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How are you supposed to know whats 100% right or wrong!

16 posts in this topic

Posted (edited)

Hi all,

Today i thought i would start a topic about game developers choosing to have stats in a game hidden to their player base in general. My intentions are through this post is to try and get some insight to whats better for the community as a whole, by allowing us players to see the hidden stats or not allow?

I feel by having the game developers in general, not just only BDO, that choose to have their stats hidden, how are we (us players) are supposed to know 100% if things are working intended or not, if players cannot see the changes done in the hidden stats?
I only ask this question because not only am i kind of curious to why you would want to hide them in the first place, but hiding stats on players just creates more work for the dev team IMO, but i put together a set of ROSAR gear and in the description it states that "Set Effect: Ignore All Resistance 10%". Now when i equip the gear and in my player stat TAB my resistance stats never changed. See my vid here ---> YOUTUBE VIDEO

Now i sent off a support ticket ages ago as you can see from the date of the vid that i uploaded seeing if there was some sort of bug or not, because none of stats changed. The response i got from the GM that answered my ticket said and i quote... 
"Set bonuses for armor do not show up on your character page, but they are still applied. I can confirm that the 10% resistance boost from set bonus is functional!"

Now im supposed to believe in what that GM's saying?
Because deep down inside, that yes he/she perhaps could be telling me the truth but im still not 100% convinced that its working properly. As you can see in my vid and most of you all know that the ROSAR type are weapons, so why is my "Knockdown/Bound stat @ 35%" when all other stats are at 20% under the resistance stats?
If by going of what that GM has told me that those stats in the resistance tabs only come from my weapons only and no where else, then where in the hell did i get that extra 15% on the knockdown/bound stat, when there isnt anything saying or mentioning it in or on the ROSAR description area?
On top of that it states that IGNORE ALL Resistance stats should be 10%, so i dont know what IGNORE ALL means to them, but to me ALL means EVERYTHING, lol.

My point is to this topic, how are we as players ever going to know or be 100% satisfied that things are working as intended when all we have to go off is what the GM/Dev's/Creator's are telling us without providing to the public the actual numbers?
How can we feel confident in a product working 100% without seeing the evidence and having the only option as a player to believe what in someone is saying, this isnt how you win another person trust, unless a company or entity thereof can support these claims through documented evidence, wouldnt you agree? Meaning when developers say things like, "Adjusted Musa sword attack slightly", ok whats slightly, 5%, 10% 50%? Well its like saying how long is a piece of string?

Im just trying to say that i think all stats ought to be shown, even if the creators or developers dont really want to do it, because at least we can find and fix bugs a billion times faster by a player noticing that stats are off or out and let's the player base know that things were actually getting fixed properly and we would noticed them right away if they werent. 
I just feel this creates more frustration, confusion, time and effort for both sides of the fence when we all cant be on the same page/level and why would any company want to create an environment where players and staff are always arguing back'n'forth on whats right and wrong.

Anyhow before i leave you all with this big wall of text that i created lol, i just feel i would probably get a more greater experience in BDO in general if I knew how things worked by learning through the games teachings by reading stats, rather then what people are saying without them having the ability to provide any physical evidence or facts to support in what they are saying to be 100% true. 

Edited by CombatKiller
Added and fixed more text

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Posted

Does the rosar set give 10% ignore resistances? In that case how should that be applied on ur char sheet where it shows ur own resistances?

The only way it would be shown is if it applied a debuff on the enemy player. But is not a debuf. Just increases ur chances to land a knockdown/stiff/air/grapple by decreasing the enemy's resitance by 10% when u cast the skill.

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Posted

Does the rosar set give 10% ignore resistances? In that case how should that be applied on ur char sheet where it shows ur own resistances?

The only way it would be shown is if it applied a debuff on the enemy player. But is not a debuf. Just increases ur chances to land a knockdown/stiff/air/grapple by decreasing the enemy's resitance by 10% when u cast the skill.

Well thats the thing im saying, it doesnt state whether its for defense or offense it just says ALL RESISTANCE 10%, so im assuming ALL means everything - its very confusing to me, lol on exactly how it works.

I was under the understanding that if it said ALL - meaning that i have 10% resistant to all controllable effects on me OR I have 10% more control over my opponent.

