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Boss armor is NOT the best (at +15)


31 posts in this topic

Posted (edited)

To begin with, I have to make clear that this guide is not for PvP. In PvP you pretty much need muskan shoes and bheg gloves to compete with the ones who have those items. So this guide will mostly cover the PvE aspects, PvP only if you don't plan to get yourself the boss set.

Let's get started: First of all I'll go through the differences of set bonuses and stats you get with the boss set, in comparison with the set of my choice - the grunil set.

 

Boss set stats with four pieces at +15: 300 HP (100 helmet/200 chest), 100 MP/WP/SP (Chest), 200 Stamina (Set), 1 Atk/Cast Speed (Set), increased accuracy (gloves) and evasion (shoes).
Total DP: 49 (Shoes) + 32 (Gloves) + 49 (helmet) + 61 (Chest) = 191 DP

Grunil set stats with four pieces at +15 ultimate: 150 HP (Set), 7 bonus AP (Set), 8 Dmg reduction (Ultimate all four pieces total)
Total DP: 36 (Shoes) + 36 (Gloves) + 50 (Helmet) + 55 (Chest) = 177 DP

 

These are the numbers you get with both sets. At first sight yeah, boss armor seems to be superior. But let's go even further and count in the "optimal" off-hand weapon for each set. When taking the boss armor set you already have enough accuracy because of the gloves and whatever main weapon, which won't be part of this guide, since it comes up to personal choice and won't affect much on this subject. However, with boss armor you will be able to take the boss off-hand weapon nouver in best case, otherwise the standart AP off-hand. With grunil set you are pretty much forced to take the accuracy off-hand vangertz, which is nevertheless one of the best off-hand shields in terms of overall stat value.

 

Nouver boss off-hand shield +15: 27 AP, all resistance +10%, 1 crystal slot more

Vangertz off-hand shield +15: 10 AP, 19 DP, 7 accuracy and increased accuracy with enhancement, 2 evasion and increased evasion with enhancement, 2 Dmg reduction, additional special attack dmg +1

 

Now, as everything is listed above and in favor of a better overview, I venture to sort the "mostly" irrelevant stats for PvE out and give you a comparison of what you can expect to get with each set. Imo minor important stats for PvE are the following: 100 MP/WP/SP, 200 stamina, evasion, all resistance +10% (it's really nice but not a key stat for PvE, also take in mind the greatsword buffs which we will get to boost the resistences).

Finally I'll show you the comparison of both sets and combinations:

________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Boss armor set + Boss nouver off-hand (all +15):
Total AP: 27 (nouver)
Total DP: 191 (boss armor set)
Total HP: 300 (boss armor bonus)
Note: Nouver off-hand has one more crystal slot which you could fill with an extra black spirit crystal that gives another 100 HP and 5 AP; 1 atk speed stat from boss set bonus is negligible because you can easily get to 5 atk speed with the two crystal slots from gloves alone, not to mention the possible combinations with main hand weapon.

Grunil armor set + Vangertz off-hand (all +15 ultimate):
Total AP: 17 (10 vangertz + 7 grunil set bonus)
Total DP: 196 (19 vangertz + 177 grunil set)
Total HP: 150 (grunil set bonus)
Total Dmg Reduction: 10 (2 vangertz + 8 grunil set)
Note: The huge amount of dmg reduction will benefit you in in every situation and AFAIK it has more value than DP in a comparison 1:1; the additional special attack dmg +1 from vangertz shield will give you an approximately amount of a 7 AP boost when attacking enemies (tested this myself and it seems that it will also affect skills that doesn't have a special attack state like counter, back, down etc.)

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
 

TLDR and outcome:

In the end everything comes down to a minor advantage of AP in favor for the boss set + nouver combo, which is less than 10. But a massive advantage in terms of survivability in favor of the grunil set + vangertz due to more DP and the huge amount of damage reduction. Another important note is the price of enhancing and maintain the boss set, which is without doubt going to be more than 10 times more expensive and frustrating than the grunil set. What you finally choose is left to you ofcourse, this guideline just should give you a realistic expectation of what you can expect to get with both set types.

