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PVP punishment [Karma bombing and Griefing]


Poll:   182 votes

  1. 1. What do you think?

    • Yes, this is a huge problem within the game and needs to be solved quickly.
      107
    • No, I've not had any problems with this nor do I think I ever will.
      51
    • I'm not sure, I can see how this could upset people both if fixed and if not fixed.
      24

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103 posts in this topic

Posted

What most people here don't seem to understand is that this is a moral issue. Stealing someone's mobs over and over again is nothing against the rules. However it does hurt the community.

The PK system was invented to provide pvp everywhere in the world. In a game that is so heavily focused on mobgrind like BDO, it is only natural that players will PK to keep unwanted visitors from taking their grindspot. Flagging on people is a choice, yes, but it is also a choice to be a dickhead. You lose 63k karma for a player kill, you can only kill 4 players before you go negative. The punishments for dying as a negative karma player are insane, so no one wants to become negative.

Players who knowingly abuse this "4 kills max system" are creating toxic behavior, which in turn spreads throughout the community. One thing you guys seem to forget is that PA intended the game to be this way. On KR you still lose 1% for every death. Is it fair? No. Does it benefit the strong more than the weak? Yes, absolutely. It is however what the developers chose to implement into their game, and now that the western carebears cried their eyes out for the 1% penalty to be removed, we end up having an unfinished system that can easily be abused for toxic behavior.

Kind Regards,

Vanille

KR removed EXP loss in PvP already 2015...... just that you know....

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Posted

Because both PVP and PVE mix quite often in the game? I'm starting do doubt you even owning this game, the amount of PVP that happens at sausans is ridiculous. 

be sure that i play this game since cbt, also on RU client before... 

So you got upset over the amount of pvp, got upset that is no efficient way to punish other player that "steal" your monsters? 

The only thing you want with your "solution" is a way to harm weaker people, that you can claim a spot ingame?

You are really upset, that u cant kill ppl as long as you get your will, cause others have only rights, when they are stronger?

this is sparta?

No,... this is BDO an open world massive multi player sandbox game, with pvp elements. If you kill one - you get punished - the system wont benefit the stronger, cause pa saw that a punishment of weaker ppl is the wrong way.

You are really upset, cause u cant level, grind, farm efficient... but if you think that online stuff would be "yours" and it could be "stolen", you really should check your screen... All content of BDO cant be owned by a player, so noone can steal that shitz...

greetz

Babbelfish

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Posted (edited)

Okay, first of all I would like to say; yes I do know topics have been made over pvp punishment systems, however in my opinion not to an adequate level of depth.

I wanted to start by saying I really appreciate the calmness and thought you put into this thread. Disagreeing is fine, but doing it without being a jerk seems to be a lost art. :)

The no-xp-loss change was done, so they say, to benefit lower level, lower geared players. They said it was so new players could catch up as they felt higher level players were suppressing the growth of upcoming players. I can't find the statement now to link, but hopefully we can agree that is what their intent was.

The obvious problem, so obvious they must have thought about it, is that players can now disrupt each other easily with no real consequences. I can only imagine they are either fine with this, or they haven't thought of something to counter it.

 

I'm a level 58 Valkyrie, with a combined AP/DP of 480 meaning I can beat most people in pvp, which means holding a spot while grinding in pirates for level 59 isn't [or wouldn't have been] difficult. However with the changes of the pvp system, it has became apparent that if someone wants to upset you and disrupt your grinding session with no punishment what so ever even without sufficient gear to kill you they can.

A stronger player can do the same thing to you, if they so choose. But at least the stronger player won't be able to take 1% of your xp by killing you. Because so few are stronger than you, the new mechanic would certainly seem quite unfair to you. But remember it is to help weaker players.

 

As you can imagine while grinding to level 59 the newly introduced 200% 30 min experience buff is extremely useful for me, while using it this morning I encountered a player who had previously been upset with me due to previous Guild vs Guild situations. This player had a lot less AP and DP than me, however with him being a sorceress and me being a Valkyrie, he could easily out farm me using his awakened weapon.

