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Should Kakao allow player to player trade/exchange of items into the guilds?


Should Kakao allow player to player trade/exchange of items into the guilds?   177 votes

  1. 1. Should Kakao allow player to player trade/exchange of items into the guilds?

    • Yes
      84
    • No
      93

Please sign in or register to vote in this poll.

94 posts in this topic

Posted

In most MMO's every transaction trading, or otherwise, is logged in the players account data.  Although sometimes, there are gaps in the logs, and sometimes it depends on how adept the support staff is at reading those logs, or the tools that are given by the developers to read them.

Thanks for this information. 

Tools, logs and the developers, administrators and also the support staff should work well together to detect any suspicious, illegal activities.

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Posted

Thanks for this information. 

Tools, logs and the developers, administrators and also the support staff should work well together to detect any suspicious, illegal activities.

It is not always easy to track down shady characters, even with the best of tools. But here is an example of how some things are noticed.

Generally speaking the product manager reviews certain trends such as current In-Game Silver levels. He/She watches the ups and downs of the economy and looks for blips in the trend. If he discovers a large sharp increase in silver within the game, then its a possibility that some gold-botting or exploiting is occurring, and he may then investigate which accounts have the most accumulated silver, to determine if the sharp increase was legitimate, say someone had a week vacation and decided to spend it grinding and selling wares, or if it was illegitimate from say a dozen gold-farmers botting out mobs.

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Posted

It is not always easy to track down shady characters, even with the best of tools. But here is an example of how some things are noticed.

Generally speaking the product manager reviews certain trends such as current In-Game Silver levels. He/She watches the ups and downs of the economy and looks for blips in the trend. If he discovers a large sharp increase in silver within the game, then its a possibility that some gold-botting or exploiting is occurring, and he may then investigate which accounts have the most accumulated silver, to determine if the sharp increase was legitimate, say someone had a week vacation and decided to spend it grinding and selling wares, or if it was illegitimate from say a dozen gold-farmers botting out mobs.

This is a very good example.

Thanks Andaro.

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Posted

The title of the thread is literally "Should Kakao allow player to player trade/exchange of items into the guilds?", so telling everyone who says "no" that they're somehow suppressing discussion of the topic is absurd.

As for the OP, my own view on this topic is that unrestricted trading between guild members is basically an invitation for 3rd party P2W vendors to create guilds that exist solely to transfer high value items to cash buyers. The restriction of "must be in the guild for a week" isn't nearly enough deterrent to prevent that practice, IMO.

 

that would be absurd yes, thats why I'm telling everyone who just comes in here to jot down stock rejections after reading the title that their "contribution" has already been made. Note how my post says people who want to discuss the topic are fine, I never specified whether they had to agree with trade or not. Unless you honestly think "git gud" or accusations of being a gold seller are discussion, I'd just prefer to have a thread where people talk to each other with reasons and explanations rather than a shout match over who can drown the thread in one word posts the most. Wouldn't you?

I get it, you are being ignorant because I don't agree with your point. Basically the same as 90% of the community. Hence why you call yourself GenericUser.

I don't see why I'm ignorant for pointing out why your stance on goldselling leads to something as silly as wanting the game to close.

so you disagree that there is ANY gold selling going on right now? Absolutely none? Because your stance is that gold selling must be completely wiped from the game, and I'm telling you that the only way that could happen is if the game literally closes down.

either you honestly believe the game has no goldsellers, or you believe there is a way to stop all gold selling without closing the game, or you want the game to close.

I don't want goldsellers in the game, no decent player does, but to think it's possible to get rid of ALL gold selling is just not feasible. You have to be willing to accept that as long as there is a modicum of freedom in this game, there will be cheating. And the trade debate can generally be summed up as to where you draw that line. Some people think player trade is an acceptable sacrifice to decrease gold selling, others like myself feel it isn't, and that allowing free trade will increase gold selling by an acceptable amount in exchange for more player freedom. But no matter where you draw that line, there WILL be cheaters, no matter how few, so if your goal is no goldsellers, then the only thing you should be advocating is BDO closing.

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Posted (edited)

It is not always easy to track down shady characters, even with the best of tools. But here is an example of how some things are noticed.

