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PSA: Kakao challenging charge backs now

243 posts in this topic

Posted

When if looks like they have done it for nefarious reasons ie making false statements to keep you playing and or buying things because of an expectation they set is a deceptive business practice and may or may not be completely legal.

As a business they are held to a higher standard than the consumer.  I doubt they could get any worse press coverage of their game so they probably don't care anymore and while at one time I thought they did, I think I was dead wrong.  They were in it purely for the cash grab.

 

If they never mislead people I would agree with you.  Kakao is far from an innocent player in this.

If I buy a video game play it and ask a refund because it said "Best game of the year" and I thought the game wasnt good at all is pretty much the same scenario here ... people asking for their money back because they dont like how the business model turned out .l

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Posted

When if looks like they have done it for nefarious reasons ie making false statements to keep you playing and or buying things because of an expectation they set is a deceptive business practice and may or may not be completely legal.

As a business they are held to a higher standard than the consumer.  I doubt they could get any worse press coverage of their game so they probably don't care anymore and while at one time I thought they did, I think I was dead wrong.  They were in it purely for the cash grab.

 

If they never mislead people I would agree with you.  Kakao is far from an innocent player in this.

but they never really went back on what they said. 

 

This is what they refer to as a grey area and the reason courts excist

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Posted

I agree for them to do that if the person went over the time period allowed to request a refund. If you buy the game and the terms specifically say that after certain amount of time you can not request a refund, why should you do it and expect them to just hand you the money. This is a ffking business and other are people in it that also need to get a pay check. Why is it so hard to understand. They also pay bills, along with many other things. Why should you get your money back after going pas the time allowed? There are people asking for refunds 2 and 3 months after they already played the shit out of the game. I would be challenging that too if it was my business. Too many self righteous people that want it all for nothing.

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Posted (edited)

Look up ITT.

For profit colleges are being shut down and students loans forgiven (refunded) because of false advertising of the schools job placement rates IE using people who work at fast food places or as bartenders and saying they were placed into a job in their field to pad their placement rates.

So some students who have degrees are getting their money back so this is a similar situation that says its possible for false or misleading advertising to result in a refund even if product was used.

Edited by Beld
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Posted

I was very happy when people said that they weren't challenging the charge backs because instead they were banning them from ever playing BDO.  It's like they were taking out the trash and good riddance to them all.  My concern was that if they didn't refund them they also couldn't ban them although I don't really know the laws as they would apply in this case.

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Posted

no.  you got what you paid for, Beld.  terrible example/.

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Posted

People still think they can chargeback weeks and even months after buying and using the product?

"Not liking recent changes in a MMO" is surely not a valid reason (like not receiving purchased item or stolen credit card), it's simply a fraud then, if that's your habit you will find yourself banned from all payment services in the future.

"Not liking recent changes in a MMO" - that the MMO advertised their product by strongly removing those changes for our region = false advertising / fraud. So the people that bought their product and played for couple of months should get compensated for the lost time. There are laws against that kind of exploiting and cash grabbing and not a single company won that kind of case

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Posted

If they say We use B2P Model coz we dont want p2w elements .......... ( and then u go with p2w elements)

If you dont even spend money to fix servers from start they are laggy , desync ( crappy shit servers a company that made so much money and can`t have some decent servers or some decent support)

To be honest Kakao is a cheap ass gaming company and dont deserve a player base

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Posted

People got lied to and then refunded the game. They are not playing anymore, why are you guys trying to witch hunt some old players who got out when they discovered that the publisher/game devs were going against their initial word on how the game was going to operate?

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Posted

I charged back all of my 670euros spent and I'm still playing.
git gud

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Posted

People still think they can chargeback weeks and even months after buying and using the product?

 

Yes, because that's how the law works son.

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Posted

68999.jpg

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Posted

I only spend $30 on the game and feel I'm owed at least $25.99 at this point. 

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Posted

This is not only a product but a service aswell. IF you have cited desync as the issue then you are entitled to all monies back. I mean why go down the grey road of "they lied" , far better to just say "desync" - more truthful than kakao anyway

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Posted

They played the game already.  Nobody lied to them.  They commit fraud demanding refunds NOW.

Tell that to the guys that bought the game for the promised open world pvp.

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Posted

haha all you fraudist pricks im glad you cant get your money back :D

I charged back all of my 670euros spent and I'm still playing.
git gud

reported

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Posted

Youre all wrong, the chargebacks are justified the wording of Kakao games was purposefully misleading multiple times.

Maybe youre all from the US but in EU we got something like Consumer Rights.

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Posted

AND get removed from the forums.  Please, remove them from the forums.

Yep hopefully soon -_-

I love your forum picture by the way, beautiful character....as for your comment there will be changes made to the forums is what the promise is. As per PM Jouska, "We are working on a system to link forum accounts to game accounts which once complete will allow for more accurate forum polls, but until then a poll can not be counted as the most reliable source" and I am personally assuming until that change... there will not be a definitive change until we receive accurate votes. We are also working on bringing more of our GM's to better assist on the forums and report issues to our team. xD So you will be seeing much more from me. <3

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Posted

Yep hopefully soon -_-

Like I said there will be more GM's on the forums that will be monitoring and taking action. 

I charged back all of my 670euros spent and I'm still playing.
git gud

Is that so? Noted. 

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Posted (edited)

VERY strongly disagree with both and if the second is correct its a matter for a court room to decide ;)

still waiting for them (players) to prove they (company) lied. every person that brought stuff has brought things to light and twisted the words. they didnt lie or mislead, people ASSUMED and that was THEIR fault not the company.

like they stated any charge back will more than likely net you a ban as its fraudulent and they are right on that account.

Edited by Noble One

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Posted

Wanna bet?  I was the manager of Wendy's ages ago.  If anyone brought up a sandwich and they didn't like it we just made them a new one.  End of story.  Heck if they said they ordered a double and they got a single or we charged it as a single we gave them a double.  It didn't happen very much.  It was better to keep the customer and avoid a scene in the store.

Wendy's was very unlike Daum Kakao with a moving target for things like P2W, Awakenings all coming at once and many other "promises" or statements made by them which they failed to keep. 

Nobody is getting their money back for the game now as it is past 6 months so KaKao is now in a weird place where if they ban you from the game for a charge back then I think you can easily get your game money back as they are denying you the content that you purchased. 

I think it is very reasonable now since once again they "lied" mislead about awakening that people have the right to ask for refunds as my class has to wait months while my purchases were based on being able to use those weapons immediately as stated previously.  It is obvious to me and probably to any attorney, Judge and paypal that these little mis steps were done on purpose with the sole reason to milk the player base out of more money.

Nobody is going to court to fight any of this.  The $$$ amounts are not high enough, unless someone gets a class action suit going then maybe.

Unlike a gaming Company where you can't just go ahead and make a new game for the poor idiot that does not like the game he bought, you can easily do that in a food restaurant. If a customer does not like its sandwich he will get a new one for the reasons you told. You don't want that moron customer to make a scene in the store causing others to watch and maybe degrading your reputation. But your example lacks one thing, which is the fact that said moron customer does not liked the Sandwich he was eating/ordering from you for a few days, he still eats it everyday, then yhe decides that he does not like it anymore and he comes to you and requests a refund for all of the sandwiches he ate so far.

Or to fluff it more up. He was ok with the sandwich ordered it everyday over the course of a month, then your store made a little change to the sauce and he decides that he does not like it anymore and requests said refund for all the 30 other sandwiches he already ate..

 

A software product is not like a sandwich, a book or a piece of clothing. You open the package and this basically cancels your right to return and refund right away. Broken Seal on a Music Album CD and you will only get a refund if the store is accommodating and does the refund. Otherwise they say no and you can not argue against it. Or if you take a Computer game DVD. (Ignoring the fact that most games are purchased online and downloaded nowadays it still applies to it) Opening the Games box, breaking the sealed packaging already denies your chance of a refund. Why? Because breaking the seal means you had access to the games activation/Installation Key and you maybe used it already. The Store can not check if the key is used or not, thus they can not go and resell the game again, they have to destroy the cd/DvD. Same goes for online downloaded games, each of them has a keycode, once used this code is gone. Sure Steam and the other platforms offer a refund for a certain amount of time. For steam its like 2 hours of playtime? Whichs counter starts when you first start the game from your library. If you exceed this time you can not refund the game. or if you do you have to be lucky and good reasons for it.

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Posted

It's about time Kakao found the time to look into and refute if necessary any fraudulent claims. Hopefully those that did chargeback without a valid reason (stating they were lied to is a fallacy since it never happened) are gone for good from both game and forums.

I charged back all of my 670euros spent and I'm still playing.
git gud

I'm the Queen of England...see what I did there?

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Posted

Unlike a gaming Company where you can't just go ahead and make a new game for the poor idiot that does not like the game he bought, you can easily do that in a food restaurant. If a customer does not like its sandwich he will get a new one for the reasons you told. You don't want that moron customer to make a scene in the store causing others to watch and maybe degrading your reputation. But your example lacks one thing, which is the fact that said moron customer does not liked the Sandwich he was eating/ordering from you for a few days, he still eats it everyday, then yhe decides that he does not like it anymore and he comes to you and requests a refund for all of the sandwiches he ate so far.

Or to fluff it more up. He was ok with the sandwich ordered it everyday over the course of a month, then your store made a little change to the sauce and he decides that he does not like it anymore and requests said refund for all the 30 other sandwiches he already ate..

 

A software product is not like a sandwich, a book or a piece of clothing. You open the package and this basically cancels your right to return and refund right away. Broken Seal on a Music Album CD and you will only get a refund if the store is accommodating and does the refund. Otherwise they say no and you can not argue against it. Or if you take a Computer game DVD. (Ignoring the fact that most games are purchased online and downloaded nowadays it still applies to it) Opening the Games box, breaking the sealed packaging already denies your chance of a refund. Why? Because breaking the seal means you had access to the games activation/Installation Key and you maybe used it already. The Store can not check if the key is used or not, thus they can not go and resell the game again, they have to destroy the cd/DvD. Same goes for online downloaded games, each of them has a keycode, once used this code is gone. Sure Steam and the other platforms offer a refund for a certain amount of time. For steam its like 2 hours of playtime? Whichs counter starts when you first start the game from your library. If you exceed this time you can not refund the game. or if you do you have to be lucky and good reasons for it.

Its more like eating the same sandwich for couple of months every day and you like it and then the next day you buy the same sandwich but with different recipe and you don't like it, that makes it normal to ask for your money back for that sandwich because noone told you the recipe is different as of today.

It is quite different when buying a Game box, because it is a complete(finished) game and they are not changing anything with that game after you buy it. However buying a non p2w game which managers advertise as a non p2w game in the future and stating that they are strongly against it and couple of months after that applying p2w patch which intention is cash grabbing is considered as false advertising, fraud and misleading.

here in EU we got laws that are strongly against that kind of frauds.

I'm wondering why some people aren't getting this matter to court and ask for compensation for the lost time, because when customer is against a big company it is usually judged in favor of the customer

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Posted

In the US this won't go to court. Charge backs in the US are handled through arbitration and I'm sure you'll find that stated in your card agreement. The consumer usually has the upper hand in these situations, though the people that used a product for months are not going to have an easy argument. I also can't say where the arbitration would be held(it's a process that may not get that far) but you'd have to get yourself there and the loser would be responsible for all costs associated with the case. 

 

As far as people that already got their money back, it may not have been enough to fight for, they could have missed the filing date to stop it or your card company policy may be to give you the money back initially even though the issue isn't resolved. That doesn't mean you'll get to keep it.

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Posted (edited)

Tell that to the guys that bought the game for the promised open world pvp.

Is there not OWPVP? Can you not engage another player in PVP on the map outside of safezones? Just because it might not meet your expectations, that doesn't diminish the fact that there is indeed OWPVP in BDO.

Edited by NightFyre
Punctuation

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