• Announcements

    • IMPORTANT - REACH US IN THE NEW FORUM   05/04/2017

      Ladies and gentlemen ATTENTION please:
      It's time to move into a new house!
        As previously announced, from now on IT WON'T BE POSSIBLE TO CREATE THREADS OR REPLY in the old forums. From now on the old forums will be readable only. If you need to move/copy/migrate any post/material from here, feel free to contact the staff in the new home. We’ll be waiting for you in the NEW Forums!

      https://community.blackdesertonline.com/index.php

      *New features and amazing tools are waiting for you, even more is yet to come in the future.. just like world exploration in BDO leads to new possibilities.
      So don't be afraid about changes, click the link above and follow us!
      Enjoy and see you on the other side!  
    • WICHTIG: Das Forum ist umgezogen!   05/04/2017

      Damen und Herren, wir bitten um Eure Aufmerksamkeit, es ist an der Zeit umzuziehen!
        Wie wir bereits angekündigt hatten, ist es ab sofort nicht mehr möglich, neue Diskussionen in diesem Forum zu starten. Um Euch Zeit zu geben, laufende Diskussionen abzuschließen, könnt Ihr noch für zwei Wochen in offenen Diskussionen antworten. Danach geht dieses Forum hier in den Ruhestand und das NEUE FORUM übernimmt vollständig.
      Das Forum hier bleibt allerdings erhalten und lesbar.   Neue und verbesserte Funktionen warten auf Euch im neuen Forum und wir arbeiten bereits an weiteren Erweiterungen.
      Wir sehen uns auf der anderen Seite!

      https://community.blackdesertonline.com/index.php Update:
      Wie angekündigt könen ab sofort in diesem Forum auch keine neuen Beiträge mehr veröffentlicht werden.
    • IMPORTANT: Le nouveau forum   05/04/2017

      Aventurières, aventuriers, votre attention s'il vous plaît, il est grand temps de déménager!
      Comme nous vous l'avons déjà annoncé précédemment, il n'est désormais plus possible de créer de nouveau sujet ni de répondre aux anciens sur ce bon vieux forum.
      Venez visiter le nouveau forum!
      https://community.blackdesertonline.com
      De nouvelles fonctionnalités ainsi que de nouveaux outils vous attendent dès à présent et d'autres arriveront prochainement! N'ayez pas peur du changement et rejoignez-nous! Amusez-vous bien et a bientôt dans notre nouveau chez nous

Is RNG making people despair and leave?

847 posts in this topic

Posted

100% what majors said. Its a complete nightmare for a lot of folks.

Three TRI failures on my Kzarka SS last night. Getting the duo stack is the annoying part but it isn't a nightmare! Just plan, get your resources in order, and accept it's not a race. I'll likely have a few more attempts tonight.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

I cant believe that there are people out there arguing that artisans, inlimited supply of, aren't P2W...I know quite a few people converting those to Tri blue awakening or extra boss gear, while building their Tet stacks and then placing them on Ah...You dont wonder who buys all those blue awakenings-livertos that were in the hundrends on the market? I d say that every artisan memory equates to about 5,5m silver at the current rates....

It's all in the perception. Some people see it as a way to cut time or 'pay to convenience' as you can do essentially the same thing without them, just takes longer to gather resources. Some people see it as 'pay to win' due to the convenience of cutting time and in-game silver, allowing for more chances more frequently. Same could be said of selling costumes in exchange for in-game silver. The thing is, whatever your ideal, you ultimately have to decide whether or not this is a game for you. If that's something you don't tolerate, this won't be your game. If it really doesn't matter to you, the nuances of it don't really matter, do they?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

It's all in the perception. Some people see it as a way to cut time or 'pay to convenience' as you can do essentially the same thing without them, just takes longer to gather resources. Some people see it as 'pay to win' due to the convenience of cutting time and in-game silver, allowing for more chances more frequently. Same could be said of selling costumes in exchange for in-game silver. The thing is, whatever your ideal, you ultimately have to decide whether or not this is a game for you. If that's something you don't tolerate, this won't be your game. If it really doesn't matter to you, the nuances of it don't really matter, do they?