Generally speaking the product manager reviews certain trends such as current In-Game Silver levels. He/She watches the ups and downs of the economy and looks for blips in the trend. If he discovers a large sharp increase in silver within the game, then its a possibility that some gold-botting or exploiting is occurring, and he may then investigate which accounts have the most accumulated silver, to determine if the sharp increase was legitimate, say someone had a week vacation and decided to spend it grinding and selling wares, or if it was illegitimate from say a dozen gold-farmers botting out mobs.

Kakao do not have such statistics, and the tools to count. They have a tool for the prices and the deals in the AH probably. And some general statistic tools. As for the gold-boting, it is a simple boting - hard to work in BDO. But most gold sellers pay to real players to collect gold or items. In BDO they pay them to play or to develop full accounts.

Edited by Ikcen

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Posted

All this talk of gold sellers.. reminds me of something.. oh right this:

http://www.bikinipanda.com

Wow would you look at that, gold sellers already exist in the game, they log onto your account, do their thing and hey presto, you have gold.

Now can you idiots who think "Player trading will allow gold sellers to do buisness" just gtfo?

They already EXIST. They are already ARE doing buisness.

Player trading, especially with cooldowns, with guild requirements, with marketplace value trading so whatever item you are selling, the person HAS to use the highest marketplace value or an item of equal value (give or take 5-10%).. hell put an NPC down in each major city and he takes 50% of the profit.. this would only be a benefit.

For once you'd actually be able to sell your guild mate that fishing boat without having to camp the marketplace for 15 minutes only for it to be bought by someone else.

With a 50% tax on the item, people will still list on the marketplace for a higher profit, people will still pre-order for hard to get items. The only people using the player to player trading are those who want to sell directly to a guild mate.

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Posted (edited)

All this talk of gold sellers.. reminds me of something.. oh right this:

http://www.bikinipanda.com

Wow would you look at that, gold sellers already exist in the game, they log onto your account, do their thing and hey presto, you have gold.

Now can you idiots who think "Player trading will allow gold sellers to do buisness" just gtfo?

They already EXIST. They are already ARE doing buisness.

Player trading, especially with cooldowns, with guild requirements, with marketplace value trading so whatever item you are selling, the person HAS to use the highest marketplace value or an item of equal value (give or take 5-10%).. hell put an NPC down in each major city and he takes 50% of the profit.. this would only be a benefit.

For once you'd actually be able to sell your guild mate that fishing boat without having to camp the marketplace for 15 minutes only for it to be bought by someone else.

With a 50% tax on the item, people will still list on the marketplace for a higher profit, people will still pre-order for hard to get items. The only people using the player to player trading are those who want to sell directly to a guild mate.

Yeah but they are severely limited as to what they can do in the game without trading. Obviously you won't say that because you have some kind of agenda  don't you. How about you tell the people about the other fabulous things that might happen when you use gold seller services. Getting accounts hacked, stolen, and lets not mention wonderful credit card fraud. You are honestly going sit there and tell me I am suppose trust these gold sellers not too hack my accounts or steal also not mention use my credit card information.

Edited by Dalenos

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Posted

that would be absurd yes, thats why I'm telling everyone who just comes in here to jot down stock rejections after reading the title that their "contribution" has already been made. Note how my post says people who want to discuss the topic are fine, I never specified whether they had to agree with trade or not. Unless you honestly think "git gud" or accusations of being a gold seller are discussion, I'd just prefer to have a thread where people talk to each other with reasons and explanations rather than a shout match over who can drown the thread in one word posts the most. Wouldn't you?

Of course I'd prefer discussion to shouting. However, the words "yes" and "no" are not shouts, they're votes. This thread is a poll, where the two options are "yes" and "no". Not everyone who has an opinion wants to write an essay about it, and people who want to attach their name to their vote have every right to do so. That's a valid contribution whether you want it to happen or not.

And for the record, "accusations of being a gold seller" are unfair but the point underlying the accusation is absolutely valid--that third party P2W vendors are highly motivated to lobby for changes to the game in ways that promote their ability to sell their wares--which this would in fact do. Are they the only ones who would benefit? No. Is everyone who lobbies for the change a gold seller? No. But it remains the case that the people with the most to gain from a change like this are the people planning to make real cash from it.

