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Gear Score Calculator, NOW WITH AWAKENING!


99 posts in this topic

Posted

I did do a real test. It's a 30s test, ask a guildmate with an awakened class.

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Posted (edited)

 I didn't say you didn't...

Would be interesting to see a real test.

Saying "I tested it" and no more is hardly much to go on, is it? Sadly I haven't had the time to play lately so I can't confirm it, but if it's not proven by the time my schedule clears up (likely a week or so) I'd be happy to.

Edited by Zephan

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Posted

Most of the values and calculation in here is not true. Best example being +human damage which is not treated like ap. The proof is that yuria is not as good or better than liverto in the state of our game. I heard rumors it was like that on kr way back but it is not like that now.

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Posted (edited)

Most of the values and calculation in here is not true. Best example being +human damage which is not treated like ap. The proof is that yuria is not as good or better than liverto in the state of our game. I heard rumors it was like that on kr way back but it is not like that now.

With a statement like that you got to back it up. All the data used in the tool is the latest and up to date, all tests are growing increasingly predictable thanks to the current data irrelevant of this tool. SO before you come in here with a statement you got to back it up, meanwhile you are just ignored.

Also before you flip your table remember this is a gearscore tool and its goal is NOT to reveal Damage formulai or show or the deepest darkest secrets of this game. It's goal is just to provide a far more accurate analysis of someones gear rather than just stupidly adding the inventory AP and DP together.

Edited by remilafo

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Posted (edited)

With a statement like that you got to back it up. All the data used in the tool is the latest and up to date, all tests are growing increasingly predictable thanks to the current data irrelevant of this tool. SO before you come in here with a statement you got to back it up, meanwhile you are just ignored.

Also before you flip your table remember this is a gearscore tool and its goal is NOT to reveal Damage formulai or show or the deepest darkest secrets of this game. It's goal is just to provide a far more accurate analysis of someones gear rather than just stupidly adding the inventory AP and DP together.

Google about yuria nerf.

A tri yuria axe would have 109,5ap and a liverto 108ap. Comparing both without sockets damage is higher on liverto, a lot of people tried. Hitrate is a factor but they tried with enough gear to get to high hitrates.

The same is with our hand cannon, dandelon does more damage than blue buster. If this calcs stats were right it would only be a 3ap difference on pirate, sausan, pvp but it is more of a damage difference.

I will do another 1-5tries to tri my dande today and might go and compare in the following days but from what i saw somebody hit me with dande is more damage than 3ap worth.

 

Not saying its all bad but human damage is not as strong, period. This makes for an inaccurate comparison of gear strength, kzarka is less good than portraied (not even sure about 10human dmg there but i cant comment on that one atm)and dande is better.

Edited by iloveKuchen

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Posted

Evasion and damge reducion are their own values and not added into your shown DP

Accuracy values as you have them listed are wildly inaccurate for those items

Damage output is dependant on

AP(skill modifier)=x

Skill modifiers run anywhere between 100 and 1500%

Accuracy only increases the value of x by some percentage per hit.

So lets take an example

player 1 does a base attack damage vs DP 100 of 200 and has a base chance to hit 30%

He uses 3 attacks

Attack 1 (200% modifier)=400

Attack 2 (100% modifier)=200

Attack 3 (1000% modifier)=4000

total damage potential=4600 damage

He has +30 Acc which yeids a 2/3 chance to hit

A1 hit

A2 hit

A3 miss

Actual damage Output=600 Damage

Accuracy and Evasion are part of the "to hit" mechanism. As such they do not share a 1:1 correlation with damage output values.

Damage output is entirely a matter of AP/DP HD, DR, Skill modifier

 

 

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Posted (edited)

Google about yuria nerf.

A tri yuria axe would have 109,5ap and a liverto 108ap. Comparing both without sockets damage is higher on liverto, a lot of people tried. Hitrate is a factor but they tried with enough gear to get to high hitrates.

where you getting that? Yuria only have +9 HD at ultimate and at Tri.  Still lower virtual AP than Liverto. 

The same is with our hand cannon, dandelon does more damage than blue buster. If this calcs stats were right it would only be a 3ap difference on pirate, sausan, pvp but it is more of a damage difference.

