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Rise of the amount of chargebacks (p2w update)


729 posts in this topic

Posted (edited)

Yeah that doesn't work. They're in the Netherlands and there are laws here which include protection for indirect purchases (Pearls) if you can prove the item has been bought because it's the only way to buy something in-game you win. And since Daum Cash (or Pearls) are they only way to buy ingame items, Daum has litterally nothing to stand on.

 

Chargebacks work fine. The people who did have all recieved their money back and Daum can't do anything about it. They've gambled and lost, big time.

There's plenty of people (including proof) who got their money back just fine. There's not a single example of someone who failed to charge back.

What is your point again?

And those plenty of people have just wrecked their credit report, have fun trying to get loans in the future when they run a check to find out you've commited chargeback fraud. 

Edited by Phrixos

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Posted

Well when customers are start talking with their wallets usually we see some big changes and reply from GMs.  On anything else they are silent.

Imo paypal dispute - claim != chargeback.  I am not happy the path BDO chosen to follow so you will give me my money back and you can keep my account and perls on it and maybe resel them to someone who is still willing to play. I don't really care.

And DAUM could state that our version is going P2W from the start. Not some lawyer tricks, say it as it is something like "At the momemnt we do not have proper patch so cash shop items CAN-NOT be sold on market but in few months when we catch up to KR version of the game cash shop items will be sold on the market and thus allowing players to directly echange dollars to silver.

And you know what would happen?  60% less sold copies. And now that we have buyer protection from paypal DAUM is crying and wite knight defending.

 

PS charge back is illegal, paypal opening up dispute and winning it is not.

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Posted

The only party here that is closest to committing 'fraud' or acting in illegitimate and un-professional ways is Daum.

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Posted

The only party here that is closest to committing 'fraud' or acting in illegitimate and un-professional ways is Daum.

Says you, go ahead commit fraud. 

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Posted (edited)

All you pseudo-lawyers, charge-back and p2w kiddies are hilarious! I hope this thread stays active so I can have a nice laugh before bed each night. 

This whole event reminds me of straining hot noodles in the sink.

Edited by Ifie
mistake

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Posted

Its clear to me already that you are a troll on this forums, this entire page is filled with your ramblings and quoting people and using sarcasm as a form of suggestion/manipulation to hide your hideous personality. You are one of those that would spew all the vitriol in this world if you could. 

Just a word of advice for future posts, but it's best if you leave the personal attacks until the end of the post so that you are guaranteed to get a reply. Starting off with them shows the person replying that not only can you not control your emotions but that your argument isn't build on stable ground.

When you are in fact raging at the fact that almost not 1 cares what you post and replies you, 

"NO ONE CARES WHAT YOU POST!"

"But I'm going to reply to you anyway..."

Glad you cared enough my friend. :) 

its best not to use a SMILIE face LOL.

:) 

LAST I CHECKED when you start the game client its no longer DAUM, its KAKAO GAMES, 

They're the same company, rebranded under a new name. You can call it an Aubergine or an Eggplant, it's still that long black phallic shaped vegetable. :) 

and last I checked, chargebacks can be world-wide, 

They are world-wide, don't think anyone was arguing that they're not. The point is that charge-backs have a 180 period before they're fully settled, not 11 days or whatever PayPal states. 

last I checked, trolls like you are still the reason why games suck so much.

Odd that someone posting on the forums is ruining your gaming experience, are you sure that it's not because people typing words on a Vietnamese rice exchange forum affect you personally? :) 

Last I checked, you have filled the entire page with your silly quoting of irrelevant subjects taken completely out of context to make use satire and sarcasm and pollute dilute this serious topic of game companies using FALSE ADVERTISEMENT as a way to gain profit. 

Quick question, where's the false advertisement? They never said that there would NEVER be cash shop items in the marketplace, they merely said that IF they did allow it there would be limitations to prevent P2W....which is what they've done. :) 

That is the actual topic, if you are just going to troll because of your inability to discern vital issues and casual debates then keep doing what you are doing! Feel the rage and drown in your loneliness! like your actual username, how poetic, PLUNGE into sadness! YAY!

So, I've remained civil whereas you're using personal attacks as much as Bakimono uses logical fallacies, yet I am the one who's raging? Riiiiiiight. I'm definetly not sitting in my duck pajamas eating porridge and smiling gently. God no, I'm smashing my flat up in rage. :) As for loneliness, who can be lonely when they've got duck pajamas with duck slippers to match? You're crazy!