Now can you idiots who think "Player trading will allow gold sellers to do buisness" just gtfo?

I think player trading will make it much easier for gold sellers to do business, which means there will be far more gold selling. Can I stay, or should I gtfo?

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Posted (edited)

so selling CS costumes for 100M a week without introducing any extra silver flow into the game is P2W, but getting as many afk fishers you want  24/7 who would add BILLIONS of silver flow every week and can preorder anything and give it to you through personal guild (you and your bots), wrecking the imperial trading for all "legit" players would be OK for half of the people here? couack!

 

Edited by magret
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Posted

i asked first. how would it be exploited? (not picking a fight here, seriously asking a legitimate question)(although you did flip it around instead just answering the question)

The statement was that guilds would exploit the feature.....I am asking, How. Tell me how.

and I posed a legitimate question back to you which you refuse to answer. I explained it already why do you refuse to read?? I add my AFK fishing second account to my guild, my afk fisher has made 500 million in fishing i can gift to my main account now, it has also received a plethora of log in rewards and event items as well I can trade them to myself now. My friend just started to play I can trade him a full set of tri gear for nothing (yet you cry about p2w???he didn't even have to pay he was gifted to win), gold sellers can create a guild add people to it who buy items then leave later on, 1 week, 3 weeks, 1 month it don't matter).

Now your turn you provide me all the legitimate reasons for needing trading that maintain fairness and cant be accomplished with the marketplace right now anyways, every case I think of is to circumvent the fairness of the current economy. Trust me the devil inside me wants to be able to trade, I have a second account with almost 1 billion of assets on it and 2 friends who quit playing that would let me liquidate their accounts and they both have over 1 billion worth of stuff....at least I am honest to say that wouldn't be fair and is far worse than any type of "p2w" you cry babies try to fabricate about this game.

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Posted

What is difrence in guild or outside.. there is no problem to invite ppl only for trade and kick them out from guild. If they allow trade in guild there will be a one big chaos nothing more... and prob many many goldsellers will back to the game :D

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Posted

It is not always easy to track down shady characters, even with the best of tools. But here is an example of how some things are noticed.

Generally speaking the product manager reviews certain trends such as current In-Game Silver levels. He/She watches the ups and downs of the economy and looks for blips in the trend. If he discovers a large sharp increase in silver within the game, then its a possibility that some gold-botting or exploiting is occurring, and he may then investigate which accounts have the most accumulated silver, to determine if the sharp increase was legitimate, say someone had a week vacation and decided to spend it grinding and selling wares, or if it was illegitimate from say a dozen gold-farmers botting out mobs.

actually its near impossible because in the end to ban an account these game companies want/need 100% positive proof of cheating, who is to say you are not some trading guru that amassed your money etc...that is why literally every mmo in existence has a huge bot problem and massive gold seller issue, they really just can;t track them down well or easily because most of the time all the gold seller bots are automated and they just spew out a new one for anything you ban, then if you ban 1 player in error?? your message board is spammed with "unfair my account banned for no reason" posts.

 

BDO is easily the best game out imho because they literally have almost no gold seller no bots everywhere, and in the end I realized the only think I used trading for anyways was to get myself free stuff I didnt earn, and that the market place or an auction house accomplishes anything trading can do and it keeps it fair for all.

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Posted

What is difrence in guild or outside.. there is no problem to invite ppl only for trade and kick them out from guild. If they allow trade in guild there will be a one big chaos nothing more... and prob many many goldsellers will back to the game :D

I agree: simply partying or guilding is easily exploitable for gold seller.

But what about an "amity system" between players? I made a proposal here: http://forum.blackdesertonline.com/index.php?/topic/116599-pls-allow-player-trading/#comment-1603168

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Posted

Yeah but they are severely limited as to what they can do in the game without trading. Obviously you won't say that because you have some kind of agenda  don't you. How about you tell the people about the other fabulous things that might happen when you use gold seller services. Getting accounts hacked, stolen, and lets not mention wonderful credit card fraud. You are honestly going sit there and tell me I am suppose trust these gold sellers not too hack my accounts or steal also not mention use my credit card information.