I will do another 1-5 tries to tri my dande today and might go and compare in the following days but from what i saw somebody hit me with dande is more damage than 3ap worth.

Not saying its all bad but human damage is not as strong, period. This makes for an inaccurate comparison of gear strength, kzarka is less good than portraied (not even sure about 10human dmg there but i cant comment on that one atm)and dande is better.

I still standby it being about the same, i haven't found a test yet where the difference in dmg is out of "margin of error" which for me is 5% . For the purposes on this gearscore tool it works fine.

 

Evasion and damge reducion are their own values and not added into your shown DP

- Nope they are DP.. Not only can this be seen ON GEAR IN GAME. But if you really want more proof there is this report.  

https://www.reddit.com/r/blackdesertonline/comments/4iuhel/dp_damage_reduction_scaling_calculations/

 

Accuracy values as you have them listed are wildly inaccurate for those items

- this is a possibility, but if you're so smart what are they then?     until you can show i will keep true to the research i have made.

Damage output is dependant on

AP(skill modifier)=x

Skill modifiers run anywhere between 100 and 1500%

Accuracy only increases the value of x by some percentage per hit.

So lets take an example

player 1 does a base attack damage vs DP 100 of 200 and has a base chance to hit 30%

He uses 3 attacks

Attack 1 (200% modifier)=400

Attack 2 (100% modifier)=200

Attack 3 (1000% modifier)=4000

total damage potential=4600 damage

He has +30 Acc which yeids a 2/3 chance to hit

A1 hit

A2 hit

A3 miss

Actual damage Output=600 Damage

Accuracy and Evasion are part of the "to hit" mechanism. As such they do not share a 1:1 correlation with damage output values.

Damage output is entirely a matter of AP/DP HD, DR, Skill modifier

- REMINDER: Gearscore tool not dmg formula, im not making any claim about dmg formulai. so whatare you talking about here and what point are you trying to make?

 

 

This just in.....   https://docs.google.com/document/d/1H4M9vXw3xV0NwLO1xvqDMu-KVRY9CWLY5dccHt0oDOQ/mobilebasic

Will be reviewing this later and maybe updating my formulas in the document.

 

Edited by remilafo

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Posted

+18 Liverto Axe
 
iconEquipment
Total AP: 106 ~ 110 
DP: 0 
Weight: 16.50 LT

 

+18 Ultimate Yuria Axe
 
iconEquipment
Total AP: 96 ~ 105 
DP: 0 

 

106+110 / 2 = 108

96+105 /2 = 100,5... + 9HD = 109,5

I dont get what u want, thats more ap maybe i misunderstood something u said about human damage, i understood it adds to the ap and is treated like normal ap, which from my personal experience isnt the case.

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Posted

 So, I was looking at this again today because I was hoping to find accuracy values for some green weapons, and I noticed some things that conflict with recent testing:

Hidden accuracy notes:
- Bheg gloves +15@15. +18@tri
- Yuria +12@15, +15@Tri
- Liverto +22@15, +25@Tri

If you look at testing done by FluffyDough on reddit, these values seem incorrect. Firstly, Bheg's was nerfed with one of the awakening patches (this happened in KR around then too, so it's no surprise), and only gives ~7-13 Acc at DUO, so that needs to be re-tested at various enchants and updated. More importantly, their testing shows that a TRI Kzarka has about 50 more Acc than a +0 Yuria, which means it would have more than +50 Acc at TRI given that Yuria has some base Acc at +0. If hihey's testing about Kzarka only being around 4-8 Acc higher than Liverto is still accurate, there's someone here who is dramatically wrong.

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Posted

Evasion and damge reducion are their own values and not added into your shown DP

- Nope they are DP.. Not only can this be seen ON GEAR IN GAME. But if you really want more proof there is this report.  

https://www.reddit.com/r/blackdesertonline/comments/4iuhel/dp_damage_reduction_scaling_calculations/

 

Accuracy values as you have them listed are wildly inaccurate for those items

- this is a possibility, but if you're so smart what are they then?     until you can show i will keep true to the research i have made.

