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PA and the local reps are not the problem

73 posts in this topic

Posted

Well I also love how people define games as failures because they don't play them anymore.

 

I know a bit about publishing, because occasionally our income is increased by royalties. My grandfather wrote some books, some still considered "the bible" of the particular sport, and we now own the intellectual property. Until a publisher comes along and makes an offer, though, they just sit and do nothing. And my grandfather was a writer, not a business man, so one publisher owns perpetual rights to several of the books. We had to turn down a really good offer last year, Japanese printing for a large format coffee table book, a collaboration of my grandfather's writing and a prominent nature photographer's work as illustration, because the publisher that owned the rights was not amenable.

So please,  "ownership" is a rather vague term when it comes to IP and publishing. Do not swing it like a sword of clarity; it simply means what the terms of agreement mean and that can vary greatly, contract to contract.

In this case, I would say the evidence points to Kakao spending as little as possible on this venture in order to maximise their profits. I doubt they paid for very much control at all. Even if they have such control, it seems they neglect to hire enough personnel to exercise it!  And, as long as the game breaks even (which won't take much it if it's published "on a shoestring"), they won't incur the costs of dropping it and firing their NA/EU division.

Exactly what I was saying. Owning the rights to something isn't the same as pure ownership...otherwise your grandfather would have just outright sold it.

Like you said it's not always crystal clear, but we have ample evidence that PA controls the game.

Look at Kakaos statements! They are never definitive and always int he first person to themselves.  They never say what they think the devs PA are doing. Crap check out the bugs forum and you constantly see Kakao saying the forwarded the information to PA.

Unless all you guys are saying this is a major conspiracy and each time they say they forwarded the info to Pa and are waiting on them to respon.. IT'S ALL A BIG LIE BECAUSE THEY CONTROL AND OWN THIS GAME?!
The hell lol

I love a good conspiracy, but this is nuts.

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Posted (edited)

Well I also love how people define games as failures because they don't play them anymore.

 

Games typically receive the failure tag if they don't keep the playerbase to match the hype, or if they have to change business models or make changes that focus on milking money more than improving the gameplay, or if they start doing the opposite of what they said their plan was with no reason stated. NA/EU BDO has been guilty of the latter 2, and we don't know about the player numbers since they won't release them anymore.

There are numerous failures of games that are financially successful and marvelous games that are financial failures.

Edited by Noth
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Posted

Games typically receive the failure tag if they don't keep the playerbase to match the hype, or if they have to change business models or make changes that focus on milking money more than improving the gameplay, or if they start doing the opposite of what they said their plan was with no reason stated. NA/EU BDO has been guilty of the latter 2, and we don't know about the player numbers since they won't release them anymore.

There are numerous failures of games that are financially successful and marvelous games that are financial failures.

I don't understand you.  

Like I said, just because you don't play it doesn't mean it's a failure.  
Please link a game that shows evidence of your assessment.

Link with financials or else it's just what I said, failure because you don't play it anymore?!

Eve has around 500k players and is a resounding success.. maybe not WOW success, but who is?

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Posted

I don't understand you.  

Like I said, just because you don't play it doesn't mean it's a failure.  
Please link a game that shows evidence of your assessment.

Link with financials or else it's just what I said, failure because you don't play it anymore?!

Eve has around 500k players and is a resounding success.. maybe not WOW success, but who is?

Sigh... In no place do I say I have stopped playing this game. In no way do I state that you need WoW levels of success to be successful. In fact I point out that there is more than one type of success. You have financial success (typically just making enough to pull a little profit once development costs are recouped), and you have critic success. You can have one without the other. No Man's Sky is a perfect example of financial success, but poor market success, with the scathing reviews and generally poor opinion of the game by players and critics alike. This tends to hold true in almost every form of entertainment media. The Transformer movies have been financial successes, but generally seen as poor movies.

Archeage is another game that has had financial success but relatively poor critic success and even market penetration beyond the original release. This was brought out by poor management, failing to stick to their plans.

