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Business > Game

63 posts in this topic

Posted

Daum is publisher also in Korea and forcing changes to original game design from long time.

Because of this changes most PvP community already left. Most PvE community will leave tomorrow.

 

Source?

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Posted

Daum is publisher also in Korea and forcing changes to original game design from long time.

Kakao are the publisher, not the developer. ANY changes come through PA as they are the owners of the game. Think of it this way, you are renting a place and want to paint the walls a different colour. You talk to the landlord and he/she gives you the go ahead to do it. Sure, you made the change but you still had to get permission from the owner. PA are the owners of the game, Kakao merely have the license to publish it from them so ANY changes happen with PA's permission and this means the game design isn't changing nor is it being "destroyed" as you claimed. 

We've already seen in EU/NA how Kakao listen to feedback from the community when making changes. Just because they ignore or don't make a change that ONE part of the community doesn't like doesn't mean they aren't doing what another part of the community wants.

If you're not happy with the changes, then leave. :) 

Because of this changes most PvP community already left.

Source? If you don't provide evidence for your claims then you are lying for attention.

Most PvE community will leave tomorrow.

Source? If you don't provide evidence for your claims then you are lying for attention.

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Posted (edited)

Source?

http://black-desert.com/articles/black-desert-how-we-were-expect-it-to-be-and-how-it-is-now/

 

Kakao are the publisher, not the developer. ANY changes come through PA as they are the owners of the game. Think of it this way, you are renting a place and want to paint the walls a different colour. You talk to the landlord and he/she gives you the go ahead to do it. Sure, you made the change but you still had to get permission from the owner. PA are the owners of the game, Kakao merely have the license to publish it from them so ANY changes happen with PA's permission and this means the game design isn't changing nor is it being "destroyed" as you claimed. 

We've already seen in EU/NA how Kakao listen to feedback from the community when making changes. Just because they ignore or don't make a change that ONE part of the community doesn't like doesn't mean they aren't doing what another part of the community wants.

If you're not happy with the changes, then leave. :) 

Source? If you don't provide evidence for your claims then you are lying for attention.

Source? If you don't provide evidence for your claims then you are lying for attention.

Publisher - pay and make business decisions and order changes. Refuse add ordered changes from developer may affect break the contract. Exactly as it had place with Sudden Attack 2 half month ago.

http://forum.blackdesertonline.com/index.php?/forum/10-guild/ - 80% PvP guilds are dead.

Tommorow is Legion release.

Edited by Hekki

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Posted

Daum is publisher also in Korea and forcing changes to original game design from long time.

Because of this changes most PvP community already left. Most PvE community will leave tomorrow.

 

Good to know you, your imaginary friend, your pets, your maid, and your characters are leaving the game.

Anything else you want to add?

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Posted

Publisher - pay and make business decisions and order changes. Refuse add ordered changes from developer may affect break the contract. Exactly as it had place with Sudden Attack 2 half month ago.

A developer is the one who owns the game, refusal to add content means the contract CAN be ended and a new publisher found. You seem to be confusing yourself and thinking that KaKao are the developer. 

http://forum.blackdesertonline.com/index.php?/forum/10-guild/ - 80% PvP guilds are dead.

Not a source, you have no figures or statements to back up your claim. How do you know that guilds aren't full? Or that there aren't new guilds? Or that people aren't in guilds? You have no sources, so you're lying for attention. :) 

Tommorow is Legion release.

Source that "most" will leave please?

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Posted

Kakao are the publisher, not the developer. ANY changes come through PA as they are the owners of the game. Think of it this way, you are renting a place and want to paint the walls a different colour. You talk to the landlord and he/she gives you the go ahead to do it. Sure, you made the change but you still had to get permission from the owner. PA are the owners of the game, Kakao merely have the license to publish it from them so ANY changes happen with PA's permission and this means the game design isn't changing nor is it being "destroyed" as you claimed. 

We've already seen in EU/NA how Kakao listen to feedback from the community when making changes. Just because they ignore or don't make a change that ONE part of the community doesn't like doesn't mean they aren't doing what another part of the community wants.

If you're not happy with the changes, then leave. :) 

Source? If you don't provide evidence for your claims then you are lying for attention.

Source? If you don't provide evidence for your claims then you are lying for attention.

Plunge cut the misleading bullshit example.

This is a business contract, there is likely a very deep and lengthy contract involved here. Which likely nullifies the "simple" example of landlord vs renter example. 

Kakao could "merely" have a license, but it likely has wording that allows Kakao to effect by contractual force some changes to the product. BUT we cannot say for certain without viewing said contract. 


While you can constantly ask for sources, that doesn't change that he/she "could" be correct. Congratulations on wanting evidence to be sure. But be warned taking that stance to far could lead you to asking for a source as the very thing you're blinding yourself to happens. 

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Posted

Every game is a business. Not every business has to be in-your-face money grab and rigged to make you frustrated enough to spend though.

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Posted (edited)

Yeah... obviously shortly after April 2015 the korean server shut down due to depopulation right?

We've already seen in EU/NA how Kakao listen to feedback from the community when making changes. Just because they ignore or don't make a change that ONE part of the community doesn't like doesn't mean they aren't doing what another part of the community wants.

Like what, since launch?

The one and only example I can think of outside of making adjustments planned before launch is the potion to nullify camo. Nothing really comes to mind otherwise.

Edited by bakimono

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Posted

 

Most PvE community will leave tomorrow.

 

I will check with you, "tomorrow". I really hope you are right or, oh boy, how silly are you going to look in front of all these people.

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Posted (edited)

When EU got a bonus to life skill EXP, some members of the NA community complained and Kakao decided to give NA the life skill bonus as well.

There were complaints about the game being overrun with hackers, so rather than just start paying a lot more attention to hackers they acknowledge the feedback and launched the hacker hunting initiative.

Despite closing the pre-order issue, they still acknowledge that some people were unhappy with the outcome and decided to re-open the issue.

They extended the refund period for the Maehwa costume when people complained.

Listened to community feedback, reached out to the developer and then posted the reply.

Reassured the community that Valk's Cry would not come to our region.

These are just from the news section of the forums, there are more threads in other sections (like the auto-looping thread) that show how KaKao EU not only listen to the community but also making changes and take actions based on the feedback. 

1.) So they recognized an error on their part and evened it out for the community? I guess that's kind of listening...

2.) Oh please, they had to do that because they screwed up bad making the game so vulnerable and they knew leaving it unaddressed would destroy their game. They didn't fix that because the community demanded it, that was high priority *and* people were complaining.

3.) They re-opened the issue because they understood it left them actionable in court. That's listening to their wallet and legal advisers not the community.

4.) See 3

5.) That is so not listening to feedback and implementing anything. That's just passing the feedback and passing back the answers.

6.) That was announced before the beta cycles and they just restated it.

You gave *one* example of them listening and zero examples of them actually making any community driven changes.


I don't think anyone would genuinely call "doing something to not get sued" listening to their customers.

Edited by bakimono
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Posted

Stop thinking DAUM is the little brother in their business deal.

Daum is the HUGE company with all the power, pearl abyss is a tiny development studio.  When Daum says, do this, then pearl abyss is the one that jumps to attention, not the other way around.

Here is the thing, though. The Daum, or Kakao, that we directly communicate with (Jouska, Aethon, Tytyes, etc) are part of the subsidiary company Kakao Games EU. We do not directly communicate with the parent company, we communicate with one of the parent company's subsidiaries.

The two companies, Daum and Kakao had a merger back in 2014 to Daum Kakao and then in 2015 it rebranded to Kakao. So while sure you're not exactly -technically- wrong, you're still wrong. Daum doesn't exist anymore, the only thing that was left of it we the fact that BDO's NA/EU based publisher was called Daum Games EU. It has since rebranded to a more appropriate name. 

Complaining about the parent company, of which we have zero direct communication with, and -----ing and moaning about them -here- isn't exactly doing anything. It's a bit confusing, I know, because of all the rebranding and the merger and everything but maybe be a bit more accurate before you start pointing your rifle at anything. Or maybe just don't do that at all and chill out a bit. Differing opinions about business decisions aside, it -is- still a business. I don't agree entirely with the decisions and schedules they've laid out but at the same time MMORPGs are ever evolving products and mistakes will happen along the way. Welcome to the humans.

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Posted

If the contract states that Daum has little control, guess -----ing what? Daum has little control. Money matters sure. But so does agreements. *Well other than agreements daum seems to make to consumers.

The guys that created BDO at Pearl Abyss have been replaced with Kakao folks from their mobile division. I don't think you fully realize who runs who in this situation. The head of pearl abyss was allowed to stay on, but is not working on that project anymore.

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Posted

The guys that created BDO at Pearl Abyss have been replaced with Kakao folks from their mobile division. I don't think you fully realize who runs who in this situation. The head of pearl abyss was allowed to stay on, but is not working on that project anymore.

Do you have the source for this?

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Posted

It is exactly opposite. The Daum is company what destroyed orginal design of the game and is responsible for casualisation game.

I am sorry, but lackluster PvP arenas and lack of PvP mods is....Daum's fault? 

Wow....thanks for the news...

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Posted (edited)

Do you have the source for this?

This happened end of may, start of june. It was on the KR forums back then. It is just too much effort at the moment to translate and search again. In my defense though, even the white knights wont disagree.

Edit: Bah Humbug, I will try and find links tonight, time permitting.

Edited by Mystafyi

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Posted

This happened end of may, start of june. It was on the KR forums back then. It is just too much effort at the moment to translate and search again. In my defense though, even the white knights wont disagree.

I must have missed this piece. So Brian Oh is no longer leading the oversea development at PA? 

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Posted

Black Desert isn't a game in Korea. It's a business.

 

Are you kidding me? They are artists! Black Desert Online is a work of art. They don't care about money.

If you don't know what I'm talking about check out the PvtWiggles interview.

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Posted (edited)

Stop thinking DAUM is the little brother in their business deal.

Daum is the HUGE company with all the power, pearl abyss is a tiny development studio.  When Daum says, do this, then pearl abyss is the one that jumps to attention, not the other way around.

Wrong!  First of all Pearl Abyss invented/Created the game and it's their bread an butter. They are located in a HUGE building in North Korea.  PA sought out publishers/Distributors for the game ONLY as a publisher. Pearl Abyss has complete control of how their product is distributed just how you don't own your operating system if using Windows. If you want something changed in your copy of Windows, you cannot just call Microsoft and insist they change something. Same thing here.

Kakao has control on how it's distributed and PA has complete control on what's distributed.  Actually, PA has a lot to do with how and where it's distributed also. Kakao wanted to expand distribution to another Country a while back and PA said no. It's ONLY a licensing agreement between to two companies.

I don't know about how many employees Kakao has, but Pearl Abyss at last count was over 50 programmers for Black Desert alone according to corporate public records. You should see the studio setups they have for recording the animations on the 3rd floor. Amazing! Anyway, as I said, PA owns the game and Kakao just publishes it to our market. Not much say so when it comes to content. PA has the final word.

EDIT:  With a little research you would have found that Daum games only employs between 11 and 40 employees at any given time and at least count before turning things over to Kakao they only had 19 employees. MUCH smaller company than Pearl Abyss. PLEASE do your research before posting inaccurate information!

Edited by mijorious

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Posted (edited)

 

I actually believe Daum (EU) meant well and wanted to bring us what they said they did.

At least you can see the light in that statement.

Most people on here think everyone and anyone affiliated with BDO looks something along the lines of this -


Image result for lotr smaug gif

 

Edited by Heliosk

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Posted

The guys that created BDO at Pearl Abyss have been replaced with Kakao folks from their mobile division. I don't think you fully realize who runs who in this situation. The head of pearl abyss was allowed to stay on, but is not working on that project anymore.

I fail to see how that in any way nullifies a contract?

Also I'd love to see a link for some reference. Was PA purchased? Hostile takeover? BS?

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Posted

1.) So they recognized an error on their part and evened it out for the community? I guess that's kind of listening...

It's not "kind of listening", it's listening to community feedback. Some members of the community had an issue and Kakao acted on it.


2.) Oh please, they had to do that because they screwed up bad making the game so vulnerable and they knew leaving it unaddressed would destroy their game. They didn't fix that because the community demanded it, that was high priority *and* people were complaining.

Please read what I typed, I know you like to claim that it's pointless to read my arguments (because you can't refute them) but I clearly state that they didn't need to interact with the community or even let the community know what they were doing. 


3.) They re-opened the issue because they understood it left them actionable in court. That's listening to their wallet and legal advisers not the community.

Source of it being actionable in court? Last I checked the ToS clearly states that you are merely paying for a game license, not any bonuses. 


5.) That is so not listening to feedback and implementing anything. That's just passing the feedback and passing back the answers.

So they didn't listen to feedback by listening to feedback? lolwhut? If they didn't listen to the feedback how did they even know to pass the feedback on and get a reply? Or are you trying to claim that they just copy past the entire forum over to PA without reading it? 


6.) That was announced before the beta cycles and they just restated it.

Odd that the post clearly stated 

"Recently there has been a concern that the item Valk's Cry would be available in our version of Black Desert. Specifically this is in response to the following image that is being circulated."

Goddammit Kakao! You need to stop ignoring feedback by listening to it! 

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Posted

Please read what I typed

K

We've already seen in EU/NA how Kakao listen to feedback from the community when making changes. Just because they ignore or don't make a change that ONE part of the community doesn't like doesn't mean they aren't doing what another part of the community wants.

when making changes.

So as soon as you bring a point to the table, any point, that actually addresses my post I'll consider it.

Like I said, you showed one post where they kind of listened to players and made an effort to fix a mistake they made.

The rest were the result of something already decided, or that they found themselves to be in a high risk for being actionable... But that's not really relevant because I didn't ask you about that.


P.S. if you really like I can cite you EU law about false advertisement since you didn't seem to understand why Kakao resolved the horse issue but I figured that'd be beating a dead t5 conqueror's horse considering it was raging on the forums for awhile.

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Posted

We know it's a business.

They're just doing bad service to their customers.

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Posted

This game is a business? 

 

You've got to be kidding me...

this game is purely designed as a public service justto keep me entertained, everything they do must be in my best intrests and under no circumstance make and profit. 

 

 

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