Damage output is dependant on

AP(skill modifier)=x

Skill modifiers run anywhere between 100 and 1500%

Accuracy only increases the value of x by some percentage per hit.

So lets take an example

player 1 does a base attack damage vs DP 100 of 200 and has a base chance to hit 30%

He uses 3 attacks

Attack 1 (200% modifier)=400

Attack 2 (100% modifier)=200

Attack 3 (1000% modifier)=4000

total damage potential=4600 damage

He has +30 Acc which yeids a 2/3 chance to hit

A1 hit

A2 hit

A3 miss

Actual damage Output=600 Damage

Accuracy and Evasion are part of the "to hit" mechanism. As such they do not share a 1:1 correlation with damage output values.

Damage output is entirely a matter of AP/DP HD, DR, Skill modifier

- REMINDER: Gearscore tool not dmg formula, im not making any claim about dmg formulai. so whatare you talking about here and what point are you trying to make?

 

Ok, just tested it in game. Any other player can easily do the same.

DP and Evasion are seperate stats except in rare specific circumstances (which are clearly denoted in skill/item descriptions)

Remove all your armor.

put on a helmet, take note of the DP shown.

put in a +evasion crystal notice no change in dp value shown

take off your helmet and put on some armor, take note of your dp. Add a damage reduction crystal. No change in shown DP

AP and Accuracy are seperate stats.

Equip any weapon, take note of your AP value.

Put on an +Acc trinket, no change in shown AP value.

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Posted

I've updated the OP to include the KNOWN results from this series of tests.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1H4M9vXw3xV0NwLO1xvqDMu-KVRY9CWLY5dccHt0oDOQ/mobilebasic

I have some thoughts on accuracy and evasion though, I've review ALL of the testing done from reddit and here and even some korea sites and from what i can tell the testing methodology was good which means the results are trustworthy. 

So then the question is if all the results are good how are they different? 

The most logical answer that i can provide is that the developers of this game use the hidden statistics to balance the combat system and adjust gear as the gear curve keeps progressing. So when it comes to the gear score calculator just use the accuracy numbers that are most recent, thankfully it's really the only hidden stat we have to worry about the others like human dmg arn't used much or play less importance.

 

+18 Liverto Axe
 
iconEquipment
Total AP: 106 ~ 110 
DP: 0 
Weight: 16.50 LT

 

+18 Ultimate Yuria Axe
 
iconEquipment
Total AP: 96 ~ 105 
DP: 0 

 

106+110 / 2 = 108

96+105 /2 = 100,5... + 9HD = 109,5

I dont get what u want, thats more ap maybe i misunderstood something u said about human damage, i understood it adds to the ap and is treated like normal ap, which from my personal experience isnt the case.

I haven't found any testing yet that shows a "statistically" significant difference in the damage they deliver. People just keep giving their subjective opinions. AND the only real test out there for Human dmg was done by hineyhiney54 which showed them to be virtually identical.

 So, I was looking at this again today because I was hoping to find accuracy values for some green weapons, and I noticed some things that conflict with recent testing:

If you look at testing done by FluffyDough on reddit, these values seem incorrect. Firstly, Bheg's was nerfed with one of the awakening patches (this happened in KR around then too, so it's no surprise), and only gives ~7-13 Acc at DUO, so that needs to be re-tested at various enchants and updated. More importantly, their testing shows that a TRI Kzarka has about 50 more Acc than a +0 Yuria, which means it would have more than +50 Acc at TRI given that Yuria has some base Acc at +0. If hihey's testing about Kzarka only being around 4-8 Acc higher than Liverto is still accurate, there's someone here who is dramatically wrong.

Yep i made my comments about these changes at the start of the long post. Some updates are needed.

Ok, just tested it in game. Any other player can easily do the same.

DP and Evasion are seperate stats except in rare specific circumstances (which are clearly denoted in skill/item descriptions)

Remove all your armor.

put on a helmet, take note of the DP shown.

put in a +evasion crystal notice no change in dp value shown

take off your helmet and put on some armor, take note of your dp. Add a damage reduction crystal. No change in shown DP

AP and Accuracy are seperate stats.

Equip any weapon, take note of your AP value.

Put on an +Acc trinket, no change in shown AP value.

