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Kutum accuracy test - UPDATED Oct. 12th: kutum vs axion vs vangertz

86 posts in this topic

Posted (edited)

A quick accuracy test done with @Chors (also posted here)

TEST1

Setting:

Level 58 warrior (P1) hitting level 59 warrior's block (P2) using armour break skill (3 hits, no bonus accuracy).

P1 accuracy: bmc precision x2, 3-piece taritas, DUO red coral earring x2, 5 acc. guild buff, DUO liverto. Total accuracy for P1: 24 accuracy + DUO liverto's accuracy

P2 gear: TRI grunil set, no evasion stacked. Kutum offhand.

Results:

P1 performed 99 armour break on P2:

 HitsMax possible hitshitrate
DUO Kutum2222970.7475
No offhand2352970.7912

 

These results are consistent with another quick test I did some time ago against a level 59 sorc, with a lower number of samaples (50 amour break). In that case, the test also showed higher hit rate without offhand rather than with kutum. Of course, it doesn't make sense to have higher accuracy with no offhand rather than with kutum, but this might give an indication that the accuracy on kutum could be either broken or negligible.

 

UPDATE: TEST2

Since I was bothered by the results of the test above, I went ahead and did some more testing. This time, I tested 200 tries with TRI Kutum against 200 tries with Axion. I also did 100 tries with TRI Ultimate Vangertz as added bonus.

Setting:

Level 59 warrior (P2.1) hitting level 60 sorc (P2.2) using armour break skill (3 hits, no bonus accuracy).

P2.1 accuracy: bmc precision (weapon) x2, bmc precision (gloves 1), bmc viper (gloves), TRI Kzarka, guild's buff (4, yes we are lazy fks). Total accuracy for P2.1: 12 + TRI kzarka's accuracy

P2 gear & buffs: TET agerian helmet, TET bhegs, TET muskan, TRI hebetate, valencian special, sorc passive. Total evasion for P2.2: 6 + 4 + TET muskan's evasion

Results:

P2.1 performed 200 armour break on P2.2 with TRI Kutum and then with Axion. P2.1 also performed 100 armour break on P2.2 with TRI Ultimate Vangertz.

 HitsMax Possible HitsHitrate
Axion3536000.5883
TRI Kutum3806000.6333
TRI Ultimate Vangertz2403000.8000

These results indicate Kutum should indeed provide some accuracy, albeit really few (~5). The results for Vangertz are consistent with previous test, with a difference of ~21 accuracy vs. Axion. The remaining question is, what the hell is up with accuracy when you remove the offhand? An overall sample of 150 tries (450 hits), when considering TEST1 and also another quick test i did some time ago, indicate TRI kutum having lower hitrate than no offhand. The sample is not huge, but is not negligible either. Honestly, I am not going to test that further since no one will ever play without offhand, but it is a curious result.

Edited by insert_brain
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Posted

LMAO

they got to fix it

Or the accuracy x enhancement level is (-1)

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Posted (edited)

@GM_Dew

 

Op : there is 2x Duo liverto  Should be Duo kutum instead ?

Edited by Decem

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Posted

@GM_Dew

 

Op : there is 2x Duo liverto  Should be Duo kutum instead ?

There is an '=' sign in the middle of that. I wrote it poorly, but the intent was to summarise the total accuracy given by the gear, i.e. 24 acc. + whatever accuracy the DUO Liverto gives.

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Posted

This is just hilarious. Hidden stats at its finest.

Plot twist - What if the description of kutum's enhancement effects is wrong? Could be 'Decrease' instead of 'Increase'.

Anyway, what this test states, and with it many other tests, is: Kutum is either bugged or really that bad in terms of accuracy. Which means everyone who wants to pvp on a higher lvl is doomed without an accuracy offhand. 80% hitrate and the enemy did not even stack any evasion?! I mean wtf is this? Kutum is supposed to give at least a bit accuracy but nothing in comparison to a pure acc offhand. Basically this means going for another offhand than accuracy offhand for pvp is suicide. Kutum is garbage/bugged and ap offhands + nouver don't have any accuracy at all. You hit your enemy "only" 80% of the times and this dummy didn't even stack evasion! (Sry for the repetition but this is so bad for the games' mechanics).
If nothing will be changed here, accuracy off-hand all the way boys. All other off-hands + boss ones are purely for pve then. Affictive but pure reality.

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Posted

This is just hilarious. Hidden stats at its finest.

Plot twist - What if the description of kutum's enhancement effects is wrong? Could be 'Decrease' instead of 'Increase'.

Anyway, what this test states, and with it many other tests, is: Kutum is either bugged or really that bad in terms of accuracy. Which means everyone who wants to pvp on a higher lvl is doomed without an accuracy offhand. 80% hitrate and the enemy did not even stack any evasion?! I mean wtf is this? Kutum is supposed to give at least a bit accuracy but nothing in comparison to a pure acc offhand. Basically this means going for another offhand than accuracy offhand for pvp is suicide. Kutum is garbage/bugged and ap offhands + nouver don't have any accuracy at all. You hit your enemy "only" 80% of the times and this dummy didn't even stack evasion! (Sry for the repetition but this is so bad for the games' mechanics).
If nothing will be changed here, accuracy off-hand all the way boys. All other off-hands + boss ones are purely for pve then. Affictive but pure reality.

That would only be true if offhand was our only source of accuracy and Kutum didn't have the ignore resistance stat

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Posted

That would only be true if offhand was our only source of accuracy and Kutum didn't have the ignore resistance stat

Look at P1's gear, he nearly stacked as much accuracy as possible (yes he misses bhegs but its accuracy also is "just" around 10) . DUO liverto is not bad for acc neither. Only other source with a reliable acc increase would be the off-hand. And now look at P2 - not a single evasion buff was given. Add muskans, possible evasion passives, evasion crystals and omg even evasion off-hand. Your poor 80% hitrate will soon go below 50% dude. And I don't want to play a gambling game when I try to hit others.

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Posted

Look at P1's gear, he nearly stacked as much accuracy as possible (yes he misses bhegs but its accuracy also is "just" around 10) . DUO liverto is not bad for acc neither. Only other source with a reliable acc increase would be the off-hand. And now look at P2 - not a single evasion buff was given. Add muskans, possible evasion passives, evasion crystals and omg even evasion off-hand. Your poor 80% hitrate will soon go below 50% dude. And I don't want to play a gambling game when I try to hit others.

I have more accuracy than P1, so I'm not too worried about my hitrate, and would rather have reliable CC and damage than more accuracy, which Kutum is perfect for

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Posted

I have more accuracy than P1

+bhegs ? I can imagine TRI/TET kzarka and ACW set.

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Posted

+bhegs ? I can imagine TRI/TET kzarka and ACW set.

Bheg's, Kzarka, and Tree Spirit

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Posted

I have more accuracy than P1, so I'm not too worried about my hitrate, and would rather have reliable CC and damage than more accuracy, which Kutum is perfect for

you realize accuracy is required to have reliable damage right?

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Posted (edited)

Ultimately, if you plan to use kutum at this point in time, you need to have at-least bhegs and a tree spirit belt or a red coral earring.

Even with the broken accuracy, kutum resolves in more damage from what I've seen from other tests, and it also has the ignore all res and 2 gem slots. This makes it the better offhand even with the broken accuracy aslong as you have bhegs/tree or red coral/bheg, you should also have precision gems in your weapon so you total 30% ignore all res with kutum.

 

Hopefully they fix the offhand as @GM_DEW did submit it for testing.

 

Edited by Catclaw

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Posted

you realize accuracy is required to have reliable damage right?

You realize I have no problems with hit rate without Vangertz right?

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Posted

You realize I have no problems with hit rate without Vangertz right?

dident say you did. but if you are stating you want more reliable damage but are going for an item with less accuracy that contradicts your statement.

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Posted

Ultimately, if you plan to use kutum at this point in time, you need to have at-least bhegs and a tree spirit belt or a red coral earring.