EvE is a success, because it has stayed strong for all these years and in general sticks to what they say their plans are and communicate well with the community and even admit mistakes. These are things Kakao does not do.

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Posted (edited)

Sigh... In no place do I say I have stopped playing this game. In no way do I state that you need WoW levels of success to be successful. In fact I point out that there is more than one type of success. You have financial success (typically just making enough to pull a little profit once development costs are recouped), and you have critic success. You can have one without the other. No Man's Sky is a perfect example of financial success, but poor market success, with the scathing reviews and generally poor opinion of the game by players and critics alike. This tends to hold true in almost every form of entertainment media. The Transformer movies have been financial successes, but generally seen as poor movies.

Archeage is another game that has had financial success but relatively poor critic success and even market penetration beyond the original release. This was brought out by poor management, failing to stick to their plans.

EvE is a success, because it has stayed strong for all these years and in general sticks to what they say their plans are and communicate well with the community and even admit mistakes. These are things Kakao does not do.

You contradict yourself... financial success but no critic success...

Maybe you should stop caring about what others say and either like an item or don't like it because of your own personal taste...

I starting to think you are trolling me when you try to tout the contradiction of something being a financial success but not being a success...

If you are saying that they started out making money and now barely make money to the point of being shut down than fine, otherwise what drugs are you  on?

Never said you quit, you quoted me not the other way around, sorry if you took my comment personally, though I didn't know you existed until you quoted me!

Please show me a link with the financials to support what you are saying!
Just because you and a bunch of others quit Archage or X game, and now think it's a failure? Is it profitable and still going? Yes? Than sorry you are wrong...

Once again just because you quit doesn't make it a failure.  Just because it's not a $ Billion a year IP doesn't make it unsuccessful.  Would you mind throwing some numbers out? Like show us a link of a game barely making money, than fine you can say it's failing presently...

So once again, because you quit it's a failure? I'm going to keep repeating that until you stop or show us a link with some financials that back up your assessment.

I will assume you won't because you can't.  

Here let me play your game: SWTOR is a failure and doesn't exist anymore because I quit it within the first 4 months of the game.. right?

https://swtoreconomics.com/2015/12/10/an-analysis-of-star-wars-the-old-republic-from-eas-financial-reports/

Here I will do your homework for you lazy ass (Please don't take that too personally, but come one!)

Now you come in here link something like that and we can talk, but that's also 4 years later, so is it a failure since it has made that money money for EA alone?  It could fail now, but they made their money, players played for up to 4 years... etc..

Boy you and people like you absolutely suck at arguing! Took me all of 2 minutes to get that info!

Edited by Pavo

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Posted

You realize a lot of the profit Kakao makes goes to PA, right? Probably a percentage - an extremely high one.

Source?

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Posted

You contradict yourself... financial success but no critic success...

Maybe you should stop caring about what others say and either like an item or don't like it because of your own personal taste...

I starting to think you are trolling me when you try to tout the contradiction of something being a financial success but not being a success...

If you are saying that they started out making money and now barely make money to the point of being shut down than fine, otherwise what drugs are you  on?

Never said you quit, you quoted me not the other way around, sorry if you took my comment personally, though I didn't know you existed until you quoted me!

Please show me a link with the financials to support what you are saying!
Just because you and a bunch of others quit Archage or X game, and now think it's a failure? Is it profitable and still going? Yes? Than sorry you are wrong...

Once again just because you quit doesn't make it a failure.  Just because it's not a $ Billion a year IP doesn't make it unsuccessful.  Would you mind throwing some numbers out? Like show us a link of a game barely making money, than fine you can say it's failing presently...

So once again, because you quit it's a failure? I'm going to keep repeating that until you stop or show us a link with some financials that back up your assessment.

I will assume you won't because you can't.  

Here let me play your game: SWTOR is a failure and doesn't exist anymore because I quit it within the first 4 months of the game.. right?

https://swtoreconomics.com/2015/12/10/an-analysis-of-star-wars-the-old-republic-from-eas-financial-reports/

Here I will do your homework for you lazy ass (Please don't take that too personally, but come one!)

