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Rangers Used to Lead the Way.....

156 posts in this topic

Posted (edited)

This post is part QQ and part constructive thoughts for the ranger community.

So I will just start out by saying; we are not the class we used to be......there; I said it. We have all been thinking it. We all know it in the back of our minds. In a game based around heavy PVP, we are for the most part either useless or "less useful than". Now most of us know the skies part a little more once we get our awakenings, but that is quite some time from now. I am a level 57 180/222 stated ranger; so not "god tier" but also not scrub league either; I would say I am right there in the meat and potatoes of our class. I also was in one of the more competitive PVP guilds on UNO so I have seen what a 218ap ranger can do; and how unrealistic it is to put an almost 200ap+ requirement on a class to be at all effective in comparison to our DPS class peers.

That being said, our community/forums, have been largely "respectful" in regards to taking these changes on the chin. I think this willingness to accept these changes as status-quo has put a hindrance on our class in ways we perhaps didn't see coming. We now are realizing all of these adjustments are slowly (or rather quickly) making our class rather obsolete in the framework of BDO at current. I think it would behoove us as a community to ban together much in the same way sorcs, and other classes have done to see changes.

For constructive purposes, I think rather than posting a bunch of flammable QQ FIX RANGER posts, we can come up with clear and concise arguments in our favor as to why we need to be re balanced to offer more viability outside of PVE grinding. So I am opening up the floor to any thoughts or ideas you all have on this.

Edited by Doramilaje
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Posted

Biggest thing for me would be more CC opportunities

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Posted (edited)

Yep, CC is a huge one.  If we had 1 other ranged CC that can be fired off quickly, i think that'd completely change the play of the class.  The cooldown would need to be balanced so that the ranger CC doesnt trump other classes (Warriors/zerkers/valks), making them worthless.

Also, I'd like to see more abilities that control an enemy groups ability to move.  Something like a -50% Runspeed debuff for 9s on a Descending current Awakening.  It could also come in the form of 2-3 lesser but different awakening effects that stack; which could promote ranger duo/trio's coordinating builds to get maximum effect.  Something AE that can be used to control enemy groups that are pushing in.  This type of skill would really lend itself well to smaller pvp groups fighting bigger groups, using good movement and Snares.  It would also play a role in node/territory/castle wars where you could prolong an enemies exposure through choke points.

If rangers are movement experts, then i'd like to see them use that type of thing against other players.

Although: I actually think ranger does pretty well for itself in pvp and in my experience 'useless' is not a word I'd use to describe the class at all.

Edited by Sizmo

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Posted

1 Every class has gap closers that easily counter the fact were ranged.

2 We lack CC compared to those melee classes.

3 We have 4 useful skills for 1v1 call of sky, blasting gust, wotw, shotgun. Some classes have 4 useful CC skills alone.

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Posted

I also was in one of the more competitive PVP guilds on UNO so I have seen what a 218ap ranger can do; and how unrealistic it is to put an almost 200ap+ requirement on a class to be at all effective in comparison to our DPS class peers.

if any other class got 218 ap it willshut all ove a any rranger with 218ap easy.

We lack the skill list other classes have they have better CC and they have combos that can literally take you 100 to 0 without letting you move. Although rangers can do that its very rare if they're equal geared.

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Posted

CC is missing i agree.

A 200+ AP ranger is bread n butter atm. Few months and this gonna change as more people will run with TRI boss gear or better. Now many people don't bother getting their grunil or whatever sets TRI, just leave them DUO till they get boss gear. So 190+ AP with ap offhand is pretty decent atm. But you will need more than that few months later.

And awakening will only save you if you have good gear and you are 58+

Awakening is not far away now, probably next month. CC problem will be solved with that. But i doubt anything will be changed to bow mastery, as ranger bow skills are getting nerfed in KR over and over again and swords getting buffed. Maybe they want to force the rangers to use the awakening skills more than the bow, watching PvP videos its about 50/50 and thats fine imo.