Im starting to think you are just trolling me or really REALLY missing something. Maybe it's a language barrier but i will try one more time.
DP is literally the SUMMATION of your Evasion and Dmg reduction.
So yes DP and evasion are not the same but they are intrinsically linked.
If i said to you this item gives 1 dp.. you don't know if thats 1 evasion or 1 Dmg reduction. But instead if i said this item gives 1 Evasion, you for sure know that it's 1 dp.

The other thing i think you are missing is how this game Hides some stats and shows/advertises others. Unfortunately IT IS NOT CONSISTENT for even the same kind of item. So if you are looking for a Hard and fast rule concerning what stats are hidden and which ones are show/advertised then sadly you won't find one.

I can somewhat generalize for you, hopefully this will help. The bonuses provided from Set bonuses and crystals never show up on your inventory AP or DP. But they are working regardless hence that is why i have a column in the tool specific to putting your evasion and dmg reduction in there.

Now Evasion and Dmg Reduction DO SHOW UP as DP on individual items as Item effects and via enhancement. You can literally see this on a bunch of items in the game like krea offhands or offhands in general, Ultimate armors, muskan shoes, horse armor etc etc.  Do i really need to go on?

Please GET IT this time.. 

 

As for Accuracy and AP... yes they are different I never said they were the same but i think i know where i confused you. I stated in the OP that since Evasion is DP and hence Accuracy counters evasion so Accuracy can be considered AP. This position is VERY SPECIFIC to the gear score calculator when analyzing someones final gear score.

If someone had 200AP and 10 Accuracy hypothetically  when compared to
someone who has say 200AP and 30 Accuracy,  Clearly the Person with 200ap and 30 accuracy is likely to do more damage.

The Gear score algorithm takes this into consideration. It wouldn't be a complete gear score calculation if the algorithm just ignored accuracy.

So remember im keeping this topic specific to the gear score calculator. This threads purpose is NOT to reveal the damage formulai of this game or to give DEFINITIVE answers to what exactly does what, It's purpose is to provide a tool that gives a much more complete and accuracy gear score FAR better than just adding your inventory AP and DP together. Again all stated in the OP..

Peace.

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Posted

I've updated the OP to include the KNOWN results from this series of tests.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1H4M9vXw3xV0NwLO1xvqDMu-KVRY9CWLY5dccHt0oDOQ/mobilebasic

I have some thoughts on accuracy and evasion though, I've review ALL of the testing done from reddit and here and even some korea sites and from what i can tell the testing methodology was good which means the results are trustworthy. 

So then the question is if all the results are good how are they different? 

The most logical answer that i can provide is that the developers of this game use the hidden statistics to balance the combat system and adjust gear as the gear curve keeps progressing. So when it comes to the gear score calculator just use the accuracy numbers that are most recent, thankfully it's really the only hidden stat we have to worry about the others like human dmg arn't used much or play less importance.

 

I haven't found any testing yet that shows a "statistically" significant difference in the damage they deliver. People just keep giving their subjective opinions. AND the only real test out there for Human dmg was done by hineyhiney54 which showed them to be virtually identical.

Yep i made my comments about these changes at the start of the long post. Some updates are needed.

Im starting to think you are just trolling me or really REALLY missing something. Maybe it's a language barrier but i will try one more time.
DP is literally the SUMMATION of your Evasion and Dmg reduction.
So yes DP and evasion are not the same but they are intrinsically linked.
If i said to you this item gives 1 dp.. you don't know if thats 1 evasion or 1 Dmg reduction. But instead if i said this item gives 1 Evasion, you for sure know that it's 1 dp.

The other thing i think you are missing is how this game Hides some stats and shows/advertises others. Unfortunately IT IS NOT CONSISTENT for even the same kind of item. So if you are looking for a Hard and fast rule concerning what stats are hidden and which ones are show/advertised then sadly you won't find one.

I can somewhat generalize for you, hopefully this will help. The bonuses provided from Set bonuses and crystals never show up on your inventory AP or DP. But they are working regardless hence that is why i have a column in the tool specific to putting your evasion and dmg reduction in there.

Now Evasion and Dmg Reduction DO SHOW UP as DP on individual items as Item effects and via enhancement. You can literally see this on a bunch of items in the game like krea offhands or offhands in general, Ultimate armors, muskan shoes, horse armor etc etc.  Do i really need to go on?

Please GET IT this time.. 

 

As for Accuracy and AP... yes they are different I never said they were the same but i think i know where i confused you. I stated in the OP that since Evasion is DP and hence Accuracy counters evasion so Accuracy can be considered AP. This position is VERY SPECIFIC to the gear score calculator when analyzing someones final gear score.

If someone had 200AP and 10 Accuracy hypothetically  when compared to
someone who has say 200AP and 30 Accuracy,  Clearly the Person with 200ap and 30 accuracy is likely to do more damage.

The Gear score algorithm takes this into consideration. It wouldn't be a complete gear score calculation if the algorithm just ignored accuracy.

So remember im keeping this topic specific to the gear score calculator. This threads purpose is NOT to reveal the damage formulai of this game or to give DEFINITIVE answers to what exactly does what, It's purpose is to provide a tool that gives a much more complete and accuracy gear score FAR better than just adding your inventory AP and DP together. Again all stated in the OP..

Peace.

While I see where your argument is coming from I highly doubt that it works the way you described.

Simply because Accuracy and AP are not mathematically equivalent.

While Accuracy does add to the overall effectiveness of a weapon, HOW it does so is much different than how AP adds to the weapon's effectiveness.

Only in the very specific and unique circumstance where a player has 100 AP AND uses a skill that does 100 damage would 1AP=1Acc. (Assuming 1 Accuracy=1% increase in chance to hit. Which is also not the case.) For a vast majority of skills a player with 100AP will deal 200-400 damage per strike, this would render the effective value of+1 Accuracy to a range of 1AP=+2 Accuracy to +10 Accuracy

For a +15 weapon this would then give an effective range of +30 to +150 to the value of a weapon's AP.

Evidence shows that Accuracy scaling is not as dramatic as that.

Evidence also shows that additional accuracy has no effect on actual damage output. +30 Accuracy doesnt change 1 strike worth 1000 damage into one hit worth 1300 damage. What it does is allow the player to hit 6 out of ten times instead of three out of ten times, each for 1000 damage.

If Accuracy does not affect damage output, and damage dealt is a matter of AP vs DP scaling, the forumla involved in the damage calcultion would not allow for accuracy and AP values to be a combined integer value.

The mistae you are making is forgetting that Acc and Evasion stats rise concurrently as armor and weapons are enchanted, leaving what is essentially the same relative Accuracy vs Evasion value at +15 as it did before enchantment.

For two players with the same equipment at the same enchant level, Accuracy and evasion stats cancel out to essentially zero.. It is only when you switch up gear and use equipment with high acc boost than another, that +Acc and +Evasion even enter the equation at all.

So for standard green items, when you see the hidden accuracy boost stat mentioned in the item description, that boost is designed t correlate with the evasion/DR boost granted to armor of the same enchant level. So the final result of +15 armor and weapons vs +15 armor and weapons is that a player hits another player 30% of the time... (exactly the same as it was when the items were +0) However, if you put +0 armor and weapons vs +15 Armor and weapons, not only would you hit for more damage due to the AP/DP imbalance, but ALSO hit more often resulting in 45-50% hit rate vs your opponent insead of the 30% evenly geared players would expect.

So if you were to add in Accuracy to a single attack value for your calculator, it could only be valid when comparing to ether a baseline, or to a secific other player, at which point, their enchant level vs your enchant level would have to be caluclated, the Accuracy difference derived, and then ONLY the coefficient of that specific derived value would be added to AP, but even then, that value woul have a range of 2 to 10x the diffference in relative enchant values (and that is assuming identical gear... Boss gear vs normal gear, and this calculation becomes even more complex.)

There is no point in attempting to add accuracy to AP, one because it is inaccurate and 2, because it is mathematically untenable.

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Posted

While I see where your argument is coming from I highly doubt that it works the way you described.

Simply because Accuracy and AP are not mathematically equivalent.

I stopped reading after these two sentences because . THIS THREAD IS NOT ABOUT DAMAGE FORMULAS..

