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Horse Skill Training Question


20 posts in this topic

Posted (edited)

Hello to all the pro breeders out there, perhaps you could help me with your wisdom...

I'm fairly new to the game still, 11 days in, lvl 28 and primarily doing Horse training with a bit of fishing on the side(so far).
For reference my Horse training is up to Skilled-7.

Here's my question. So far I have trained many T3 /T4 horses and finally broke into the T5 realm. Now I am prepping(leveling) a male horse T5F bread from 2 level 4's. I intend to mate it with the T5 female that came with rewards, with both at level 29 for a chance at a T7.
Here's my problem: This T5F started out OK naturally(no enhancements), learned 7 skills by lvl 12. So at level 12 I stopped and took the plunge, got all the training gear I could to maximize/enhance the horses further training, and my own training. Common sense right? Got the Silver Embroidered Training Clothes +1, then the Venia Riding Attire and the complete Lahr Arcien Horse Gear Set from the cash shop. My Hawk also learned Training EXP +3%, sweet! The Lahr Arcien Horse Gear Set description also says that: "Equipping  4 or more pieces of any gear , regardless of of set, will increase the chance of learn a skill" , very good news.

Awesome! So on paper, it seems I should squeeze the MAX out of my new horse and myself. So everything went great until I equipped all this stuff and the horse stopped learning all skills, not slowed down, but completely stopped! 13 levels later at lvl 25 it still has the same 7 skills, has not learned 1 single thing, grrr. Did all this gear bug my horse?

After a few failed levels, I also bought the most expensive armor I could afford too(which shouldn't matter), but nothing changed. I tried running with no gear again, and nothing changed. No matter what I do to  this horse, nothing changed, and it WILL NOT learn any new skill. Is this a known bug? I cant believe any RNG could fail to produce 13 times in a row, the chances of that happening are simply astronomical. It's like rolling snake eyes 13 times in a row, its simply not possible. For the record, I leveled most my T3's and T4's to level 20~25ish, and they ALWAYS learned more skills, with ZERO training gear. This is a real let down, especially after the 2 cash shop items. Has this ever happened to anyone else?

So What should I do from here?

1) Should I trash this horse?
2) Should I stop wasting time training it any more?
3) If I breed this horse, will it's "dumbness" be inherited?
4) Should I throw away my training gear?
5) Should I move on to other horses and keep my hopes up?
6) Should I just submit a support ticket, because this really does sound like a problem?

All suggestions are helpful, and I'm a bit afraid that if something is broken, the trend will continue on all my other horses. At this point I'm literally afraid to start training any more horses until I resolve this issue(?). Thanks for any help.

Edited by DragonFear

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Posted

Dragon - It just happens, and happens to all of us.  RNG. Sometimes they start off with a great burst of skill learning, then decide they are worn out, and prefer to munch daisies in the field rather than learn anything else. Learning nothing in 13 levels is not that rare.  Especially since yours learned so many for a T5, early.

Most of the horse breeders do not think the costume helps at all for skill learning, and if it does it is miniscule.  Your Venia gear will help with how fast your horse levels so that is great and the crafted clothes at plus one should be replaced by the ones your earn at trainer professional, I think.  The latter will be better, there is hidden stats in it. Again, these will help only with how fast your horse levels up.

Since your horse will be used for breeding, does it really matter how many more skills it gets?  At higher levels, when you think a horse is a keeper, you can always check out the skill change coupons, but I do not recommend it at this level, especially for something you will be breeding then probably exchanging.

Some great info in the mega thread, hopefully the website will be changed soon so things will be easier to find in there.  Best of luck!

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Posted

Thanks for the reply :)

I'm working really hard to reach the training pro level, it just takes soooo long. As soon as I'm there I'll get the training gear you suggested, thanks.

Since your horse will be used for breeding, does it really matter how many more skills it gets?

 I'm not sure, I guess that's a question I have too. Do skills matter when it comes to breeding? Or are skills pure RNG and not related to the breeding process?

 

Some great info in the mega thread, hopefully the website will be changed soon so things will be easier to find in there.  Best of luck!

Agreed. I read a couple hundred replies, but it's a bit overwhelming with 22K+ unorganized replies in there. I bet there's probably a lot of useful info hiding in there.

Thanks, I'm apparently going to need all the luck I can get
:D
Speaking of luck, do you have any idea if the luck stat is helpful with horses in any way?

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Posted

The smartest horse I had so far was a T4 A male that learned 12 of its 14 skills.

Since I'm mostly leveling T5s and T6s now for breeding, I tend to exchange the male with the dumbest of the two females and at the end of my spree I will look at my "smarter"  females and see who I want to keep and who gets traded in with surplus males.

But the last couple of sets have felt particularly dumb. I level T5s to 24 and I don't think I've had one that has learned 10 skills in the last month.  Working on a pair of T6s now so hopefully they'll be a bit smarter.

I have the Venia attire and +2 training clothes, but that's all when it comes to gear.

