• Announcements

    • IMPORTANT - REACH US IN THE NEW FORUM   05/04/2017

      Ladies and gentlemen ATTENTION please:
      It's time to move into a new house!
        As previously announced, from now on IT WON'T BE POSSIBLE TO CREATE THREADS OR REPLY in the old forums. From now on the old forums will be readable only. If you need to move/copy/migrate any post/material from here, feel free to contact the staff in the new home. We’ll be waiting for you in the NEW Forums!

      https://community.blackdesertonline.com/index.php

      *New features and amazing tools are waiting for you, even more is yet to come in the future.. just like world exploration in BDO leads to new possibilities.
      So don't be afraid about changes, click the link above and follow us!
      Enjoy and see you on the other side!  
    • WICHTIG: Das Forum ist umgezogen!   05/04/2017

      Damen und Herren, wir bitten um Eure Aufmerksamkeit, es ist an der Zeit umzuziehen!
        Wie wir bereits angekündigt hatten, ist es ab sofort nicht mehr möglich, neue Diskussionen in diesem Forum zu starten. Um Euch Zeit zu geben, laufende Diskussionen abzuschließen, könnt Ihr noch für zwei Wochen in offenen Diskussionen antworten. Danach geht dieses Forum hier in den Ruhestand und das NEUE FORUM übernimmt vollständig.
      Das Forum hier bleibt allerdings erhalten und lesbar.   Neue und verbesserte Funktionen warten auf Euch im neuen Forum und wir arbeiten bereits an weiteren Erweiterungen.
      Wir sehen uns auf der anderen Seite!

      https://community.blackdesertonline.com/index.php Update:
      Wie angekündigt könen ab sofort in diesem Forum auch keine neuen Beiträge mehr veröffentlicht werden.
    • IMPORTANT: Le nouveau forum   05/04/2017

      Aventurières, aventuriers, votre attention s'il vous plaît, il est grand temps de déménager!
      Comme nous vous l'avons déjà annoncé précédemment, il n'est désormais plus possible de créer de nouveau sujet ni de répondre aux anciens sur ce bon vieux forum.
      Venez visiter le nouveau forum!
      https://community.blackdesertonline.com
      De nouvelles fonctionnalités ainsi que de nouveaux outils vous attendent dès à présent et d'autres arriveront prochainement! N'ayez pas peur du changement et rejoignez-nous! Amusez-vous bien et a bientôt dans notre nouveau chez nous

Level 10 node problem.

91 posts in this topic

Posted (edited)

First of all i know that this thing has been discussed multiple times but i still want to bring my experience and know yours if possible. 

Now here is the thing: i have been farming basilisk since 4 weeks and in the meanwhile invest energy in the node whenever i could... i noticed that in X hours (minimum 2) i could get around the same X items, rng or not i was able to get from 3 to 5 pilafe scrolls, minimum 3 rocaba armors and a piece of basilisk belt (2 if extremely lucky), this every day for these 4 weeks until 5 days ago.
So about 5 days ago i finally reached the level 10 on the node.... and in these 5 days i noticed an huge decrease in the drop rate of rare items, considering the same time of farming of 2 hours. I passed from 3/5 pilafe to 1 maximum 2, from the minimum 3 rocaba now the max i can get is 1, 2 if i'm really lucky. I even tried to get S knowledge on mobs but nothing changed... 
Since i had the doubt i asked to a friend of mine to farm there for the same amount of time with his level 1 node, and he got exactly what i could get before bringing the node at level 10. Heck he even gets the same 2 to 5 quest items x mob like me. 

Obviously i'm not counting basilisk pieces/assault crystal or the belt itself as a drop for this kind of test since the drop rate is so low that you can't really tell if there is a problem with the node or if i'm just unlucky. 

Now i'm seriously tempted to reset the node... the only thing stopping me from doing so is the huge amount of energy i have invested to get level 10.

Why the heck investing such an huge amount of energy on leveling the node is punishing me? I mean i could be even ok by getting the same amount of drops but even lower?? I don't really know if the last patch bugged something since you can't really prove anything without real numbers on how much increase you get at level 10 nodes, but really there is something wrong here.