My agenda is I'd actually like to buy an item from my friends or trade items. I have Muskans Boots, my guild mate has a giath helm. I already have muskans, they already have a giath, is it not a fair idea to be able to allow us to swap these items so we can complete our boss armour sets? As for trusting the gold sellers, if you read their page it says to change your password to a temporary one. I'm not saying this means they should be trusted, but it's whatever.

Secondly, how does trading between guild mates only (say you need to be in the same guild for over a week), in order to sell the item directly to a player you lose 50% of the profit. (Eg. selling an item for 1bil you only get 500mil as apposed to selling it on the marketplace you only lose 35%). How is this a hidden agenda? All it is, is wanting to be able to buy something off another player directly, if they're trying to profit they're missing out on a hell of a lot of money as apposed to selling it on the marketplace.

I'm not sure how that system would help any gold seller, I mean they would have to go out themselves and get the high value items to sell directly to a player.. I mean that stuff is rare as it is. Even if they had 100 accounts they'd be lucky to get 1 boss armour from bundles a month, there is no profit in from them, and the player buying it still pays full market place price. 

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Posted

so selling CS costumes for 100M a week without introducing any extra silver flow into the game is P2W, but getting as many afk fishers you want  24/7 who would add BILLIONS of silver flow every week and can preorder anything and give it to you through personal guild (you and your bots), wrecking the imperial trading for all "legit" players would be OK for half of the people here? couack!

Yeah, in general I agree. The game is so screwed that any kind of multiplayer activity cannot be implemented without a major reform. AFK playing is the real problem, also the solo PvE - your guild literally does not matter, so you can leave, join another and keep playing the game without any negative impact, as BDO is actually singleplayer. So yes, I agree, the trade cannot be implemented into the game with the current conditions, and also any kind of open world multiplayer activity.

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Posted

Really?? Ok let's flip the roles here. You explain to me why you need to trade between players exactly what purpose are you hoping to achieve that isnt already accomplished with the market place as far as economy goes. Look we all know the only reason people want to be able to trade and that is to hook each other up  (aka give your friend some phat loot, yet you whine about p2w its comical how you kids create whatever diversion or argument and how it changes to suits your needs or wants for that day) or abuse some mechanic, or push money from your afk fisher second account that has been collecting event and log in rewards etc...

So please detail how you need trading to accomplish something that doesnt go against the entire premise of "fairness".

Well, what I would like to do is, if I'm out playing with guildies and we are each in our own class, and I drop a weapon/off-hand/armor that someone else is using, I can give it to them so they can use it to improve their gear. And they can do the same for me.  It's what we are used to doing when we play together.

But the single players, how will they get stuff? 

The same way they do it now. Grind it or buy it from the Marketplace. Games that have full player trading still have enough players selling to third parties.

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Posted

Really?? Ok let's flip the roles here. You explain to me why you need to trade between players exactly what purpose are you hoping to achieve that isnt already accomplished with the market place as far as economy goes. Look we all know the only reason people want to be able to trade and that is to hook each other up  (aka give your friend some phat loot, yet you whine about p2w its comical how you kids create whatever diversion or argument and how it changes to suits your needs or wants for that day) or abuse some mechanic, or push money from your afk fisher second account that has been collecting event and log in rewards etc...

So please detail how you need trading to accomplish something that doesnt go against the entire premise of "fairness".

first thing why I could need such a feature:

simply: Guilds from very medieval definitions are groups oriented to make business in the world - for example - crafter guilds were staffed with alot of crafters that were crafting things together to sell it more profitable than a solo crafter

and in many cases it was almost never single crafter making full production from the materials purchased into final products

usually it was more like Joey grabs materials and assembly X, Tom grab X and some other stuff and makes it into Y John grabs Y and produce Z out of it where Z is final product.

how such example could possibly apply into the world of BDO?

lets say a guild wants to craft a boat to sell:

Joey chop down trees, and mine ores, Tom grabs raw materials from Joey and refine them into materials used in construction of a boat, John, being only one with good workers and invested contrib points into region with decent shipyards and assembly the boat itself, boat is being sold into market profits fairly shared between all that were involved.

Such cooperation between players in the guild for more time-cost efficient manufacturing of items should be possible and encouraged imo in the game, sure this example actually would shift economy balance, but if someone asks me this kind of shift would be benefitial for healthiness of the game.

 

such guild cooperative crafting could be af course implemented without opening trading between the guild mates but it would require decent investment of resources into mechanics and interfaces for it.

 

other example would be yesterdays gathering guild mission run in my guild

only one of participants had decent access to good tools

if he could share those with guildmates we would be doing much better in that mission, but such option does not exist - hence I've earlier mentioned heavilly restricted trade with only items that would make sense being allowed

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Posted

 

Well, what I would like to do is, if I'm out playing with guildies and we are each in our own class, and I drop a weapon/off-hand/armor that someone else is using, I can give it to them so they can use it to improve their gear. And they can do the same for me.  It's what we are used to doing when we play together.

The same way they do it now. Grind it or buy it from the Marketplace. Games that have full player trading still have enough players selling to third parties.

this is achieved by the marketplace too. And with your first point, the marketplace will be fairly empty for 2 to work.
At best we could hope for a remote marketplace so you dont have to post the stuff you loot in town... wait....

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Posted

 

this is achieved by the marketplace too. And with your first point, the marketplace will be fairly empty for 2 to work.At best we could hope for a remote marketplace so you dont have to post the stuff you loot in town... wait....

Sorry, but I play ESO, which has full P2P trading. The guild stores are stacked to the gills with stuff. 

And no, my first point will not be achieved via the marketplace as many times off-hands are quite popular and constantly sold out. So if I were to list it, it would be just as likely to be sold to a pre-order or sniped by someone else than to be bought by the person I want it to have.  Case in point, a guildie has tried to sell a pet to another 5 times already and each time it got sniped away from them.

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Posted

Should Kakao allow player to player trade/exchange of items into the guilds, with longer time penalties for joining and leaving a guild - so the player could not leave a guild a week after joined one, and join a new one, a week after left one.

No. But they should turn guild trading back on.🙄😔😉

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Posted (edited)

geez, you're not gonna praise ESO trading system. it's probably the worst thing i've seen in 12 years of MMOs. And I've tested a lot of them.

Edit : for the offhands, other people are faming right now and putting them automatically on the MP under "special deals" tab.
Re-edit : for the pet he'll get one from another person eventually if he keeps trying, there is a RNG bid phase that ensure this. Yes it can be long but at least it's the same for everyone, not just the same 5-10 top guild members of each guild.

Edited by magret

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Posted

Personally I feel like, if you make items bind on Equip and unsellable once they are traded would resolve the gold farmer issue. The only issue I could see come from that is players paying real money to buy items from goldsellers. which would not have any effect on the in-game economy. And that's what we are trying to protect right? lol

Can I have player trading now pls

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Posted

geez, you're not gonna praise ESO trading system. it's probably the worst thing i've seen in 12 years of MMOs. And I've tested a lot of them.

Edit : for the offhands, other people are faming right now and putting them automatically on the MP under "special deals" tab.
Re-edit : for the pet he'll get one from another person eventually if he keeps trying, there is a RNG bid phase that ensure this. Yes it can be long but at least it's the same for everyone, not just the same 5-10 top guild members of each guild.

Love or hate ESO's trading system, the fact is that the game has full P2P trading and it's not overrun with bots and gold sellers, and people don't make full gold gear for new players just because they can. (I personally do enjoy the trading system, though the UI can use major improvements I overcome with addons, and I find the BDO marketplace super boring, but I understand that opinions on the matter differ)

People may be listing them, but if I pick something up that one of my friends needs, I should be able to give it to them and vice-versa. Particularly if we are grouped when it dropped.

First, that particular pet doesn't get listed often, and second, guildie B is spending their money because she wants guildie A to have that pet, not because she wants to gift pets to strangers. They should be able to make that happen without RNG getting in their way.

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Posted

Best gear is Bind on Pickup in ESO. You want that here? because it would be the only option to keep from abuses.
 

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Posted

Best gear is Bind on Pickup in ESO. You want that here? because it would be the only option to keep from abuses.
 

Yet you can now trade BoP gear within your group for up to 4 hours, to the only realy BoP gear left are Maelstrom weapons. 

Here instead the best gear just costs an arm, a leg and the blood of your firstborn. It's just as unobtainable. And gear here makes a much bigger difference than in ESO.

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