Even with the broken accuracy, kutum resolves in more damage from what I've seen from other tests, and it also has the ignore all res and 2 gem slots. This makes it the better offhand even with the broken accuracy aslong as you have bhegs/tree or red coral/bheg, you should also have precision gems in your weapon so you total 30% ignore all res with kutum.

 

Hopefully they fix the offhand as @GM_DEW did submit it for testing.

 

I agree with you. Kutum gets usefull when you have enough accuracy to switch out acc offhand. But how much accuracy is needed to get to this point? Would be nice if there were some extra tests regarding this matter. Same goes with nouver, but idk if it will be enough when facing full evasion stacked enemies.

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Posted

Ultimately, if you plan to use kutum at this point in time, you need to have at-least bhegs and a tree spirit belt or a red coral earring.

Even with the broken accuracy, kutum resolves in more damage from what I've seen from other tests, and it also has the ignore all res and 2 gem slots. This makes it the better offhand even with the broken accuracy aslong as you have bhegs/tree or red coral/bheg, you should also have precision gems in your weapon so you total 30% ignore all res with kutum.

 

Hopefully they fix the offhand as @GM_DEW did submit it for testing.

 

I've done some tests too and agree with you that you do need a red coral earring minimum to use kutum.

I did some quick tests against fully evasive 56 ninja with TRI muskan, tadd shuriken (evasion) and +2 evasion helm gems and it was really hard to hit them (I feel that I miss about 30-60+% of the time).  This was at 58 with TRI Liverto, TRI Bheg's, TRI Kutum, PRI Tree belt, +2 crystal acc and +4 acc guild buff. When I swapped kutum for +15 vangertz, my hit rate skyrocketed and but still missed about 20-30% of the time. I then switched it back to kutum + bhegs and equipped x2 normal red coral earrings (about + 6 accuracy) and my hit rate went up and was slightly better than +15 vangertz (around 20%+ miss rate), although the damage was noticeably bigger. So yea from what I said before you'll need red coral earring definitely if you want to be on par with Vangertz off hand accuracy.

I think it's still good to have a TRI vangertz around if you want to go against evasion builds. I tried Vangertz+Bhegs and still missed, but this was about 10% or less of the time. You'll need full accessory build (red coral earrings + bhegs + vangertz + tree belt + other accuracy) to counter full evasion builds. I believe that's the only way to achieve close to 100% hit rate against them, atlhough I'd consider having a TRI kzarka would be of big help too since I only had TRI Liverto.

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Posted

I've done some tests too and agree with you that you do need a red coral earring minimum to use kutum.

I did some quick tests against fully evasive 56 ninja with TRI muskan, tadd shuriken (evasion) and +2 evasion helm gems and it was really hard to hit them (I feel that I miss about 30-60+% of the time).  This was at 58 with TRI Liverto, TRI Bheg's, TRI Kutum, PRI Tree belt, +2 crystal acc and +4 acc guild buff. When I swapped kutum for +15 vangertz, my hit rate skyrocketed and but still missed about 20-30% of the time. I then switched it back to kutum + bhegs and equipped x2 normal red coral earrings (about + 6 accuracy) and my hit rate went up and was slightly better than +15 vangertz (around 20%+ miss rate), although the damage was noticeably bigger. So yea from what I said before you'll need red coral earring definitely if you want to be on par with Vangertz off hand accuracy.

I think it's still good to have a TRI vangertz around if you want to go against evasion builds. I tried Vangertz+Bhegs and still missed, but this was about 10% or less of the time. You'll need full accessory build (red coral earrings + bhegs + vangertz + tree belt + other accuracy) to counter full evasion builds. I believe that's the only way to achieve close to 100% hit rate against them, atlhough I'd consider having a TRI kzarka would be of big help too since I only had TRI Liverto.

That's exactly what I was talking about. Very nice test, thank you for that. And it confirms my thoughts, you will need full accuracy build to hit reliable, kutum just has too low accuracy, as sad as it makes me, I also own one.