 

If anything i would want my KD back on PW, buff back EES how it was. But thats it

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If anything i would want my KD back on PW, buff back EES how it was. But thats it

it be nice to get a range buff from longer range skills like PW and BG.  A 10 second buff wouldn't be too much to ask.   What good is a KD from afar when all other skills are practically out of range.   I had always played range (bow) and feels that a range class should never have to go to the target.  We should make target come to us.  

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It's a little sad that they make a "ranged" class that requires to get point blanc range to deal damage. In most MMO's rangers actually dps from RANGE >.<

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I came here to see if people were whining about one of the strongest classes in the game, was not disappointed 

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Posted

I came here to see if people were whining about one of the strongest classes in the game, was not disappointed 

Explain where ranger is strong for you in EU/NA. Besides PvE.

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Explain where ranger is strong for you in EU/NA. Besides PvE.

I think the best thing to do is trying playing another class that you think is strong against ranger, and then go try to kill equally geared rangers with it.  Ranger is weak only against a few classes (mostly Wizards), Rangers are incredibly quick with lateral movement which means desync-a-palooza.

They now have the iFrame and quick mobility needed to play successfully from near-melee range and gtfo before they can take real damage (unless *insert* Berserker).  Just because you die playing one doesn't mean it's a bad class.

I play Warrior, and I have a 55 Ranger, I honestly have never even once tried to learn how to play Ranger or even read the description of the skills, only used cheese rotations, and pre +20 gear I would routinely get 100+ points in RBF and kill most classes without even breaking a sweat. Now because of the AP scaling it's even worse.

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I think the best thing to do is trying playing another class that you think is strong against ranger, and then go try to kill equally geared rangers with it.  Ranger is weak only against a few classes (mostly Wizards), Rangers are incredibly quick with lateral movement which means desync-a-palooza.

They now have the iFrame and quick mobility needed to play successfully from near-melee range and gtfo before they can take real damage (unless *insert* Berserker).  Just because you die playing one doesn't mean it's a bad class.

I play Warrior, and I have a 55 Ranger, I honestly have never even once tried to learn how to play Ranger or even read the description of the skills, only used cheese rotations, and pre +20 gear I would routinely get 100+ points in RBF and kill most classes without even breaking a sweat. Now because of the AP scaling it's even worse.

provide proof or everything you've said is complete and utter unproven poppy-----. Rangers in equal gear lose to most classes unless the ones playing said classes are idiots.

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Posted

I think the best thing to do is trying playing another class that you think is strong against ranger, and then go try to kill equally geared rangers with it.  Ranger is weak only against a few classes (mostly Wizards), Rangers are incredibly quick with lateral movement which means desync-a-palooza.

They now have the iFrame and quick mobility needed to play successfully from near-melee range and gtfo before they can take real damage (unless *insert* Berserker).  Just because you die playing one doesn't mean it's a bad class.

I play Warrior, and I have a 55 Ranger, I honestly have never even once tried to learn how to play Ranger or even read the description of the skills, only used cheese rotations, and pre +20 gear I would routinely get 100+ points in RBF and kill most classes without even breaking a sweat. Now because of the AP scaling it's even worse.

1. This is what i started to do. Starting with Sorc. And if you compare the sorc skills to ranger's its ridiculous, i have no idea why they even complain when then get a nerf on DF. That skill it self is a big joke, only consumes small mana, gives you frontal protection from dmg and CC, deals good dmg, literally no risk to use it against classes that has no grab. Oh and you can spam it. The iframe costs only stamina, and can be used lots of time + extra iframes if you run out of stamina with the shards. Many of her skills doesn't use both resources ( mana and stamina ). Getting shards is not a big deal especially if you max out the skills for it.

Now compare a ranger to it, many of her skills uses both resources, and since you can spam the skills more repeatedly we lose mana/stamina a lot faster. We have no skill that has no risk to use, even our iframe is useless i often get teleported back to someone's CC from the top of the air with CfS.

And i gotta say Wizards are actually one of the "easier" classes that we can beat atm. I personally have less problem with them than any other.

You are right, ranger can be quick, but it burns both mana and stamina for you. And thats not helpful in a fight at all.

 

2. "now have the iframe and quick mobility" Please tell me, when did we get new quick mobility skill? And FYI the change to EES is rather a nerf than buff, that iFrame is useless, i would rather have root every 4-5 sec than have a shitty iframe every 12 sec, and can only use the root every 12 sec aswell. Thats horrible.

This new iframe made our class even more buggy than before. Have you ever get grabbed while performing iframe with EES? Because it bugs me many times. If a berserk grabs me i get teleported back into his hands ( keep in mind this is when i iframed with EES, it wasn't on CD ), and i am able to spam EES while he is holding me in his hands.

Warrior grabs are buggy too while i use EES iframe. With other classes i had no experience.

 

3. Idk what to say to this, there is nothing special about what you said.

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Posted (edited)

our Iframe is for like 0,1 sec we lack out of CC but i don't think the problem is in our class alone, its more like a game mechanic problem because we are supposed to Kite players in orther to kill them and here comes the problem because u can't possibly kite someone who's CC hitbox catches you after 2x Q-cancel every class exept ranger has an enourmos CC hitbox. If they reduce the rest of the classes hitbox by lets say 30% we are gona feel much more viable cuz ur not gona get cought by every fu.cking skill. I feel like i'm playing a dead meat class everyone get to u with just 1 skill then u try to run and the moment u feel safe he hits u with a mele range cc when u are half a screen away and thats not coused just by desync cuz i do abit of testing with different classes and they got rly big hitbox some skills even hit behind them with quite a decent range we are smth like 2x range of mele classes

Edited by d00mR

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Posted

If only we had better CC. My Ranger at 183/249 feels pretty useless. I'm starting to play more and more on my Valk.

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Posted

Awakening when? Ready for the CC! :D

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Posted

Didn't ranger win the KR tournament?

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Didn't ranger win the KR tournament?

But we play EU/NA :)

 

Can you give a link to the KR tournament tho? Or you mean that old one from FroZZen?

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Thought there was one posted recently, not sure of a link to it, just hear the results talked about.

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Ranger needs CC thats about it.

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I have 203 ap atm ( planning on get above 210 ) i can agree with the most. Cc lack is one the biggest problems we have right now and yeah we defenitly need some slow because when i get slowed i bearly cant move. Looking forward to awakenings.

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Posted (edited)

My level 54 witch with a +15 Liverto and a grunil set vastly outperforms my level 57 ranger with a tri liverto and boss armor in GvG and 1v1 which is sad considering it has about 50 more AP and DP each over the witch.

My level 55 ninja absolutely crushes rangers in PvP, even ones that are really well geared. Rangers have no good way to deal with a fast melee class with good CC's which is why they get obliterated by even poorly geared Sorcs, Ninjas, Kunoichi, Berserkers, Valkyries, and the occasional Musa and Maewha. In fact, the only reasons ranger is viable at all is when you severely out-gear your opponent. The only class a good ranger has a chance of beating in a 1v1 with equal gear and skill would be a tamer, which is effectively the most buggy class in the game right now.

In GvG, a witch and a wizard do everything a ranger can do, better. Better single target DPS, better ranger AoE, vastly better CC, bettter sustain and tons of useful effects for your team like healing and area protection.

With the successive nerfs to damage, rangers are actually one of the lowest damage classes in the game. If you don't believe me, go get a warrior or berserker who should be the lowest damage in the game since they're both tanks, and match your AP and kill the same target. They'll both be able to do it much faster than you. Which literally means that rangers are now terrible at the only redeeming quality they once had.

If you're getting beat by rangers regularly, you either lack the gear they have, or simply don't know how to play your class. Unless you consider it viable that classes be balanced based on your own gear discrepancies rather than a fair match(aka 1v1 with equal gear and skill), in which case you should complain that rangers get nerfed some more, as I'm pretty sure there are some level 15 players with blank gear I can still beat.

I think the best thing to do is trying playing another class that you think is strong against ranger, and then go try to kill equally geared rangers with it.  Ranger is weak only against a few classes (mostly Wizards), Rangers are incredibly quick with lateral movement which means desync-a-palooza.