Now you come in here link something like that and we can talk, but that's also 4 years later, so is it a failure since it has made that money money for EA alone?  It could fail now, but they made their money, players played for up to 4 years... etc..

Boy you and people like you absolutely suck at arguing! Took me all of 2 minutes to get that info!

Yes there is more than a financial success. No Man's Sky is a financial success, but not a critic success. No contradiction there. You can see this in Archeage. It has no where near the good rep that it should have, despite still making money and lost a substantial amount of the playerbase, with even dedicated fans walking away from it. Focusing solely on financial success is why games have stagnated so heavily and why companies get away with rather abusive business models, making statements they cannot back up, and deceptive language and descriptions.

I wouldn't say SWTOR died, it correct the problems and made massive changes to the business model to stop the death. So while there was an exodus, the correction saved most the player base. It also doesn't hurt that it is being carried by the Star Wars IP. I actually believe it has had an influx of players thanks to the new star wars movies. But again, all you focus on is the financial standpoint, which is only one bar for for success. Look at Nexus: Jupiter Incident. When the game came out it received good critic and player reviews, it was a good game. It however sold rather poorly and no sequal came for it despite being good enough for one. To give you a good idea of how a game can have financial success yet still die, look no further than Battelfield Heroes. It was making money, and apparently quite a bit. It shutdown a year after they gloated about how well it was doing financially.

If all you care about as a consumer is financial success, prepare to be walked over by companies.

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Posted (edited)

Yes there is more than a financial success. No Man's Sky is a financial success, but not a critic success. No contradiction there. You can see this in Archeage. It has no where near the good rep that it should have, despite still making money and lost a substantial amount of the playerbase, with even dedicated fans walking away from it. Focusing solely on financial success is why games have stagnated so heavily and why companies get away with rather abusive business models, making statements they cannot back up, and deceptive language and descriptions.

I wouldn't say SWTOR died, it correct the problems and made massive changes to the business model to stop the death. So while there was an exodus, the correction saved most the player base. It also doesn't hurt that it is being carried by the Star Wars IP. I actually believe it has had an influx of players thanks to the new star wars movies. But again, all you focus on is the financial standpoint, which is only one bar for for success. Look at Nexus: Jupiter Incident. When the game came out it received good critic and player reviews, it was a good game. It however sold rather poorly and no sequal came for it despite being good enough for one. To give you a good idea of how a game can have financial success yet still die, look no further than Battelfield Heroes. It was making money, and apparently quite a bit. It shutdown a year after they gloated about how well it was doing financially.

If all you care about as a consumer is financial success, prepare to be walked over by companies.

With all due respect, what drug are you on?

How can something be a financial success but not a critic success? Sorry you care about critics so much, but they are useless humans who have a useless job.

I link you a SWTOR and you totally misunderstand it.  That if anything is a game on the way down, maybe not as down this year as last, but down either way. That's the closest to a failure I can find.

You don't seem to be able to separate your opinion from fact and use it to argue. 

I'm not here arguing what you like or how valid your opinion is.  I simply said most people consider games they don't play as failures which is B.S.

You seem to have taken exception to this based on what critics consider success and what you consider success based on your opinion, not any measurable metrics.

Do you want to argue whether apples are better than oranges next? 

 I even asked you to prove your ASSESSMENT AND LINKS WHICH YOU FAIL TO PROVIDE TIME AND TIME AGAIN, WHILE I LINKED YOU AN ARTICLE ABOUT SWTOR AND THEIR DECREASE IN PROFITS. Which Ironically could be used to prove your argument, but you failed to pick up on that! 

If you can't back your assessments up, I will just assume you don't know how to and will just leave this topic as is. I don't care what you consider something to be a success or not, these things are measurable whether you like it or not.

Once again, just because you quit something or a dumb ass critic doesn't like something by no means constitutes success or failure. 