This gearscore tool does not care how you think accuracy and AP are mathematically similar or not. The only thing that is relevant here is incorporating accuracy into ones gearscore matters, accuracy is NOT irrelevant which is one of the failings of the "Simply add inventory AP + DP" = gearscore methodology. 

If you don't like how how im treating Accuracy in the algorithm then don't use this gearscore tool or propose a new formula.

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Posted (edited)

(Assuming 1 Accuracy=1% increase in chance to hit. Which is also not the case.)

It is the case according to every believable test published so far.

 

The mistae you are making is forgetting that Acc and Evasion stats rise concurrently as armor and weapons are enchanted, leaving what is essentially the same relative Accuracy vs Evasion value at +15 as it did before enchantment.

For two players with the same equipment at the same enchant level, Accuracy and evasion stats cancel out to essentially zero.. It is only when you switch up gear and use equipment with high acc boost than another, that +Acc and +Evasion even enter the equation at all.

So for standard green items, when you see the hidden accuracy boost stat mentioned in the item description, that boost is designed t correlate with the evasion/DR boost granted to armor of the same enchant level. So the final result of +15 armor and weapons vs +15 armor and weapons is that a player hits another player 30% of the time... (exactly the same as it was when the items were +0) However, if you put +0 armor and weapons vs +15 Armor and weapons, not only would you hit for more damage due to the AP/DP imbalance, but ALSO hit more often resulting in 45-50% hit rate vs your opponent insead of the 30% evenly geared players would expect.

Well, you would be correct except for the fact that different weapons and sets of armor give differing amounts of Acc and Eva per enchant. A Yuria for example has worse Acc than a Krea (but more raw damage against humans), and Rocaba for example has more Eva than Grunil (but less DR for when you do get hit).

Edited by Zephan

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Posted

It is the case according to every believable test published so far.

 

Well, you would be correct except for the fact that different weapons and sets of armor give differing amounts of Acc and Eva per enchant. A Yuria for example has worse Acc than a Krea (but more raw damage against humans), and Rocaba for example has more Eva than Grunil (but less DR for when you do get hit).

The rest of the formula takes those factors into account if you continue to read the rest of my pst.

it uses 1% for +1 acc as a baseline in the equation. It also explains that when you use different gearsets, the range of possible damage output becomes even larger.

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Posted

The rest of the formula takes those factors into account if you continue to read the rest of my pst.

it uses 1% for +1 acc as a baseline in the equation. It also explains that when you use different gearsets, the range of possible damage output becomes even larger.

I realize that you still used the assumption of 1 Acc = 1% hit for the rest of the post, but I was replying to the part prior where you said that's not how it works. It is.

And I don't think you're understanding what I'm saying about gear. Yes, you said that different gear would have different results, but you also very clearly said that enchanting equally provides the same ratio (i.e., and I quote, "So for standard green items, when you see the hidden accuracy boost stat mentioned in the item description, that boost is designed t correlate with the evasion/DR boost granted to armor of the same enchant level.") But since different pieces have different increases per enchant (and not just different tiers; the greens have very different ratios of Acc/Eva:AP/DP between them, without even considering blues and yellows), that is not remotely true. Let me give you an example:

In case 1, we have Bares (inaccurate) vs Rocaba (evasive): At +0, let's say Bares has a 30% chance to hit Rocaba. Since Rocaba's high evasion rises at a greater pace than Bares' low accuracy, by +15 that chance will have lowered significantly, let's say 20%.

Or case 2, Krea (accurate) vs Grunil (inevasive): At +0, let's say it would be the same 30% (close enough, there's little Acc or Eva at +0). By +15, it will have risen significantly, let's say 40%.

This is not "exactly the same as it was when the items were +0" at all. In short, there is no correlation.

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Posted (edited)

I realize that you still used the assumption of 1 Acc = 1% hit for the rest of the post, but I was replying to the part prior where you said that's not how it works. It is.

And I don't think you're understanding what I'm saying about gear. Yes, you said that different gear would have different results, but you also very clearly said that enchanting equally provides the same ratio (i.e., and I quote, "So for standard green items, when you see the hidden accuracy boost stat mentioned in the item description, that boost is designed t correlate with the evasion/DR boost granted to armor of the same enchant level.") But since different pieces have different increases per enchant (and not just different tiers; the greens have very different ratios of Acc/Eva:AP/DP between them, without even considering blues and yellows), that is not remotely true. Let me give you an example:

In case 1, we have Bares (inaccurate) vs Rocaba (evasive): At +0, let's say Bares has a 30% chance to hit Rocaba. Since Rocaba's high evasion rises at a greater pace than Bares' low accuracy, by +15 that chance will have lowered significantly, let's say 20%.

Or case 2, Krea (accurate) vs Grunil (inevasive): At +0, let's say it would be the same 30% (close enough, there's little Acc or Eva at +0). By +15, it will have risen significantly, let's say 40%.

This is not "exactly the same as it was when the items were +0" at all. In short, there is no correlation.

The control status was of two players with the same gear and same enchant level as a baseline for comparison.

ie 2 players each armed with liverto and vangertz, taritas armor, both +15 enchant strength.

Between those two, the base chance of hit should be the same as those two players if their same kit was +0 enchant.

after this baseline, quite obviously changes in acc or ev scores will affect the range of possible damage and strike outcomes.

This wide range is what renders any attemot to equate Acc with AP as a linked factor in your equation will lead to wildly inaccurate results.

The gearscore calc would be better served by seperating acc and ev scores from ap/dp and show the players how much extra chance to hit or not be hit they have based on that score.

Edited by LordOnichan

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Posted (edited)

The gearscore calc would be better served by seperating acc and ev scores from ap/dp and show the players how much extra chance to hit or not be hit they have based on that score.

Finally some common ground. :-)

But How?

It's already difficult to just ensure we have accurate numbers on accuracy and other hidden statistics. So I have thought about what you are proposing and basically these are the questions i need answered before a algorithm can be constructed.

1. I need to know EXACTLY how much accuracy a Attacker has?

2. I need to know EXACTLY how much evasion a Defender has?

3. I would like to know how much evasion and accuracy a level difference of 1,2,3,4 and 5 make? the most recent tests on this showed it to be just 1 point each per level but that test is very old now.

4. If a player has say 250DP how much of that is Damage reduction and how much of that is evasion and how can we find out?

 

If i can get answers to these questions i can definitely make a better tool and actually get a lot closer to start dissecting the combat formulas in this game. At minimum i would at least be able to plot out a graph showing the interaction of accuracy and evasion. Until then though i've done the best i can.

 

This wide range is what renders any attemot to equate Acc with AP as a linked factor in your equation will lead to wildly inaccurate results.

This is what keeps confusing me about your responses. 

Results of what though? what are you trying to solve?

Keeping to the OP of this thread the gear score calculator is pretty darn accurate (at least WAY WAY more accurate than just adding AP/DP together), Recall i used it for months hosting pvp tournaments before ever releasing it to these forums. 

Edited by remilafo

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Posted (edited)

Finally some common ground. :-)

But How?

It's already difficult to just ensure we have accurate numbers on accuracy and other hidden statistics. So I have thought about what you are proposing and basically these are the questions i need answered before a algorithm can be constructed.

1. I need to know EXACTLY how much accuracy a Attacker has?

2. I need to know EXACTLY how much evasion a Defender has?

3. I would like to know how much evasion and accuracy a level difference of 1,2,3,4 and 5 make? the most recent tests on this showed it to be just 1 point each per level but that test is very old now.

4. If a player has say 250DP how much of that is Damage reduction and how much of that is evasion and how can we find out?

 

If i can get answers to these questions i can definitely make a better tool and actually get a lot closer to start dissecting the combat formulas in this game. At minimum i would at least be able to plot out a graph showing the interaction of accuracy and evasion. Until then though i've done the best i can.

This is what keeps confusing me about your responses. 

Results of what though? what are you trying to solve?

Keeping to the OP of this thread the gear score calculator is pretty darn accurate (at least WAY WAY more accurate than just adding AP/DP together), Recall i used it for months hosting pvp tournaments before ever releasing it to these forums. 

It can be done if we set a common baseline.

