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Kutum accuracy test - UPDATED Oct. 12th: kutum vs axion vs vangertz

86 posts in this topic

Posted

At this point, getting to lvl 59+ will help quite a lot because of added accuracy on skills.

 

The only skill that benefits from that is grave digging and in lower measure solar flare. All our stuns do not provide bonus accuracy, so building accuracy is a must for us.

At this point though, I'm seriously torn if Kutum is indeed better than Nouver for us. ~5 accuracy is fairly negligible imo considering you can easily get it with red corals with minimal ap loss. So the real question is if 10% ignore resist and 20DP are worth ~14AP and 10% all resist, which I am not so sure.

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Posted

The only skill that benefits from that is grave digging and in lower measure solar flare. All our stuns do not provide bonus accuracy, so building accuracy is a must for us.

At this point though, I'm seriously torn if Kutum is indeed better than Nouver for us. ~5 accuracy is fairly negligible imo considering you can easily get it with red corals with minimal ap loss. So the real question is if 10% ignore resist and 20DP are worth ~14AP and 10% all resist, which I am not so sure.

We need ignore resistance for our grabs, and with the balance rework, DP might start to be worth it. I'll get a Nouver as well, but I expect to always be using Kutum in PvP

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Posted (edited)

OP updated 2nd test for anyone thats wants to look, it seems that what I was starting to think is correct in that kutum only gives 3-5 accuracy (if it gave more it would probably be considered too good)

 

This means at minimum you would probably need bhegs, guild acc buff, and a tree spirit belt or such to use the kutum effectively and still have a good hit-rate, however, the kutum does supply alot of AP and good DP, and it does have 2 gem slots and ignore all res.

Edited by Catclaw
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Posted

Thanks for your tests dude, I appreciate it much.

Let me make a few assumptions at this point, including the data of your testings.
I consider this sorc enemy as my baseline evasion enemy, sure it's possible to get even more accuracy but only few people will run more and tbh we can't be prepared for every single situation that comes up in pvp.
Another important point is the rough value of 5% hitrate ~ 5% accuracy, shown at Test2 axion vs kutum. Kutum is supposed to give approx 5 accuracy and the rough interaction 5% acc ~ 5% hitrate is also shown in other tests, so I'll take this as a rough indication for myself.
The warrior lacks in bheg gloves in these tests, so I will add its rough value of 10 accuracy at DUO/TRI lvls to my hypothesis.
Axion/nouver (same accuracy) are hitting 58% of their hits, which is below poor. Following my assumptions above, bheg's will boost this rate approx 10%, same goes with 2 DUO red coral earrings, which seem to be a must at current state of testings. So we add 20% on top of the 58% and get to the value of 78% hitrate without accuracy offhand.
Kutum with its approx 5 accuracy will raise this accuracy to 83% total, which is ok I guess. But still, going with a accuracy offhand will provide you a rough 20% increase in accuracy, going from 78% to nearly 100%, let's assume its 95% in case of little diminishing returns.
Again, this is all just pure hypothesis but you get the point. An accuracy offhand will provide such a great boost in hitrate its insane.

To summarize the numbers I got with my assumptions:
Full accuracy build without acc offhand: ~78%
Full accuracy build with kutum offhand: ~83%
Full accuracy build with acc offhand: ~95%

Now the questions arises how much AP do you want to sacrifice to get more accuracy? There is no question boss offhands will do more damage overall but this is only the case IF you hit your enemy, hence you need enough accuracy. And how is the ignore resist stat on kutum even working? I believe you have to hit your enemy first at all, which is calculated by your accuracy and after that the %value of ignore resist tries to win the next gambling game to stun your enemy or not. Correct me if I am wrong at this point.

Any thoughts? Same opinions? Hate? Give it to me, appreciate every kind of feedback!
 

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Posted (edited)

See my update ;)

I didn't care about that, and there is no reason to believe accuracy given from accessories would be any different than accuracy given from armour/weapons. Tests are time consuming and boring.

Ruuy's performed only 25 hits, which are most definitely not enough to draw any kind of conclusion. nor indication honestly I had streaks of 3 hits out of 3 for 5-6 times in a row with axion, then several 0,1,0,1,... 

There actually is reason to suspect it, sadly i forgot to link the source

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1H4M9vXw3xV0NwLO1xvqDMu-KVRY9CWLY5dccHt0oDOQ/mobilebasic

Edited by Aunatar
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Posted (edited)

Thanks for your tests dude, I appreciate it much.

Let me make a few assumptions at this point, including the data of your testings.
I consider this sorc enemy as my baseline evasion enemy, sure it's possible to get even more accuracy but only few people will run more and tbh we can't be prepared for every single situation that comes up in pvp.
Another important point is the rough value of 5% hitrate ~ 5% accuracy, shown at Test2 axion vs kutum. Kutum is supposed to give approx 5 accuracy and the rough interaction 5% acc ~ 5% hitrate is also shown in other tests, so I'll take this as a rough indication for myself.
The warrior lacks in bheg gloves in these tests, so I will add its rough value of 10 accuracy at DUO/TRI lvls to my hypothesis.
Axion/nouver (same accuracy) are hitting 58% of their hits, which is below poor. Following my assumptions above, bheg's will boost this rate approx 10%, same goes with 2 DUO red coral earrings, which seem to be a must at current state of testings. So we add 20% on top of the 58% and get to the value of 78% hitrate without accuracy offhand.
Kutum with its approx 5 accuracy will raise this accuracy to 83% total, which is ok I guess. But still, going with a accuracy offhand will provide you a rough 20% increase in accuracy, going from 78% to nearly 100%, let's assume its 95% in case of little diminishing returns.
Again, this is all just pure hypothesis but you get the point. An accuracy offhand will provide such a great boost in hitrate its insane.

To summarize the numbers I got with my assumptions:
Full accuracy build without acc offhand: ~78%
Full accuracy build with kutum offhand: ~83%
Full accuracy build with acc offhand: ~95%

Now the questions arises how much AP do you want to sacrifice to get more accuracy? There is no question boss offhands will do more damage overall but this is only the case IF you hit your enemy, hence you need enough accuracy. And how is the ignore resist stat on kutum even working? I believe you have to hit your enemy first at all, which is calculated by your accuracy and after that the %value of ignore resist tries to win the next gambling game to stun your enemy or not. Correct me if I am wrong at this point.

Any thoughts? Same opinions? Hate? Give it to me, appreciate every kind of feedback!
 

Worth considering is also the fact that, when fighting, that sorcs has almost always an additional 25 evasion buff always up from skills and addons. Since the test was stationary, this is not captured in the results. If we are to accept 1 evasion = -0.75% hitrate, that is an additional -18.75% chance to hit, pushing your numbers to:

Full accuracy build without acc offhand: ~60%
Full accuracy build with kutum offhand: ~65%
Full accuracy build with acc offhand: ~77%

There actually is reason to suspect it, sadly i forgot to link the source

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1H4M9vXw3xV0NwLO1xvqDMu-KVRY9CWLY5dccHt0oDOQ/mobilebasic

Cheers, I had missed that small bit of info.

Edited by insert_brain
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Posted

You're forgetting that our main damage skills at Lvl59 all provide +25% accuracy, so we're effectively capped at 80% accuracy on gear to make our hit rate 100%, which is easily achieved

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Posted (edited)

Not sure against who you are fighting, yea i mean you guys saying that kutum deals more damage. Sure it does but on semi geared squishy classes. 

Im spending too much time in arena and i can say that once someone geared stands in front of you, Kutum fails. Full TRI + Muskans + 10 evasion in helmet + passive evasion and Vangertz is clear  winner.

Sorry but 0.63 vs 0.8 hitrate is pretty damn big difference. And one important fact. I have 2x5ap in Kutum, that means even more AP difference and almost same damage output (due to lack of accuracy) between both shields.

I have 19acc on top of Vangertz so my hitrate is high = more CCs = more grabs. Evasion works as indirect CC resistance so that 10% ignore doesnt help at all. I see no difference using 20% or 30%. Thats just my experience. Kutum deals much more dmg in PvE but not in PvP against geared players. My DPS with accuracy build is very consistent and i have hard times using Kutum. Its too "RNG" for my taste.

 

Edited by Chors
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Posted

You're forgetting that our main damage skills at Lvl59 all provide +25% accuracy, so we're effectively capped at 80% accuracy on gear to make our hit rate 100%, which is easily achieved

I am not, I am lvl59. It's only 2 skills, one of which requires charging or suffers a 1/3 damage reduction. You won't get anywhere without all the other skills that you need to setup your combos, most of which don't provide increased accuracy, unless you want to be one of those "warriors" that just spam slashing the dead -> grave digging -> run away on cd. And you're at 77% hitrate with accuracy offhand against a sorc that is actually fighting.

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Posted

Well to me it's pretty clear that Red Coral earrings are the BiS :D Trading 6 AP for 12 accuracy at TRI, please :3

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Posted

Not sure against who you are fighting, yea i mean you guys saying that kutum deals more damage. Sure it does but on semi geared squishy classes. 

Im spending too much time in arena and i can say that once someone geared stands in front of you, Kutum fails. Full TRI + Muskans + 10 evasion in helmet + passive evasion and Vangertz is clear  winner.

Sorry but 0.63 vs 0.8 hitrate is pretty damn big difference. And one important fact. I have 2x5ap in Kutum, that means even more AP difference and almost same damage output (due to lack of accuracy) between both shields.

I have 19acc on top of Vangertz so my hitrate is high = more CCs = more grabs. Evasion works as indirect CC resistance so that 10% ignore doesnt help at all. I see no difference using 20% or 30%. Thats just my experience. Kutum deals much more dmg in PvE but not in PvP against geared players. My DPS with accuracy build is very consistent and i have hard times using Kutum. Its too "RNG" for my taste.

 

That's basically what I've tried to explain here. It seems you can't have enough accuracy for pvp, meaning not taking kutum and by god no nouver, accuracy offhand all the way.

I am not, I am lvl59. It's only 2 skills, one of which requires charging or suffers a 1/3 damage reduction. You won't get anywhere without all the other skills that you need to setup your combos, most of which don't provide increased accuracy, unless you want to be one of those "warriors" that just spam slashing the dead -> grave digging -> run away on cd. And you're at 77% hitrate with accuracy offhand against a sorc that is actually fighting.

I'm flattered seeing you work with my hypothetical numbers. ^_^

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Posted

I am not, I am lvl59. It's only 2 skills, one of which requires charging or suffers a 1/3 damage reduction. You won't get anywhere without all the other skills that you need to setup your combos, most of which don't provide increased accuracy, unless you want to be one of those "warriors" that just spam slashing the dead -> grave digging -> run away on cd. And you're at 77% hitrate with accuracy offhand against a sorc that is actually fighting.

I don't really know if accuracy has an impact on CCs tbh, but that's where Kutum's ignore resistance shines, as the rest of our skills are basically just CC skills so we can hit harder with our big damage skills

@Chors and @Skulldemon

Well, my personal experience against highly geared lvl59+ enemies and conversations with highly geared lvl59+ warriors, shows that Kutum is the better choice, so you shouldn't be stating that you need Vangertz for high damage output in PvP as a fact

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Posted (edited)

There has been said that even with tri kutum bheg and liverto/kzarka you still need acc to hit 100%. 

For me this is rather confusing as my personal testing against a kuno with evasion focus (tri muskan as well) resulted me in hitting 100%. Now, this might just be me because I am at lvl 59 and have a tet liverto. I have nothing else that contributes to acc. But even without kutum I seemed to do just fine. I noticed no difference in my killing speed or missing what so ever. Might just be me that I didn't focus on that.

this doesn't mean that I disregard the testing done, but maybe a tet makes a good difference?

Edited by Nihillian

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Posted

I don't really know if accuracy has an impact on CCs tbh, but that's where Kutum's ignore resistance shines, as the rest of our skills are basically just CC skills so we can hit harder with our big damage skills

@Chors and @Skulldemon

Well, my personal experience against highly geared lvl59+ enemies and conversations with highly geared lvl59+ warriors, shows that Kutum is the better choice, so you shouldn't be stating that you need Vangertz for high damage output in PvP as a fact

I'm sorry, my fault here - lost in generalisation. Anyway, nothing is "needed" for pvp, one could go without any accuracy too. It should better be: Use accuracy offhand if you want to have more than "just" that assumed 60% hitrate. I prefer more than that but it's just a matter of personal preference.

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Posted

You realize I have no problems with hit rate without Vangertz right?

what class? In pleb warrior mode? could be... without awakening... wanna see that u hit constant... on same gear i do 20% more dmg with a vangerz equipt... and the sad part is boys... even a tet zarka nor tri bheg are able to balance it out. 

Vangerz seems still supirior. Yes i know it has a 2end gem slot... and yes i know that it has no -resis... anyway... for me kutum is currently like "red nose armor" it might be ok.. but in the end its (semi)shit.

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Posted

what class? In pleb warrior mode? could be... without awakening... wanna see that u hit constant... on same gear i do 20% more dmg with a vangerz equipt... and the sad part is boys... even a tet zarka nor tri bheg are able to balance it out. 

Vangerz seems still supirior. Yes i know it has a 2end gem slot... and yes i know that it has no -resis... anyway... for me kutum is currently like "red nose armor" it might be ok.. but in the end its (semi)shit.

Yeah, well, that's just, like, your opinion, man

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Posted

And im the only one which thinks that they did something with accuracy with warrior`s awakening ? Since awakenings were released i feel like accuracy is needed much more than before. Maybe to balance out oneshot fest in KR where people with 250ap were deleting others ? If they did something, it was logical choice becuase AP was too far superior comparing to accuracy but dunno, we are not getting much info from Kakao.

For average player which is not visiting forums or doing own tests, there is an easy formula : All you need is bheg and Nouver.

So i like the idea of some kind of balance between acc and ap but im not sure if that already happened. 

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Posted

Yeah, well, that's just, like, your opinion, man

no it is a fact! I pointed out that i dont know exactly how much +acc u get on warrior awakened skills... without awakening i KNOW you wont deal dmg vs a geared target... AND i know that u would deal MORE dmg vs a geared target with a vangerz equipt. 

 

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Posted

I would like to add something. I think we didn't consider the accuracy from the alchemy stone and the fact that eventually they might fix the serendia accuracy buff. That is an extra 14 accuracy.

Most people that will keep playing this game will end up with a TET boss armor which is 283 DP. And also most people will end up with TET weapons and TRI jewels which will be at 240-250 AP. So my point is that with buffs, crystals etc etc, even with a 70% accuracy people will oneshot after one good CC.

For the current EU/NA time DP and accuracy are still important but still i would like to see what a 205 AP warrior can tell us about accuracy when he 1vs1 people.

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Posted

We need ignore resistance for our grabs, and with the balance rework, DP might start to be worth it. I'll get a Nouver as well, but I expect to always be using Kutum in PvP

if its purely regarding grabs. you can get the base 30% ignore grab res from the passive +20 from mainhand gems and thats already a 50% ignore grapple resis. throw in one singular anti grapple resis gem in a nouver and you sacrifice 5 ap from the gem to gain 14 ap from nouver , while also getting the 10% all res.

so if the argument regarding the ignore res is purely for the case of grapples then nouver is by far the better shield. assuming that kutum is intended to only grant ~5 accuracy.

personally the way i see it in an ap to accuracy trade off on boss gear , you should be giving up rough 1 ap for 1 to 1.5 accuracy. so if a nouver has 14 more ap than a kutum. then a nouver should have roughly 7-10 accuracy on it. (again all this is under the current state of the game where dp is practically meaningless and purely for show on the kutum)

take into account that dp is meaningful and it has 20 ap on a nouver at tri (keep in mind that on every enchant past tri nouver gets 3 ap where kutum gets i believe its 1 ap and 2 dp) then it would be a even trade off. but untill they make 1 dp as meaningfull as 1 ap past a certain threshold a kutum will NEED atleast 7-10 accuracy at tri to be meaningful, atleast ImO.

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Posted

I see ignore resistance as being more valuable when you have high AP and can deal loads of damage when your target is cc'ed. It works for me, so I'll keep using Kutum :ph34r:

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Posted

Thanks for posting and testing. What gear do you believe you will need to alleviate your accuracy issues with kutum shield? +15-16 more accuracy just to reach 80% hit rate against that sorc is quite a bit. I'm not up on the accuracy game , are bhegs considered being worth +10 accuracy or so?

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Posted

Thanks for posting and testing. What gear do you believe you will need to alleviate your accuracy issues with kutum shield? +15-16 more accuracy just to reach 80% hit rate against that sorc is quite a bit. I'm not up on the accuracy game , are bhegs considered being worth +10 accuracy or so?

In this test I didn't have bhegs, red coral earrings nor tree spirit belt equipped. Bhegs should be about 10 accuracy at DUO/TRI as far as we know. If you add to that two DUO/TRI red corals and a DUO tree spirit belt, you should reach a comfortable amount of accuracy that should work against 95% of the playerbase imo. 

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Posted

Thank you @insert_brain for the tests I appreciate it.

As someone mentioned earlier, once you face a decently geared player you can't take "ifs" and "buts" into account, you need the accuracy to hit. I'm already on my 6th TET attempt on the vangertz shield, I hope but doubt nouver will help. 

Some players may switch to red coral earrings and get an Axion/khutum offhand, but I won't bother with that, I'll get a TET vangertz and upgrade the accessories for the AP instead. Too bad for us, what can I say I kind of wished to have 200+ AP like the other classes. Again, it seems like most of us have underestimated accuracy for warrior post awakening.

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Posted

A quick accuracy test done with @Chors (also posted here)

TEST1

Setting:

Level 58 warrior (P1) hitting level 59 warrior's block (P2) using armour break skill (3 hits, no bonus accuracy).

P1 accuracy: bmc precision x2, 3-piece taritas, DUO red coral earring x2, 5 acc. guild buff, DUO liverto. Total accuracy for P1: 24 accuracy + DUO liverto's accuracy

P2 gear: TRI grunil set, no evasion stacked. Kutum offhand.

 

Doesn't enhancing gear provide hidden evasion buff increase? A Ranger did the test awhile back and stated enhancing your gear even to +15 increases hidden evasion buffs, so P2 gear even at TRI Grunil would have some evasion, this would also explain why u have such a mix results in ur first testing of hit rate as it's all over the place with evasion factored in.

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