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loot Loot Testing


28 posts in this topic

Posted

I want to get into some loot testing and documenting. Was there a thread I might have missed that we already had a discussion of looting documentation etc? The link is a sheet where I did some looting documentation. I was looking to a lot more of this sort of thing. 

How do we like this format and Structure? I wanted something easy to follow once you understood the subject and methods. Or better yet is there some mega sheet I need to plug this data into that works better out there? 

 

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/17TDVmoBa1tEzbehNdzz1ytAVQ8jZOpK8ztznopf5j00/edit?usp=sharing

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Posted

wow.. if thats true im resetting my node levels..

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Posted (edited)

wow.. if thats true im resetting my node levels..

This is a Party Leader Test, the clearing character has Node level 5 and changed nothing. Only the party leader changes here. 

 

Edited by GreenBeanDemon

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Posted

I always doubt the the party leader node level effects anything. It does not make any sense.

Either the loot is determined by the player who kills the mob or an average node level is calculated.

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Posted

i would redo this with another mob that drops more than 1 of turn-in drop.  as node level might effect that...

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Posted

i would redo this with another mob that drops more than 1 of turn-in drop.  as node level might effect that...

I plan to do some more with 6-10 level nodes. Once I raise it to 6 I will do another solid bandana per kill set. I am interested if the trend ends with higher levels on the clearer. 

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Posted (edited)

Hold on, so your node level is always level 5? 

what's the point of the leaders node level? To see if it somehow overrides yours or adds to it?

Now do the same thing with a level 10 node! That's what I would be more interested in, to be honest.  Same exact test, but raise your node level to 10.

I really don't understand the significance of leaders node level. What in this game leads you to think other peoples node levels or knowledge affects yours? Never mentioned by the devs or gm's.. like ever.

Honestly, does it seem logical or intuitive for that? Not saying these guys always do logical or intuitive things, but this is a "core" feature/ mechanic of the game.

This kind of stuff needs to be data mined, or you need to talk to the devs in charge of OUR version... shit I don't/ barely trust anything Kakao says as they don't have any access outside of what PA GIVES them.  

I was SHOCKED to find out they actually can correct localisation stuff.  Shocked that PA gave them that access.  It could be that PA made KAKAO sign a super hard core NDA regards to the code and data  mining, etc...

OP, though, nice test and if you can/ are willing please do the same exact test with a node level 10... pretty please!

Edited by Pavo

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Posted (edited)

Hold on, so your node level is always level 5? 

what's the point of the leaders node level? To see if it somehow overrides yours or adds to it?

Now do the same thing with a level 10 node! That's what I would be more interested in, to be honest.  Same exact test, but raise your node level to 10.

I really don't understand the significance of leaders node level. What in this game leads you to think other peoples node levels or knowledge affects yours? Never mentioned by the devs or gm's.. like ever.

Honestly, does it seem logical or intuitive for that? Not saying these guys always do logical or intuitive things, but this is a "core" feature/ mechanic of the game.

This kind of stuff needs to be data mined, or you need to talk to the devs in charge of OUR version... shit I don't/ barely trust anything Kakao says as they don't have any access outside of what PA GIVES them.  

I was SHOCKED to find out they actually can correct localisation stuff.  Shocked that PA gave them that access.  It could be that PA made KAKAO sign a super hard core NDA regards to the code and data  mining, etc...

OP, though, nice test and if you can/ are willing please do the same exact test with a node level 10... pretty please!

You have not run into the people that insist you change leader to someone with a level 10 node before I would guess? I am going to do the same test, with the same node, the same knowledge, the same location and the same underwear on a node 6 once I get that "no event" set done. Then I will be doing a level 7 etc. 

What I want to do now is, decide if this documentation is the way to go. 

 

Edited by GreenBeanDemon
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Posted

Just as a note of comment, some games do have an affect on exp rates, and loot based on a party leaders level or party average.

We do know that exp rates are affected by player levels in party...for BDO...anything is speculation but collecting data on the subject is an awesome idea....even though its "total RNG" it never hurts to hypothesize and test....otherwise you can never really know.