Its not a matter of perception mate its a fact, its a clear advantage that you can have by throwing money at the screen that you can convert to ingame silver by enchanting gear and selling them, and there is no limit on how much you can buy....I dont really mind what people do with their money mate and I really dont care anymore on the effect this has on the game cause I play more relaxed now since I cant compete timewise and moneywise...I just cant handle these people going around saying that its just convenience and no clear advantage cause that is just a load of crap and they know it.....

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

RISE FROM YOUR GRAVE

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Yeah you're not undervaluing how expensive it is to get 7 boss items to TRI, let alone TET. 

Im the person that did this http://forum.blackdesertonline.com/index.php?/topic/115179-enhancement-failstack-costsstrategies/

So you dont need to tell me, how expensive it is. However i did the calculations on Artsians Memory and the effect is not significant enough to qualify as P2W.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Saving billions of silver via consumable cash shop item isn't p2w? 🤔

you have a lot white knight, they all going to pretend that p2w is only when you can get a item more powerfull compare to in game item via cash shop.

They are going to try as hard as they can to preserver their disillusionment of BDO not beeing a p2w game.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

New P2W elements will be implemented all the time, like in today's patch. They make it seem to look like a "minor buffs", many times not even mentioning them clearly in patch notes, but they are adding them constantly. P2W in EU/NA is literally worse than Korea already, people just can't see through their rose tinted glasses and try to defend all the time. Yes, you can sell only 5 pearl items per week, but even the most retarded people knows how to make money with unlimited artisans memories. Whereas in Korea they have 300$ monthly limit for pearl shop items.

Edited by Miki
1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

This all has nothing to do with RNG end game :P

And no, artisan memories 100% do not make this game PTW.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Based on how long this thread is I would say yes. Im still around playing a bit more casual, if something else comes out ill probably jump ship and call it a day.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

This all has nothing to do with RNG end game :P

And no, artisan memories 100% do not make this game PTW.

So you are practically saying, that BDO Korea isn't P2W either? It doesn't matter if it's selling costumes or using artisans memories, both ways will make and/or save you silver. Enough said.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Its not a matter of perception mate its a fact, its a clear advantage that you can have by throwing money at the screen that you can convert to ingame silver by enchanting gear and selling them, and there is no limit on how much you can buy....I dont really mind what people do with their money mate and I really dont care anymore on the effect this has on the game cause I play more relaxed now since I cant compete timewise and moneywise...I just cant handle these people going around saying that its just convenience and no clear advantage cause that is just a load of crap and they know it.....

That's subjective. There's no formal definition of 'pay to win', just a subjective conjecture and what the community deems. So no, it's not fact, and no, you didn't present anything that anyone else hasn't already. You can't buy gear directly in the cash shop. That's pay to win to me. All else is time saving mechanics meant to drain the wallet. Does it borderline? Yes, but I don't consider it pay to win. There are people who would argue that the pets, the weight limits, the inventory expansions, the cooking, training, processing, the shark and fish costumes, etc etc are pay to win. Other don't. So, it's perception. Not fact. You have a choice. Deal with whatever is going on in the game or don't. Stay or leave. It doesn't matter one way or the other, but these are things YOU need to come to terms with.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

That's subjective. There's no formal definition of 'pay to win', just a subjective conjecture and what the community deems. So no, it's not fact, and no, you didn't present anything that anyone else hasn't already. You can't buy gear directly in the cash shop. That's pay to win to me.

What hayate presented is only flat fact, nothing subjective there.

And, whatever if you have more than one step for cash shop -> gear or silver in the end its what you actualy have

Cash shop -> gear / silver  =  cash shop -> step1 -> step2 -> gear / silver. You still start with cash shop to end with gear / silver. The cash shop still is the provider of the element allowing you to get gear / silver.

 

But its fun to see that because there somes "transitional" steps ppl become blind and actualy defend that more ""desguised"" p2w.

