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Are they crazy? (Rant)

62 posts in this topic

Posted

The person receiving the details never seen them before. It is a random person at the other end of customer service. I wouldn't mind if it was only ID but I do mind it being my PayPal details or card details.

any proof they have my PayPal email? Genuine question as I don't look into this stuff nor work at PayPal. I understand they know my card details but I have no idea how they would know the email that I log onto PayPal with. 

Also as Mystafyi stated his/hers account was compromised by a employee of a game.

You have to realize that these folks are Korean and they have strict internet laws even requiring some sort of unique internet ID. They didn't code their game with hacks and cheats in mind from the start for this reason. I think this is another problem related to kakoa not understanding how things are outside of korea. The whole picture with a newspaper in it is over the top though. Right out of a B grade movie.

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Posted

You have to realize that these folks are Korean and they have strict internet laws even requiring some sort of unique internet ID. They didn't code their game with hacks and cheats in mind from the start for this reason. I think this is another problem related to kakoa not understanding how things are outside of korea. The whole picture with a newspaper in it is over the top though. Right out of a B grade movie.

The problem is they have to realise they are talking to people outside of Korea and if they cannot understand that while marketing their game to the west then I can't really understand them.

It's not hard to read about culture and do research considering how this happened many times with Korean games and the company should see by now how people in the west take privacy.

often I feel the whole "we changed things in the game to suit the western market" is bullshit since they fully don't understand the basics of the western market.

It certainly is over the top lol like why newspaper? It's crazy honestly. 

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Posted

this is nothing new hell in another game that I wont mention I had to have notay republic sign my documents to prove who I said I was.

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Posted

We can't complain, they did try to hire 2 junior developers, right? And hey, it's still better than Blizzard's Overwatch netcode.

BDO and Overwatch both came out with more holes then a box of donuts. Problem is BDO came out in 2014 and kept these holes for 2 years. While Pearl abyss did fix a lot of issues I am not sure about overwatch. Is it still a hackfest?

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Posted

The person receiving the details never seen them before. It is a random person at the other end of customer service. I wouldn't mind if it was only ID but I do mind it being my PayPal details or card details.

any proof they have my PayPal email? Genuine question as I don't look into this stuff nor work at PayPal. I understand they know my card details but I have no idea how they would know the email that I log onto PayPal with. 

Also as Mystafyi stated his/hers account was compromised by a employee of a game.

Anyone that has access to your records can also see your paypal / card number. In fact, given that you've put this information through the internet at some point means a whooooole lot more people than you think have seen this stuff have seen it.

Any CSR that can go in and re-assign your e-mail will likewise have access to your other account information.

Have you ever actually sent or received a paypal payment? It literally has the e-mail in the description of who paid.

Accounts being compromised by an employee of another game is kind of a silly reason to be extra paranoid; that employee didn't need someone to give up their personal information to compromise said account and I'm not so sure I believe that NCSoft's security is so lax that in house behavior like that happened on three separate occasions without any way to resolve it short of a charge back. I don't believe that the same employee handled the same account's information on three separate occasions without it being noticed or that someone would just go around them to paypal without trying to resolve it (and NCsoft would resolve the f**k out of so serious of a breach of their security btw).

For some reason people still think their ID and credit information is some guarded secret kept under extreme lock and key instead of 70's era tech with almost non-existent security that relies a lot more on automatic detection and communication. I recommend you youtube up "privacy is dead, get over it" because it'll give you some insight into just how public your information actually is.

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Posted

They use shady stuff to ban hackers that is not COMPLETELY legal

I am not against such tactics. When I choose to start messing around in a game I do it with the knowledge I am violating their ToS and can be terminated.

I'm not so sure I believe that NCSoft's security is so lax that in house behavior like that happened on three separate occasions without any way to resolve it short of a charge back. I don't believe that the same employee handled the same account's information on three separate occasions without it being noticed or that someone would just go around them to paypal without trying to resolve it (and NCsoft would resolve the f**k out of so serious of a breach of their security btw).
 

I was offered compensation by ncsoft and carbine handled their inhouse issue. I decided their compensation was not worth the loss of trust and they did not contest my chargeback, indeed were even helpful.

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Posted

I am not against such tactics. When I choose to start messing around in a game I do it with the knowledge I am violating their ToS and can be terminated.

I was offered compensation by ncsoft and carbine handled their inhouse issue. I decided their compensation was not worth the loss of trust and they did not contest my chargeback, indeed were even helpful.

I feel like they would have offered you a refund straight up without you needing to do a charge back had you asked.