 

Other factors for looting to consider, though speculative....your characters "investment" in "the world" (not monetary) but Con level? Invested CON? Knowledge book? 

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Posted (edited)

You have not run into the people that insist you change leader to someone with a level 10 node before I would guess? I am going to do the same test, with the same node, the same knowledge, the same location and the same underwear on a node 6 once I get that "no event" set done. Then I will be doing a level 7 etc. 

What I want to do now is, decide if this documentation is the way to go. 

 

Ya that's an awesome idea if your up for it.  I will be very interested to see what happens to your looting with node level.

If I'm reading your docs right, looks like Leaders node level had no noticeable affect on your drops. I can't believe the range, looks like all your drops are fitting withing a range.. with of course your peaks and valleys.

Of course this is small sample size, but so far what I see is RNG is RNG lol

What do you guys think about his data and OP what have you extrapolated from it. I hope I'm reading it right.

I can't wait to see your results when you get to node level 10!

I also think this is a decent way to do it. I mean you aren't exactly tracking kills, but you are always using the same amount of bandanas.  I think that could be relevant. I mean we are going after the actual drops not necessarily the drop rates or %.

 I say if you are up for it, keep it going!

Edited by Pavo

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Posted (edited)

Good work but i have some concerns.

First of all Pavo has a point... i never really paid attention to it but does every pirate mob always drop exactly 1 bandana? Because otherwise, if the bandana drop chance increased at the same rate as other drops, your test would never show the effect of node levels ^^.

Assuming that bandana drops are always the same, it will be interesting to see if other normal drops are affected by node level. For the rare drops your data might be still too little to notice any difference. At best you could figure out if there is really some bug that makes higher node levels drop much LESS rare loot (some people claim this is true).

Edited by Alexiel
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Posted (edited)

What do you guys think about his data and OP what have you extrapolated from it. I hope I'm reading it right.

It appears to be RNG being RNG to me also, as you said. 

 

I also think this is a decent way to do it. I mean you aren't exactly tracking kills, but you are always using the same amount of bandanas.  I think that could be relevant. I mean we are going after the actual drops not necessarily the drop rates or %.

Assuming that bandana drops are always the same, it will be interesting to see if other normal drops are affected by node level. 

^ On tab three of the sheet I go into why I am counting bandannas. The range I found is 95 for each 100 kills + or - 3. This is counting kills with a range of error( no way I'm counting manually 10k pirates! D:). I will be retesting this trend at all the node levels as I go. Hoping to get to some node level 6 stuff today or tomorrow just more crowded and such. 

 

Other factors for looting to consider, though speculative....your characters "investment" in "the world" (not monetary) but Con level? Invested CON? Knowledge book? 

This stuff seems interesting and would take a looong time to test. But who knows what we will look into once I get done with this current set of things. Thanks for the ideas, even though they both interest and scare me! 

Edited by GreenBeanDemon

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Posted

This stuff seems interesting and would take a looong time to test. But who knows what we will look into once I get done with this current set of things. Thanks for the ideas, even though they both interest and scare me! 

The last dev posting I remember about this was that node investment does very little other then modify your chance at some items. It was vague and could be interpreted in a couple ways. The problem is what subset of items does it effect....Good luck.

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Posted

Awesome job. I can't wait to see the other node levels. Keep up the great work on this!

Hmm, the only thing I can think of to add to the sheet or such would be a summary of the differences between the totals for the node levels / runs. For me, I found myself scrolling up and down to look at the different numbers between the node tests. Everyone else that has looked at these sheets / commented so far, what are your thoughts on this? I am just thinking of a quick thing to look at the differences, but if you to dig more into the data you look at each run which is shown now. 

All in all though, great data so far. As others have stated, the "leader" node level doesn't seem to effect it much. 

 

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Posted

Awesome job. I can't wait to see the other node levels. Keep up the great work on this!

Hmm, the only thing I can think of to add to the sheet or such would be a summary of the differences between the totals for the node levels / runs. For me, I found myself scrolling up and down to look at the different numbers between the node tests. Everyone else that has looked at these sheets / commented so far, what are your thoughts on this? I am just thinking of a quick thing to look at the differences, but if you to dig more into the data you look at each run which is shown now. 

All in all though, great data so far. As others have stated, the "leader" node level doesn't seem to effect it much. 

 

It's also pretty amazing, for such a "small" sample size how "consistent" his results were or at least within a given range.

I can say, for his exact sample size, Leaders node did not affect drops at all, his drops seemed to be within a range, with a few peaks and valleys, but averaging out in the end.

This is what I say for his data, not trying to extrapolate it to the game and saying you will get the same results as him.

Love him for doing this!

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Posted

No event set is in! and I made a really ugly summary page and I am totally blank on how to make it pretty at the moment. But its there! 

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Posted

Added the Node level 6 10k set. 

After hearing they buffed pirates in Korea? I will be moving on to level 7 tomorrow. Even though a few sets would be better I will have to redo this stuff once it changes. There was an interesting spike in weapon stones I can see at 6. Wonder if it will follow me to node 7. 

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Posted

Cheers for stepping up and starting to figure this stuff out!

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Posted

sounds like ure having fun ^^

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Posted

Cheers for stepping up and starting to figure this stuff out!

sounds like ure having fun ^^

Thanks, having fun for sure!

After I saw this \/

https://www.reddit.com/r/blackdesertonline/comments/59im41/node_level_test_at_pirates/

I am going to skip the tests 7-9 and continue when I get to 10. This will allow me to do some other stuff while I build the node up. Then do level 10 sets and add in GM blessings and swapping to S knowledge on some of the other mobs I do not have to see if we can see the difference. Good to see he found the bandannas being within a predictable range as well. 

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Posted

Test is invalid unless it's only solo farming. Anyways, to let everyone know. THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE BETWEEN LVL 0 NODE and LVL 10 NODE AT PIRATES. This has been tested and confirmed so far. We are on test 3/5 right now.  Tests done by bigandshiny.

There will be a more various test on Crescents soon. We Big will keep everyone updated.

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Posted (edited)

Test is invalid unless it's only solo farming. Anyways, to let everyone know. THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE BETWEEN LVL 0 NODE and LVL 10 NODE AT PIRATES. This has been tested and confirmed so far. We are on test 3/5 right now.  Tests done by bigandshiny.

There will be a more various test on Crescents soon. We Big will keep everyone updated.

Can you show the data proving what you are saying?

-edit, just read greenbeans link. going over it now. 

So looking over Bigs data, which is good, it lines up with a lot of data Greenbean is getting as well. 

You (Jarvs) stated that this is invalid because its not solo. That is one of the points on this data to show if party variations have any aspect of change in data. So looking over the data so far, the party has no effect. You can see this by following the drop trend that is on Greenbeans and comparing it to what Big got on 45k. It is right on par (with little variance due to rng of course). But in turn, this shows that solo or party makes no difference, the loot drop shows to be relatively close. 

I am curious to see what crescents shows. How soon do you think that data will be up?

Edited by Oric

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Posted

Test is invalid unless it's only solo farming. Anyways, to let everyone know. THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE BETWEEN LVL 0 NODE and LVL 10 NODE AT PIRATES. This has been tested and confirmed so far. We are on test 3/5 right now.  Tests done by bigandshiny.

There will be a more various test on Crescents soon. We Big will keep everyone updated.

Then I get to concur! sweet, also you can look at the data collection method and documentation in the sheet. Let me know what you think once you read it all for sure, This first testing phase is more getting my documentation in a clear reproducible way. 

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Posted

I find this test faulty in that it could just be that node level is increasing the chance for bandanas to drop (you provide no baseline test to prove this is false). So that there's simply less chances for the rings/earrings to drop during the number of kills it takes to get 1k bandanas. As such nothing can really be believed from this set of data.

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Posted

Do pirates only ever drop one bandana? Did all runs take you the same time to get to 1000?

That is very interesting research, thank you for undertaking it.

Do pirates only ever drop one bandana? Did all runs take you the same time to get to 1000?

That is very interesting research, thank you for undertaking it.

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