Without being a jerk, if someone can kill faster than you, shouldn't they be allowed to? Based on your description of the situation, they were just being a jerk directly killing enemies just in front of wherever you moved, but can that type of griefing just be reported and let them get a temp ban and possibly get you reissued your exp buff? Not the best solution, I know, but jerks are always going to find a way to be jerks I think.

 

 

  • Bring back 1% exp loss on death regardless of how you are killed, this would seriously make "karma bombing" almost impossible, as you would be losing progress yourself unless you were already at 0%

I think this one is off the table since they just got rid of the exp loss for the reason stated above. It just switches the griefing back to stronger players suppressing the weaker so that they have a real hard time ever getting stronger, and therefore just quit trying.

 

  • Introduce a buff that is given on death by a player, that if killed by the same player they will lose 1% exp, make this buff last between 15 and 30 minutes allowing the person who is presumably grinding to gain back their karma.

It would simply mean stronger players would hold onto the best spots always and just get stronger. Weaker players would get killed even stepping near the best spots and learn to just take lesser spots elsewhere, meaning they'll likely never catch up. Better than the 1% every death though. It still goes against their stated reason for the change.

 

  • If killed by the same player 2 times in a row within 5 minutes, force them to spawn at a town. 

A different variation on the last bullet item, but with similar results. Strong get stronger, weak have no chance.

 

  • If you flag on someone and kill them, and then flag on them and kill them again with in a space of 5 minutes from the first kill, you don't lose any karma.

This might help a little, but honestly, if someone's being a jerk they aren't going to have any problem waiting out a five minute timer to come back and be a jerk again.

 

  • Spawning at a node makes you lose 1% exp, but spawning in a town doesn't. - Vanille [Second page]
  • Increasing time taken to spawn per each death unless spawning at town - regna [First Page]
  • If killed by the same player again in a certain space of time, give a debuff stopping them from being able to be killed or kill/attack mobs - Zubi [First page]
  • Don't allow node re-spawning after 2 or 3 deaths - Reawakened [First Page]

More variations where the strong get stronger and the weak have no chance.

 

Caladwen also brings a good point that one of the reasons this happens is there is only 2 really good grinding spots, those being sausans and pirates. Their comment can be seen on Page 2 of replies and they make a good point along with ways to fix the problem.

This is a big issue of course. I'll have to go read Caladwen's suggestions for fixing it. If they made spots tuned to various strength levels, they could just drop the no-xp-loss thing and let folks fight it out. Stronger players would be in the stronger areas because they were more profitable and leveling efficient, and therefore those stronger players could fight each other for those spots and have reasonably fair fights doing it. The weaker players wouldn't want the strong spots even if they were uncontested just because they would be much less efficient there, and so would stick to spots tuned for their strength levels. They could even make it where if a stronger player killed a weaker player in one of the weaker spots, they'd lose karma but the victim wouldn't lose xp.

 

 


 

Just read Caladwen's post, some of the stuff I disagree with and some I sort of agree. :)

 

TL;DR - Main thing I'd like to see is have nodes marked with max(level) and max(ap+dp). If you're over either of these thresholds, you lose karma killing someone under the thresholds and they do not lose xp. Otherwise, no karma loss and your opponent loses xp. Finally, buff the higher threshold zones so they're actually worthwhile.

Note: The only problem I can think of with the above are lifeskill PKers. I've been PKed farming just outside Heidel. No weapons, no guild war, obviously just going from plant to plant farming. With the above mechanics, I'd definitely be over the max(level) threshold and would therefore lose xp and they wouldn't lose anything. But, eh, I could use a low level alt to tend my farms, so it'd be my choice to risk it I guess.

Edited by Ahni
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Posted

If someone is that much worse than me, then they shouldn't be grinding there and if you go back and read the original post this isnt to stop lower levels leveling? This is to stop lower levels being able to push higher levels out of their spot via toxic ways such as griefing and karma bombing. quite clearly haven't read the original post, go back and read it thanks.