In simplistic terms, if it made money it's a success. PERIOD, Sorry if you can't seem to understand this.

Shit dude, tons of below bad movies get critical acclaim, SO WHAT?! LOL

Edited by Pavo
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Posted

With all due respect, what drug are you on?

How can something be a financial success but not a critic success? Sorry you care about critics so much, but they are useless humans who have a useless job.

I link you a SWTOR and you totally misunderstand it.  That if anything is a game on the way down, maybe not as down this year as last, but down either way. That's the closest to a failure I can find.

You don't seem to be able to separate your opinion from fact and use it to argue. 

I'm not here arguing what you like or how valid your opinion is.  I simply said most people consider games they don't play as failures which is B.S.

You seem to have taken exception to this based on what critics consider success and what you consider success based on your opinion, not any measurable metrics.

Do you want to argue whether apples are better than oranges next? 

 I even asked you to prove your ASSESSMENT AND LINKS WHICH YOU FAIL TO PROVIDE TIME AND TIME AGAIN, WHILE I LINKED YOU AN ARTICLE ABOUT SWTOR AND THEIR DECREASE IN PROFITS. Which Ironically could be used to prove your argument, but you failed to pick up on that! 

If you can't back your assessments up, I will just assume you don't know how to and will just leave this topic as is.

All you have to do to see proof is look up the sale numbers of No mans' sky, then look up how it is being received and how fast the player numbers have dropped. Same with Archeage. All MMOs have player loss, but not all of them get horrid reps in the market.

As for the critic success, I use that in a general sense for how the game is accepted in the market. Archeage is not accepted in the market very well. No Man's sky has been a flop despite all the potential it had.

You seek evidence of a decrease in profits, you focus solely on profits. Profits do not make a game good. If devs are satisfied with minimal income for minimal effort and they consider that success then fine, but to think having a bad reputation along with temporary large profits in a market is success, is quite frankly stupid as it doesn't help any future endeavors in that market.

SWTOR losing profits is natural after being out for 3 years. That is actually really good for an MMORPG in the western market in this era. That is thanks to the fact that they did correct issues with the game and change their business model.

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Posted (edited)

All you have to do to see proof is look up the sale numbers of No mans' sky, then look up how it is being received and how fast the player numbers have dropped. Same with Archeage. All MMOs have player loss, but not all of them get horrid reps in the market.

As for the critic success, I use that in a general sense for how the game is accepted in the market. Archeage is not accepted in the market very well. No Man's sky has been a flop despite all the potential it had.

You seek evidence of a decrease in profits, you focus solely on profits. Profits do not make a game good. If devs are satisfied with minimal income for minimal effort and they consider that success then fine, but to think having a bad reputation along with temporary large profits in a market is success, is quite frankly stupid as it doesn't help any future endeavors in that market.

SWTOR losing profits is natural after being out for 3 years. That is actually really good for an MMORPG in the western market in this era. That is thanks to the fact that they did correct issues with the game and change their business model.

STOP!

You don't like tomatoes so we should all dislike tomatoes?
 

Financial success is the only true measuring stick.

May I ask why you care so much about what a stranger says about a game or not?
It doesn't matter if you find 10 million people to not like something, if it's making money it's successful. Why don't you understand this?

Link all this stuff you claim proves something? Are you too lazy or too good to do that? 
I freaking linked something to prove a point and you can't be bothered with it.

Why can't you link stuff to back up your assessments? I've asked multiple times and you keep saying it's there LINK IT!

Is this how you argue in real life? You just say stuff and people accept it? For the millionth time just because you and a bunch of people claim something that makes money is a failure.. is a comprehension failure on your part and not what you are talking about.

It's why we have statistics and all you have spouted is opinions that you claim as facts, while never providing evidence!

I would say nice arguing, but than I would be lying, you just can't accept facts outside of what you think subjectively or not... good day!

 

Edited by Pavo

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STOP!

You don't like tomatoes so we should all dislike tomatoes?
 

Financial success is the only true measuring stick.

May I ask why you care so much about what a stranger says about a game or not?
It doesn't matter if you find 10 million people to not like something, if it's making money it's successful. Why don't you understand this?

Link all this stuff you claim proves something? Are you too lazy or too good to do that? 
I freaking linked something to prove a point and you can't be bothered with it.

I would say nice arguing, but than I would be lying, you just can't accept facts outside of what you think or not... good day!

It is not that I care about what others think, I care about games moving away from abusive and lazy design. The emphasis on since it makes money it is successful has done nothing but hurt video games. It has made publishers and developers lazy. You don't need to design a good game to make money, you just have to hook a few players. I rather look at what the market is saying overall to judge success, than simply bottom line and there are some developers out there that share such a view. Hence why games like Crowfall, Camelot unchained, and the whole Indie scene has been growing in recent years. Even big companies that were known to just crank out games with minimal changes from year to year have started to somewhat change that quick easy money since it was starting to receive some backlash from the market.

I told you exactly what to look up.

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It is not that I care about what others think, I care about games moving away from abusive and lazy design. The emphasis on since it makes money it is successful has done nothing but hurt video games. It has made publishers and developers lazy. You don't need to design a good game to make money, you just have to hook a few players. I rather look at what the market is saying overall to judge success, than simply bottom line and there are some developers out there that share such a view. Hence why games like Crowfall, Camelot unchained, and the whole Indie scene has been growing in recent years. Even big companies that were known to just crank out games with minimal changes from year to year have started to somewhat change that quick easy money since it was starting to receive some backlash from the market.

I told you exactly what to look up.

And crowdfunding is a scam.

Have you seen how many Indie games are on steam that are still in "beta" 3 years LATER?!

All of what you said is your opinion, which I respect, but in no way can you take that opinion and extrapolate failure or success.

Link it damn it, what's wrong with you!?!?! 

Lazy? You opinion once again, which I respect, but doesn't make it so.  You can have your opinion, but don't sell it as fact outside of what YOU think. Maybe you can understand this. I think SWTOR is a failure based on it going F2P and such.  But, by no means am I selling that as a fact, especially since the game is still going making a PROFIT for the developer and publisher!

If you want to keep arguing, than you need to tell us what you define as success that is measurable.  Yes, you can tell me that 1 million players don't like STWOR, but it's still making money!

Define sucess in your world please,  cause if you haven't noticed you are arguing your opinion like I said you are wrong. You can have your opinion, just don't say that games are a success or failure because you think so. Prove it. Otherwise it's a failure for YOU!

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Sigh... In no place do I say I have stopped playing this game. In no way do I state that you need WoW levels of success to be successful. In fact I point out that there is more than one type of success. You have financial success (typically just making enough to pull a little profit once development costs are recouped), and you have critic success. You can have one without the other. No Man's Sky is a perfect example of financial success, but poor market success, with the scathing reviews and generally poor opinion of the game by players and critics alike. This tends to hold true in almost every form of entertainment media. The Transformer movies have been financial successes, but generally seen as poor movies.

Archeage is another game that has had financial success but relatively poor critic success and even market penetration beyond the original release. This was brought out by poor management, failing to stick to their plans.

EvE is a success, because it has stayed strong for all these years and in general sticks to what they say their plans are and communicate well with the community and even admit mistakes. These are things Kakao does not do.

Just to add on to this EvE has just announced they are making big changes to the Payment model of Subscription based players and soon to be free to play players,

Now if I apply your example that means they are making changes to the business model of what is called EvE Online, Does this mean that after so many years that EvE is now a failing game?

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And crowdfunding is a scam.

Have you seen how many Indie games are on steam that are still in "beta" 3 years LATER?!

All of what you said is your opinion, which I respect, but in no way can you take that opinion and extrapolate failure or success.

Link it damn it, what's wrong with you!?!?! 