They now have the iFrame and quick mobility needed to play successfully from near-melee range and gtfo before they can take real damage (unless *insert* Berserker).  Just because you die playing one doesn't mean it's a bad class.

I play Warrior, and I have a 55 Ranger, I honestly have never even once tried to learn how to play Ranger or even read the description of the skills, only used cheese rotations, and pre +20 gear I would routinely get 100+ points in RBF and kill most classes without even breaking a sweat. Now because of the AP scaling it's even worse.

In response to how  the class could be improved. I feel our damage would be alright even after being so heavily nerfed, if we had some proper CC's to make up for it. A more reliable i-frame would be nice as well.

  • Return EES back to it's old CD but keep the current effects.
  • Make blasting gust knockdown work when cancelled.
  • Make blasting gust's CD stop reseting every time you use it like almost every other skill in the game already does.
Edited by Noctus

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Posted

 

That being said, our community/forums, have been largely "respectful" in regards to taking these changes on the chin. I think this willingness to accept these changes as status-quo has put a hindrance on our class in ways we perhaps didn't see coming

Maybe cause most of uss arent whiny little -----es and focus more on getting gud than whining about our class in forums. We all know ranger is bad in 1v1, dosent have cc and relies more on mana and stamina than other classes thats it move on. We are also by far the best class to grind dont forget that.

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Posted (edited)

The problem is with how PA balances their classes & how Ranger scales.

The only explanation for the current changes is that PA takes a top geared ranger vs top geared any other class and trys to balance that out. At that level, Ranger is nicely balanced - they do really good damage, but when caught are paper since they don't have any super armor, cannot V while KD and have no immunities to CC (glass-cannon archetype). 

Where the problem arises is the fact that PA doesn't test (and if they did, they would know the exact problem) lower tiered rangers vs. other lower tiered classes for balancing. If they did, they would quickly find out that ranger scales much higher off of AP than other classes. What does this mean, exactly?


Let me explain:
Rangers have been SIGNIFICANTLY nerfed in KR after +16 to +20 came out. Why? Because they were originally balanced for +15, but when AP was added, they became exponentially more powerful than other classes, in terms of damage. Each time classes are balanced, PA tests the higher average AP and makes changes off of that. Those nerfs translated here - NA/EU - (they probably shouldn't be) when we didn't have the +16 to +20 gear and was very apparent to any player that played Ranger.

PA never changed Ranger scaling, so while they are much more balanced for the tested/higher AP, and nerfed the skills according to that, the lower AP geared Rangers suffer SIGNIFICANTLY. If anyone played Ranger at NA/EU launch, they would have felt this feeling of being almost pointless in damage/ability compared to other classes at the lower levels because Rangers have very low AP at this point in the game.

Fast forward to the current situation of NA/EU Rangers and a Ranger with 160AP will be out damaged by most classes with 50AP less (~100-120 AP). It was first apparent when in a Red Battlefield an average geared Warrior (my AP) wombo-combo'd me from 100% to 0% before I could stand up and my class's bread-and-butter damage skill did less than 5% of a player's healthbar that had average DP.

220AP Rangers in NA/EU typically have really good points in Red Battlefield, yes. They fit into the "glass cannon" archetype - which means if they stick with the pack and don't get ganked, they will have very good points because they have really good damage at that higher AP. That same 220AP ranger will also lose their points VERY easy if they go solo and get caught by another class offguard. This to me, is balance. Lower AP Rangers are NOT balanced.

Edited by VipeR
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Posted (edited)

 

220AP Rangers in NA/EU typically have really good points in Red Battlefield, yes. They fit into the "glass cannon" archetype - which means if they stick with the pack and don't get ganked, they will have very good points because they have really good damage at that higher AP. That same 220AP ranger will also lose their points VERY easy if they go solo and get caught by another class offguard. This to me, is balance. Lower AP Rangers are NOT balanced.

What are u talking about? Ur speaking of typicall 220 ap rangers in na/eu as if thats a thing, i play in most populated eu server and never heard of/seen a ranger with 220 ap. Also how has ap anything to do with survivability when getting caught or rbf points with class balance? 

Edited by Azta
1. Inappropriate or infringing content
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