 

EDIT: It's indeed true that the overall value of the boss set which I descriped gets more value when enhancing it above +15 (mainly due to the huge AP scaling of nouver shield). However, this guideline was originally stated for +15 gear, which was made clear enough.

EDIT2: Adjusted the thread title for further clarity that all this is meant to be the case just at +15.

 

~ Skulldemon

Edited by Skulldemon

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Posted (edited)

Sell me your Boss Armors then.

It ain't better at all, you simply get a few more DP/DR. The Boss Armor dude is killing/farming way faster than the Grunil one. Nouver is only the cherry on top.

Get TRI+ on all you gear, you'll see that a few DP/DR means nothing when you mostly don't get hurt anyway.

Grinding speed ­> Survivability.

Edited by Mikuri
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Posted

Re-evaluate the statistics at full +18 (TRI) or higher. That is where your difference is noticeable. The point of the higher DP in boss armor is to not only allow you to switch to a heavier AP offensive, but to not become as squishy by doing so. No one except new players should still be at +15 gear at this point of the game. Even casuals or semi-casuals are likely sitting on full PRI at least if they leveled to 55.

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Posted

Nouver is the boss offhand piece. Still not obtainable in western version. It will be available when they released the Valencia boss (maybe with Valencia part 2?).
Also I would add that you can get about the same potential without boss amor: the game is clearly designed that way.. but as the reading comprehension of most of this forum has proven to be non existent I won't say a thing as they will call me an ignorant or a troll either way.

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Posted

Nouver is the boss offhand piece. Still not obtainable in western version. It will be available when they released the Valencia boss (maybe with Valencia part 2?).
Also I would add that you can get about the same potential without boss amor: the game is clearly designed that way.. but as the reading comprehension of most of this forum has proven to be non existent I won't say a thing as they will call me an ignorant or a troll either way.

You are correct. If it wasn't for the bonus set bonus, I would probably be rocking an Agerian helmet until the end of time, to help max out all of my PvP resistances.

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Posted

There are pretty solid theories that the damage reduction (and evasion) on Vangertz, Ultimate armor and similar items are already counted into the items total DP value. Until you can disprove that I think you should re-evaluate your theory.

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Posted

Kappa

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Posted (edited)

There are pretty solid theories that the damage reduction (and evasion) on Vangertz, Ultimate armor and similar items are already counted into the items total DP value. Until you can disprove that I think you should re-evaluate your theory.

well even ignoring that , it is technically true that doing like 2 piece grunil 2 piece heve , or 4 piece grunil would increase your clear speed more than 4 piece boss gear (as you would either gain more hp than the boss set giving you more hp ratio damage, or you'd have more ap from the grunil to give you more damage. but that difference is minor at best.

but the whole point to pve is to get gear for pvp and in that sense if you get boss gear you use it.

Edited by Burhead

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Posted

There are pretty solid theories that the damage reduction (and evasion) on Vangertz, Ultimate armor and similar items are already counted into the items total DP value. Until you can disprove that I think you should re-evaluate your theory.

And DP accessories are just ornaments to confuse us...

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Posted

TRI gives the best difference, also, 10 ap is minor?

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Posted

Grunil is in no way superior than Boss Armor

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Posted

And DP accessories are just ornaments to confuse us...

Unless specifically stated I assume any DP is damage reduction DP. :P But yeah, the whole system in this game is pretty fudged with this lack of information.

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Posted

Hope they rework DP so tank builds can be viable. Ofc, not on rangers or other squishy classes.

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Posted

You do realise that DP is made of dmg reduction+evasion, that boss armor gives more DP and the 2 dmg reduction fron ultimate grunil comes from the 5 DP gained from the ultimate version right? :3

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Posted

Yes, yes, boss armor is the worst. Please continue to use grunil. 