Edited by woots

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

What hayate presented is only flat fact, nothing subjective there.

And, whatever if you have more than one step for cash shop -> gear or silver in the end its what you actualy have

Cash shop -> gear / silver  =  cash shop -> step1 -> step2 -> gear / silver. You still start with cash shop to end with gear / silver. The cash shop still is the source.

 

But its fun to see that because there somes "transitional" step ppl become blind and actualy defend that more ""desguised"" p2w.

Again, there is no formal definition of pay to win. If you want to argue about that, go ahead, but you'll do so without me. My point still stands. Whatever your stance is about the items in the cash shop are, and whether you consider it pay to win or not, and whether that's a deal breaker for you game-wise or not, fall on you. Not anyone else. Make the decision. Stay or go. All this whining and griping and -----ing about things you aren't going to change is way past juvenile.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Again, there is no formal definition of pay to win.

When will this meme end? Pay-to-win implies paying for an advantage; it's that simple. If you think making cash shop purchases in BDO doesn't give you an advantage, then I don't know what to tell you. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Saving billions of silver via consumable cash shop item isn't p2w? 🤔

When the overall effect at TET is about 15% and only goes down from there? No. That is about grinding an extra 10min for every 60min a "P2W" player grinds at the cost of several thousand $ at PEN level. Considering that alot of "Nolifers" can spend significantly more than those extra 10min and a single lucky enhance at PEN level can easily save you more than that it boils down to: P2W is something else.

you have a lot white knight, they all going to pretend that p2w is only when you can get a item more powerfull compare to in game item via cash shop.

They are going to try as hard as they can to preserver their disillusionment of BDO not beeing a p2w game.

Sorry woots i usually agree with your posts but calling me a WK is really funny.

So you are practically saying, that BDO Korea isn't P2W either? It doesn't matter if it's selling costumes or using artisans memories, both ways will make and/or save you silver. Enough said.

Of course they do. At the cost of several thousand US $ per PEN item and the effect is less than 20% overall. Do i agree with these practices? No not at all and it is a slippery slope. Add Valks to that (may wanna read https://bdomaths.wordpress.com/2016/07/23/market-bonus-vs-valks-cry/ first) and you start getting into an area, where things may become more unbalanced. But atm:

Nolife > P2W in this game, especially since you cant really make up the xp grind and the additional experience from playing your class. Which is more than the about 5AP the P2W will get you extra at TET level and higher. And we are talking post 220 AP here, where you oneshot people with awakenings anyway, so its not like those 5 AP will matter much.

When will this meme end? Pay-to-win implies paying for an advantage; it's that simple. If you think making cash shop purchases in BDO doesn't give you an advantage, then I don't know what to tell you. 

No its not pay for an advantage, its litterally pay to win . And you probably havnt played enough games to realize that there are indeed games out there where it is once again literally impossible to win against a whale.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Dear diary,

 today i tried to bring my Kzarka, Awakening and Offhand to TET.

I was joyful, had around 520M Silver, 500 Armor/Weapon Stones, 60 Hard, 40 sharp, 83 memfrags

 

After an absolute carnage, I lost items and silver valued around 600 millions, and I'm stuck with a totally destructed PRI Kzarka and a Duo offhand. At least I brought the awakening back to TRI.

This day was an absolute desaster in BDO.

 

but I will come back stronger tomorrow and my vengeance will be rightful!

Herein lies the actual meat of the rng despair sans accessory enhancement: Post-tri enhancement. Good god, I hate enhancing to tet. Actually, tet itself isn't that bad. My issue has been getting failstacks to even try to get my dande back to duo. I keep succeeding and wasting failstacks before I can even get to a optimal level to try to enhance any boss gear. On the other hand, I've tri'd two pieces of boss gear back after a tet roulette trying to build failstacks for the dande. Bhegs popped at 19 stacks and Muskans at 28 stacks. Shit's crazy, and infuriating.

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

This all has nothing to do with RNG end game :P

And no, artisan memories 100% do not make this game PTW.