Lazy? You opinion once again, which I respect, but doesn't make it so.  You can have your opinion, but don't sell it as fact outside of what YOU think. Maybe you can understand this. I think SWTOR is a failure based on it going F2P and such.  But, by no means am I selling that as a fact, especially since the game is still going making a PROFIT for the developer and publisher!

If you want to keep arguing, than you need to tell us what you define as success that is measurable.  Yes, you can tell me that 1 million players don't like STWOR, but it's still making money!

Define sucess in your world please,  cause if you haven't noticed you are arguing your opinion like I said you are wrong. You can have your opinion, just don't say that games are a success or failure because you think so. Prove it. Otherwise it's a failure for YOU!

Some crowd funding is indeed a scam.

What is success for me in a game is the game being successful all around, not just financially. Viewed as a success by the majority of players, the critics and the income. A game to me could barely be pulling profit yet gets high praise from the market in general and I personally would view that as more successful than that game that brings in a lot more money but has a horrid rep. Why? The former leaves a good impression for those devs' future endeavors, and the latter, actually hurts that.

BTW, if you only look at a game for being a success by income alone you are pretty much giving it a pass for any of its poor decisions and designs. 

 

Just to add on to this EvE has just announced they are making big changes to the Payment model of Subscription based players and soon to be free to play players,
Now if I apply your example that means they are making changes to the business model of what is called EvE Online, Does this mean that after so many years that EvE is now a failing game?

It is indeed a method to increase their profits and give more life to the game. EvE has lost player base, and their concurrent players has dropped over the years. It is still a success, but just like everything, as something gets older,it falls farther out of use. that doesn't mean that it is a failure though, simply that it is old. I mean EvE has been around longer than WoW and held a steady playerbase for all that time. All good things come to an end/

 

 

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Posted (edited)

Some crowd funding is indeed a scam.

What is success for me in a game is the game being successful all around, not just financially. Viewed as a success by the majority of players, the critics and the income. A game to me could barely be pulling profit yet gets high praise from the market in general and I personally would view that as more successful than that game that brings in a lot more money but has a horrid rep. Why? The former leaves a good impression for those devs' future endeavors, and the latter, actually hurts that.

BTW, if you only look at a game for being a success by income alone you are pretty much giving it a pass for any of its poor decisions and designs. 

 

It is indeed a method to increase their profits and give more life to the game. EvE has lost player base, and their concurrent players has dropped over the years. It is still a success, but just like everything, as something gets older,it falls farther out of use. that doesn't mean that it is a failure though, simply that it is old. I mean EvE has been around longer than WoW and held a steady playerbase for all that time. All good things come to an end/

 

 

Look man do you want to argue whether Oranges are better than apples? That's what you are doing. 

At one time in Human history it was assumed the world was flat, by your logic since so many agreed to that you would agree and accept it.

See why that logic fails ultimately? You also contradict yourself by telling me I will give them a pass, yet you allow others to say whether a thing is successful or not subjectively and want to discount any objective metrics like profit, amount of sales, etc...

What gives? 

I don't care about what you think is successful or not, outside of that's what you think.  Never have I told you to think differently or stop thinking that. What I am saying, is stop taking you subjective opinion and selling it like fact outside of the FACT IT"S FACT TO YOU!

Also, you are trying to tell me that me basing success purely from profits will allow these companies to take advantage of me (how you arrived at that is pure magic lol) while saying that CRITICS WHO GET PAID TO HAVE AN OPINION IS VALID ENOUGH TO SAY WHETHER A PRODUCT IS SUCCESSFUL OR NOT REGARDLESS OF PROFIT?!?! 

I was going to stop posting on this thread, but this is beyond funny and entertaining!

Also where is this link to all those games you named, that is so easy to find, that proves your assessment? 

I mean I gave you the courtesy of several links, one that if you were sharp enough you could have tried to twist into supporting your argument, while you can't return the favor and just POST ONE LINK THAT PROVES A GAME IS A FAILURE FINANCIALLY AND "CRITICALLY?" (whatever the heck that means lol)

I mean seriously? Because now I'm going to assume you have tried to search only to see how wrong you are, so you won't link anything, just keep telling me the info is easy to find!