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Posted

Anyone that has access to your records can also see your paypal / card number. In fact, given that you've put this information through the internet at some point means a whooooole lot more people than you think have seen this stuff have seen it.
Any CSR that can go in and re-assign your e-mail will likewise have access to your other account information.

Have you ever actually sent or received a paypal payment? It literally has the e-mail in the description of who paid.

Accounts being compromised by an employee of another game is kind of a silly reason to be extra paranoid; that employee didn't need someone to give up their personal information to compromise said account and I'm not so sure I believe that NCSoft's security is so lax that in house behavior like that happened on three separate occasions without any way to resolve it short of a charge back. I don't believe that the same employee handled the same account's information on three separate occasions without it being noticed or that someone would just go around them to paypal without trying to resolve it (and NCsoft would resolve the f**k out of so serious of a breach of their security btw).

For some reason people still think their ID and credit information is some guarded secret kept under extreme lock and key instead of 70's era tech with almost non-existent security that relies a lot more on automatic detection and communication. I recommend you youtube up "privacy is dead, get over it" because it'll give you some insight into just how public your information actually is.

I am not in some bubble where I believe that my information is under a lock but I will just give a simple example the person at the end of customer support doesn't scrol through people's details as a past time and me giving him the details is basically giving him the key to access my information that he can access anyway but today he has a reason to. Why add one more person to the bunch of people who know my details? Because many people already know it? I don't agree. I won't go and stand on a stage and say all my personal information because many people know it. You still try to limit the amount of people who know your details.

The problem with this isn't what they want it is what they want to the issue I want to solve.
I don't want to change my address
I don't want to change my card details
I want to change my email.
A photo ID is enough to prove I am who I am to change my email.
If I was changing my card details then they would ask for card details which would be pretty obvious. 
Why are we finding it acceptable to give so much information to change a email address? Most games if not all... have the option to change your email by simply idk... pressing a link in your old email and then your new one.

I really don't need insight I know how public my information is I know that if I sign up to a forum some random person sees my IP in my post.
I truly don't care.

What I care about is change email = so much information. 

No I don't receive PayPal payments as I don't sell anything or do anything like that. Not because I am overprotective but because I don't transfer money (personal preference) because I don't really like when people give me money.

Issue: we don't know what they see when they reassign my email unless someone works there that can tell us we don't know if they see everything.

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Posted

You do realize if you used paypal they *already have* that e-mail right?
They are asking you to verify two things they already have on record and also show your ID in a way that makes it hard to use an old picture you found.

If you don't like what they are asking for, by all means don't do it... but flashing your ID for this kinda thing really isn't all that uncommon and nothing about any of the information they are asking for is even actually private information.

Ya when GW2 was doing closed bet I got invited and then they wanted a copy of Dl and some other ID information.

Needless to say I didn't give it to them. By law you are only required to show you ID when asked to Police and government.

 

Like Jerry Lee Lewis said when asked about something the Queen said, "They can just kiss my ass"

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Posted

I feel like they would have offered you a refund straight up without you needing to do a charge back had you asked.

In hindsight, I have to agree they would have if I asked. I became frustrated and angry at the whole issue and went to my bank with email correspondence and they fixed everything within a day.

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Posted (edited)

 will just give a simple example the person at the end of customer support doesn't scrol through people's details as a past time and me giving him the details is basically giving him the key to access my information that he can access anyway but today he has a reason to.

I so don't understand the point you are trying to make.

No kidding they don't scroll through people's info as a pass time, they are on the job and have work to do. They don't need a key to your information, they need to verify information they already have as part of their protocol.

You're welcome to think your ID alone should be sufficient information, but it's their policy, their property, their rules. If you don't want to give them that info don't.

And most games do not allow you to so casually change your e-mail address because that's how you get people's accounts stolen in such a way that is more difficult to unwind; I can't recall the last game that let me do it without flashing my ID.

You're welcome to think they can't see all your info, I can tell you having worked in similar positions in my life that they do; it would be entirely pointless to ask you to submit it for verification if they had no ability to actually verify it. The picture seems a bit much but it's very likely something they do to protect themselves in case someone tries to claim they didn't approve of the e-mail change.


I find it pretty funny you're qubbling over giving them financial information they already have to begin with. If you were really that concerned with their access to it why did you ever give it to them in the first place?

By law you are only required to show you ID when asked to Police and government.

Well yes, when you're talking about being compelled to show it you're only required to by police and government.

But when dealing with private entities they have every right to deny you service if they ask for ID and you're unwilling to share it just like with banks, credit cards, lenders, doctor's offices and so on and so on...

It's your right to refuse to show it just like it's their right to refuse to serve you for it.