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Posted

Doesnt that only apply when dealing dmg? meaning opposite players resistances are ignored by 10%... doesnt make u resist any more than you already do.

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Posted

 

so why is my "Knockdown/Bound stat @ 35%" when all other stats are at 20% under the resistance stats

You're getting 15% KD resist from your zereth helmet. Rosar is ignore 10% resistances as in ignoring your opponent's resistances. 

 

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Posted

Doesnt that only apply when dealing dmg? meaning opposite players resistances are ignored by 10%... doesnt make u resist any more than you already do.

TBH i have no idea exactly, but if i could see that stats then maybe perhaps i would know what exactly it does and mean.

But i just used that ROSAR example as an example of how confusing it can be if players cant see the whole/entire stats that we have, as there are more examples that we all can give in different scenarios im sure.

Like accuracy for example, when a weapon says "Enhancement Effect: Accuracy", if a player could see the stats then we would know exactly how much accuracy does how much damage, but because we as players cant see that stat how do we know whats good or not? 
If you search the forums or seek others opinions on this topic you will find that it will all vary, between players. If we could see the stats then this would eliminate a lot false information as you would know who is right or wrong.

 

You're getting 15% KD resist from your zereth helmet. Rosar is ignore 10% resistances as in ignoring your opponent's resistances. 

 

Yeah, but if you read what the GM said, they told me that set bonuses for armor do not show up on the character's page.

Not disagreeing with you, just pointing out how confusing it is, GM saying one thing and your saying another. But yes you are right tho.

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Posted

There were tests made on the Koreean server regaring the accuracy issue. From what i remeber between kzarka and liverto theres a 5-7% accuracy difference. And between liverto and yuria a 15% difference.

Prolly stats are hidden to make players dig for info or just to avoid min-max stats.

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Posted

I got you... us reddit peeps got the answers

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Posted

They'll fix it in the next edition, so all those hacked on bonuses show in the "stats". It's just that the current crop of "programers" don't want to touch the original code.

Of course, then you'll have to worry that the stats are telling you the truth. You don't seem willing to believe anyone.

 

Ceiling Cat is watching you.

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Posted

I only ask this question because not only am i kind of curious to why you would want to hide them in the first place, but hiding stats on players just creates more work for the dev team IMO, but i put together a set of ROSAR gear and in the description it states that "Set Effect: Ignore All Resistance 10%". Now when i equip the gear and in my player stat TAB my resistance stats never changed. See my vid here ---> YOUTUBE VIDEO

Now i sent off a support ticket ages ago as you can see from the date of the vid that i uploaded seeing if there was some sort of bug or not, because none of stats changed. The response i got from the GM that answered my ticket said and i quote... 
"Set bonuses for armor do not show up on your character page, but they are still applied. I can confirm that the 10% resistance boost from set bonus is functional!"

On top of that it states that IGNORE ALL Resistance stats should be 10%, so i dont know what IGNORE ALL means to them, but to me ALL means EVERYTHING, lol.

Ignore all resistance isn't listed anywhere. The resistance stats in your information window are for yourself to resist enemy attacks.

All resistance = Stun/Stiffness/Freeze, Knockdown/Bound, Grapple and Knockback/Floating. The word "all" is tied to "resistance", otherwise it would say "Ignore everything", which it isn't doing.

Yeah, but if you read what the GM said, they told me that set bonuses for armor do not show up on the character's page.
Not disagreeing with you, just pointing out how confusing it is, GM saying one thing and your saying another. But yes you are right tho.

Zereth Helm doesn't require a set, it's its own item effect. Even if it were a set, it would still show as there is only a single resistance stat that can be increased.

Also, "Ignore All Resistance" is most likely applied multiplicative. Targets with 20% resistance can still resist CC from a player with +30% Ignore All Resistance, but this could also be the case of a negative cap that is somewhere >0%.

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Posted (edited)

You don't seem willing to believe anyone.

 

Ceiling Cat is watching you.