I swear that until i see changes to nodes investment (aka making numbers clear, fixing something or even increasing the drop rate for each level) i'm never gonna waste energy on that thing anymore.

Also as i said earlier, i would love if you guys could share your experience with a level 10 node... Thank you.

Edit 1: Resetted the node after reading about the others and giving up in general for seeing my drops getting worse every day. After the reset during the first session of 2 hours i got 6 pilafe + 2 basilisk pieces and my drops went back to normal even in the following days. At this point i believe it's not a coincidence anymore, believe whatever you want but i'm not gonna invest a single point until i see a fix or some kind of improvement that shows actual numbers. 

Edit 2: Please do support this post http://forum.blackdesertonline.com/index.php?/topic/117294-node-leveling-please-have-this-looked-into/ to get more visibility regarding the problem! It's far more detailed than mine :).

Edited by LordBrasca
4 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

RNG...

Seriously go look up RNG, PROBABILITIES, and Odds/ Chances and the difference between them all and the relationship between them all.

This happens in real life too.

You go to a casino play slots, which btw have a 95% =/- PAYOUT RATE, sit at the same slot machine for 10 hours dumping in $2k not winning jack shit.

Literally after you get up, a RANDOM person sits down, puts in a quarter and wins the $100k Jackpot.

Obviously RNG is rigged right?

Do you even FATHOM what kind of sample size you would need to make any of the statements you are making?!

We are talking about 100k hours and billions of items, than you can come in here and make STATEMENTS.

Otherwise you are literally observing RNG at work....

You're Welcome!

Also, ya go ahead and reset it, waste that 4-5k plus energy lol to do jack crap.. also you might want to remove that tinfoil hat before it become permenant.

May you also tell us what asking people does? So they give you their b.s. opinion based on nothing and you will listen because you know them?

Devs have said leveling nodes raises your chance at RARE loot,  even giving ogres ring as an example. Now if you have access to their code and can PROVE in REAL TIME that drop rates are messed up or something.. HOW WILL YOU EVER PROVE ANYTHING IS GOING ON?

Look at the kamisilve elixir, only reason we as players can say something is wrong is because of the energy regen  associated with it only.

There is literally no way for us to prove drop rates are messed up or anything. We don't have access to the relevant data.

Btw, looking at the results is just that, you do realize mathematically the results don't affect the drop rate.. right? But not vice versa.. seems like a lot of people get this back wards.

Results do not affect the formula, but the formula does affect the results.

Got that, not the other way around!

Edited by Pavo
4 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

Pretty much what Pavo said, its just RNG. I have never lvled a node since start and I have been allways competitive in pvp (top ranked in RBF and the most kills on nodewars). My advice? Waste your energy on more profitable things

Edited by Fumaito
2 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

I get rng, but as I consistently watch guildies and friends get pila fe pages and green drops on a very regular basis without invested nodes or S knowledge, while I went to the trouble of getting most everything in Valencia as S and multiple nodes at max or near it and I walk out of grind sessions with nothing but xp to show for it, I have to wonder.

 

And to top it off, this has been observed by countless players at nodes all over the map in the same circumstances. How  many people with that much invested into their farm areas experiencing that same thing have to report such findings before someone with the power to do so takes an honest look at what mechanics may be acting out of order?

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

I get rng, but as I consistently watch guildies and friends get pila fe pages and green drops on a very regular basis without invested nodes or S knowledge, while I went to the trouble of getting most everything in Valencia as S and multiple nodes at max or near it and I walk out of grind sessions with nothing but xp to show for it, I have to wonder.

 

And to top it off, this has been observed by countless players at nodes all over the map in the same circumstances. How  many people with that much invested into their farm areas experiencing that same thing have to report such findings before someone with the power to do so takes an honest look at what mechanics may be acting out of order?

At one point in Human history almost EVERYONE thought the world was FLAT..

How did that work out for them?!

I mean it was COMMON KNOWLEDGE THAT THE WORLD WAS FLAT!