Edited by bakimono

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Posted

It seems a little excessive, yeah.

But honestly, it takes less time to gather that information together and send it to them than it does to make a forum thread about it.

 

Pick one of the following based on your payment method

• first 6 digits of the card and billing address - Open my wallet, type 6 numbers, type my address
•  PayPal transaction ID and  PayPal email address, then send an email - type Paypal into my browser and copy+paste the number from my purchase. Open email, paste ticket number, send
 

Then,

• A copy of your photo ID card, taken in front of today's newspaper clearly showing the date, or over your screen showing this open ticket. - Again, open wallet. Put driver's liscense  in front of monitor, take picture with cell phone. Attach to ticket. Send.

 

Some of it is a tiny bit unnecessary probably, but whatever. It's not like I'm changing my email every week - and gathering this information (Not really gathering, as its stuff you should know or have immediate access to) would probably take under 60 seconds.

 

It's not really an invasion of privacy (imo) as you already shared these billing details with them when you purchased the game. They have them, thats why they're double checking that you're the owner by using that. If I felt that showing my ID was an invasion of privacy, then I'd get invaded at the Bar, the Pharmacy, the Store, on the road, and just about everywhere in society... so I don't care. I'm sure the kakao staff who are changing your email for you don't give one flying shit about your driver's license itself.

 

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Posted

OP,

If you used paypal they are requiring the transaction number used purchasing the game, sent via and email it to them from the related paypal email AND they want a picture of your ID in front of that ticket. Not so bad when I reread the OP. You don't need banking info or address unless you used a visa, then they want the last 6 digits but they don't want your paypal info.

I have had to give copy of ID and last 4 digits of card used on purchase to change email before once, so not unheard of to me. The whole picture in front of todays newspaper threw my mind on a loop of comedy gold.

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Posted

I so don't understand the point you are trying to make.
No kidding they don't scroll through people's info as a pass time, they are on the job and have work to do. They don't need a key to your information, they need to verify information they already have as part of their protocol.

You're welcome to think your ID alone should be sufficient information, but it's their policy, their property, their rules. If you don't want to give them that info don't.

And most games do not allow you to so casually change your e-mail address because that's how you get people's accounts stolen in such a way that is more difficult to unwind; I can't recall the last game that let me do it without flashing my ID.

You're welcome to think they can't see all your info, I can tell you having worked in similar positions in my life that they do; it would be entirely pointless to ask you to submit it for verification if they had no ability to actually verify it. The picture seems a bit much but it's very likely something they do to protect themselves in case someone tries to claim they didn't approve of the e-mail change.


I find it pretty funny you're qubbling over giving them financial information they already have to begin with. If you were really that concerned with their access to it why did you ever give it to them in the first place?

Well yes, when you're talking about being compelled to show it you're only required to by police and government.
But when dealing with private entities they have every right to deny you service if they ask for ID and you're unwilling to share it just like with banks, credit cards, lenders, doctor's offices and so on and so on...

It's your right to refuse to show it just like it's their right to refuse to serve you for it.

The point I am trying to make is that if they do not scroll through my information as a past time they don't randomly read it. They don't know who I am, if I message them giving them all my information I just made one more person know my personal information. While I know and you do not have to repeat they see this information already they are unlikely and probably not allowed to open my account information without me sending them a ticket. While privacy isn't so big (but I don't agree with "privacy doesn't exist" because I doubt you have access to my medical records meaning some form of privacy does exist and no one can walk into my house randomly without me letting them walk in) I still prefer keeping my information more to myself.

That's funny because this is the first mmo in around 7+ of playing MMOs that I had to give a ID to change my email address. Not many mmos do this sorry but this is personal experience maybe we both play different mmos.

I am not concerned with paying them online and I can't stress this enough, I purchase stuff from shady Chinese websites because it's cheaper. I never actually got my bank account hacked into but for me its different I am supposed to pay for a product. Therefore I give them my details I find that reasonable.
I don't find it reasonable to give my card details to change my email.
Paying and changing your email address are two different things, when you pay for the game no one sits there reading your details and confirming your purchase in the BDO staff.
It's the same as
You will give youe medical records to a new health center.
You won't give them to someone on the street.

 

I won't really reply anymore not because I don't want to argue I think this was more of a debate anyway but because we are going in circles saying the same things again and again.

It seems a little excessive, yeah.

But honestly, it takes less time to gather that information together and send it to them than it does to make a forum thread about it.

