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Is RNG making people despair and leave?

847 posts in this topic

Posted

Yeah, sometimes the rng can be brutal, but it's kind of a blessing in disguise. I know it'll get to +15, and I know I'll have easy pri, duo, tri stacks for it when I get it there.

Now this is a great throw away comment. You may NEVER reach +15!  Statistically yes, but what if it took 300 times? What if you had 8 characters each with 100 fail stacks and still weren't +15?

Sure you have latent fail stacks but they may never be used before you spit the dummy and quit.

Then you run out of silver to progress and just get the shits. So in short anyone who says you should welcome fail stacks building up needs their head read. IMO.

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Posted

Fail stacks percentage also cap, at point attempts are made at less that 20% doesnt matter if you have 40 FS or 200 FS, its the same.

The entire system seems to be around "buy Valks Advice and Memory Fragments", it creates huge asymmetries on gear level and worst, it actively prevents players from progression since try Awakening Quest with +8/12 gear, if they revised the tables every time they add new mobs with higher AP and DP requirements that would be one thing but they dont.

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Posted

And items degrade on failure, combined with the FS cap can lead to a LONG (terminal) cycle of failures to upgrade.

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Posted

Now this is a great throw away comment. You may NEVER reach +15!  Statistically yes, but what if it took 300 times? What if you had 8 characters each with 100 fail stacks and still weren't +15?

Sure you have latent fail stacks but they may never be used before you spit the dummy and quit.

Then you run out of silver to progress and just get the shits. So in short anyone who says you should welcome fail stacks building up needs their head read. IMO.

You're assuming that nothing else could possibly be upgraded with those stacks. Maybe I decide to say ----- all and end up going tet on something I wasn't planning on until later. Just because I have a weapon with seemingly broken rng atm, doesn't mean it's a total loss. Some people need to learn patience. Some people need to learn it's just a game.

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Posted

Yes, but we play games for enjoyment.

When our effort put into a game with persistence leaves us weaker than before we applied the effort, then that's discouraging, leading to despair and quitting (or just afk'ing)

A duo anything (Other than dande or kz) is sorta a loss, you cant sell it because there are too many on the market listed at a price lower than you are allowed to list yours.  You cant get blackstones back out of it without degrading it to 15, which of course removes a lot of its value.

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Posted

I'd much rather have the system someone suggest on prior page but a little bit tweaked; all the RNG goes into an item. Once you get the required item then you can apply it with 100% success to your gear.

My tweak is to make it a little bit like a crossover between alchemy stone growth and ultimate reform stones?

An example:

Armour Enchant Stone.

You need to feed the stone with metal crystals to get to 100% XP then grow it with a black stone. It becomes a +1 Armour Enchant Stone. You can use it to enchant a piece of armour to +1 with 100% success. The stone then becomes a +2 Armour Enchant Stone.

For +1 to +5 growth success is guaranteed and therefore no penalty for growth failure.

For +5 to +15, if your growth attempts fail you lose 50% XP.

For +16 to +17, you need use a hard sharp for the growth attempt. If it fails you lose 50% of XP. 

for +18 and above, you need to use a hard sharp for the growth attempt. If it fails you lose 50% of XP AND the item can downgrade to the previous level.

Things to note:

The required XP for each level increases. This is the "moneysink" aspect to the enchantment.

Each failed growth attempt costs XP and therefore money. This is the "RNG" aspect to the enchantment.

Your Armour Enchant Stone will increase from +1 to +20 as a single item but each successful growth can only be used one time for the appropriate level.. To use it again you need to successfully grow it to the next attempt. You can only use it to enchant gear appropriate to the level of your Stone e.g you can't use a +15 stone on a +7 piece of gear. so you'll need to have more than one Armour Enchant Stone. If you reach PEN the stone disappears and you get a load of growth materials back. This is the "hardwork" aspect of the enchantment.

It requires mats you have to craft. This is the "lifeskill" aspect.

The onus of this enchantment means your enchantment progress is still hard, RNG-based, and a big moneysink BUT the failure applies only to your enchant stone and your gear is left untouched. It means your build progression isn't weakened - you simply have to get a boatload more mats for growth attempts.

Weapon enchants work exactly the same way except use a Weapon Enchant Stone item and appropriate black stone/shard. The material to feed your Weapon Enchant Stone is different (Sturdy Plywood or Supreme Hides for example).

Accessory Enchant Stones are a little different; you feed them with mats (a new blood-based material such as crystallised blood [not the trade item from blood gathering] except your growth attempt doesn't need a hard/sharp shard. It requires a second accessory of the same type and the Accessory Enchant Stone is fixed to the accessory you grew it to +1 on. So if you make a +1 Accessory Stone using Mark of Shadows, you can only enhance Mark of Shadows using it.

 

I'm sure there are a million issues with this idea though.

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Posted

127 stacks still no fking TET im about to snap. Thats above max PEN stacks ffs.m  alsfk  aergwsmkql[efsdvmkaerfgslv'>B?.

If you want to be successful, you have to learn to just put it down until the rage and frustration subsides. Screwing something up because you rage enchanted is just going to make things worse. That's how people end up quitting.

Frankly, I leapfrog my gear. Always two sets. I get myself into decent and inexpensive TRIish stuffs and then work on what matters without needing to put it back on yet. I'll only really enhance something if it means I can surpass the current gear so that I can, without worry, work on the other one after.

And hell, when I'm done I'll basically have two sets of decent endgame gears.

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Posted

I'm actually really enjoying Life is Feudal: Your Own currently. Also enjoying Revelation betas.

Honestly, since putting this game down, I've been a lot happier. A lot more productive workouts, better sex, pretty much better everything. The game really does sap your soul.

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Posted

Had my fair share of some tough RNG last night... been stuck at duo dandelion kerispear which was fine since it's only 4 less AP than when I had the blue weapon but then after node war I decided to attempt tri again (for the 4th time) and failed. So then I was like, alright, no problem, let's just get duo back. Well trying to get duo back resulted in another 40 fs and all my silver down the drain and stuck at pri.

This Dandelion has cost me 500m or 600m (300m on attempting tri alone) so far. I expected it to be rough but being stuck at pri feels quite discouraging.

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Posted

As others have said too, remove the degrade and the system would be a LOT more tolerable.

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Posted (edited)

Do like I did: Simply QUIT.

I see no point in "playing" (grinding for usually nothing) this game, where RNG affects everything, pvp is all about gear, no skill involved in anything. This enchanting system and pvp in this game are horrible, and more people are realizing it every day. 

This game is just a cash-grab for newcomers. There are many better games out there where skill means a lot/everything, with no RNG involved.

Edited by Miki
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Posted

Do like I did: Simply QUIT.

I see no point in "playing" (grinding for usually nothing) this game, where RNG affects everything, pvp is all about gear, no skill involved in anything. This enchanting system and pvp in this game are horrible, and more people are realizing it every day. 

This game is just a cash-grab for newcomers. There are many better games out there where skill means a lot/everything, with no RNG involved.

I find myself spending more time farting around with my workers and selling stuff than grinding. But my mentality is to always gain silver which is why I get so pissed off when I RNG my silver into the ether.

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Posted

I'd much rather have the system someone suggest on prior page but a little bit tweaked; all the RNG goes into an item. Once you get the required item then you can apply it with 100% success to your gear.

My tweak is to make it a little bit like a crossover between alchemy stone growth and ultimate reform stones?

An example:

Armour Enchant Stone.

You need to feed the stone with metal crystals to get to 100% XP then grow it with a black stone. It becomes a +1 Armour Enchant Stone. You can use it to enchant a piece of armour to +1 with 100% success. The stone then becomes a +2 Armour Enchant Stone.

For +1 to +5 growth success is guaranteed and therefore no penalty for growth failure.

For +5 to +15, if your growth attempts fail you lose 50% XP.

For +16 to +17, you need use a hard sharp for the growth attempt. If it fails you lose 50% of XP. 

for +18 and above, you need to use a hard sharp for the growth attempt. If it fails you lose 50% of XP AND the item can downgrade to the previous level.

Things to note:

The required XP for each level increases. This is the "moneysink" aspect to the enchantment.

Each failed growth attempt costs XP and therefore money. This is the "RNG" aspect to the enchantment.

Your Armour Enchant Stone will increase from +1 to +20 as a single item but each successful growth can only be used one time for the appropriate level.. To use it again you need to successfully grow it to the next attempt. You can only use it to enchant gear appropriate to the level of your Stone e.g you can't use a +15 stone on a +7 piece of gear. so you'll need to have more than one Armour Enchant Stone. If you reach PEN the stone disappears and you get a load of growth materials back. This is the "hardwork" aspect of the enchantment.

It requires mats you have to craft. This is the "lifeskill" aspect.

The onus of this enchantment means your enchantment progress is still hard, RNG-based, and a big moneysink BUT the failure applies only to your enchant stone and your gear is left untouched. It means your build progression isn't weakened - you simply have to get a boatload more mats for growth attempts.

Weapon enchants work exactly the same way except use a Weapon Enchant Stone item and appropriate black stone/shard. The material to feed your Weapon Enchant Stone is different (Sturdy Plywood or Supreme Hides for example).

Accessory Enchant Stones are a little different; you feed them with mats (a new blood-based material such as crystallised blood [not the trade item from blood gathering] except your growth attempt doesn't need a hard/sharp shard. It requires a second accessory of the same type and the Accessory Enchant Stone is fixed to the accessory you grew it to +1 on. So if you make a +1 Accessory Stone using Mark of Shadows, you can only enhance Mark of Shadows using it.

 

I'm sure there are a million issues with this idea though.

I love you

Had my fair share of some tough RNG last night... been stuck at duo dandelion kerispear which was fine since it's only 4 less AP than when I had the blue weapon but then after node war I decided to attempt tri again (for the 4th time) and failed. So then I was like, alright, no problem, let's just get duo back. Well trying to get duo back resulted in another 40 fs and all my silver down the drain and stuck at pri.

This Dandelion has cost me 500m or 600m (300m on attempting tri alone) so far. I expected it to be rough but being stuck at pri feels quite discouraging.

At 10 tries on my blue Lancia for TRI, with multiple DUO fails, I had spent more than what a TRI on the MP cost. I have the feeling you can guess what I did ;)

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Posted

Within the past 10~ days

Failed duo crescent @ 36, 37 

Succeeded duo @38, failed tri at 59

Failed duo crescent @ 34, failed duo laytenn @ 35, failed duo crescent @ 36, 37. Feels so -----ing good man.

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Posted

Within the past 10~ days

Failed duo crescent @ 36, 37 

Succeeded duo @38, failed tri at 59

Failed duo crescent @ 34, failed duo laytenn @ 35, failed duo crescent @ 36, 37. Feels so -----ing good man.

It would have felt even better if you were throwing silver (*cough* I meant Cron Stones) out with your accessories too.

This ultramegagigakike enchanting is why I no longer enchant my own accessories. I rather hope my rng is good enough to not see "failed to purchase" when a tri crescent or w/e pops up than to just watch hundreds of millions/dozens of hours go poof - even if I have a backup ready.

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Posted

It would have felt even better if you were throwing silver (*cough* I meant Cron Stones) out with your accessories too.

This ultramegagigakike enchanting is why I no longer enchant my own accessories. I rather hope my rng is good enough to not see "failed to purchase" when a tri crescent or w/e pops up than to just watch hundreds of millions/dozens of hours go poof - even if I have a backup ready.

Good luck with that. You have a higher chance succeeding the enchant with 5 fs :S

The actual cost of making DUO or TRI gold quality accessory is significantly higher than maxprice for the item in the marketplace. That's why you'll never see anything but "failed to purchase". Everyone wants to be the lucky buyer.

Instead of setting realistic prices for accessories and take both max % success chance and cost of failstacks into accounts, they decided to turn it into a lottery. The winner gets to buy insanely underpriced jewellery.

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Posted

Yeah, the artificial floor and ceiling prices (especially floor) really hurts the marketplace.  Being unable to list a DUO for less than the other 45 listed means yours will never sell.

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Posted

Good luck with that. You have a higher chance succeeding the enchant with 5 fs :S

The actual cost of making DUO or TRI gold quality accessory is significantly higher than maxprice for the item in the marketplace. That's why you'll never see anything but "failed to purchase". Everyone wants to be the lucky buyer.

Instead of setting realistic prices for accessories and take both max % success chance and cost of failstacks into accounts, they decided to turn it into a lottery. The winner gets to buy insanely underpriced jewellery.

I'd say I've had pretty good luck. So far I've won from bidding recently: Tet Dande GS, Tri Ogre Ring, Tri Tree Spirit Belt, and a Tri Witch's. Still have a little ways to go before I'll feel somewhat complete before I switch out my last remaining duo accessories for tri's.

Even though I've come to the conclusion that failstacks are pretty much a meme with accessories, I'm not sure I would have spent any less money getting any of those items. What I did guarantee myself was a lot of grief and rage at watching money & time just disappear.

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Posted

Yep, I "enhanced" my awakened from +13 to DUO last night in one button push, cost me 140m of which I got 30m back.  Well worth it and no despair or grief from RNG failure of trying to get it over +14 naturally.

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Posted

As others have said too, remove the degrade and the system would be a LOT more tolerable.

I completely agree with this as well.  I've been playing around with that BDO Enhancement simulator a lot and came to this conclusion.

There's no reason to have PEN items be so rare and impossible to attain.  Think about how much better the PvE and PvP could be if anyone could reasonably work their way up to TET-PEN.  I've even considered suggesting them to allow us to force enchant up to TET, keep the degrade system, and let PEN be the gamble.  That's manageable, people can fail at PEN and get their way back to TET reliably.  Regardless, if they changed this they could actually focus on creating more content that is geared towards that "end game" without us running into the "Kamasylvia Issue", where the majority of players will not be able to handle it when it drops because of the amount of gear and RNG it requires.  That is a problem, and a huge one.  You can't just keep creating content for players at the highest echelons (who got there due to being lucky, plain and simple) and then make it so hard to get up to that rank.  But then there's the reverse problem with this system too: If you keep creating content for a more "reasonable" level, then those highest people are understandably going to get bored because everything is mowed down so easily.  The obvious solution is to make it easier to get to the highest rank, then they can pump out "end game" content all they want and everyone will know if it's reasonable content or not.  Then they can actually focus on making things fun and balanced.

Accessing a game's content should not be behind a gambling system.  Sure, you can attempt to work up to having enough silver for it, but even then because they're so rare nobody's going to sell their best TET-PEN weapons except in rare cases where they re-roll or quit.

And don't think I'm forgetting about accessories either.  That system is also bogus.  Sure, destroy the +0 one, I get that, but why destroy the PRI-DUO-TRI-TET one other than to purposely keep players playing for longer hoping that they eventually get something good.  Why destroy months work of progress on an item?  It's insulting.

This current system also leaves new players in the dust.  It really shows that they had to toss +15 Kzarka weapons to returning players in KR to help them "catch up", and even that didn't really help.

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Posted

I completely agree with this as well.  I've been playing around with that BDO Enhancement simulator a lot and came to this conclusion.

There's no reason to have PEN items be so rare and impossible to attain.  Think about how much better the PvE and PvP could be if anyone could reasonably work their way up to TET-PEN.  I've even considered suggesting them to allow us to force enchant up to TET, keep the degrade system, and let PEN be the gamble.  That's manageable, people can fail at PEN and get their way back to TET reliably.  Regardless, if they changed this they could actually focus on creating more content that is geared towards that "end game" without us running into the "Kamasylvia Issue", where the majority of players will not be able to handle it when it drops because of the amount of gear and RNG it requires.  That is a problem, and a huge one.  You can't just keep creating content for players at the highest echelons (who got there due to being lucky, plain and simple) and then make it so hard to get up to that rank.  But then there's the reverse problem with this system too: If you keep creating content for a more "reasonable" level, then those highest people are understandably going to get bored because everything is mowed down so easily.  The obvious solution is to make it easier to get to the highest rank, then they can pump out "end game" content all they want and everyone will know if it's reasonable content or not.  Then they can actually focus on making things fun and balanced.

Accessing a game's content should not be behind a gambling system.  Sure, you can attempt to work up to having enough silver for it, but even then because they're so rare nobody's going to sell their best TET-PEN weapons except in rare cases where they re-roll or quit.

And don't think I'm forgetting about accessories either.  That system is also bogus.  Sure, destroy the +0 one, I get that, but why destroy the PRI-DUO-TRI-TET one other than to purposely keep players playing for longer hoping that they eventually get something good.  Why destroy months work of progress on an item?  It's insulting.

This current system also leaves new players in the dust.  It really shows that they had to toss +15 Kzarka weapons to returning players in KR to help them "catch up", and even that didn't really help.

Lol wait they gave free +15 Kzarkas away?

xD

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Posted

Because a +15 KZ gets you nowhere near ready for PvP or end-game content these days.

 

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Posted

Enchanting is the cancer that just wont go away...

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Posted

Think I am probably done also. Started with ehhh 400m ish. 

Figure i got some cash lets try for gains.

35 fs failed duo witch no biggy 21m

36 failed duo tungrade 65m

37 failed duo ogre (free i farmed them)

35 failed pri serp 60m

36 failed pri serp 60m

37 failed pri serp 60m

38 failed pri serp 60m

failed duo giath 20 fs to 35 (repaired)

failed duo giath again 20 fs to 35 (not repaired anymore)

In the end lost 9 ap from the ears, 15ap from my neck. Thought if be able to make a backup with the money i had but I guess not. Maybe its a sign to just quit trying in this game. 

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Posted

Think I am probably done also. Started with ehhh 400m ish. 

Figure i got some cash lets try for gains.

35 fs failed duo witch no biggy 21m

36 failed duo tungrade 65m

37 failed duo ogre (free i farmed them)

35 failed pri serp 60m

36 failed pri serp 60m

37 failed pri serp 60m

38 failed pri serp 60m

failed duo giath 20 fs to 35 (repaired)

failed duo giath again 20 fs to 35 (not repaired anymore)

In the end lost 9 ap from the ears, 15ap from my neck. Thought if be able to make a backup with the money i had but I guess not. Maybe its a sign to just quit trying in this game. 

Do you.... do you feel it ? the wonderfull "progression" the game offers and "gives you" after your hours of grind ? do you feel it ? do you feel all the reward your getting thx to RNG and all your hard work ? do you..... oh for -----s sake of course not this progression system of RNG hell is a load of crap ! ....

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