Ya keep listening to people and let me know how that works out for you!

2 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

I get rng, but as I consistently watch guildies and friends get pila fe pages and green drops on a very regular basis without invested nodes or S knowledge, while I went to the trouble of getting most everything in Valencia as S and multiple nodes at max or near it and I walk out of grind sessions with nothing but xp to show for it, I have to wonder.

 

And to top it off, this has been observed by countless players at nodes all over the map in the same circumstances. How  many people with that much invested into their farm areas experiencing that same thing have to report such findings before someone with the power to do so takes an honest look at what mechanics may be acting out of order?

Exactly this. I get rng when we are talking about extremely rare drop like basilisk belt/crescent guardian ring/ogre ring or heck even basilisk pieces but... even green drops? I mean i invested into a level 10 node, the minimum i expect is to go even, not so much lower. 

The drops drastically changed the moment i upgraded the node into level 10 5 days ago, before that for these 4 weeks everything was "normal". Green drops speaking ofc.

If things are like this, at the moment investing energy on nodes is absolutely worthless, same goes for S knowledge.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Exactly this. I get rng when we are talking about extremely rare drop like basilisk belt/crescent guardian ring/ogre ring or heck even basilisk pieces but... even green drops? I mean i invested into a level 10 node, the minimum i expect is to go even, not so much lower. 

The drops drastically changed the moment i upgraded the node into level 10 5 days ago, before that for these 4 weeks everything was "normal". Green drops speaking ofc.

If things are like this, at the moment investing energy on nodes is absolutely worthless, same goes for S knowledge.

Okay, and when I got my Mansha node up to level 10 I started getting tons of scroll drops, etc...

See for every person who posts on this forum complaining about RNG, there are literally 10x or more players just playing the game.

You do realize a very small % of the player base visits, let alone posts on gaming forums.. right?

Sorry to burst your bubble.

Also, do yourself a favor and go look up and read up about Gamblers Fallacy and such. It will enlighten you.

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Exactly this. I get rng when we are talking about extremely rare drop like basilisk belt/crescent guardian ring/ogre ring or heck even basilisk pieces but... even green drops? I mean i invested into a level 10 node, the minimum i expect is to go even, not so much lower. 

The drops drastically changed the moment i upgraded the node into level 10 5 days ago, before that for these 4 weeks everything was "normal". Green drops speaking ofc.

If things are like this, at the moment investing energy on nodes is absolutely worthless, same goes for S knowledge.

I think you may have to go for 4 weeks at level 10 to compare to your 4 weeks below level 10 before you can see a trend. 5 days is really not a huge sample in this game.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

I think the problem is that S rank knowledge and node investment changes the drop chance so little that the dominant behavior is the RNG.

 

After seeing the developers give us a 100% Red Nose box last week, I also think it isn't outside the realm of possibility that node investment and knowledge ranks do nothing at all.. because a developer forgot to implement the RNG of it correctly.

6 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

It's rng, and nothing but rng.

They don't tell you how much it increases by, and it could be like an additive .01% drop increase per level. Something like that is even still worth investing into if you don't have other uses for your energy.

I obviously don't have the exact number and that was made up, but I think people take this way too seriously.

As someone previously said, you'd probably have to grind so much more than 5 days to notice any trend, or a trend at all. I even disagree with the 4 weeks he suggested. I don't think you could have viable test results (which are even still subject to rng) unless you no-life farmed a node for a good 3 months, playing 8 hours or more a day. I'm not kidding.

 

RNG is rng. You will get shit on sometimes. Even for long periods of time. Doesn't mean that it's necessarily bugged. When people don't get drops or fail enhancements, they come to the forums and say that their account or the drop is bugged. But come on, that's pretty silly.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Okay, and when I got my Mansha node up to level 10 I started getting tons of scroll drops, etc...

See for every person who posts on this forum complaining about RNG, there are literally 10x or more players just playing the game.

You do realize a very small % of the player base visits, let alone posts on gaming forums.. right?

Sorry to burst your bubble.