 

Pick one of the following based on your payment method

• first 6 digits of the card and billing address - Open my wallet, type 6 numbers, type my address
•  PayPal transaction ID and  PayPal email address, then send an email - type Paypal into my browser and copy+paste the number from my purchase. Open email, paste ticket number, send
 

Then,

• A copy of your photo ID card, taken in front of today's newspaper clearly showing the date, or over your screen showing this open ticket. - Again, open wallet. Put driver's liscense  in front of monitor, take picture with cell phone. Attach to ticket. Send.

 

Some of it is a tiny bit unnecessary probably, but whatever. It's not like I'm changing my email every week - and gathering this information (Not really gathering, as its stuff you should know or have immediate access to) would probably take under 60 seconds.

 

It's not really an invasion of privacy (imo) as you already shared these billing details with them when you purchased the game. They have them, thats why they're double checking that you're the owner by using that. If I felt that showing my ID was an invasion of privacy, then I'd get invaded at the Bar, the Pharmacy, the Store, on the road, and just about everywhere in society... so I don't care. I'm sure the kakao staff who are changing your email for you don't give one flying shit about your driver's license itself.

 

It doesn't always take "60" seconds I myself was a victim of the government taking all my documents away. When I was younger my mother was accused of kidnapping so the police came to my house and took my passport and everything I had for 11 years total there were court cases for me to not be forced to be with my father. How is this connected? If you are 16 in some countries you may still be in that situation people 16 and above can register to this game. So what if they are in that situation? Not everyone can get their ID in seconds. So is this fair for everyone? No. 

I did not pay for the game it was a gift. So me showing my photo ID and the card that was used to pay for the game would be a huge problem for them. I mean I am supposed to show my ID but the card won't agree with my ID. So I really will just stay with the email and I guess I won't get any updates about the game or whatever because I don't want to go through the process where

1. I have to give that information (I never gave them my photo) my ID card also has numbers on it that are personal and aren't something they know. If I cross them out how do you know they won't argue saying it's not me?

2. I didn't buy the game it was a gift for me. So they probably won't accept it anyway.

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Posted

The point I am trying to make is that if they do not scroll through my information as a past time they don't randomly read it. They don't know who I am, if I message them giving them all my information I just made one more person know my personal information. While I know and you do not have to repeat they see this information already they are unlikely and probably not allowed to open my account information without me sending them a ticket. While privacy isn't so big (but I don't agree with "privacy doesn't exist" because I doubt you have access to my medical records meaning some form of privacy does exist and no one can walk into my house randomly without me letting them walk in) I still prefer keeping my information more to myself.

That's funny because this is the first mmo in around 7+ of playing MMOs that I had to give a ID to change my email address. Not many mmos do this sorry but this is personal experience maybe we both play different mmos.

I am not concerned with paying them online and I can't stress this enough, I purchase stuff from shady Chinese websites because it's cheaper. I never actually got my bank account hacked into but for me its different I am supposed to pay for a product. Therefore I give them my details I find that reasonable.
I don't find it reasonable to give my card details to change my email.
Paying and changing your email address are two different things, when you pay for the game no one sits there reading your details and confirming your purchase in the BDO staff.
It's the same as
You will give youe medical records to a new health center.
You won't give them to someone on the street.

won't really reply anymore not because I don't want to argue I think this was more of a debate anyway but because we are going in circles saying the same things again and again.

I'm thinking you haven't ever worked a job where you ever actually access people's account information.

That person will be focused on it for all of the 8 min it takes them to fully process your request and they will move on down the line to deal with the hundreds of other strings of account information, numbers and problems in their queue.

And in the 20+ years I've been playing mmo's it's happened to me enough times to recognize it as pretty commonplace. Maybe you've play a lot of f2p games that had different policies, I don't know... I had to give blizzard my ID number in an actual phone call to get my e-mail changed some 5 years ago.

You're not being asked to give your information to some random dude on the street, you're being asked by someone who has your records on file and they are trying to verify it's actually you making the request.

You DID pay for a product, you purchased a license to play BDO and, as such, it has value and they are following their own policy on protecting the rightful owner of that license. If you have a problem doing what they ask you're just going to have to keep that e-mail.

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Posted


You're not being asked to give your information to some random dude on the street, you're being asked by someone who has your records on file and they are trying to verify it's actually you making the request.

 I don't know about you but I didn't provide them with a photo ID or a DL number when I signed up for the game, so that is providing information they do not need to some semi random person.   I'd have a problem providing them with a photo ID as well given that my DL number is a state issued unique identifying number which they do not need and can be used in identity theft.   Since they didn't get a photo id to verify what you looked like when you bought the game they should not ask for one when changing information on the account.    I can see them asking for the original CC or Paypal transaction number as it is something they can verify on their end.    

What if the person got married and changed their name and wanted to change their email.  Do they need to provide the old and new DL?  Or a copy of the marriage license to prove that person A is now person B.   Again things DAUM  don't really need to know beyond a profile update.   

Yes it is DAUM's rules to change an email and they are welcome to have them, but the OP is very much justified in protesting them as they do invade the customer's private information a bit beyond what he finds acceptable.

As for changing your email address in the first place?  Why?  There are plenty of free email services out there where you can get an email not assigned by your ISP.  Use them.  Gmail and Outlook both allow you to forward or check other email boxes from the web app.  Windows has a built in mail client that supports multiple emails.  If you are worried about changing email addresses, have an MMO email address where your accounts get set up from, then forward that account or have another account check it.  Then if you have to change email addresses for some reason you can just alter your personal one and leave the MMO one alone.

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Posted

My account on wildstar was compromised by an employee. Not once, but 3 times. the 1st time was out of the blue, the 2nd and 3rd times happened the following weekend after getting a new account from ncsoft and using different email and user names/credit cards. Needless to say they had 3rd party authenticator /w mobile phone. Doesn't always matter how good security is. At least I got to chargeback 6 months of charges to that game.

I don't know that I would admit to this made up stuff publicly. After the first time I'd never admit to anyone about the second, but the 3rd?

This example has more plot holes than a movie with time travel.

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Posted

Don't give them any info. They sell it on the black market. Get ready to be doxed or squatted.

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Posted

Todays newspaper? Where the hell am i supposted to get those things in this age? :D This aint 90's american detective movie... :D 

Really... Would probably take me more time finding some newspaper guy/stall than for them doin all the work afterwards altogether... :D

They do have the most retarded competitive rating system possible though.

Havent played LoL this season? :D

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Posted

Have much experience with mmo company facing these challenges and attempting to subdue account conpromisations as much as possible.

Sounds good to me.

Shouldn't need to change your email, if you use your regular email. If course many excuses you can come up with why you have multiples, but is irrelevant. If you value your account, use same email you use for real life.

 

+1 to Daum for taking account credentials and verification of self identity seriously. Stay iron handed.

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Posted

I want to change the email address for my account and they ask me these details:

''• if you used a credit/debit card, your billing information (name and address), including the first 6 digits of the card;
• if you used PayPal, the transaction ID provided by PayPal as well as your PayPal email address. We will also need you to send an email referencing this ticket to contact@blackdesertonline.com using your PayPal email address;
• A copy of your photo ID card, taken in front of today's newspaper clearly showing the date, or over your screen showing this open ticket.''

What in the million years... I play FFXIV which I pay monthly for and I never had to do this to change my email... it is a email and I don't see how they need my credit card... why am I supposed to show the first 6 digits of my card, my address and full name, why do they need my paypal details? and why am I supposed to give a copy of my photo ID... 

over protective much? it is starting to be invading privacy sorry...

If this is some anti theft thing it is pathetic because if someone has my card... they probably have my photo ID too if they stole my wallet. 

you never asked me for my ID card when you were taking my money

 

PS: Don't get me wrong, if they only asked for something like my photo ID then fine... but not credit card + photo ID + full name and my address. Not even starting on the paypal part where they want my paypal email address...

Its common used... It's one of three to validate u are the owner of the account. Its a decent security check. 

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Have much experience with mmo company facing these challenges and attempting to subdue account conpromisations as much as possible.

Sounds good to me.

Shouldn't need to change your email, if you use your regular email. If course many excuses you can come up with why you have multiples, but is irrelevant. If you value your account, use same email you use for real life.

 

+1 to Daum for taking account credentials and verification of self identity seriously. Stay iron handed.

I chaged my email and the email I used to sign up with back then was my main email account. Its common to change email accounts for many reasons and I don't have to keep one for a game as I said it was my main email when I registered.

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Posted

So you have to buy a newspaper? wtf xD

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Its common used... It's one of three to validate u are the owner of the account. Its a decent security check. 

 

When you still have access to your old email? I've never seen it before.

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Here is the funny part... i had the same issue after my wife and i changed email carriers and supplied BDO with all the info they asked for 3 times. And three times i got the same email saying to supply the same info i had three times lol.

So do not expect anything any times soon... i just gave up in the end. The person they have doing the job is a lazy ass f%7k who most likely has never even finished a good Fap due to ever exertion. (Note to the forum mods: Yes that was constructive criticism.) 

1.
having or intended to have a useful or beneficial purpose.
 
Meaning you will read this and and not like what i said therefore wanting to ban or warn me.... hence having no excuse that you did not fix my issue regarding my email change.
 
 

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