 

 

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Dragon, from all that has been discussed, a 'Fennel'* horse has as good a chance at turning out a nice high tier horse in breeding as an Einstein horse. Other than anecdotal observations and those far between, skills do not affect breeding outcomes.

*Fennel a legend in the breeding thread and featured in a story, the story of a horse who just wanted to eat grass and skip skill classes until late in life. Even this last hurrah left this poor horsie in the 'Bless your heart' category.

To what Ramblin said, yes the clothes you get at Pro training seem to sit around 17% xp bonus, so are better than silver until they hit +3.

For luck, again very anecdotal and have seen in the massive thread just as many good results with no luck as with and just as many bad with great luck as with no luck.

If you are looking to up your training fastest, quickest is by taming new horses, leveling them fast into about lvl 8-10 as it goes quickly with low horses, breeding or selling then repeat. Maybe even level them to about 5 as after that it gets slower. Training, other than getting the rewards at Pro, does little it seems. I have personally experienced slightly easier taming (Anecdotal) and have noticed when training a skill on a horse, it goes up faster with Pro 9 than one of my alts with beginner. Ie, five tries at the 'Sprint' minigame will give my pro 3-4% in the sprint skill while 5 tries on my beginner alt will give me 2-3% tops. Again could be anecdotal.

Horse costume and skills? I am simply glad 75% of the reason I got the costume was the slight stat increases and loved the look. If it was only for skill chances I would be perturbed as I have seen no change in chances with it. From people noting it in the megathread, it seems the brand is the same, does little to nothing for your chances at learning skills, even people with both horse costume and brand saw no noticeable difference in skill learning.

As a side note, I have noticed a lot of people mention a horse stop learning once they equip the costume (anecdotal) but this could simply be because it was equipped after all the easy skills were learned and it hit the harder to achieve skills.

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Posted (edited)

I have the Venia attire and +2 training clothes, but that's all when it comes to gear.

I read in a few places that the pro training clothes were better than the silver embroidered training clothes unless you get to the +3 stat @20%. Apparently the pro clothes have a hidden(?) 15% horse exp, plus the labeled 10% training boost. I cant wear them yet, so I can only attest to what I've read so far. Best of luck on the T6's!

 

 

@Daelyn , thanks for all the good info :)
On a side note, as soon as I posted this, my horse learned High Jump at lvl 26, lol. Now I'm re-energized!

Edited by DragonFear

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Posted

11 days in this game , and u are skilled 7 :))....u didnt played this game u just been afk while lvl-ing your horse:)). I play since beta and i have same lvl at training 

Anywhay , if u like to ride horses go for it, but if u whant whant only to have a decent horse i think is better to just buy one and dont louse so much time in lvl-ing them for a chance of a better horse.So far as i know training lvl is kinda usles ..

And to be on topic with T6 male lvl 29 and female(from event T5 lvl 22) i got a T7 female. And with that T7 with my main t7 both lvl 30 i got my first T8. The "bug" with skills happens to me  from lvl 13 until lvl 25 i got 0 skils but last 5 lvl i got evry time skils....so is just RNG

Gl with your breeding!!

This game is to awsome to focus only on breeding. Have fun

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11 days in this game , and u are skilled 7 :))....u didnt played this game u just been afk while lvl-ing your horse:)). I play since beta and i have same lvl at training 

I wish it was all AFK training. I did it the hard way, I tamed about a million horses, lol xD ...the good news is I found taming locations that aren't on google(yet).

Training level actually goes up faster than it does with the AFK method...but I do the AFK'ing too, when I'm not taming (I split it with AFK fishing).

Oh, I'm definitely having fun in the game, I'm doing almost every little side quest + all the main quests, I just REALLY enjoy the horse stuff for some reason <3
It's fairly profitable too, at least for a new player.

And thanks!

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Posted

It happens all the time and it's not a bug. It's just RNG. Some horses are smarty and some are potatoes and no gear can help them.

Right now I'm leveling t7 female, who at level 25 has only 6 skills. But I'm not too bothered, since I intend to breed and then exchange her.

Good luck with your breeds, even dumb mares can give a birth to high level smart foals. :)

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Good luck with your breeds, even dumb mares can give a birth to high level smart foals. :)

Good to know, ty.

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Just make sure not to spend too much money on horse cash shop stuff... buy breeding resets for T7 and up only, it´s gonna save you lots of frustration ( and money) :D

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I have used the horse training costume, and had many horses gain valuable skills while wearing it. Had a T6 with 15 of the 16 possible skills: 5 skill change coupons used to replace Forechop starting at level 24 (It learned it again at 25, 27, 28, 29, I then waited till 30 to reroll it). It was branded at level 30 for repairs/recovery during wars. Despite the tooltip of branding, it was sold on the horse market for 39M with 9 deaths

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: 5 skill change coupons used to replace Forechop starting at level 24 (It learned it again at 25, 27, 28, 29, I then waited till 30 to reroll it).

Btw, why did you do that?  Is it higher chance to learn a skill at all if forechop is not learned yet?

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Anyone know the answer of my post above?  Desperatly to know, got a purebred and want as many skills as possible

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Some people believe that using coupons to replace low value skills (such as forechop/hindkick, etc.) later on when a horse has mainly good skills left to learn gets them more skills in the end.  I'm not one who believes that but some really swear by it and seem to have had good luck.  I will say I tried it.  I had a horse with 12 skills at level 16.  Only skill left to learn I really wanted was IA so I took a chance and re rolled forechop.  Too bad I still had caution to learn so that is what I got.  From level 16 to level 30 he never learned another skill, not even forechop.  He was done learning.  RNG is RNG.  So up to you if you think it might work for you.  My horse also gives an answer to the original post that yes, you can go THAT many levels without learning a skill.  Lots of great info in the stickied thread at the top regarding horses.  Good luck with breeding.

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Posted (edited)

There is a great guide on the first page of the Year 2 Mega Horse Thread stickied at the top of the forum.  That's where you will find all your info and can share you success and sob stories!

Wow, just noticed this was kinda old......oops.

Edited by Starrberry

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There is a great guide on the first page of the Year 2 Mega Horse Thread stickied at the top of the forum.  That's where you will find all your info and can share you success and sob stories!

Wow, just noticed this was kinda old......oops.

the original post is old but the question asked above my post is new so relevant.  They asked twice so I figured they were still looking for answer.  Now they have 2!

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The approach breeders take to using pearl items for horses has to do with how we believe they learn skills. (This post is going to be long, fair warning.) There are essentially two schools of thought:

1) Some believe that horses learn skills via a random percent chance roll when the horse levels, with basic skills being weighted with a higher percent to roll/learn.

Based on this belief, certain trainers will buy skill change coupons and trade out something basic like Fore Chop every time the horse learns it as it levels, in order to increase the total number of skills learned (because it will keep learning an "easy to get skill" that can then be traded out for something rarer). However, time and time again, these horses still learn the average number of skills. This does not appear to change their potential for total skills learned in any way. The only advantage to this approach is failstacking towards a skill you want to learn and possibly increasing the chance of the horse learning that skill naturally as it levels.

Also based on this belief, some will brand the horse or equip a costume believing that it adds a small percentage increase in the chance to roll a skill.

2) The second school of thought is that the horse is gaining skill xp every time it levels, and when it reaches the next threshold it learns a skill.

After leveling so many horses, I have come to the conclusion that number 2 is the closest to being correct, and choosing which school of thought to follow does effect how you use pearl items, which I will explain in a moment.

This is why I think there is skill xp being gained:

-The professional training clothes directly reference Skill EXP. Some will say this effects how fast you can train a skill the horse has already learned, but this is referred to as proficiency NOT skill exp in other pearl shop items. Plus, I see no difference in training skill proficiency with or without the training clothes, leading me to believe there is in fact a separate Skill EXP stat.

-Horses don't randomly learn skills. This is the biggest argument against random percent to roll. Sometimes when you are horse training you will level 2 horses one right after the other that are carbon copies of each other. They learn the same skills at the same level. I have had up to 3 horses on a wagon follow the same exact pattern of skill learning. This is the biggest revealer in my opinion of how the skill system works:

a) horses are born with a randomly assigned preset skill hierarchy
b) that means a dumb horse will be dumb, it isn't just rng
c) you can disrupt the pattern by using pearl items but not by much

3) Pearl Shop Items

For a long time, horse costumes did appear to be bugged and produced a negative effect to skill learning. Around the time that they ninja nerfed horse skill gain, it seems they also tweaked the costumes fixing that issue. However, I have found something I cannot explain while leveling horses. It seems that the overall skill gain is improved by equipping the costume AFTER the horse has hit a skill learning sticking point. On my t8s that typically happens at around 8 skills and level 12-14. Right after equipping the costume, they will start learning skills again. And testing on lower tiers seems to indicate that removing and re-equipping the costume seems to negate the effect, so I think there is still some buggy code.

Do not waste money on Skill Change coupons as a way to increase the total number of skills the horse has. It won't help. Only use them to failstack towards skills you really want and to get rid of skills you don't.

For T8s specifically, it can easily take over $100 in Skill Change coupons to get one of the rare S Skills. (I know of 2 people right off the bat this happened to, one of them is in my guild.) It seems to be cheaper to wait until the horse hits 30 and then cycle through multiple Appearance Change coupons instead, which is one of the few things that will actually give the horse more skills than it could have learned otherwise, and is the likeliest route to turning an ok t8 into a courser for t9 awakening.

 

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Your Venia gear will help with how fast your horse levels so that is great and the crafted clothes at plus one should be replaced by the ones your earn at trainer professional, I think.  The latter will be better, there is hidden stats in it.

Omg why do they do this stuff? Do you know if any of the other achievement clothes have hidden stats ike this?

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Crafted +2 is about equal to the professional gear you get.  This was tested several times by breeders and reported, +3 will be better - but I am not aware of this happening with other crafted gear.

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