That isnt 100% true, i listen to what people have to say and make a decision based on the facts that i have infront of me, thats how i am. But if people never explain why and how they came up with that, then the chances of me believing in them are very slim. Its like the old saying goes "Dont believe in everything that someone tells you"
So if i told you that there was an angry cookie monster at the end of your street terrorizing your neighbours, would you believe me? What i would do is say oh really, and poke my head out a window and see for myself.
For example: when someone says to me oh you gotta do it this way, i will then ask them why, their response is oh i dont know its just what so and so said. Well this is just like chinese whispers, i would prefer to talk with the people that knows and that have done the research.

Like how Alterist replied to my thread, i can see just through his answer that he knows what he is saying, as through his answer he is describing how to find out how its working through the steps he has listed.

 

 

Ignore all resistance isn't listed anywhere. The resistance stats in your information window are for yourself to resist enemy attacks.

All resistance = Stun/Stiffness/Freeze, Knockdown/Bound, Grapple and Knockback/Floating. The word "all" is tied to "resistance", otherwise it would say "Ignore everything", which it isn't doing.

Zereth Helm doesn't require a set, it's its own item effect. Even if it were a set, it would still show as there is only a single resistance stat that can be increased.

Also, "Ignore All Resistance" is most likely applied multiplicative. Targets with 20% resistance can still resist CC from a player with +30% Ignore All Resistance, but this could also be the case of a negative cap that is somewhere >0%.

Thanks for the in depth brake down.

I got you... us reddit peeps got the answers

Lol, i dont know if it just me, but that is confusing as hell...   But good work though, now your gonna make me sit down and learn how to operate a spreed sheet, gggrrrr.

When i get home ill take some time to give this a good look over, atm im out of town working on a shitty laptop.

Edited by CombatKiller

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Posted

OP the devs should know what the hidden stats are because (at least from my experience) Dev teams have everything like that visible on there alpha servers and just hide it when it goes live. The information being hidden is simply to prevent min maxing and to a lesser extent elitism, neither of which will work. Honestly they should mop up the descriptions of a lot of things in this game and let us see all of these stats. I think there's less people whose game experience would be ruined by showing everything than the people who would enjoy seeing everything.

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Posted

I don't understand how it's confusing. It clearly states "Ignore All Resistance 10%" ignore means to disregard something, bypass, go through something. It does not say "Increase All Resistance 10%" nor does it say "Knockdown Resistance 10%". You have to read something before complaining.

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Posted

OP the devs should know what the hidden stats are because (at least from my experience) Dev teams have everything like that visible on there alpha servers and just hide it when it goes live. The information being hidden is simply to prevent min maxing and to a lesser extent elitism, neither of which will work. Honestly they should mop up the descriptions of a lot of things in this game and let us see all of these stats. I think there's less people whose game experience would be ruined by showing everything than the people who would enjoy seeing everything.

yeah i believe so to, there are many games that i know that dont hide stats and are very much more enjoyable to a player, well particularly me as i would have a better grasp in what im doing exactly, i would rather spend more time playing the game, then be surfing the net and forums trying to make sense of all those hidden stats in BDO.

 

I don't understand how it's confusing. It clearly states "Ignore All Resistance 10%" ignore means to disregard something, bypass, go through something. It does not say "Increase All Resistance 10%" nor does it say "Knockdown Resistance 10%". You have to read something before complaining.

Well what i dont understand is why most people keep relating to my example of my post instead of everything like the hidden stat of accuracy, AP and more!
And for the record i have played other games when they have stated similiar things like that "Ignore All Resistance 10%" and all the game did was increase your stats that you could see it increase so you would know as a player, how it exactly worked. But in BDO it just says RESISTANCE in the character TAB, it doesnt tell you whether or not its for offensive or defensive purposes.
Perhaps im just too simple minded and when i play any game i like to know everything about my character, but because BDO opt to choose not to display or show 50% of the stats in the entire game is something i dont agree with, is all im saying, but like Rahavan said in their reply, i think it would hurt less people by showing the stats, then most people if they just gave us the access to all stats.

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Posted

 

Lol, i dont know if it just me, but that is confusing as hell...   But good work though, now your gonna make me sit down and learn how to operate a spreed sheet, gggrrrr.
When i get home ill take some time to give this a good look over, atm im out of town working on a shitty laptop.

Is there anything i can do to make it easier? Im not a web guy so i can't make an application. Open to suggestions.

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