Also, do yourself a favor and go look up and read up about Gamblers Fallacy and such. It will enlighten you.

I do perfectly know what gambler fallancy is, and that's also the reason why i asked to share the experience regarding the level 10 nodes. I have always dealt with rng, but honestly after such an huge amount of energy seeing things getting worse is a lot discouraging, together with the fact that you don't know exactly how much increase you are getting in terms of %. At this point i may as well leave the node at level 1 and call it RNG whenever it goes good or bad, with the difference that i can invest 11000 of energy somewhere else. As much you can't prove that rng is "rigged" same applies for proving that it's fine, and honestly after seeing the huge amount of bugs in this patch i wouldn't be surprised, considering they increased the density of the basilisk and changed the secondary spots they could also have mistakenly changed something regarding how the drop works (even if highly unlikely, just look at what happened with boss gear box :-) )

Also i'm not trying to prove anything or change the game, what i'm looking for mainly is others experience and get my conclusion about investing the same amount on others node or not.

I think you may have to go for 4 weeks at level 10 to compare to your 4 weeks below level 10 before you can see a trend. 5 days is really not a huge sample in this game.

Yeah probably i will try this since resetting the node after investing so much energy does not really seem a good idea.

I think the problem is that S rank knowledge and node investment changes the drop chance so little that the dominant behavior is the RNG.

 

After seeing the developers give us a 100% Red Nose box last week, I also think it isn't outside the realm of possibility that node investment and knowledge ranks do nothing at all.. because a developer forgot to implement the RNG of it correctly.

S rank we still don't know if increases the drop rate or not, official wiki don't say nothing regarding what rank knowledge affects nor the game says anything about it (please correct me if i'm wrong, i couldn't really find anything reliable regarding the matter). 

Regarding the node level it would be a lot easier if we could see the numbers regarding how much % increase we get for drops. Tbh i would happy even with just 1% for level 10 and i would stop to "blame" the rng. The thing that bother me most is investing so much in an hidden stat and not knowing exactly how much you are going to get.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

 

As someone previously said, you'd probably have to grind so much more than 5 days to notice any trend, or a trend at all. I even disagree with the 4 weeks he suggested. I don't think you could have viable test results (which are even still subject to rng) unless you no-life farmed a node for a good 3 months, playing 8 hours or more a day. I'm not kidding.

 

The reason why I suggested 4 weeks was because that's the size of their "pre level 10" sample. So having two samples of the same size would at least give you a better comparison than 4 weeks vs. 5 days.

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

One thing though, as much as you guys say it's RNG, are we  really sure Lvl10 node  works properly? Is it really RNG or a bug in the algorithm, or  an intended diminishing return?

2 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Eventually saying "its RNG" is going to wear out.  When enough people keep pointing out a "coincidence" is happening to them at the same time it becomes a trend.

2 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Eventually saying "its RNG" is going to wear out.  When enough people keep pointing out a "coincidence" is happening to them at the same time it becomes a trend.

True, but you need actual data, and lots of it.  Otherwise it becomes another "is enchanting easier" thread where someone had a "lucky" streak and couldn't make failstacks. Meanwhile, someone else that same weekend blew all their savings trying to actually level their gear and kept failing.

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Eventually saying "its RNG" is going to wear out.  When enough people keep pointing out a "coincidence" is happening to them at the same time it becomes a trend.

Not getting drops is not a coincidence. Failing enhancements is not a coincidence.  This game has tons of players, and not every one of them gets all good drops. Not every one of them will succeed all their enhancements.

This is what the entire game is built upon, it's not a series of coincidences.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

One thing though, as much as you guys say it's RNG, are we  really sure Lvl10 node  works properly? Is it really RNG or a bug in the algorithm, or  an intended diminishing return?

And how would you do this?

You guys are trying to say that Ford engines suck, but you guys know nothimg about engines or don't know anything about ford engines specifically.

I will give these threads some grain of salt when one of you guys comes in here with the data mined formula and show us how it's wrong after you have analyzed it.