Here are some assumptions that can be made with known observations about the game:

1. Hidden Accuracy gains/per enchant are different between tiers of gear green/blue/gold< liverto< Boss gear.

               Even between liverto and boss gear(kzarka) the last tests showed naught but a 1-3% difference at Tri. This means that you would start with a lower range in degrees of confidence by using the median value 2%

              Level based difference in chance to hit in the last known study shows a 2% per 10 level change in chnce to hit according to level. Meaning fr every ten levels of difference, the increase in chance to hit only increases 2% or .2% per level.

            For shown accuracy values (+5 Acc items etc) the simplest way would be to add 1% chance to hit per bonus level. Although combining the results of the all the known studies shows it to be closer to .65%. (or more specifically, starting at a range of 1% at +1 acc to a minimum of .5% at +20 to +30 shown accuracy value.)

 

Edited by LordOnichan

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Posted

It can be done if we set a common baseline.

Here are some assumptions that can be made with known observations about the game:

1. Hidden Accuracy gains/per enchant are different between tiers of gear green/blue/gold< liverto< Boss gear.

Yes this is known.

               Even between liverto and boss gear(kzarka) the last tests showed naught but a 1-3% difference at Tri. This means that you would start with a lower range in degrees of confidence by using the median value 2%

This is fine but this doesn't address the quantity of Evasion a player has.

              Level based difference in chance to hit in the last known study shows a 2% per 10 level change in chnce to hit according to level. Meaning fr every ten levels of difference, the increase in chance to hit only increases 2% or .2% per level.

I need this link, last results i read were consistent with the last test i performed myself. It seemed to be 1 point of accuracy and evasion per level difference.

            For shown accuracy values (+5 Acc items etc) the simplest way would be to add 1% chance to hit per bonus level. Although combining the results of the all the known studies shows it to be closer to .65%. (or more specifically, starting at a range of 1% at +1 acc to a minimum of .5% at +20 to +30 shown accuracy value.)

what?

 

See ABOVE responses.

Right now you are just proposing an idea which is fine but i've and many other have already thought about this. Need hard data, For example despite all the talk about Accuracy out there let's look at a much simpler question to ask.

if a player has 250DP how are you going to figure out how much of that is Evasion?

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So, are Manos Ruby Rings worth it for pvp?

 

I'm trying to figure out how Human Damage works. Does it negate damage reduction or is it treated exactly like AP only versus Human NPCs and Player targets?

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So, are Manos Ruby Rings worth it for pvp?

 

I'm trying to figure out how Human Damage works. Does it negate damage reduction or is it treated exactly like AP only versus Human NPCs and Player targets?

All actual tests comparing AP and HD have shown then to produce the same damage and any differences were within margin of error. Until someone can actually prove them to be different beyond just their subjective perspective; yes i would consider them to be the same in terms of damage against players.

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Posted (edited)

All actual tests comparing AP and HD have shown then to produce the same damage and any differences were within margin of error. Until someone can actually prove them to be different beyond just their subjective perspective; yes i would consider them to be the same in terms of damage against players.

I trust your results and the concept behind these rings makes sense (price wise).

edit:

what do you think about Krea and Rosar daggers DP stat? I was talking with a player in game and he swore that he evaded more with the Rosar offhand, but I personally don't trust small scale tests.

Edited by Holy

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Posted

I trust your results and the concept behind these rings makes sense (price wise).

edit:

what do you think about Krea and Rosar daggers DP stat? I was talking with a player in game and he swore that he evaded more with the Rosar offhand, but I personally don't trust small scale tests.

They are both 100% Evasion.

The DP is too similar to feel a reliable difference in the heat of combat imo.

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Posted (edited)

See ABOVE responses.

Right now you are just proposing an idea which is fine but i've and many other have already thought about this. Need hard data, For example despite all the talk about Accuracy out there let's look at a much simpler question to ask.

if a player has 250DP how are you going to figure out how much of that is Evasion?

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1f7AC5U1hI82hnonRYx2IumJkvhOKb7gllvYhe1Lbb4Y/edit#

None of that number is evasion. Evasion, like accuracy is a seperate stat.

For denoted evaion values it is relatively easy. However for those few items that give hidden evasion, tests need to be done to determine the value oer enchant.

Edited by LordOnichan

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