Uhhhh.... Welp... SO did you even read what I posted? I just ask because your reply had absolutely nothing to do with what I said. The publisher simply is NOT going to reinstall the exp on loss or punish the PK victim as it goes completely against the karma system. Once again, doing so would drive players away in drives and would freeze purchases of the game. You say this isn't to stop lower leveled and geared players from advancing but what you suggest would do exactly that and AGAIN would drive players away in droves and freeze sales.

I myself play Valk and have zero problems grinding, leveling and gearing up. I also have full karma, billions of silver in gold bars stashed away, level 60 and nearly a complete set of boss armor with a few pens there. If someone comes along and is out farming me too much I change spots or channels. You can PK instead but don't complain when you take that karma loss up your bunghole. Learn to play smarter and profit. Because no matter how you or any other PKer articulate your positions or compllain the publisher simply is not going to make it even harder for the 99.5% of the game population to progress, level or gear up just to satisfy the 0.05%

That's the path to ghost servers and a closed F2P game. So suck it up and play smarter or lube up that bunghole for the karma loss. Just accept it because it's never changing. I for one went red on my alt ranger and died due to disconnect, I paid a heavy price and said no way am I going back to being red.

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Posted

@Ahni First of all I would like to thank you for being one of the few people willing to be constructive on the forums. With what you've pointed out I can see why all of these "solutions" could cause problems, I totally understand and that's why I added a little disclaimer saying that I know they're not perfect ^.^ but you're right, with what you've outlined some or all of these solutions wouldn't solve the problem at all, yet I still do think the problem needs to be solved and the current system that has been implemented isn't good enough.

Personally I didn't actually know you could report people for doing something like this in game, I'll have to look further into it however that being said I don't want this to turn into a game where I continuously have to report players because to be quite honest griefing and karma bombing happens far too often at least to me and other guild members.

In regards to the % loss I personally don't think it's too bad of a system, people can kick and scream over losing 1% exp but the fact of the matter is that depending on your level losing 1% exp will be more or less costly, resulting in a more punishing system for players who know what they're doing and know how to stop it, and a much more forgiving system for anyone that is less than level 56 as 1% exp is a lot less to earn at those levels. With this being said I still don't favour it over some of the solutions mentioned and would much prefer a system that would create a balance between killing and dying.

Within this game I feel like there needs to be a balance between things lost between players, currently killing another player will punish you with losing karma, with this comes the possibility of becoming negative and then losing enhancements, crystals and exp where the person being killed loses.. well nothing at all. A system that would make the person being killed lose something sometimes as a deterrent for going back, or simply stop the killer losing as much. 

looking back to this post I do think making more grinding spots than only 2 between the levels of 53ish and 60 would be a real solution to this problem or at least seriously reduce how frequently it happens to people.

@Pizzarolls I'm no longer going to reply to you as you're not helping at all, sorry but if you can't have a normal conversation without trying to be a keyboard warrior I have no interest in you. Thanks.

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Posted

So, with your argument, levelling and getting better gear is now useless because you cant do anything with it? that's what this game is about, don't like it then play a different game. Getting better gear and progressing to better grinding spots, and defending it from other players is what this game is. 

I seriously lack the ability to comprehend your idea of lower people should be entitled to the same things as higher players? news just in - they shouldn't.

It's not about having the same things as higher players its more about people not having the time to compete with people that play 10hrs a day. The game is suppose to be fun for the general public and not just convenient for people that grind a lot.

 

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Posted

Nope, you're level 56? Cool go grind at sausans?! If you're at level 56 you shouldn't be at pirates and also I don't just Pk people? I stop and let them know that the spot is taken and give them a chancel, In fact if you said you had a quest I would happily invite you to my party and help you with it. The problem is if you wanted to grind at pirates, which would be inefficient for you, you wouldn't be able to clear any spots fast enough for it to be efficient, and you'd just get in my way, but yet you can still do that because of the way the game works the punishment.