Also, you are the one who quoted me, simply because I said " it's funny how many people think a game is a failure simply because they don't play it anymore."

Why take such exception to such a simple and true statement? It's not like I said you are personally wrong or right, crap didn't know you existed until you quoted me. It's a simple statement about an observation that goes on in every games forums I have played.

Why take such personal exception to that?

Balls in your court if you care!

Edited by Pavo

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Game is mediocre at best... Publisher is trash. 

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Look man do you want to argue whether Oranges are better than apples? That's what you are doing. 

At one time in Human history it was assumed the world was flat, by your logic since so many agreed to that you would agree and accept it.

See why that logic fails ultimately? You also contradict yourself by telling me I will give them a pass, yet you allow others to say whether a thing is successful or not subjectively and want to discount any objective metrics like profit, amount of sales, etc...

What gives? 

I don't care about what you think is successful or not, outside of that's what you think.  Never have I told you to think differently or stop thinking that. What I am saying, is stop taking you subjective opinion and selling it like fact outside of the FACT IT"S FACT TO YOU!

Also, you are trying to tell me that me basing success purely from profits will allow these companies to take advantage of me (how you arrived at that is pure magic lol) while saying that CRITICS WHO GET PAID TO HAVE AN OPINION IS VALID ENOUGH TO SAY WHETHER A PRODUCT IS SUCCESSFUL OR NOT REGARDLESS OF PROFIT?!?! 

I was going to stop posting on this thread, but this is beyond funny and entertaining!

Also where is this link to all those games you named, that is so easy to find, that proves your assessment? 

I mean I gave you the courtesy of several links, one that if you were sharp enough you could have tried to twist into supporting your argument, while you can't return the favor and just POST ONE LINK THAT PROVES A GAME IS A FAILURE FINANCIALLY AND "CRITICALLY?" (whatever the heck that means lol)

I mean seriously? Because now I'm going to assume you have tried to search only to see how wrong you are, so you won't link anything, just keep telling me the info is easy to find!

Also, you are the one who quoted me, simply because I said " it's funny how many people think a game is a failure simply because they don't play it anymore."

Why take such exception to such a simple and true statement? It's not like I said you are personally wrong or right, crap didn't know you existed until you quoted me. It's a simple statement about an observation that goes on in every games forums I have played.

Why take such personal exception to that?

Balls in your court if you care!

LMAO!  Logic is a rare commodity these days.  For what it's worth it is clear to me that your argument is logically sound.  And, anyone that understands how logic works would see that.  Cheers.

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Retention matters.

Evolve's launch was a financial success but it's player base dropped off the face of the earth due to manipulative marketing. Their first attempt to breath new life into their product failed free weekend. Fast forward to 2016 and they are now Free to play.  Turtle rock studio missed the mark on an otherwise fantastic game because they couldn't look past the bottom line.

As to ownership or licensing. I agree that if we stick solely to a strict definition they are very different but we live in a world where companies love to say something is owned when it suits them, and it's licensed when it suits them. Even the law is ambiguous in its language when it comes to IP and virtual goods. 

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Look man do you want to argue whether Oranges are better than apples? That's what you are doing. 

At one time in Human history it was assumed the world was flat, by your logic since so many agreed to that you would agree and accept it.

See why that logic fails ultimately? You also contradict yourself by telling me I will give them a pass, yet you allow others to say whether a thing is successful or not subjectively and want to discount any objective metrics like profit, amount of sales, etc...

What gives? 

I don't care about what you think is successful or not, outside of that's what you think.  Never have I told you to think differently or stop thinking that. What I am saying, is stop taking you subjective opinion and selling it like fact outside of the FACT IT"S FACT TO YOU!