Artisans are effectively purchasing memory fragments or livertos etc directly from the cash shop, how is that not p2w?

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

Again, there is no formal definition of pay to win.

If you read carfully, what i said, is : you start with the cash shop, you end with gear / silver ;)

White knight as much as you want, but the reality is : cash shop -> gear / silver, whatever the step in between

= its still flat fact, whatever how bad you try to drown the fish

 

I can also add, the definition is given by the word themself

pay = use money

to win = with the intent of winning.

And guess the goal is pretty clearly defined by the devs with everything build around gear, so gear gathering & upgrade, and a forced pvp enabled at lvl 50. ( so pvp based at 90% on your gear power )

 

 

Sorry woots i usually agree with your posts but calling me a WK is really funny.

I said, there is a lot wk, i didnt said you are xD  you miss understood what i've said :P ( or that was confusing ? ) Since i was agreeing with your answer

Edited by woots

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Never thought i'd say that but after 16 fails trying to TET from 45, up to 125 FS, my will to keep playing is somehow very low....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

I was a koreaboo until I started playing this game 

Now the thought of korea gives me an aneurysm 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Artisan memories wouldn't be pay to win if this games community didn't go insane over being able to sell pearl items for silver and make the publisher put such extreme restrictions and limits on selling pearl items for silver.

 

Imagine how much better this game would be if you could buy artisan memories from the market place with silver(which were bought by someone with cash so the publisher doesn't lose money).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Artisans are effectively purchasing memory fragments or livertos etc directly from the cash shop, how is that not p2w?

Because none of those give you a weapon you cant get just by playing the game, in fact you might get it with 0 fs.

That's why its not P2W.

BDOs cash shop is the most pay for convenience ive ever seen, but you cannot get something from it that lets you beat a guy cause he doesn't have access to the same gear.

Dear diary,

 today i tried to bring my Kzarka, Awakening and Offhand to TET.

I was joyful, had around 520M Silver, 500 Armor/Weapon Stones, 60 Hard, 40 sharp, 83 memfrags

 

After an absolute carnage, I lost items and silver valued around 600 millions, and I'm stuck with a totally destructed PRI Kzarka and a Duo offhand. At least I brought the awakening back to TRI.

This day was an absolute desaster in BDO.

 

but I will come back stronger tomorrow and my vengeance will be rightful!

One Tet attempt really needs 1000 armor, 500 weapon, 300 mem frag, 100 conc armor, 50 conc weapon.

Yes, you may not use all that, but that's to deal with the failure and reupping.

Saving billions of silver via consumable cash shop item isn't p2w? 🤔

No, because none of it guarantees you a Tet item.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

Because none of those give you a weapon you cant get just by playing the game, in fact you might get it with 0 fs.

That's why its not P2W.

BDOs cash shop is the most pay for convenience ive ever seen, but you cannot get something from it that lets you beat a guy cause he doesn't have access to the same gear.

One Tet attempt really needs 1000 armor, 500 weapon, 300 mem frag, 100 conc armor, 50 conc weapon.

Yes, you may not use all that, but that's to deal with the failure and reupping.

No, because none of it guarantees you a Tet item.

Actually the billions you save quarantee you a tet item by saving you the money to have the highest preorder...just saying....I just wanna add that just because there are worst cash shops out there in other games doesnt mean we shouldn't raise any concerns about where this cash shop can lead you...and it certainly doesnt mean we care less than the rest of you about this game and where its heading.....

Edited by Hayate
Typo

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

Because none of those give you a weapon you cant get just by playing the game, in fact you might get it with 0 fs.

That's why its not P2W.

BDOs cash shop is the most pay for convenience ive ever seen, but you cannot get something from it that lets you beat a guy cause he doesn't have access to the same gear.

These white knights won't admit the P2W elements, until there really is PEN gear available in the cash shop. Tell me one PVP MMORPG where gear matters, and which has the said best gear purchasable from the cash shop, without RNG? Tell me?

This game is nothing but P2W, and it's been going worse and worse all the time. Worse than Korea already.

Edited by Miki

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites