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Enchantment System is not worth it.

119 posts in this topic

Posted

I spent much time doing the math on this enchantment system that is forced upon us in this game, for gear progression. I have been upgrading all four of my boss armors, a liverto and many other things, keeping track of fail stacks and successes. I have discovered several things. I can upgrade an entire set of grunil to +15 about every 3 days, which I do in building fail stacks. Progression is as such: 1-5 are free, 6-9 are 0-7 fail stacks, 10-12 are typically 0-10 fail stacks, 13-14 are 5-20 fail stacks and 15 is typically about 5 fail stacks, before getting a successful upgrade. This is for all four pieces of grunil armor. In doing boss armor upgrades, there does not seem to be any reason to go above 25 fail stacks. The chance to succeed with 25 fail stacks and 45 fail stacks seems to be the exact same. The progression is essentially to add 5 to everything that it took for the grunil. The liverto seems to be the same up to 15, as it is for the boss armor. The major difference comes to pri, duo and so on in armor and weapons. Pri is typically around 5 fail stacks up to 15 to get success. The Duo is where it becomes muddled. I have experienced a success at 4, 7, 11, 22, 25 and 27 fail stacks. My liverto weapon succeed at 24 and 31. I have yet to succeed on a tri, and currently have fail stacks at 2, 7, 15, 27, 31, 44 and 46 to play with for any ongoing that I continue with.

I did this in hopes to better understand the system, to make the most efficient decisions, but I have discovered that there is not one. The entire system is no different than a lottery system, horribly designed, and only liked by people that enjoy gambling. There is no logic in the design, aside from trying to limit progression in the laziest way possible. I have come up with a nice comparison that I would like to use on the programmers of this system. I want to blindfold them, give them a hammer and attempt to hammer a small nail with their hand around it. If they hit their hand instead of the nail, they might get better at hitting the nail. This would be a delight, since these programmers that came up with this crap deserve the pain and it would humor me.

Joking aside, the time spent on preparing for these things takes me out of the game and makes the game more of a chore, but I have done this enough times to see that this system is complete trash, and lacks any real imagination. It is the one major flaw in this game that I can find, despite all of the whining about this and that. The servers are a problem, but that is on Daum or whatever name they want to call themselves. As for the game, the gear progression is as pathetic as I have seen in any mmo, and despite any amount of planning or approach, it will always resort into bashing your head into a wall until you just get lucky. I hear it was worse in Tera, though I did not play that. The fact that you must destroy gear for a chance to improve another is moronic. While I researched this game and planned accordingly, I went in that the game actually had a logical approach to this, but I was wrong. This is just a complete failure on PA to come up with a decent system that could make gear progression fun, which a game should be.

As most of the rest of the game is a delight, I will enjoy horse taming, exploring, fishing, farming, my worker force of 58 workers, cooking and so much more. But when it comes to gear progression, PA can shove it up their ass. I am sure that not everyone agrees with my opinion, as it is my opinion. However you enjoy the game is fantastic and I would not want to hinder that. However, I do not care about the too long did not read crap. If that is your problem, stop being a diva. Ciao.

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Posted

If you want BiS then you have to pay the price.

 

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Posted

OP is right, im pretty sure that this system is only tolerable or enjoyable for people that would enjoy or tolerate gambling.

However as someone who sees this stuff completely rationally the risk of losing upgrades money and time is just too much, I found myself just sitting around doing random shit instead of building failstacks for my Tri Liverto. Luckily with the new Deus Ex I have food for boredom, but I just dont see myself trying to upgrade my gear above DUO.

Its also why none of my accessories are enchanted.

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Posted

 

As most of the rest of the game is a delight, I will enjoy horse taming, exploring, fishing, farming, my worker force of 58 workers, cooking and so much more. But when it comes to gear progression, PA can shove it up their ass.

After failing TRI 8 times and then failing DUO 18 times, breaking a few more DUO pieces in the process and spending close to 500 millions just to get back where I was - I whole heartily agree with the above. I will enjoy whatever the game has to offer (apart from so called PvP) but when it comes to gear progression, PA can shove it indeed.

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Posted (edited)

I just failed tri my mainhand the 9th time 10 minutes ago. And my offhand failed to +16 6 times. This system is designed in such a way that you would rage purchase everything with ur real money. No one in their right mind would accept less reward with the equal amount of work. The only way to bypass rng is to buy the gear with real money.

The problem with NA version is that they removed the p2w items in the cash shop and yet the rng system designed for p2w remains. So we are basically playing a unplayable version of BDO. In KR we would failstack up to 10/20 and purchase a valk's cry to start enchanting for pri/duo, in our version without valks cry we are forced to enchant without reaching the fs cap and failstacking with hard/sharp. Also in KR there are sellable memory fragements, we dont have them here. With those in mind, Id say in NA they should reduce the repair cost of memory fragements by a lot and increase the enchantment success rate so that we can actually be in par in kr players.

But hey, guess what, they are eventually gonna introduce valk's cry due to heavy demand from people like me. They'd make u mad and cry for p2w. That is the whole point of rng system.

LOL all those lucky mudforkers trying to defend this rng piece of shit makes me even more mad. 

Edited by Megachicken
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Posted

If you want BiS then you have to pay the price.

 

I appreciate the enchantment system; however this doesn't mean I enjoy or dis-enjoy it.

 

Specifically, there's loads of way to gain progression and scaling-progression in-game, such as doing lots of quests then using contribution points for progression.

 

So, simply put; players can do a wide variety of in-game activities, grind monsters extremely infrequently and still be able to afford to buy a Kzarka and enchant it to TRI, which will eventually also be Kzarka, Nouver and Dandelion, all at TRI / +18. 

 

With that said though, enchanting boss armor before Nouver and Dandelion to go with TRI-Kzarka is definitely out of the question [at least for myself], and that's okay, it's a small price to pay for refusing to rely on RNG as the sole dictator of your personal progression. 

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Posted

My mileage with failstacks was vastly different then the OP's. +13 to +15 on my liverto took 30-42 stacks on each upgrade. I blew up two witches earrings on a 30 failstack. It's a terrible way to do any sort of upgrade system.

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Posted

This system is designed in such a way that you would rage purchase everything with ur real money. No one in their right mind would accept less reward with the equal amount of work. The only way to bypass rng is to buy the gear with real money.

The problem with NA version is that they removed the p2w items in the cash shop and yet the rng system designed for p2w remains. So we are basically playing a unplayable version of BDO.

This. So very, very, much this!

They promised us a game with no "pay to win", and then they gave us a P2W game with the "pay" taken out.

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Posted

Yeah brother the Rng really sucks bad. But after really thinking about it , what I started to do is grind out the gold and just buy the stuff off ah if you can snipe it .. Too many stuff destroyed enchanting and  much gold being lost. So at least if I buy it and my money is gone I got what I wanted instead of destroying it or being rolled back . 

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Posted

Yeah brother the Rng really sucks bad. But after really thinking about it , what I started to do is grind out the gold and just buy the stuff off ah if you can snipe it .. Too many stuff destroyed enchanting and  much gold being lost. So at least if I buy it and my money is gone I got what I wanted instead of destroying it or being rolled back . 

To do this you basically need to be outgeared a lot by those competitive players. Like in kr every competitive player has +19/20s so that you can buy +18s from market place to save ur enchanting money. If that is the case then you will still need to suck the rng shit to enchant to +19/20 in order to be competitive.

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Posted

I also went into the 40+ range for the FS's going for 13-15 on my 3 parts boss gear. 

OP: how many stacks did you use for your +13-15? 

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Posted

yes it's gambling and yes gambling is generally not a smart thing to do, but it's also fun (for some). Or do you go to the casino and expect to make profit?

I'm always really happy if an Enchantement succeeds, but i don't give a f. if anything fails.

If you don't like gambling just buy your stuff from the marketplace.....

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Posted

Unfortunately, the gear upgrade system is designed like so many other things in this game: to annoy / frustrate you into spending money. It's whole game was built with p2w in mind, and even if they try to steer things in a slightly different direction here, they didn't rebuild the entire game and I don't expect that they're going to.

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Posted

This. So very, very, much this!

They promised us a game with no "pay to win", and then they gave us a P2W game with the "win" taken out.

fixed.

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Posted

It's almost comical to see people coming up with their own theories to try explain this crappy system. In my experience I have had really bad luck at +15. I have been stuck on Liverto and Body piece at +14 forever. It doesn't matter if i have 5, or 15 or 40 fail stacks, they never upgrade.

So there you have it, there are not enough theories or mathematical analyses that can justify this piece of sh!t progression mechanic. 

It's almost the same (if not exactly the same) as trying to crack the chance at winning in Black Jack or Poker at a really shady Casino.

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Posted

Sometimes i get the feeling the game will end on dec31. Because almost everyone is pushing.

I never have time to grind. Besides getting all node managers i have nothing done in Medhia, Valencia or the ocean.

I'm busy adventuring all the life skill options. In no other MMO i have found a profession system this deep and profitable, and a comparably stable, reliable market.

When time comes i probably get all the BiS of now for peanuts.

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Posted

Well, everyone can't buy their stuff from the Auction House. That's not really a solution.

I've been doing that for quite a while, but it's getting tougher. Currently on Orwen there are no Livertos between +7 and DUO for either Musa/Maehwa, Tamer, or Ninja/Kunoichi (and maybe others, but that's what I'm leveling right now). It's simply a case of supply and demand, and as more people opt out of ridiculous RNG the suppliers won't keep up.

 

Mind you, they don't have to change any code to fix this, they just need to adjust some numbers already in the code.

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Posted

I just failed tri my mainhand the 9th time 10 minutes ago. And my offhand failed to +16 6 times. This system is designed in such a way that you would rage purchase everything with ur real money. No one in their right mind would accept less reward with the equal amount of work. The only way to bypass rng is to buy the gear with real money.

The problem with NA version is that they removed the p2w items in the cash shop and yet the rng system designed for p2w remains. So we are basically playing a unplayable version of BDO. In KR we would failstack up to 10/20 and purchase a valk's cry to start enchanting for pri/duo, in our version without valks cry we are forced to enchant without reaching the fs cap and failstacking with hard/sharp. Also in KR there are sellable memory fragements, we dont have them here. With those in mind, Id say in NA they should reduce the repair cost of memory fragements by a lot and increase the enchantment success rate so that we can actually be in par in kr players.

But hey, guess what, they are eventually gonna introduce valk's cry due to heavy demand from people like me. They'd make u mad and cry for p2w. That is the whole point of rng system.

LOL all those lucky mudforkers trying to defend this rng piece of shit makes me even more mad. 

It's exactly that a copy of an old gimmick system.

Similar systems:

* +20 enchant

* Very Low Rate

* Cha Ching! Cash shop item: Safe Enchants (prevents destruction of items)

* Cha Ching! Cash shop item: Higher success rate

* Cha Ching! Cash shop item: Prevents lowering of enchant

I can't Cha Ching! see anything Cha Ching! wrong with the System Cha Ching!

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Posted

To do this you basically need to be outgeared a lot by those competitive players. Like in kr every competitive player has +19/20s so that you can buy +18s from market place to save ur enchanting money. If that is the case then you will still need to suck the rng shit to enchant to +19/20 in order to be competitive.

yeah for now at least . And I am undergeard at the moment.  So for now ill buy on ah. And I'm on edan so there is a lot of of stuff being posted. 

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Posted

But when it comes to gear progression, PA can shove it up their ass. I am sure that not everyone agrees with my opinion, as it is my opinion. 

Getting DUO gear is easy as f-ck. TRI gear is a little more difficult and is the competitive standard. As someone who's made many TRI gear sets I know very well what it takes whether that's boss or normal gear. The gear progression system could be better but it's hardly broken. For all the complaining about RNG and cost to get some decent gear the reality is simple. Many other MMOs make you trash and get new gear update after update. However, in BDO once you get to TRI there is no need to worry about gear any longer if you do not wish to. When comparing the two types of games BDO makes you spend less time actually grinding gear overall. 

BDO also offers players the option to go past the standard and aim for TET or PEN at great cost to the player. Sure the RNG is disgusting but it's an option other games do not have. Normally you get the best gear and your progression ends. Upgrading gear suffers from exponentially diminishing returns that allows a players time spent in game to mean something no matter how small. This is a feature of Black Desert and a positive one for players who enjoy progression and growth. I hate to break it to many players... but those are typical elements of MMORPG's. If you want PvP without character growth or progression factoring in, this genre isn't it.

The biggest danger with BDO's enchanting system is for players who can't say no. They don't know when to stop. They end up imploding their own gear and sometimes even quit because of it. Some call this a problem with BDO but it's actually a problem with the player.

RNG is not lazy or bad game design. Some players must think MMORPG developers have endless time and a limitless budget to work with. These massive games can't be new and exciting every minute of every day. Repetition is common and imo justified. BDO uses RNG to raise the ceiling of progression to dizzying heights. A system without RNG and one replaced with larger and larger numbers for completion isn't any better imo.

Sure BDO suffers from too much RNG and weak PvE but no game is perfect. All BDO really needs to do is find a better balance between the two. Progression should be tied to an ever increasing difficulty level of content with a smaller emphasis on RNG. But even with what i've suggested players will complain because there is no answer that suits everyone. Personally i'd hate a game that removed all RNG.

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Posted

Don't get me wrong, I love a good gamble. I used to gamble a lot when I played Cs:Go, I would win some and lose some and that's expected of gambling, you can't always expect to come out on top, but the way enchantment punishes you in BDO is just absurd.

Now, saying this I have full Duo gear, and Tri Liverto wep, as stated above I love a bit of gambling, what I do not enjoy is how punishing the system is in this game in some cases.

For example, when enchanting an accessory if you fail guess what, they will both break and you just lost both pieces of accessories you were hoping to enchant, this in my opinion is the shittiest thing in the enchantment system of BDO. I don't mind the Tri RnG, it took me about 5-6 tries to make my Liverto Tri and that's where it will stay till I get a Zarka and hopefully make that Tet.

I don't want them to change the way enchantment is in BDO just make it so it is less punishing, like I get it, Tri and above are supposed to be only for the "hardcore" players but when 4-5 guilds are the only ones with those gears "for the most part" we will have a repeat of what happened with Veritas being the power house of the server and camping every boss and not allowing anyone to get anything and just Pk anyone who tries to go near the loot.

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Posted

Or do you go to the casino and expect to make profit?

I dont expect B2P game to be veritable casino even in a cash shop though.

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Posted

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Posted

I dont expect B2P game to be veritable casino even in a cash shop though.

It's a Korean MMO. Gotta expect these things... BUT if you are referring to the horse reset skill coupons, I agree with you 100% still. Spending real money on a cash shop item to change a skill should change the skill to something besides what you already have. It shouldn't' be completely RNG if you're paying for it.

BUT as I said before, it's a Korean MMO so it is what it is x) 

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Posted

It's a Korean MMO. Gotta expect these things... BUT if you are referring to the horse reset skill coupons, I agree with you 100% still. Spending real money on a cash shop item to change a skill should change the skill to something besides what you already have. It shouldn't' be completely RNG if you're paying for it.

BUT as I said before, it's a Korean MMO so it is what it is x) 

Yeah, that is exactly what I am referring to. I dont even believe its completely RNG anymore, I am starting to believe it is actually rigged to make you spend more.

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