"The funniest people have the saddest souls" ~ Modern Proverbs

"Plunge is just this amazing guy (or grill) who enjoys proving people wrong on the forums. Thanks Obama" ~ Donald Trump 2016

P.S. You need a brain to actually agitate people, 

Surely if I didn't have a brain I wouldn't be able to co-ordinate typing the keys with my fingers, right?  

Funcom is based out of OSLO, I wonder which continent that belongs to... OH WAIT! is it EU?

Actually....it's not.....Norway isn't part of the EU....so....wow....this is embarrassing for you...I'm guessing you're going to claim you were talking about the contient of Euorpe, but then why use EU when it stands for European Union; which Norway isn't part of. 

Gee, I love how you make US and EU seem like they can't communicate with legal jurisdiction, financial fraud can be chargeback world wide.

You know that the EU and US have different laws and if you live in one you're not governed by another, right? :) 

When my dad hires a family lawyer, I didn't use him, I got his friend's friend who also happens to be a lawyer to document my dispute. It is beneficial to learn to read, might want to start doing it before quoting others, 

My daddy this, my daddy that...yeh well my daddy could beat up your daddy! :) Gonna take whatever you say with a heavy dose of salt as long as you keep saying things like "Yeh well my daddy's friend is a lawyer", it sounds more like a valley girl screeching at someone because they sc-----d her car. 

and taking quotes out of context also portrays one such as you to appear as a nauseating kindergartener who, most of humanity wants naught to do with, including myself. 

So...why are you quoting me? o.O

Please keep plunging into intellectual stigma with that pseudo cancerous smirk you carry with you when addressing others. You are one of those that must disagree with others 

So what you're saying is that I must be forced to agree with you because your daddy's friend is a lawyer and you like to insult people? Okay mate! 

to feel good about yourself,

Actually, I feel good about myself regardless as I'm an amazing person. :) 

you criticize to elevate yourself hiding behind that cowardly disingenuous sarcasm that you paint yourself under. 

Wow! All this projecting! 

136.gif

You must have a contentious relationship with one or both of your parents/guardians to have such disrespect to authority and sincere motivations. 

Hold up, since when did you become a person of authority? Also...both my parents are....well...dead.......DEAD PROUD OF ME THAT IS! PLUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUNGEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!

Sorry, couldn't resist. :) 

That's okay, years of dealing with people in customer service and studying human behavioural psychology lets me psycho-analyze people relatively with ease. Don't feel bad, there are millions of creatures just like you out there, they can be your best friends!

That's odd, I thought this was the BDO forums but it seems to be the waiting line to go into the first Psych 101 class of the semester. :) 

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Posted

I do hope that the pro-p2w legion knows why people want do charge backs. It's not just over: "omg. It's so suddenly, they advertised they wouldn't!!". It went b2p to leave things out like a subscription. That is the biggest reason. Allowing cash shop items to be sold on the market place was the last straw. Also they won't be able to reply to every charge back, lol. For that mass email it had to be thousands of people going for the charge back. They have to respond to every purchase one at a time for ALL OF THEM. They can't go for a single charge back and that the rest will follow.

I think the distinction should be made here...

I can't speak for everyone but I am hardly "pro-p2w" at all... And I also fully understand why people *want* to do charge backs, hell I want to on some level.

I mean... I've also wanted to smash bosses' faces in, not go to work, cheat on my fiance... all sorts of things that I didn't do because I understand the difference between my impulses and how I actually should and want to conduct myself.

What I'm saying here is... I'm very displeased with this change as well, but I'm not about to do something I think is unethical that could have real consequences for such a minor thing in the scheme of things. It's a video game, I'll just be disappointed, play till I stop enjoying it and move on with my life instead of losing my shit over it or doing something I'll regret later.

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Posted

I'm now convinced Plunge is autistic.

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Posted

Look... I am not a fan of the changes but you people really need to come to grips with the reality of the situation.
They didn't lie. Charge backs made because of this change are fraud, and it costs them money to deal with it and, in the end, harms all parties involved.

Daum isn't shocked that people are upset, they are warning people that they will go after fraud and are giving people notice to re-consider their actions. Most companies don't go after charge backs because it's typically not worth it, once it breaks the threshold of it being more cost effective to go after it than ignore it the people who did it are in for a rude awakening.

Welcome to adulthood, you can't just throw a tantrum and take your money back without consequence. Charge backs are not built in refund mechanics.

^ This ^

I can't stand fake fraudulent ass people.
They disgust me.

I think the distinction should be made here...
I can't speak for everyone but I am hardly "pro-p2w" at all... And I also fully understand why people *want* to do charge backs, hell I want to on some level.

I mean... I've also wanted to smash bosses' faces in, not go to work, cheat on my fiance... all sorts of things that I didn't do because I understand the difference between my impulses and how I actually should and want to conduct myself.

What I'm saying here is... I'm very displeased with this change as well, but I'm not about to do something I think is unethical that could have real consequences for such a minor thing in the scheme of things. It's a video game, I'll just be disappointed, play till I stop enjoying it and move on with my life instead of losing my shit over it or doing something I'll regret later.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Bakimono for president.

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Posted

Pay to win (often referred to by the pseudo-acronym "P2W") implies players must pay money to advance in the game beyond either a base subscription or initial game purchase. It is sometimes mentioned as the gameplay result of Free to play business model.

Guess from where it is, a get your facts straight kids.

Yes I did but as I said it was national law for my country and not international. I do not work as a lawer because its a shady business. I stopped and got a more relaxed job and a different field because in some cases you will have to fight for a client even when you know he did bad stuff. You never had to read huge books with hundreds of pages and have to remember what they say, understand what they mean and how to use them.

Anyway why should I should I bother? Believe what you like I don't care. I linked stuff so people can inform themself about it. Glad someone posted a result of his case. Should be easy to win now.. at least in the usa..

you know he posted stuff 

a) from over a month ago, before this drama 

b) its mostly on - wich means he paid.

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Posted (edited)

You are charging back the Pearls you bought with your money. Which has nothing to do with P2W or not. Because you buy pearls and not items that are now concidered to be P2W.

So you are committing a fraud. And now you are risking to not only to not get your money back, but also to get banned in the game.

 

So be very careful when you consider the chargeback. The consequences are the very big.

They can only ban u while being in the dispute.

If they dont have to refund u, they are bound to give u acces to the product you bought.

Edit: Which is acces to play this game untill it dies out and gets cancelled.

Edited by Hyppocritten

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Posted

Pay to win (often referred to by the pseudo-acronym "P2W") implies players must pay money to advance in the game beyond either a base subscription or initial game purchase. It is sometimes mentioned as the gameplay result of Free to play business model.

Games that let you buy better gear or allow you to make better items then everyone else at a faster rate and then makes the game largely unbalanced even for people who have skill in the game without paying.

Every place has a different definition for P2W.

They can only ban u while being in the dispute.

If they dont have to refund u, they are bound to give u acces to the product you bought.

Edit: Which is acces to play this game untill it dies out and gets cancelled.

Actually you're wrong, if you initiate a chargeback, regardless of whether you win or not, then you have broken the ToS. 

The non-payment or the retraction of a payment for a Game License or for Daum Cash, for instance with a chargeback, shall qualify as a Default allowing Kakao Games Europe, without prior notice, to immediately suspend the provision of all Services to the User on all User Accounts owned by the User without terminating User’s payment obligations.

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Posted (edited)

Well tbh pay 2 win is relative. If this becomes a lawsuit the only definition that matters will be the one, the judge makes out of it. And he will not be going to forums  to read up on the slang. So... http://www.ign.com/articles/2012/08/13/separating-free-to-play-and-pay-to-win

The much maligned ‘pay to win’ label in the West, where users can only really advance by handing over money

And users pay it, because they want to be first on the leaderboards.

 

And more arguments in it to convince any judge this game is pay2win.

I would be very carefull saying this game has not become p2w already for the majority of players, when u take all convenience items + CS selling + definition of Valk QQ by the company itself. That last one is going to bite them since they define it as P2W.

Personally I dont think chargebacks are in place here. We bought exactly what we bought. U either swallow the decision making or you quit. So honestly whoever did chargebacks, I think it will be very unlikely you'll win.

Edited by Hyppocritten

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Posted

Ok?
The problem is that people assume that their definition of p2w and Daum's definition of p2w are the same thing.

Can you conclusively show me anywhere them claiming they think selling pearl items = p2w?


Can it not easily be argued that the fact that they are putting both price and sale volume restrictions on is their way of keeping it away from what they would consider "relating to a p2w model"?

Also, they openly said in plain english it was a possibility from the beginning.

apparently, these plaintiffs are comprehending what they want it to be and not what it is. 

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Posted (edited)

 

Games that let you buy better gear or allow you to make better items then everyone else at a faster rate and then makes the game largely unbalanced even for people who have skill in the game without paying.

Every place has a different definition for P2W.

Actually you're wrong, if you initiate a chargeback, regardless of whether you win or not, then you have broken the ToS. 

The non-payment or the retraction of a payment for a Game License or for Daum Cash, for instance with a chargeback, shall qualify as a Default allowing Kakao Games Europe, without prior notice, to immediately suspend the provision of all Services to the User on all User Accounts owned by the User without terminating User’s payment obligations.

Suspend means cancel for a period of time.

apparently, these plaintiffs are comprehending what they want it to be and not what it is. 

I wouldn't call IGN plaintiffs, but that's just comprehending as well :P

 

Edit BTW I dont support this chargebacking, I dont like the new update.

Edited by Hyppocritten

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Posted

Suspend means cancel for a period of time.

You said this

If they dont have to refund u, they are bound to give u acces to the product you bought.

Which is untrue, as the ToS states that they can suspend your services IF you initiate a charge-back, not IF you lose. 

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Posted

All the pay to win arguments is irrelevant, you paid for daum cash, not pearl or BDO items. What youve done with the daum cash after you've paid it is irrelevant too. You received and used the Daum Cash, so nothing they said about BDO has anything to do with it.

If they contest your chargeback you will lose, end of it.

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Posted

Lmao seriously though, I bet you blew up all of your shit screaming p2w and now that it's too late to go back, you are -----ing about daum sending warning emails. 

Disgusting Cu-nts like you are the reason why when a legitimate chargeback is requested by people with legitimate reasons are denied. Keep up the nerd rage and hope they give you a charge back so we don't have to deal with your retarded ass. Go fk yer self ya cu-nt mongers. 

Begin the 5th grade "why are you so salty?" replies in...

1...

2...

3... GO

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Posted (edited)

 

 

as the ToS states that they can suspend your services IF you initiate a charge-back,

Yep true and that suspension ends after the dispute.

You win: you get your money and no acces.

You loose: they keep your money and you keep acces.

 

All the pay to win arguments is irrelevant, you paid for daum cash, not pearl or BDO items. What youve done with the daum cash after you've paid it is irrelevant too. You received and used the Daum Cash, so nothing they said about BDO has anything to do with it.

If they contest your chargeback you will lose, end of it.

Pretty much this imho.

Edited by Hyppocritten

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Posted

Suspend means cancel for a period of time.

Period of time is not explicit.

It has multiple meanings, one of them is to stop or halt usually for a period of time.

That "usually" qualifier doesn't forbid a suspension from being permanent. 

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Posted

All these keyboard warriors that also happen to be lawyers.  *popcorn*

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Posted

Yep true and that suspension ends after the dispute.

You win: you get your money and no acces.

You loose: they keep your money and you keep acces.

Actually if you lose you may still have your access suspended.

The non-payment or the retraction of a payment for a Game License or for Daum Cash, for instance with a chargeback, shall qualify as a Default allowing Kakao Games Europe, without prior notice, to immediately suspend the provision of all Services to the User on all User Accounts owned by the User without terminating User’s payment obligations.

All these keyboard warriors that also happen to be lawyers.  *popcorn*

you don't need to be a lawyer to understand laws. In fact you're doing yourself a major disservice to not comprehend the law relevant to you because it still applies even if you're ignorant of it.

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Posted

Yep true and that suspension ends after the dispute.

Sorry, but how do you know this? All Daum state is that you will have your game account suspended when you initiate a chargeback, it doesn't state when you get it back. For instance people who have been banned from the game aren't actually permanently banned but rather suspended until 2047

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Posted

Actually if you lose you may still have your access suspended.

The non-payment or the retraction of a payment for a Game License or for Daum Cash, for instance with a chargeback, shall qualify as a Default allowing Kakao Games Europe, without prior notice, to immediately suspend the provision of all Services to the User on all User Accounts owned by the User without terminating User’s payment obligations.

you don't need to be a lawyer to understand laws. In fact you're doing yourself a major disservice to not comprehend the law relevant to you because it still applies even if you're ignorant of it.

I understand the laws.  However many in this thread dont, clearly.  And it is amusing watching them pretend they do.

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Posted

you don't need to be a lawyer to understand laws. In fact you're doing yourself a major disservice to not comprehend the law relevant to you because it still applies even if you're ignorant of it.

you are sentence to character exp loss by judge bakimono

 

 

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