Also, you are trying to tell me that me basing success purely from profits will allow these companies to take advantage of me (how you arrived at that is pure magic lol) while saying that CRITICS WHO GET PAID TO HAVE AN OPINION IS VALID ENOUGH TO SAY WHETHER A PRODUCT IS SUCCESSFUL OR NOT REGARDLESS OF PROFIT?!?! 

I was going to stop posting on this thread, but this is beyond funny and entertaining!

Also where is this link to all those games you named, that is so easy to find, that proves your assessment? 

I mean I gave you the courtesy of several links, one that if you were sharp enough you could have tried to twist into supporting your argument, while you can't return the favor and just POST ONE LINK THAT PROVES A GAME IS A FAILURE FINANCIALLY AND "CRITICALLY?" (whatever the heck that means lol)

I mean seriously? Because now I'm going to assume you have tried to search only to see how wrong you are, so you won't link anything, just keep telling me the info is easy to find!

Also, you are the one who quoted me, simply because I said " it's funny how many people think a game is a failure simply because they don't play it anymore."

Why take such exception to such a simple and true statement? It's not like I said you are personally wrong or right, crap didn't know you existed until you quoted me. It's a simple statement about an observation that goes on in every games forums I have played.

Why take such personal exception to that?

Balls in your court if you care!

Atleast in the case of No Mans Sky, he has a valid point to there being a difference between a game making money, and being liked by the players.

"On the first day of the Windows release, No Man's Sky saw more than 212,000 concurrent players on Steam, exceeding the largest number of concurrent players for most other games including other 2016 releases like XCOM 2 and Dark Souls III.[177]Chart-Track reported that sales of the physical release of No Man's Sky in the United Kingdom during the first week was the second-largest PlayStation 4 launch title published by Sony, following Uncharted 4, and the 5th highest across all publishers and Sony formats.[178] However, a week later, these numbers had dropped significantly: the concurrent player count on Steam fell under 23,000,[179] and United Kingdom sales fell by 81% in the second week" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_Man's_Sky#Reception
On Steam platform alone, it has 36% positive reviews. Game made plenty of money, but for the players it is a failure.

 

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So yeah huge revenue increase in a market they previously had no offerings in. 

You know they publish BDO in Korea, right? And have done so for at least a year? Can't remember the exact numbers but their revenue stream for PC gaming went like this

Q4 2015 = ~ 8 billion KWR

Q1 2016 = ~ 16 billion KWR

Q2 2016 = ~ 32 billion KWR

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OP seems to be grasping for something new to qq about.

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 I'd like to point out that even though BDO was a commercial success, that alone does not reflect the quality of the product. No mans sky and Evolve are good examples of poor management and manipulative marketing that caused an initial successful game to fail in the collective consumer opinion. 

Comon' Plunge Q1 ends in march, this game released in march you have to be aware of the overlap between BDO's release and revenue reporting. So tell me what other games Kakao has on the PC platform besides BDO ?  The % they show in that pdf you link are meaningless when it comes to the PC market if they offer nothing else other then BDO. So yeah huge revenue increase in a market they previously had no offerings in. 

You know they publish BDO in Korea, right? And have done so for at least a year? Can't remember the exact numbers but their revenue stream for PC gaming went like this

Q4 2015 = ~ 8 billion KWR

Q1 2016 = ~ 16 billion KWR

Q2 2016 = ~ 32 billion KWR

 And the point being ? The pdf you provided clearly states the 101% increase in their PC profits was because of Black desert online global. All of the dates you listed can coincide with black desert online gaining presents in different markets. (JP, RU, NA, EU)   None of these numbers as I said before represent quality of the product. 

 

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None of these numbers as I said before represent quality of the product. 

If a product isn't good (to some people anyway) then it doesn't make money. The fact that BDO has doubled and then tripled the revenue for PC gaming shows that a large enough amount of people think the product is good and worth paying for. YOU make think the quality of the game isn't good (which begs the question as to why you are here then) but the fact that revenue has doubled and then tripled shows that people disagree with you. 

Hope that's simple enough for you to understand. :) 

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