You should be grinding sausans at level 56, but if you wanted to be a ----- to me, you could just come to pirates and grief as much as you want with no punishment what so ever, meanwhile I am sat here being griefed and not able to kill you more than 4 times, then i'm either forced to leave the channel or just try to grind along side you and lose exp, either one of these is a lose situation for me and its just not fair.

and before anyone says that if he makes enough of a disruption of my grind then he also deserves the spot, even killing one group in a rotation can cause quite some exp loss and mess a rotation up. 

You. Just. Aren't. Listening.

I'm not talking about your precious pirates. I'm not talking about grinding

(Side not you don't even know about grinding. Try leveling a THF and  WAR past level 75 in FFXI and then come talk to me about grinding).

I am trying to illustrate the unintended negative effects of what you are proposing as a fix for YOUR PERSONAL problems.

If I am at pirates it is because some NPC gave me a questline, and I want to follow it to it's end for a slew of different reasons. It's not because I want to go in a circle of the same 50 feet for hours, while telling my Guild mates how much Silver I am earning per hour. This game has so much more to offer.

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Posted

I still do think the problem needs to be solved and the current system that has been implemented isn't good enough.

Yeah, I'm with you there.

 

Personally I didn't actually know you could report people for doing something like this in game,

I don't know if it is to be honest. And they could just respond with "Sorry, it's within the rules of the game and they 'said' nothing wrong." And having to be a ticket whiner isn't much fun anyway.

 

looking back to this post I do think making more grinding spots than only 2 between the levels of 53ish and 60 would be a real solution to this problem or at least seriously reduce how frequently it happens to people.

It is kind of sad that there's a whole huge new region that only a few bother with. Heheh. There are plenty of new players that level up to Sausans or Pirates and think, "Why the hell are all these OP players here and not in Valencia? I just want to be able to level a bit, sheesh."

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Posted

 

 

Just read Caladwen's post, some of the stuff I disagree with and some I sort of agree. :)

pls lemme know what you agree and disagree with and why, really intrested in your opinion about it.

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Posted

 

@Pizzarolls I'm no longer going to reply to you as you're not helping at all, sorry but if you can't have a normal conversation without trying to be a keyboard warrior I have no interest in you. Thanks.

So I wasn't gentle enough in stating raw facts? Or is it the raw facts and an opposing viewpoint that you can't handle? I guess special snowflakes just wish to remain in an echo chamber. So funny when you are presenting yourself as this tough PVPer who can take out everybody >.<  :Shrugs:

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Posted

pls lemme know what you agree and disagree with and why, really intrested in your opinion about it.

Okay, I'll try.

 

1, make all guild declareble, no more free hiding inside completely safe guilds and recieving free ap/dp/hp at he same time.

You want to be in a guild? fine then put yourself out there. Free gains are for games like hello kitty adventure island. 

2, make a war declaration go active within 5 minutes of declaring. the current time it takes is simply to long, most of the time the reason you declare is already solved by the time the war kicks off.

3, make a war have a hardcoded limit of 2 weeks, after wich it automaticly undeclares. after the limit of 2 weeks is reached, the guild who declared can not declare on the same guild for 1 month. this to prevent the top 10 guilds from bulllying the others 24/7. and making wars meaningfull instead of a threat mechanic.

On this guild wars part, it all seems good to me. But, I'd be curious as to what they were trying to solve with the mechanics they have with safe guilds, etc. It could be I just don't know about some abusive behavior they're trying to curb. I get that the Hello Kitty thing is just to poke fun, but it's not really necessary to the discussion and is just kind of insulting to anyone with a different opinion here. Best to make points without being demeaning, assuming you even intended that; hell, you might love HK and, if so, my bad.

 

Because only 2 spots are usefull for xp and silver, everyone and their alt goes there, so the only solution:

1, valancia mob xp and drops increased by atleast 1,5 of not 2,5% of their current values. this gives people more spots to grind without focusing everyone towards pirates and sausans. this gates progression after 53/54 towards sausans, meaning lvl 60's are at the same spot as lvl 55's. creating salty 55's karmabombing.

This is the part where I agree and disagree. I agree that Valencia needs some love; it's kind of a pain to do stuff "out there" and the evidence is obvious by where the players tend to go, Sausans & Pirates. But, I think just buffing Valencia won't solve the problem, assuming you mean to keep the no-xp-loss/karma system as it is now. Once most people level up to Valencia being the best spots, you'll have the same issues again.

That's why I think that essentially having different karma rules based on the level of the area you're in compared to your level is important. But this game is so gear-based, you can't just have the combat level determine the rules, you also need to include ap+dp.

On my previous TL;DR I wrote that I'd like to see nodes marked with max(level) and max(ap+dp). If you're over either threshold you will lose karma killing someone under the threshold and they do not lose xp. Otherwise, no karma loss and your opponent loses xp. This gets us back to the way things were for fair-fight node contesting, but gives us the current system for lopsided fight situations.

Sticking points are that Valencia would need to be buffed to encourage high players to go out there, and there'd have to be some kind of visual indicator letting you know if a potential opponent is a karma-loss one or not.

That and the lifeskill pkers; maybe just drop the max(level) threshold and only have the max(ap+dp) threshold, I'm not sure here. Dropping the max(level) means a high level in farmer's gear and no weapons equipped can tend to their farms without fear of losing xp due to a pker, and the pker would lose karma for being a sht. But... I could see that being abused where a high level takes off just enough gear to get under a threshold and grief lowbies trying to grind. It just sucks that people are jerks. ;) 

 

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Posted

 

Okay, I'll try.

 

On this guild wars part, it all seems good to me. But, I'd be curious as to what they were trying to solve with the mechanics they have with safe guilds, etc. It could be I just don't know about some abusive behavior they're trying to curb. I get that the Hello Kitty thing is just to poke fun, but it's not really necessary to the discussion and is just kind of insulting to anyone with a different opinion here. Best to make points without being demeaning, assuming you even intended that; hell, you might love HK and, if so, my bad.

 

This is the part where I agree and disagree. I agree that Valencia needs some love; it's kind of a pain to do stuff "out there" and the evidence is obvious by where the players tend to go, Sausans & Pirates. But, I think just buffing Valencia won't solve the problem, assuming you mean to keep the no-xp-loss/karma system as it is now. Once most people level up to Valencia being the best spots, you'll have the same issues again.

That's why I think that essentially having different karma rules based on the level of the area you're in compared to your level is important. But this game is so gear-based, you can't just have the combat level determine the rules, you also need to include ap+dp.

On my previous TL;DR I wrote that I'd like to see nodes marked with max(level) and max(ap+dp). If you're over either threshold you will lose karma killing someone under the threshold and they do not lose xp. Otherwise, no karma loss and your opponent loses xp. This gets us back to the way things were for fair-fight node contesting, but gives us the current system for lopsided fight situations.

Sticking points are that Valencia would need to be buffed to encourage high players to go out there, and there'd have to be some kind of visual indicator letting you know if a potential opponent is a karma-loss one or not.

That and the lifeskill pkers; maybe just drop the max(level) threshold and only have the max(ap+dp) threshold, I'm not sure here. Dropping the max(level) means a high level in farmer's gear and no weapons equipped can tend to their farms without fear of losing xp due to a pker, and the pker would lose karma for being a sht. But... I could see that being abused where a high level takes off just enough gear to get under a threshold and grief lowbies trying to grind. It just sucks that people are jerks. ;) 

 

fair points.

My "hello kitty" comment was indeed more of a joke then actually ment to insult people.I do however still hold the opinion that BDO is designed for the more "semi-hardcore" players, given the unforgiving upgrading system ( like accesoiry loss on fail) the harsh rng factors, and simply the time you can sink into BDO im failry surprised that some people expected a "cakewalk" or an "easymode".

In my opinion BDO is not the game one should play if he/she is looking for an easy game, to my knowledge BDO has been advertised as a "Hardcore OW pvp mmo" and currently there are no incentives to go pvp, other then griefing others.

I think Bdo should and needs to be a bit more harsh then most other mmo's/games out there, and as such i have no objections to making all guilds declarable, Hiding in safety ( outside of safezones wich are required in this game to an extend) should be discouraged, on XP loss im kinda split, its to easy to abuse, and above a certain level, to punishing, this could in turn again gate people in lower level area's to prevent them form loosing 1 to 3 hours of progress ( at 58/59 and up 1% xp is a LOT) on the other hand Karma should matter and mean something, i myself see no complete fix for all of this,With either decision you will piss off someone, and all systems will have their flaws and ways to go around it, but currently the sitaution couldnt get any worse either.

 

Valancia sure needs some love, if not to help out the current high rollers who "have" to grind sausans/pirates, it needs help to make it a bit more easy on the lower guys fighting over the same bone as the 58's and up.

What could help is split xp and money from eachother, either mobs are optimized towards xp drops, and no or nearly no money, or money, and nearly no xp, this way people can pick if they wanna push for a level, or for money.

Right now the best spots ( pirates and sausans) are both in the mid to high tier grade on xp and silver, making it the best pick for both.

For example:

 

Bashims: high XP low money

Basilisk: Low xp, High money.

Desert naga's:High XP low money

Desert fogans: Low xp High money

 

This would still keep basilisks a favorable spot for the belt drop, because you can still make some bank even without that infamous drop.

Desert fogans being high silver based also gives those who live in the bandit town, a reason to go out there and hunt those looking to make coin, why would bandits camp/attack a spot where there is no profit to be made?

The list can go on and on, but this might breath some new live into Valancia. and make it worthwhile.

Your idea sounds like a good idea aswell, however a full system  overhaul like that is quite time consuming and i do not think PA will spend the time or money to go that far.

Next to that, Classes who get more DP from either skills, or their gear ( valks, warriors, zerkers) get more punished by this then those classes more focused on plain AP ( sorcs, rangers) but like i said all fixes have their flaws and holes.

 

Either way this is how i think about it.

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Posted (edited)

TL;DR - Main thing I'd like to see is have nodes marked with max(level) and max(ap+dp). If you're over either of these thresholds, you receive a debuff, becoming permanently red upon entering the area, remaining so until you leave the area. Karma is removed from the game, PvP death penalty added back in (unless killed by a red with the above debuff). Finally, buff the higher threshold zones so they're actually worthwhile.

 

Suggestion was a good start, it's been edited to improve upon it. There's zero reason to allow a lvl 60 (or gear equivalent) to farm in the same zone as a lvl 50 (or gear equivalent); removing incentives or increasing risk to do so is a step in the right direction.

Edited by way2bord
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Posted

Suggestion was a good start, it's been edited to improve upon it. There's zero reason to allow a lvl 60 (or gear equivalent) to farm in the same zone as a lvl 50 (or gear equivalent); removing incentives or increasing risk to do so is a step in the right direction.

not true, guild qeust "kill sausans, elrics or whatever" you cant participate with that "debuff" going. so that wont work at all.

war enemy farming manes? to bad half your guild is prevented from entering.

wanna gather some rare materials, like some of those shrooms rarely found in say, mansha's? to bad, go get a low level alt and waste potential gathering XP. and potential shards because lower level = lower tools = no lucky/golden whatever tools.

So no, that wont work.

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@LONGTIME Well, he can't kill me, and if he brought his friends then well played to him, he can have the grinding spot that's how it works...

Good then, less solo playing, more cooperation and guild play. You want more PvE and want to change PvP? Nice hipocrisy

Game have other problems more important than wasting hours in killing each other for mobs.

 

P.S: lvl 58-59 still at pirates? good they kick you out then.....just go Valencia and test your gear, even if isnt "efficient"

You. Just. Aren't. Listening.