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Posted (edited)

Okay LOL... sell it then TY, Oh go do damage test in game if ur so sure about it.... cuz I'm sure the other regions got it wrong.

Edited by Acover

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Posted

u have full TRI bossgear? U tested it? Or u just use math to prove here? I can tell u that tri Bossgear > all! 

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Posted

EDIT: It's indeed true that the overall value of the boss set which I descriped gets more value when enhancing it above +15 (mainly due to the huge AP scaling of nouver shield). However, this guideline was originally stated for +15 gear, which was made clear enough.

 

~ Skulldemon

Then all that stuff you wrote is void because no one will just stay at +15 with the gear. Next time people will claim agerian is better at +5

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Then all that stuff you wrote is void because no one will just stay at +15 with the gear. Next time people will claim agerian is better at +5

It's true it will have its strenght just up until +15. I adjusted the thread title in favor of this fact. See it as a guide for new players now who want to get the best price-performance ratio.

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if you ONLY count the stats on the armor and not how it affects your other gear and how you set up the rest of your gear around your armor, then yes full grunil or 2/2 gruni/heve is technically a better pve option as it nets you more ap/hp than boss gear. the added fact that you can get away with an ap offhand without bhegs gloves in pve  helps this case a little.

its just, again, the only issue is while boss gear is expensive and primarily helps you in pvp more than pve, who the ----- cares about pve with the exception of trying to get better gear for pvp. sorry but there isent extra hard dungeons that are extremely dificult and require alot of specific team comps etc....

the pure and simple purpose of practically every form of pve is to get drops/money which you turn into better gear, which you use for pvp.

and the pure and simple fact that bhegs gloves allow you to use an ap offhand instead of an accuracy offhand means that you NEED bhegs gloves to bring out the max potential of your class. and if you arent using grunil gloves then you arent going to use grunil helm either, and since muskan shoes gives massive amounts of evasion and significantly more dp than grunil shoes while also giving 2 slots you arent going to use grunil shoes so you wouldent use the grunil chest.

which leaves you with the option of boss gloves/boots and heve chest/helm , except boss chest/helm combo gives more hp than heve, while also giving more overall dp, then theres the fact that with the set bonus's you get extra stamina which helps a little, and 1 attack/cast speed , which again helps a little allowing people to either use food , or different gem comps to get their needed stats.

long story short yes , grunil/heve is the ''best'' green setup for damage to help you farm faster, the farming speed that is gained is small at best. and boss gear is pure and simple better.

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To begin with, I have to make clear that this guide is not for PvP. In PvP you pretty much need muskan shoes and bheg gloves to compete with the ones who have those items. So this guide will mostly cover the PvE aspects, PvP only if you don't plan to get yourself the boss set.

Let's get started: First of all I'll go through the differences of set bonuses and stats you get with the boss set, in comparison with the set of my choice - the grunil set.

 

Boss set stats with four pieces at +15: 300 HP (100 helmet/200 chest), 100 MP/WP/SP (Chest), 200 Stamina (Set), 1 Atk/Cast Speed (Set), increased accuracy (gloves) and evasion (shoes).
Total DP: 49 (Shoes) + 32 (Gloves) + 49 (helmet) + 61 (Chest) = 191 DP

Grunil set stats with four pieces at +15 ultimate: 150 HP (Set), 7 bonus AP (Set), 8 Dmg reduction (Ultimate all four pieces total)
Total DP: 36 (Shoes) + 36 (Gloves) + 50 (Helmet) + 55 (Chest) = 177 DP

 

These are the numbers you get with both sets. At first sight yeah, boss armor seems to be superior. But let's go even further and count in the "optimal" off-hand weapon for each set. When taking the boss armor set you already have enough accuracy because of the gloves and whatever main weapon, which won't be part of this guide, since it comes up to personal choice and won't affect much on this subject. However, with boss armor you will be able to take the boss off-hand weapon nouver in best case, otherwise the standart AP off-hand. With grunil set you are pretty much forced to take the accuracy off-hand vangertz, which is nevertheless one of the best off-hand shields in terms of overall stat value.

 

Nouver boss off-hand shield +15: 27 AP, all resistance +10%, 1 crystal slot more

Vangertz off-hand shield +15: 10 AP, 19 DP, 7 accuracy and increased accuracy with enhancement, 2 evasion and increased evasion with enhancement, 2 Dmg reduction, additional special attack dmg +1

 

Now, as everything is listed above and in favor of a better overview, I venture to sort the "mostly" irrelevant stats for PvE out and give you a comparison of what you can expect to get with each set. Imo minor important stats for PvE are the following: 100 MP/WP/SP, 200 stamina, evasion, all resistance +10% (it's really nice but not a key stat for PvE, also take in mind the greatsword buffs which we will get to boost the resistences).

Finally I'll show you the comparison of both sets and combinations:

________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Boss armor set + Boss nouver off-hand (all +15):
Total AP: 27 (nouver)
Total DP: 191 (boss armor set)
Total HP: 300 (boss armor bonus)
Note: Nouver off-hand has one more crystal slot which you could fill with an extra black spirit crystal that gives another 100 HP and 5 AP; 1 atk speed stat from boss set bonus is negligible because you can easily get to 5 atk speed with the two crystal slots from gloves alone, not to mention the possible combinations with main hand weapon.

Grunil armor set + Vangertz off-hand (all +15 ultimate):
Total AP: 17 (10 vangertz + 7 grunil set bonus)
Total DP: 196 (19 vangertz + 177 grunil set)
Total HP: 150 (grunil set bonus)
Total Dmg Reduction: 10 (2 vangertz + 8 grunil set)
Note: The huge amount of dmg reduction will benefit you in in every situation and AFAIK it has more value than DP in a comparison 1:1; the additional special attack dmg +1 from vangertz shield will give you an approximately amount of a 7 AP boost when attacking enemies (tested this myself and it seems that it will also affect skills that doesn't have a special attack state like counter, back, down etc.)

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
 

TLDR and outcome:

In the end everything comes down to a minor advantage of AP in favor for the boss set + nouver combo, which is less than 10. But a massive advantage in terms of survivability in favor of the grunil set + vangertz due to more DP and the huge amount of damage reduction. Another important note is the price of enhancing and maintain the boss set, which is without doubt going to be more than 10 times more expensive and frustrating than the grunil set. What you finally choose is left to you ofcourse, this guideline just should give you a realistic expectation of what you can expect to get with both set types.

 

EDIT: It's indeed true that the overall value of the boss set which I descriped gets more value when enhancing it above +15 (mainly due to the huge AP scaling of nouver shield). However, this guideline was originally stated for +15 gear, which was made clear enough.

EDIT2: Adjusted the thread title for further clarity that all this is meant to be the case just at +15.

 

~ Skulldemon

The issue is that DP scaling falls off pretty significantly at higher values. Not to mention once awakenings release, which is "quite soon", no amount of DP (even 300+) is going to keep you from getting exploded. Warriors/Valks hiding behind their shields will become less common, or just get them killed more often due to the larger amounts of damage being put on them from Awakening weapons. If you think Ranger shotguns drain shield hp fast now then imagine every class doing that. Not to mention those without shields will still get melted, the combat dynamic shifts a bit when awakenings release, in a positive way, for most classes (ranger stays pretty much the same).

All of these calculations are really only going to be "relevant" for a couple more weeks at the most. As much as I like the Vangertz Shield it gets repleased with Nouver just simply due to the fact that it has much better AP, even if there is a loss in DP.

Also most of this is ultimately moot seeing as sitting in +15 gets you killed and everyone is going to be in DUO or better.

I understand the point you're trying to make, but at the same time...its kind of invalid at this point seeing as +15 is no longer relevant as an end goal. Yeah boss armor is much more expensive to upgrade and maintain, but at the same time it is ultimately worth it and also yes as far as we know, based on some research done by some players, DP is a combination of the Evasion and Damage Reduction stats. These things were actually detailed in tooltips early on in KR but they were ultimately removed.

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Posted

The issue is that DP scaling falls off pretty significantly at higher values. Not to mention once awakenings release, which is "quite soon", no amount of DP (even 300+) is going to keep you from getting exploded. Warriors/Valks hiding behind their shields will become less common, or just get them killed more often due to the larger amounts of damage being put on them from Awakening weapons. If you think Ranger shotguns drain shield hp fast now then imagine every class doing that. Not to mention those without shields will still get melted, the combat dynamic shifts a bit when awakenings release, in a positive way, for most classes (ranger stays pretty much the same).

All of these calculations are really only going to be "relevant" for a couple more weeks at the most. As much as I like the Vangertz Shield it gets repleased with Nouver just simply due to the fact that it has much better AP, even if there is a loss in DP.

Also most of this is ultimately moot seeing as sitting in +15 gets you killed and everyone is going to be in DUO or better.

I understand the point you're trying to make, but at the same time...its kind of invalid at this point seeing as +15 is no longer relevant as an end goal. Yeah boss armor is much more expensive to upgrade and maintain, but at the same time it is ultimately worth it and also yes as far as we know, based on some research done by some players, DP is a combination of the Evasion and Damage Reduction stats. These things were actually detailed in tooltips early on in KR but they were ultimately removed.

pretty much what i just bolded, even 400+ dp zerks get melted in seconds when awakenings is out , so 20-30 dp from a kite shield wont mean jack shit. better off getting stats that mean more.

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I understand the point you're trying to make, but at the same time...its kind of invalid at this point seeing as +15 is no longer relevant as an end goal. Yeah boss armor is much more expensive to upgrade and maintain, but at the same time it is ultimately worth it and also yes as far as we know, based on some research done by some players, DP is a combination of the Evasion and Damage Reduction stats. These things were actually detailed in tooltips early on in KR but they were ultimately removed.

You are right in many points. What interests me is the fact of the DP calculation. If this is true and evasion + damage reduction get counted into actual DP, why people insist on the huge advantage of kite shield over vangertz. The DP difference is like 4? Kite would get its total DP mainly from dmg reduction stats then, since it also scales with the enhance lvl. Is 4 DP really that much of a difference? The point with the kite shield is not understandable for me, if dmg reduction gets counted into the total DP...

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Posted (edited)

 

 

You are right in many points. What interests me is the fact of the DP calculation. If this is true and evasion + damage reduction get counted into actual DP, why people insist on the huge advantage of kite shield over vangertz. The DP difference is like 4? Kite would get its total DP mainly from dmg reduction stats then, since it also scales with the enhance lvl. Is 4 DP really that much of a difference? The point with the kite shield is not understandable for me, if dmg reduction gets counted into the total DP...

Its because Kite Shield scales Damage Reduction for its DP and Vangertz scales Evasion for its DP. It says so in both tooltips. They scale the two stats differently.

Kite shield gives more Damage Reduction per enhancement, Vangertz gives more Evasion per enhancement.

Edited by Jefferson

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Posted

Its because Kite Shield scales Damage Reduction for its DP and Vangertz scales Evasion for its DP. It says so in both tooltips. They scale the two stats differently.

Kite shield gives more Damage Reduction per enhancement, Vangertz gives more Evasion per enhancement.

So basically you are saying that DP ≠ DP? The strenght of DP is build out of various stats like dmg reduction and evasion...This means we can't trust anyone who tells us his DP unless we know its mixture O.o

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