However, what's strange is that you got the same or even better hitrate with 2x normal red coral earrings as with vangertz. But I thought vangertz should provide around 20 accuracy at all.

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Posted

That's exactly what I was talking about. Very nice test, thank you for that. And it confirms my thoughts, you will need full accuracy build to hit reliable, kutum just has too low accuracy, as sad as it makes me, I also own one.

However, what's strange is that you got the same or even better hitrate with 2x normal red coral earrings as with vangertz. But I thought vangertz should provide around 20 accuracy at all.

Seems like accuracy from accessories might be different from acc coming from weapon and off hand.

Also, we don't know how the level difference works with accuracy.

OP should have tried with different amounts of accuracy provided by different sources.

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Posted

That's exactly what I was talking about. Very nice test, thank you for that. And it confirms my thoughts, you will need full accuracy build to hit reliable, kutum just has too low accuracy, as sad as it makes me, I also own one.

However, what's strange is that you got the same or even better hitrate with 2x normal red coral earrings as with vangertz. But I thought vangertz should provide around 20 accuracy at all.

Cheers.

I only did small sample size of 25 hits, so RNG might have been a factor on the x2 normal red coral earrings case, but it did feel it was more or less around the same accuracy level of +15 vangertz. I'm still a bit skeptical about Kutum giving no accuracy at all. I feel that is should give around 5+ accuracy. My test would have shown that Bhegs (10) accuracy + Kutum (5 accuracy) + red corals (6 accuracy) brings it to vangertz level of accuracy (around 20). We'd need to do larger sample sizes to confirm.  I'd still rather use Kutum over vangertz for this case because the real trade of is damage, and I prefer hitting harder :).

 I think ideal set up at least one TRI red corral earring and bheg's to utilise Kutum and to be on par with vangertz accuracy.

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Posted

That's exactly what I was talking about. Very nice test, thank you for that. And it confirms my thoughts, you will need full accuracy build to hit reliable, kutum just has too low accuracy, as sad as it makes me, I also own one.

However, what's strange is that you got the same or even better hitrate with 2x normal red coral earrings as with vangertz. But I thought vangertz should provide around 20 accuracy at all.

theres just so much shit thats ambiguous relating to accuracy that its a shit show. im just hoping that tri bhegs tet zarka and a tri kutum would be enough accuracy to not need red corals. cause im at the point where im working on earrings next and i'd really like to know if it'd be better for me to get duo/tri witches or tri red corals haha.

probably going to get my kutum to tri take off my mesto that i bought ages ago and do some accuracy tests on friends and people who are willing to test with me who i know have tons of evasion so i can see just how reliable a hitrate would be before i pump too much money into accessories. 

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Posted

dident say you did. but if you are stating you want more reliable damage but are going for an item with less accuracy that contradicts your statement.

As discussed in this thread; proven by tests; and going from personal experience, Kutum has higher damage output when it hits, so if you have the accessories needed to go with Kutum it's going to be more reliable damage than Vangertz. So no, I didn't contradict my own statement

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Posted

Not my class but i fight the same guy as Ruuy and i've also been watching some KR streams of boss geared PvP, most of the streamers i watch have 1 TRI or TET red coral earing in their setup and run the AP or higher hitting offhands

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Posted

i don't get this.

The problem here is that kutum is reducing accuracy !

 

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Posted (edited)

but idk if it will be enough when facing full evasion stacked enemies.

See my update ;)

Seems like accuracy from accessories might be different from acc coming from weapon and off hand.

Also, we don't know how the level difference works with accuracy.

OP should have tried with different amounts of accuracy provided by different sources.

I didn't care about that, and there is no reason to believe accuracy given from accessories would be any different than accuracy given from armour/weapons. Tests are time consuming and boring.

Ruuy's performed only 25 hits, which are most definitely not enough to draw any kind of conclusion. nor indication honestly I had streaks of 3 hits out of 3 for 5-6 times in a row with axion, then several 0,1,0,1,... 

Edited by insert_brain

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Posted

At this point, getting to lvl 59+ will help quite a lot because of added accuracy on skills.

 

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