I'm not talking about your precious pirates. I'm not talking about grinding

(Side not you don't even know about grinding. Try leveling a THF and  WAR past level 75 in FFXI and then come talk to me about grinding).

I am trying to illustrate the unintended negative effects of what you are proposing as a fix for YOUR PERSONAL problems.

If I am at pirates it is because some NPC gave me a questline, and I want to follow it to it's end for a slew of different reasons. It's not because I want to go in a circle of the same 50 feet for hours, while telling my Guild mates how much Silver I am earning per hour. This game has so much more to offer.

Totally this. Some people just can't understand not everyone likes to farm like an automa but prefer to make quests. After those i never came back to pirates, boring like hell taking a boat and go there everytime only for see a bunch of tree-pissers saying: "owned" over and over. This territory-addicted personality refuge my logic.

I prefer doing Bashim in the desert instead, even with less gear (380 combined) cause is funnier, it's a new place and quests in there gives tons of contribution exp (300 minimum)

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Posted (edited)

not true, guild qeust "kill sausans, elrics or whatever" you cant participate with that "debuff" going. so that wont work at all.

war enemy farming manes? to bad half your guild is prevented from entering.

wanna gather some rare materials, like some of those shrooms rarely found in say, mansha's? to bad, go get a low level alt and waste potential gathering XP. and potential shards because lower level = lower tools = no lucky/golden whatever tools.

So no, that wont work.

Nothing would prevent you from participating. You could certainly enter the zone - you'd simply be red if you were too high level or too high AP/DP.

Stop being such a carebear. This is a hardcore PvP game. You can't expect to be safe from OWPvP everywhere. Have you considered switching over to playing Hello Kitty Adventure Island?

Alternately - do guild quests in Valencia.

Edited by way2bord

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Yep there are other ways to penalize death, losing exp is like losing time, I've read someone proposing a system with a choice of exp loss if reviving at the node while no loss if reviving at the city. It's not the only way though a system with a choice can be a good agreement for both sides of thinking, imo ^_^

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Just straight up bring back exp loss on pvp death. It made everyone think twice.

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Posted (edited)

Just straight up bring back exp loss on pvp death. It made everyone think twice.

And makes High lvl Players grief exp from low lvl Players just for fun.

Which  is 1000 times worse then ks.

Edited by Caduryn

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Posted (edited)

Nothing would prevent you from participating. You could certainly enter the zone - you'd simply be red if you were too high level or too high AP/DP.

Stop being such a carebear. This is a hardcore PvP game. You can't expect to be safe from OWPvP everywhere. Have you considered switching over to playing Hello Kitty Adventure Island?

Alternately - do guild quests in Valencia.

 

i think you have been touched in  naughty spot by an EVUL pvper, pls point out on the doll where he touched you while pking you at a grindspot?

Your idea is borderline crazy and only protects the carebears who wanna grind in safety from the EVUL pvpers.

anywhere on the map should always be accessible to anyone at all times.

now if you have more crazy stuff to spew around, please by all means, let me hear it, so i can either consider you crazy and disregard anything you say, or have a good laugh at it.

Edited by Caladwen Wind_Whisper

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KR removed EXP loss in PvP already 2015...... just that you know....

Thanks for correcting me, wasn't aware of that. I hope you still got the point of the comment though.

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Posted (edited)

blah blah blah hue hue hue.

topkek troll.

You can't have complete safety in OwPvP. You're seriously playing the wrong game.

Time for you to go back to bed and let the adults talk.

 

Edited by way2bord

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Posted

TL;DR - Main thing I'd like to see is have nodes marked with max(level) and max(ap+dp). If you're over either of these thresholds, you receive a debuff, becoming permanently red upon entering the area, remaining so until you leave the area. Karma is removed from the game, PvP death penalty added back in (unless killed by a red with the above debuff). Finally, buff the higher threshold zones so they're actually worthwhile.

 

Suggestion was a good start, it's been edited to improve upon it. There's zero reason to allow a lvl 60 (or gear equivalent) to farm in the same zone as a lvl 50 (or gear equivalent); removing incentives or increasing risk to do so is a step in the right direction.

Your edit is definitely interesting. In a good way; I know tone of voice doesn't come through text well.

However, this game has a lot of features that have players going through zones they'd otherwise outleveled. Knowledge gathering, contribution quests, guild quests, resource gathering, etc. Players spend a lot of time in zones not for combat leveling.

Now, my original suggestion would have these players risking xp loss (and no karma loss for the killer) if killed in these lower zones, just like yours. But yours would have mostly everyone running around red all the time. Apart from being aesthetically ugly, it would also make it hard to have guild wars. You couldn't just go with "if it's red, it's dead" like we're all so accustomed to, unless you're a player that just likes to kill everyone, guild ally and enemy alike. Then again, with no karma there'd really be no reason to have guild wars anyway.

You could implement your idea except don't make players red, just have the debuff icon. Then red could indicate actual flagging, guild wars, etc. like it does today.

It does sound cleaner, in my opinion. They could just get rid of the karma system completely, get rid of the guild war system completely, mark all the node thresholds, add code to apply the debuff, and add code to not take xp from those without the debuff when killed by those with it. Oh, and buff Valencia.

Realistically, I don't see them doing that though. Okay, realistically I don't see them using any of our suggestions, but going past that... heheh. I think they'd want to keep the guild wars feature and some sort of karma system, along with bad-karma-town, etc. Dropping the karma system would also affect how many build failstacks.

I think I'd still rather see the original suggestion implemented, but the more ideas the better. Just try to keep from being insulting, it doesn't help and just makes the other person insult back, and forth, and back, and forth... The forums really shouldn't be for pvp, or at least should be in their own subforum labeled Trash Talk or something.

Updated wording a bit: I'd like to see nodes marked with max(level) and max(ap+dp). If you're over either threshold you will have a debuff icon indicating so and will lose karma killing someone under the threshold and they do not lose xp. Otherwise, no karma loss and your opponent loses xp. Finally, buff the higher threshold zones so they're actually worthwhile.

 

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Posted (edited)

topkek troll.

You can't have complete safety in OwPvP. You're seriously playing the wrong game.

Time for you to go back to bed and let the adults talk.

 

well, arent you a salty one eh, thats +1 to the ignore list. 

Edited by Caladwen Wind_Whisper
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Posted (edited)

I agree that there is a problem and it sometimes goes out of hand (or is totally broken like in the desert) and a solution is needed. But you don't want for the future of the game to lose XP on PvP death (unless they scale it, meaning they take into consideration that 1% at 55 isn't the same as 1% at 60 and make you lose an amount of XP based on level and not a flat percentage) and flat out forcing people to respawn in town can be problematic.

I personally think I would enjoy a system with a cumulative debuff (AP/DP/cast+atk speed/movement speed etc or a direct "-X% damage done +X% damage taken") for 30 minutes if someone respawn at node after being killed by/as a flagged player, making them totally unable to grind/fight after 3 or 4 respawns (meaning the flagged player is near 0 or just under 0 Karma if he started at 300K). No penalty for respawning at town since it's usually used when you admit being beaten and maybe add a new NPC in each town able to "cure" that debuff for a fee.

No real harm done to character progression but the goal of flagging (forcing people out) is achieved. As before the xp loss change, we will probably see the reversed situation as now with people flagging to push people out (instead of kill stealing) but it is fairer as they would still lose Karma and as such wouldn't be able to do it forever unless willing to go red. And also, we would need to remove the inability to wardec some guilds even if it must come at the cost of having a war upkeep to protect the "pacifist guilds" from griefers (i'm not really for it has nobody would return wardecs anymore but we need something to protects "true" non war faring guilds). Otherwise, the flagged player that spend all it's Karma to effectively push someone out would have to face a swarm of players from its target's guild and would be forced out without any mean of retaliation.

So it would basically be the old system with a penalty other than "lose 1%" and the inability to wardec another guild forever if it doesn't agree.

 

Edited by WeaselPaw
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