Right now you guys are the living definition of RNG especially since all you are doing is using your own experience and of course the best evidence in the history of mankind.. "my friend/ guildy told me this"

I want to see logs, spreadsheets, etc..

Come on, make something up for crying out loud LOL

You guys farming for this supposedly "2 hours a day" is also b.s.

I want to see videos of you guys doing this consistently for 2-3 months +, than we can talk.

In school you guys would be laughed out of class if you tried to write any sort of paper with these "facts" or observations based on nothing.

Any sort of professional setting would literally kick you out if you tried to come in with these statements based on fantasy.

At least make up a spreadsheet that shows the last "2 months of you farming X mob and showing us details of your results"...

Too f'n lazy to even do that. There was a poster here who, in regards to ogre rings, actually posted a spread sheet with over 1k ogre kills.

At least he tried, what's your guy's excuse? Laziness? Facts getting in the way of your assumptions? 

Ya, thought so.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

I have had the same problem, Grinded for multiple weeks, S Rank Knowledge, Lvl 10 node, AND Kamasiville blessing (Not bugged Version) and i literally have ONLY gotten Basilisk Piece: Ring and Only Two Basilisk Piece: Pin, This games RNG is -----ed to the max, i watch people with lvl 5 nodes get 3 whole belts within 3-4 day...its stupid.

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Ford engines do suck

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

At one point in Human history almost EVERYONE thought the world was FLAT..

How did that work out for them?!

I mean it was COMMON KNOWLEDGE THAT THE WORLD WAS FLAT!

Ya keep listening to people and let me know how that works out for you!

I wish I had more likes to give for the day, this statement deserves it. I'll try to remember to come back tmr to give it one.

Edited by BurningBern

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

And how would you do this?

You guys are trying to say that Ford engines suck, but you guys know nothimg about engines or don't know anything about ford engines specifically.

I will give these threads some grain of salt when one of you guys comes in here with the data mined formula and show us how it's wrong after you have analyzed it.

Right now you guys are the living definition of RNG especially since all you are doing is using your own experience and of course the best evidence in the history of mankind.. "my friend/ guildy told me this"

I want to see logs, spreadsheets, etc..

Come on, make something up for crying out loud LOL

You guys farming for this supposedly "2 hours a day" is also b.s.

I want to see videos of you guys doing this consistently for 2-3 months +, than we can talk.

In school you guys would be laughed out of class if you tried to write any sort of paper with these "facts" or observations based on nothing.

Any sort of professional setting would literally kick you out if you tried to come in with these statements based on fantasy.

At least make up a spreadsheet that shows the last "2 months of you farming X mob and showing us details of your results"...

Too f'n lazy to even do that. There was a poster here who, in regards to ogre rings, actually posted a spread sheet with over 1k ogre kills.

At least he tried, what's your guy's excuse? Laziness? Facts getting in the way of your assumptions? 

Ya, thought so.

And i honestly would love to see you watching those videos of 2-3 months. Minute by minute, like you are claiming XD.

I'm not seeking for you approvation tbh, you are free to believe it or not since it's the internet, i'm just asking if someone else with a level 10 node has the same problem or not, also i don't really get how some people here keeps comparing a game to real life or a professional career. 
Also by your logic how do you know that the spreadsheet are not fake? Did you see every single screen shot where he killed the ogre? Or you just decided to believe him just because it's a spreadsheet? Everyone here can make a spreadsheet and write down whatever they want (and it happened) just as much everyone can make a post like me. It's your own choice to believe it or not. 

Still what i'm looking for in this topic is for players who got the level 10 node and got a similiar experience or the opposite, i'm not trying to change the game or everything since i know that Pearl Abyss won't listen even for minimal but huge QoL changes. 

Btw if everyone followed your logic the boss gear box we received was perfectly fine, because no one here should never and ever complain about RNG :-).

I have had the same problem, Grinded for multiple weeks, S Rank Knowledge, Lvl 10 node, AND Kamasiville blessing (Not bugged Version) and i literally have ONLY gotten Basilisk Piece: Ring and Only Two Basilisk Piece: Pin, This games RNG is -----ed to the max, i watch people with lvl 5 nodes get 3 whole belts within 3-4 day...its stupid.

I'm not even complaining about rings or belt tbh since the % may be so low that node level probably doesn't affect it that much, i'm mostly complaining about drops like rocaba or pilafe which have a way higher % to drop and thus it's easier to detect if there is an increase or decrease of drop. In my case i noticed it was a decrease in these last 5 days but probably like another guy said i should at least give another few weeks of try before deciding if it's the case of resetting the node or not. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

And i honestly would love to see you watching those videos of 2-3 months. Minute by minute, like you are claiming XD.

I'm not seeking for you approvation tbh, you are free to believe it or not since it's the internet, i'm just asking if someone else with a level 10 node has the same problem or not, also i don't really get how some people here keeps comparing a game to real life or a professional career. 
Also by your logic how do you know that the spreadsheet are not fake? Did you see every single screen shot where he killed the ogre? Or you just decided to believe him just because it's a spreadsheet? Everyone here can make a spreadsheet and write down whatever they want (and it happened) just as much everyone can make a post like me. It's your own choice to believe it or not. 

Still what i'm looking for in this topic is for players who got the level 10 node and got a similiar experience or the opposite, i'm not trying to change the game or everything since i know that Pearl Abyss won't listen even for minimal but huge QoL changes. 

Btw if everyone followed your logic the boss gear box we received was perfectly fine, because no one here should never and ever complain about RNG :-).

I'm not even complaining about rings or belt tbh since the % may be so low that node level probably doesn't affect it that much, i'm mostly complaining about drops like rocaba or pilafe which have a way higher % to drop and thus it's easier to detect if there is an increase or decrease of drop. In my case i noticed it was a decrease in these last 5 days but probably like another guy said i should at least give another few weeks of try before deciding if it's the case of resetting the node or not. 

You missed my point. I said at least he tried and spent time creating a spread sheet to back up his point. It's why I said, if you are truly serious about your data, you would record your data 24/7 to have the proof.  

Assuming I watch it or not is irrelevant if you are truly trying to make statements based on facts.

You guys aren't even doing that.

Some things are easy to see they aren't working as intended.. energy regen on elixir being broken, Tier 5 horses breeding foals that technically aren't supposed to be possible, etc...

None of you guys are asking PA to look into things, at best you guys are making assertions based on sketchy ass observations.

None of you guys are data mining anything or analyzing anything you are data mining. 

But do carry on, wouldn't want facts getting in the way of conspiracy theories.

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

I have noticed this as well, worse drops with a level 10 node and I have heard others say this also.  But they could never mess up the programming to make this happen.  Oh wait, except for Red Nose boxes.  Oh and serendia specials.  Oh ya, I almost forgot, the first bonus xp event where fishing was 300%.  Oh and investing in worker nodes being worthless.   Oh and the preorder t5 horses not breeding like a tier 5. Oh wait, and kamasylve blessing not giving correct bonus. 

My point being that I keep hearing people say rng is rng but that's only if its coded properly. 

3 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

I too felt a drop when I took crescents from 9 to 10.

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

I have noticed this as well, worse drops with a level 10 node and I have heard others say this also.  But they could never mess up the programming to make this happen.  Oh wait, except for Red Nose boxes.  Oh and serendia specials.  Oh ya, I almost forgot, the first bonus xp event where fishing was 300%.  Oh and investing in worker nodes being worthless.   Oh and the preorder t5 horses not breeding like a tier 5. Oh wait, and kamasylve blessing not giving correct bonus. 

My point being that I keep hearing people say rng is rng but that's only if its coded properly. 

My guess is that the issues you listed make up something like .01% of the coding in this game. Probably not even close to that to be honest. That's a large overestimate.

The other 99.99% seems coded correctly. Just about everything minus a few select issues work, yes?

So you're banking on level 10 nodes being part of that .01% (or less)?

To be fair, neither of us know what's actually coded into this game. But logic would dictate that it's RNG.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites