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A modle Better then Pay to Win


39 posts in this topic

Posted

I really thought BDO would be the one asian grind game that didnt turn pay to win. Even with how borderline it was i believed they wouldnt make the same mistakes that others have made. But i also understand that companys have to make money to pay for development and servers. So Instead of this Shitty pay to win model just make the game pay to play. add a required subscription to play like wows. not a vip subscription because those are almost always pay to win. Just take the bullshit of the cash shop and remove it and make us pay $15 a month to play the game. I would rather that model then this current shitty model. Also to those who argue that a subscription has no place in a buy to play game you are both right and wrong. A vip subscription has no place in a buy to play game but a required subscription does. Look at wow it is a buy to play game and there is also a subscription. and that game still does great so what does that tell you? It says that model is great for gaming. At this point this game is destined to die like all the rest if they dont do something about it and quick. I trully believe this could be the solution. What are your guys thoughts? do you think they are at the point of no return or do you think they can still come back from the darkside?

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Look at WoW, first  buy to play (B2P), and then buy to play expansion (B2P x2), then monthly fee (P2P), then you can buy gold from AH (Blizzards instruction in AH, buy time card for 30 Euro, sell in AH for 72,000 Gold) what is a nice P2W. In WoW you can trade gold/items between player. But no one complain here...

Greedy Activision, more greedy than Daum/PA....

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Posted

wow gold buys you shit, bdo silver buys you endgame gear

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Posted

Look at WoW, first  buy to play (B2P), and then buy to play expansion (B2P x2), then monthly fee (P2P), then you can buy gold from AH (Blizzards instruction in AH, buy time card for 30 Euro, sell in AH for 72,000 Gold) what is a nice P2W. In WoW you can trade gold/items between player. But no one complain here...

Greedy Activision, more greedy than Daum/PA....

Don't lie.

The raid gear is bound and cannot be sold for gold.

The only gear that can be bought for gold is ilevel 715 crafted gear and you can only wear three prices of it. Currently invasion events drop 700-720 gear too for the pre-expansion event.

There is nothing in the cash shop in WoW that gives any amount of power. Cosmetic mounts and pets are cosmetic, no sneaky bonuses.

 

Back to the OP.

The only reason Blizzard can keep the subscription in WoW is because they have millions of players. The strictly cosmetic cash shop also brings in a good amount of cash too.

There is never likely going to be an MMO that is as successful. The day of the MMORPG is gone. Long live MOBAs until...

F2P models just dont work. Any MMORPG who goes down the cosmetic only route ends up with some element of P2W because cosmetic doesn't usually pay that much. In F2P MMOs a huge amount never pay a penny so you rely on whales to spend €30 on costumes.

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Posted

Don't lie.

The raid gear is bound and cannot be sold for gold.

The only gear that can be bought for gold is ilevel 715 crafted gear and you can only wear three prices of it. Currently invasion events drop 700-720 gear too for the pre-expansion event.

There is nothing in the cash shop in WoW that gives any amount of power. Cosmetic mounts and pets are cosmetic, no sneaky bonuses.

 

You guess you have not play WoW in long time. Some of the dropped gear from raids is not bounded, I have buy several of them from AH. Then, you CAN for real money get end gear bounded. Have you look any time in Trade channel????  In Trade channel guilds sell a spot in mythic raids, last time I look there it was around 50,000 gold for a spot in Mythic. In this Mythic spot you have a chance to get bounded items (mostly of the guild members don't need it anymore). Different guild have different models for this, have see many different models. But, buy gold for real money and you can buy a spot to get bounded end gear.  P2W....

 

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Posted

You guess you have not play WoW in long time. Some of the dropped gear from raids is not bounded, I have buy several of them from AH. Then, you CAN for real money get end gear bounded. Have you look any time in Trade channel????  In Trade channel guilds sell a spot in mythic raids, last time I look there it was around 50,000 gold for a spot in Mythic. In this Mythic spot you have a chance to get bounded items (mostly of the guild members don't need it anymore). Different guild have different models for this, have see many different models. But, buy gold for real money and you can buy a spot to get bounded end gear.  P2W....

 

Yes I do. That's player boosts and yes some sell them for gold but that's not directly buying them for money, they have always existed and people have paid for then with cash before the token. You can NOT buy proper gear with gold though normal mechanisms. Mythic boosts 19 other players still need to go with you, and you need to pray to RNGesus that what you want drops.

There are some Bind on Equip drops and there always has been but it's not a significant number.

 

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Posted

I really thought BDO would be the one asian grind game that didnt turn pay to win. Even with how borderline it was i believed they wouldnt make the same mistakes that others have made. But i also understand that companys have to make money to pay for development and servers. So Instead of this Shitty pay to win model just make the game pay to play. add a required subscription to play like wows. not a vip subscription because those are almost always pay to win. Just take the bullshit of the cash shop and remove it and make us pay $15 a month to play the game. I would rather that model then this current shitty model. Also to those who argue that a subscription has no place in a buy to play game you are both right and wrong. A vip subscription has no place in a buy to play game but a required subscription does. Look at wow it is a buy to play game and there is also a subscription. and that game still does great so what does that tell you? It says that model is great for gaming. At this point this game is destined to die like all the rest if they dont do something about it and quick. I trully believe this could be the solution. What are your guys thoughts? do you think they are at the point of no return or do you think they can still come back from the darkside?

Very well thought out, you only missed one thing.......... If you would kindly provide the $1,000,000's of dollars to pay for everyone's subscription that has already been granted permanent access to the game, it's damn near perfect.  Nah even then the game would sink.  It doesn't have enough gravity to block out so many users.

Hand over your horse emblem, we have another Donkey Rider

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Posted

Don't lie.

The raid gear is bound and cannot be sold for gold.

Don't lie. Carries through the raid by boosters can be sold for gold. Thus, the raid gear can be sold for gold even though it is bound.

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Posted

Don't lie. Carries through the raid by boosters can be sold for gold. Thus, the raid gear can be sold for gold even though it is bound.

Yes, what I said but they (Blizzard) dont sell gear for gold. Nice of you not to quote the rest.

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Posted

Yes, what I said but they (Blizzard) dont sell gear for gold. Nice of you not to quote the rest.

The raid gear is bound and cannot be sold for gold.

You said gear cannot be sold for gold. It can be, and it is on a regular basis.

Blizzard is not stupid, they are well aware of what they're doing.

Blizzard sells the gold. Blizzard provides the gear. Blizzard locks the gear in the mythic raid. Blizzard allows the boosters to sell their services for gold.

Blizzard makes cash every time someone buys gold to pay for a carry through a raid, and the person who bought the carry walks off with top gear for doing nothing.

WoW has a pipeline from wallet to raid gear and their no-lifers don't just tolerate it but defend it. And why wouldn't they? They are getting a cut of the profits in the form of gold--which they can turn back into cash at third party RMT sites, should they be so inclined.

The thing the no-lifers here are unhappy about is not that you can buy gear for gold. It's that you can buy gear for gold without giving them a share of the profits along the way.

Daum/PA have cut out the middleman, and all those middlemen with their hands out are unhappy about it.

Good riddance to them. 

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Posted

You said gear cannot be sold for gold. It can be, and it is on a regular basis.

Yes and it cannot be. To buy a boost you have to be in the raid and the loot allocated to you via master looter.

There's no formal process to exchange it for gold.

What I said is true.

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Posted

Yes and it cannot be. To buy a boost you have to be in the raid and the loot allocated to you via master looter.

There's no formal process to exchange it for gold.

You just contradicted yourself in 3 sentences. No formal process doesn't correlate it to not being possible.

 

In fact you proved the other posters point:

Daum/PA have cut out the middleman, and all those middlemen with their hands out are unhappy about it.

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Posted (edited)

Defend p2w on one game while bashing p2w on another. How typical

Edited by Azta
Insults
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Posted (edited)

You said gear cannot be sold for gold. It can be, and it is on a regular basis.

Blizzard is not stupid, they are well aware of what they're doing.

Blizzard sells the gold. Blizzard provides the gear. Blizzard locks the gear in the mythic raid. Blizzard allows the boosters to sell their services for gold.

Blizzard makes cash every time someone buys gold to pay for a carry through a raid, and the person who bought the carry walks off with top gear for doing nothing.

WoW has a pipeline from wallet to raid gear and their no-lifers don't just tolerate it but defend it. And why wouldn't they? They are getting a cut of the profits in the form of gold--which they can turn back into cash at third party RMT sites, should they be so inclined.

The thing the no-lifers here are unhappy about is not that you can buy gear for gold. It's that you can buy gear for gold without giving them a share of the profits along the way.

Daum/PA have cut out the middleman, and all those middlemen with their hands out are unhappy about it.

Good riddance to them. 

Pertaining to Diablo 3, Blizzard chose integrity over quick cash.  They declined to do a cash shop model.  It's a one time payment with no cash shop interference.  They also went through great lengths/expense to ban a lot of the cheaters.  That expense and time includes law suits against companies.

BDO is a superior game to Diablo 3.  The sales of BDO with a great reputation could increase over time.  D3 sold over 30,000,000 copies and it's not that great of a game.  Putting aside that A LOT of those sales where due to name recognition, it still means there is a huge player base willing to buy a product like BDO.  (Similar Cost, Genre etc)

Edited by 2Cents

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Posted (edited)

You just contradicted yourself in 3 sentences. No formal process doesn't correlate it to not being possible.

 

In fact you proved the other posters point:

 

Not a contradiction. Do you know how boosting works in WoW.


In order to as you call it buy gear  you need to:

Find a guild that can carry you in an encounter.

You have to be present in the raid to be eligible for any loot.

You then need to be lucky enough for the item you want to drop.

This is where the trust kicks in. Since you can't trade raid drop for gold directly both parties need to trade the gold and the item is assigned using the master looter.

While you technically can buy gear for gold it's not an approved system and an abuse of loot mechanics. You could say that for any game. People used to accept cash, and probably still do, for boosts.

This is not normal playing, or an approved transaction.

Edited by Saccharin

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Posted

Yes and it cannot be. To buy a boost you have to be in the raid and the loot allocated to you via master looter.

There's no formal process to exchange it for gold.

What I said is true.

What you said is not true, because what you said was that raid gear could not be sold for gold

And you were lying, because you already knew that it is very possible to buy raid gear in WoW for currency--which can be purchased with cash--and this happens there on a regular basis. That's what you said right here:

Yes I do. That's player boosts and yes some sell them for gold but that's not directly buying them for money, they have always existed and people have paid for then with cash before the token. You can NOT buy proper gear with gold though normal mechanisms. Mythic boosts 19 other players still need to go with you, and you need to pray to RNGesus that what you want drops.

There are some Bind on Equip drops and there always has been but it's not a significant number.

Oh, and just so that we don't let it go by unnoticed, you also acknowledged that some raid gear isn't bound and that can be sold for gold too.

As for your current focus on "formal process", do you really think I as a player care whether the rich brat who just stomped on my entire team without breaking a sweat bought his gear through a formal channel or not? Hint: the answer is "no." He bought it legitimately through game-accepted activities, using his cash instead of his time, effort, or skill.

 

 

 

Pertaining to Diablo 3, Blizzard chose integrity over quick cash.  They declined to do a cash shop model.  It's a one time payment with no cash shop interference.  They also went through great lengths/expense to ban a lot of the cheaters.  That expense and time includes law suits against companies.

BDO is a superior game to Diablo 3.  The sales of BDO with a great reputation could increase over time.  D3 sold over 30,000,000 copies and it's not that great of a game.  Putting aside that A LOT of those sales where due to name recognition, it still means there is a huge player base willing to buy a product like BDO.  (Similar Cost, Genre etc)

I'm not talking about Diablo 3. I'm talking about WoW. Nice try.

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Posted

Don't lie. Carries through the raid by boosters can be sold for gold. Thus, the raid gear can be sold for gold even though it is bound.

If they participated in the raid they earned their loot.

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Posted

What you said is not true, because what you said was that raid gear could not be sold for gold

And you were lying, because you already knew that it is very possible to buy raid gear in WoW for currency--which can be purchased with cash--and this happens there on a regular basis. That's what you said right here:

Oh, and just so that we don't let it go by unnoticed, you also acknowledged that some raid gear isn't bound and that can be sold for gold too.

As for your current focus on "formal process", do you really think I as a player care whether the rich brat who just stomped on my entire team without breaking a sweat bought his gear through a formal channel or not? Hint: the answer is "no." He bought it legitimately through game-accepted activities, using his cash instead of his time, effort, or skill.

 

 

 

I'm not talking about Diablo 3. I'm talking about WoW. Nice try.

It cannot be sold for gold unless you 'cheat'. I could sell my cat for WoW gold. Does that mean the game facilitates pet trading?

BoEs as they are known are rarely dropped from trash and are limited to a few pieces. Arguing that it makes raid gear sold for gold true is ridiculous.

I know it's the in thing to bash wow on other MMOs forums but this is getting ridiculous.

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Posted

While you technically can buy gear for gold it's not an approved system and an abuse of loot mechanics. You could say that for any game. People used to accept cash, and probably still do, for boosts.

This is not normal playing, or an approved transaction.

So what? Again, all Kakao/PA has done is cut out the middle man. It's not like Blizzard is actively enforcing punishment on these "unapproved" transactions.

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I'm not talking about Diablo 3. I'm talking about WoW. Nice try.

I believe you where talking about Blizzard's action

 

Blizzard is not stupid, they are well aware of what they're doing.

Blizzard sells the gold. Blizzard provides the gear. Blizzard locks the gear in the mythic raid. Blizzard allows the boosters to sell their services for gold.

Blizzard makes cash every time someone buys gold to pay for a carry through a raid, and the person who bought the carry walks off with top gear for doing nothing.

Diablo 3 is a Blizzard Product

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Posted

If they participated in the raid they earned their loot.

If by "participate" you mean "they were dead on the floor in the room", you are correct. But most people I know of would never define it in those terms.

It cannot be sold for gold unless you 'cheat'. I could sell my cat for WoW gold. Does that mean the game facilitates pet trading?

BoEs as they are known are rarely dropped from trash and are limited to a few pieces. Arguing that it makes raid gear sold for gold true is ridiculous.

I know it's the in thing to bash wow on other MMOs forums but this is getting ridiculous.

If you cannot be banned for "cheating", it's not actually cheating. Players openly advertise their boosting services in-game, and player-to-player trade of services for in-game gold is a completely legitimate activity.

And for the record, I'm not bashing WoW. WoW's P2W aspects are pretty typical of MMORPGs these days.

You called someone else out as "lying" in bold font on something that they were in fact 100% correct on--and your rebuttal was a lie. That takes some seriously unhealthy attitudes about the value of truth in social interactions.

So do feel free to keep deflecting all you want.

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Posted (edited)

WoW is genius p2w. Devil with a halo. It's players defending it to the last, while big B gets a big wallet. The fact blizzard impemented buyable gold says it all. They want to cut out the MM. It's likewise always dubious when you see people begging for open player trade in BDO, i can't help but see the destruction of bdo if ever a thing should go into effect.

Edited by Lanifair

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Posted

If by "participate" you mean "they were dead on the floor in the room", you are correct. But most people I know of would never define it in those terms.

If you cannot be banned for "cheating", it's not actually cheating. Players openly advertise their boosting services in-game, and player-to-player trade of services for in-game gold is a completely legitimate activity.

And for the record, I'm not bashing WoW. WoW's P2W aspects are pretty typical of MMORPGs these days.

You called someone else out as "lying" in bold font on something that they were in fact 100% correct on--and your rebuttal was a lie. That takes some seriously unhealthy attitudes about the value of truth in social interactions.

So do feel free to keep deflecting all you want.

I never directly called it cheating. Inverted commas. I used them for a reason.

You claim not to bash it but you call it P2W. I'll not go in to why it's not as you clearly wont see sense and just play with words and call me a liar.

Do you know what defecting means since I've taken on the replies directly. I've not avoided them.

Typical game zealots.

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Posted

If by "participate" you mean "they were dead on the floor in the room", you are correct. But most people I know of would never define it in those terms.

PUG raids used to have people like that all the time without any money changing hands.

WoW is genius p2w. Devil with a halo. It's players defending it to the last, while big B gets a big wallet. The fact blizzard impemented buyable gold says it all.

Obviously WoW can't be P2W because that would mean BDO is P2W too.

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Posted

Don't lie.

The raid gear is bound and cannot be sold for gold.

The only gear that can be bought for gold is ilevel 715 crafted gear and you can only wear three prices of it. Currently invasion events drop 700-720 gear too for the pre-expansion event.

There is nothing in the cash shop in WoW that gives any amount of power. Cosmetic mounts and pets are cosmetic, no sneaky bonuses.

 

Back to the OP.

The only reason Blizzard can keep the subscription in WoW is because they have millions of players. The strictly cosmetic cash shop also brings in a good amount of cash too.

There is never likely going to be an MMO that is as successful. The day of the MMORPG is gone. Long live MOBAs until...

F2P models just dont work. Any MMORPG who goes down the cosmetic only route ends up with some element of P2W because cosmetic doesn't usually pay that much. In F2P MMOs a huge amount never pay a penny so you rely on whales to spend €30 on costumes.

lol bdo isnt an mmo bud. Neither is wow. You may say 150+ ppl in these games in one instance, once a month. If that. I remember wow used to ban gms who encouraged large meet ups. 

No. The real mmos are rust Planetside mount and blade ect.. Games that readily and functionally process massive player numbers in 1 spot no problem. Enjoy your so called mmo bdo lol 

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