as it only requires the guild master to change the logo this is the only certainity. 

4. To make the argument easier, le't just say that if a guild changed their logo it's because the GM is against this change and drop the whole "for a joke" path. I agree it's pure speculation, but you're trying to pass of speculation as fact in your above post.

14 of the GMs of the top 51 guilds on Edan are against this change. That's it, that's all we know and anything else is pure speculation and not based on fact. 

 

1. Thus why there were different possibilities.
If you look back, I had minority, majority, only GM, as possibilities. Thus I don't need to know specifically what the case is for each situation. They should slot into any catagory. But each catagory other than "for the lawlz" will still fit the equation X (disagree with P2W) is > or = to 1.

2. I am in no way claiming what guilds and their members feel. I've even listed a catagory that they "could" fit into, if they all don't care. Aka the "for the fun of it / going with the crowd"
I've applied fair logic on both sides. And even attempted to build fair argument around the potential of failure of my above equation in 1. That being that most of the guilds that are in the top 100 that are actively using a NO P2W icon, have in some way shape or form posted on these threads, some citing more specifically the body of agreement / disagreement in their ranks.
We cannot know for sure if no guilds are doing the icon for actual real belief reasons, BUT because of other evidence, specifically public guild messages from leaders, it is fair to state that the likelihood of a objectively damaging amount of guilds are falsely using the Icon is small and remote. 

Remember, X > or = to 1 covers. 1 to infinity. So say a guild has 100 members, and 10 like P2W. This equation still covers them. The result of that guild would be X = 90

3. No I am not. I'm stating that it is a possibility. Remember my equation again. Say there is a guild with 100 members. And I only know the GM is against P2W. That means that X = 1. It still fits the equation. I'm specifically not speaking for anything I don't know. But I am including what I do know, that if a logo is NO P2W than X = AT LEAST 1. 

4. That I can completely agree to. Though I do want it at least having been mentioned, because its only fair. As to me trying to pass speculation as fact, could you please cite it so that I can rectify the confusion, or at least understand what you disagree with?

Which isn't completely true. 14 of the GMs of the top 51 guilds on Edan are against this change.  misses one thing. The potential for more to disagree with. We know that no less than 14 can be against this change, (we're excluding the "for a joke") but the upper range should be included as well. 
Thus my statement 14 of the GMs of the top 51 guilds on Edan are against this change. + potential others. Hence the range X > or = to 1; where 14 is the low end hence x = 14 or more.

Either way, thanks for being civil.

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Posted (edited)

So because some other guild decided they don't want to change their Guild image (for 100k guild funds btw) that means they're FOR P2W?.

/retardmodeLv9000+ achieved. Well done.

It's not her point.

Her point is as follow :

Some people are against killing children, some aren't

Some people show their support in public, some don't

Since not everyone likes to show their support out in the public, then it's hard to tell exactly what % is pro or against killing children

Therefore if we consider showing your support against killing children an actual base for statistics, then it's perfectly possible that there's a majority of people who like killing children since a majority of people don't show anything.

Therefore as long as we don't have return from 100% of the playerbase, the fact that people go as far as showing they're against these changes in game is meaningless.

It's a biased low IQ attempt at Schrodinger'ing the current events, by saying that since there's no way to see what's inside the box then the cat is both alive and dead.

It's a logical fallacy, and it -----ing blows my mind she can tell me i'm the one going that way. But i guess denial and self persuasion is what makes the world goes round these days.

But at the end of the day, it can actually be made fun of the way you did.

 

 

Edited by muscarine
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Posted

GG Plunge, you have managed to show that 90% of forum readers can't read.

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Posted

I mean................ are you serious????????????

Just because the guild leader didn't change the logo doesn't mean you are for P2W. I mean, how is this not obvious?

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Posted

reported for resorting to insults.

reported for being a big'ol -----

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Posted (edited)

As this image is being circulated to show that 60% of the community is against this change I thought I'd do the maths for Edan, using the same logic and numbers of course. We can assume that since a guild has changed its emblem then EVERYONE in the guild is against the chance, and vice versa; after all that's what people are trying to prove with that image correct?

Being a very thorough individual I have decided to include the top 51 guilds on the server instead of the top 17 to prove my point. These 51 guilds represent a total of 1,047 on page 1, 1,173 on page and 1,197; or 3,417 players. 

On page 1, 7 guilds have changed their logos with 608 members.

On page 2, 5 guilds have changed their logos with 283 members.

On page 3, 2 guilds have changed their logos with 141 members.

***

Therefore, 1,032 players on Edan are against this change and 2.385 players are for this change. Or 30.2% against and 69.8% for

u963LMn.png

n74QUd6.png

xvnp1uq.png

This post is entirely satirical and is merely made to show the absurdity of using guild's changing their picture to somehow show how the entire BDO community feels. As we can't see how every player feels or even the majority feel we cannot possible speak for the community and can only speak for ourselves. One image shows guilds against this change and another shows guilds for this change. 

How dumb are you? THIS is your logic for gathering % of who wants what? 

This is what happens when you choose gaming over school.

If anyone knew anything about how this world works, as a tax paying (has a job), educated adult, you'd understand why P2W is so damaging to games. It's not just about games, it's a culture of greed that rules the world and WILL destroy it for your generation (Y), if you let it. Young people on here need to wake up, educate yourselves, get off social media, get your heads away from your phones and actually learn something about the world! Anyone that supports greed of any nature needs to climb the evolution ladder and catch up, maybe grab an education while you're at it. Older people have seen the degradation of life over time due to greed, and if you knew what we knew, you'd never support this rubbish.

The chimpanzees on here will show their intelligence levels regardless of what is said, but at least think about it more deeply whilst peeling your bannanas

Edited by klm0sabl

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Posted

Yeah Edan is a p2w community, can I transfer?

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Posted

I know you're trolling/exaggerating, buuuuuuuuut maybe it's time you ventured off of your home channel group. 100s of people talk in this game via channel chat.

actually im not, have you looked at the channels? If it gets too quiet someone posts p2w baits and people nibble on that like a fat boy nibbles on chocolate cake come birthday time. Sometimes there are serious questions along with scroll LFGs but i guarantee you if you take 2 minutes youll see the baits thrown out. Not exaggerating 

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Posted

actually im not, have you looked at the channels? If it gets too quiet someone posts p2w baits and people nibble on that like a fat boy nibbles on chocolate cake come birthday time. Sometimes there are serious questions along with scroll LFGs but i guarantee you if you take 2 minutes youll see the baits thrown out. Not exaggerating 

Sorry, but I and the overwhelming majority of my guild are playing something else right now, and I know that is true of many other guilds.

What's really shocking is the amount of people who, without communication, seem to have dropped off the face of the earth. They don't hop on comms, they aren't in game, etc... and I'm talking about people who are normally gungho ----- yea bdo chatty cathys.

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Posted

70% of the server make no comment about it, therefore theyre for it.

yawn. you guys try too hard.

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Posted

This post the biggest red herring ever, everyone knows not voting no =/= a yes.  Easy example: Saying you're not going to vote for Trump does NOT mean you're going to vote for Hillary. 

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Posted

Yeah, as someone who plays on Edan they're definitely for the p2w. Edan has a crappy community though. We all know it. It's the troll server of servers. 

Oh wow. I am part of a crappy community! I feel so proud. New slogan: Edan- its craptastic!

Could you possibly paint with a wider brush when you generalize?

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Posted

Oh wow. I am part of a crappy community! I feel so proud. New slogan: Edan- its craptastic!

Could you possibly paint with a wider brush when you generalize?

It's wide, but it's spot on. You should become more observant. 

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Posted

As this image is being circulated to show that 60% of the community is against this change I thought I'd do the maths for Edan, using the same logic and numbers of course. We can assume that since a guild has changed its emblem then EVERYONE in the guild is against the chance, and vice versa; after all that's what people are trying to prove with that image correct?

Being a very thorough individual I have decided to include the top 51 guilds on the server instead of the top 17 to prove my point. These 51 guilds represent a total of 1,047 on page 1, 1,173 on page and 1,197; or 3,417 players. 

On page 1, 7 guilds have changed their logos with 608 members.

On page 2, 5 guilds have changed their logos with 283 members.

On page 3, 2 guilds have changed their logos with 141 members.

***

Therefore, 1,032 players on Edan are against this change and 2.385 players are for this change. Or 30.2% against and 69.8% for

u963LMn.png

n74QUd6.png

xvnp1uq.png

This post is entirely satirical and is merely made to show the absurdity of using guild's changing their picture to somehow show how the entire BDO community feels. As we can't see how every player feels or even the majority feel we cannot possible speak for the community and can only speak for ourselves. One image shows guilds against this change and another shows guilds for this change. 

Good thing I read the fine print on this one

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Posted

 

This post is entirely satirical and is merely made to show the absurdity of using guild's changing their picture to somehow show how the entire BDO community feels. As we can't see how every player feels or even the majority feel we cannot possible speak for the community and can only speak for ourselves. One image shows guilds against this change and another shows guilds for this change. 

So.. basically, this thread was entirely clickbait. GG, op. You guys need to stop getting hung up on the changes and just quit if it bothers you.

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Posted

It's wide, but it's spot on. You should become more observant. 

And you should become less judgmental.

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Posted

 No way in hell would he do another poll but switch the requirements. Change logo if you are for the p2w, and do nothing if you arent.

 

Cause then the data using his methods would show DRASTICALLY different numbers.

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Posted

And you should become less judgmental.

Why? Judging people based on how they act gives someone a perspective on who that person is. If you can't understand that, then you're naive. 

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