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Node leveling! Please have this looked into!

249 posts in this topic

Posted

Following is purely anecdotal conjecture. Don't bother reading if you are only interested in hard data.

 

So I did the 3rd Pickle something quest tonight (kill 500 Rhutums from black spirit)  Part way through, I started doing the level IV on site kill quest from the node manager also which required me to do 250 kills.  Basically the two quests over lapped while I was part way through the first but I don't remember when the exact count was I started the overlap.  At the most, I've made 750 kills, which is likely 100 or so less than that since they over lapped.  And I got 19 green pieces of equipment dropped in 750 kills or less.  The node wasn't even connected.  That just seemed way too many drops for an unconnected node.  I remember trying to farm Yuria bow and bronze dagger drops there a month after release and never even remotely had this many items drop there when the node was connected, much less getting them in 40 mins or so.

Another weird thing happened this weekend as it's the first time I set foot in Calpheon for months. After doing the first Pickle quest with catfish, I went to Mansha to try and farm candy.  And boom, first ogre I kill, it dropped an ogre ring.  You hear this all the time from people, I farmed for X days and nothing dropped, my friend/guildy shows up and gets one in 15 to 20 mins.  Nodes level does indeed seem broken.  But I wonder if drops have more to do with time spent in an area and there's some kind of diminishing return in the drop rate in addition to broken nodes.  The longer you farm, you logically tend to dump more energy into the node but the worse the result.  So far, the only correlate you have is not with node level but with time spent.  The longer you spent there, the worse it gets. 

Now that I think about it, every single drop I've gotten in game was unintentional.  All the MoS/WE I got were from me doing the welfare jewelry quests.  And I got a Crescent ring the first time i showed up at the shrine to connect the node. 2 soiled the same week, 1 soiled sometime after and then jack shit as I slowly bumped the node up to lvl 6.  Seeing how nodes don't do anything I wonder if the solution to better farming simply involves switching farming areas daily.  The MO of this game is like a giant casino, the first win hooks you, but you really should leave and move on once you've hit that drop.

 

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Posted (edited)

Its simple.

You want to farm crecsent? Allright, lets say you have a 0,01% chance to get the ring as a drop - if you now have knowledge S + Node lvl 10 you get 50% from node and lets say 20% chance from S on rare items so a total of 70% (made up %) - Since your chance was 0,01% your new chance only is 0,017%.

Is it rlly that hard to see why it does basicly has no effect? Imo it is not.

All you get is a higher chance of some 0,--% chance. In the end your chance stays at 0,--% so how would it matter..

you can ignore rare drop, rare drops are rare and will stay rare no matter what

but why is he getting same/less amount of coins/silver/bandanas at lvl10 and lvl1 node? when I invest in node with rare drop I dont invest cos of that specific drop, only reason is to get more silver for time spent there, but am not getting that silver :D

Edited by Lapan
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Posted (edited)

you can ignore rare drop, rare drops are rare and will stay rare no matter what

but why is he getting same/less amount of coins/silver/bandanas at lvl10 and lvl1 node? when I invest in node with rare drop I dont invest cos of that specific drop, only reason is to get more silver for time spent there, but am not getting that silver :D

I dont think they increase anything besides rare drops and trash/silver (if you are overleveld for the monsters you are killing) ö.ö

I dont think anyone every said you get a higher amount of trash/silver > what it does tho is giving you trash/silver >more often< even if you are 20lvl's above the monsters. Meaning you get more trash/silver at lvl 59 while farming lets say tree-belt (and ofc the higher chance on the belt) - But you dont get more trash/silver then someone beeing lvl 30 w/o the node. (low lvl/same lvl = 100% trash/silver / overleveld = lower chance of them even droping trash/silver) 

Edited by wiwiRené

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Posted

Forgot to take a picture, but tracked the drops at Crescent Shrine up to 25000 trash items. Got 8 soiled rings, 16 scroll pieces, 19 black stones, 1 BMC Adamantine and 56 candies (because why not). Unconnected node, S rank on Guardian and Watcher, B rank on Follower. This was spread out across 9-10 hours of grinding. The poor rate of scroll piece drops was soul crushing.

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Posted

I dont think they increase anything besides rare drops and trash/silver (if you are overleveld for the monsters you are killing) ö.ö

I dont think anyone every said you get a higher amount of trash/silver > what it does tho is giving you trash/silver >more often< even if you are 20lvl's above the monsters. Meaning you get more trash/silver at lvl 59 while farming lets say tree-belt (and ofc the higher chance on the belt) - But you dont get more trash/silver then someone beeing lvl 30 w/o the node. (low lvl/same lvl = 100% trash/silver / overleveld = lower chance of them even droping trash/silver) 

even though the boost is very small, why does it drop less when the chances get higher? 
Also, form the trash loot I said i get around 2500-2700 cresent tokens per run.  a run ending by the condition of either reaching 100% weight or using up 150HP pots. So my runs were basicly always the same. Same knowledge, Same rotation, Same gearscore. Now, I've also mentioned I accidentily opened my 7-day kamasilve buff that we got some time back. Suddenly, even though it should BOOST my droprates.. I get about 1000 tokens LESS. I havent had this happening at ANY node level. I get the lowest amount of blackstones and had only 1 ancient language scroll drop for me! I'm starting to feel like there is a bug in the code where instead of buffing it, it debuffs it! 

Also, I like to state that i dont grind where I'm overleveled. I kill red mobs only.

 

ALSO! to the rest of the people... RNG -----ed me up and my gearscore took a huge hit! I will not continue untill im back at 188/249 AP/DP so my test will be as fair as possible!

With the current AP/DP i don't kill at the same rate and take too much damage and even die from time to time.. also, i'm poor as fawk now! :P 

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Posted

even though the boost is very small, why does it drop less when the chances get higher? Also, form the trash loot I said i get around 2500-2700 cresent tokens per run.  a run ending by the condition of either reaching 100% weight or using up 150HP pots. So my runs were basicly always the same. Same knowledge, Same rotation, Same gearscore. Now, I've also mentioned I accidentily opened my 7-day kamasilve buff that we got some time back. Suddenly, even though it should BOOST my droprates.. I get about 1000 tokens LESS. I havent had this happening at ANY node level. I get the lowest amount of blackstones and had only 1 ancient language scroll drop for me! I'm starting to feel like there is a bug in the code where instead of buffing it, it debuffs it! 

Also, I like to state that i dont grind where I'm overleveled. I kill red mobs only.

 

ALSO! to the rest of the people... RNG -----ed me up and my gearscore took a huge hit! I will not continue untill im back at 188/249 AP/DP so my test will be as fair as possible!

With the current AP/DP i don't kill at the same rate and take too much damage and even die from time to time.. also, i'm poor as fawk now! :P 

Sorry, but testing like this is not accurate at all. You can get trash-loot-drops x2 x3 x4 or x1 30 times in a row (RNG makes it happen even w/ your buffs). And since we are talking about crescent - Did you kill the same amount of monsters everytime? More important - did you kill the same amount of guardiens? Cause those give you 3 tokens at least - every single time.

What you need to test is - as i said : the same amount of monsters (the same amount of guardians in those number of monsters) and only then you can see the difference - if there is one. Time/pots/LT-limit none of those will give you accurate numbers - only if you kill the same numbers over and over you can have "fair samples".

Just do 12 times 100 kills 80 "normal" 20 guarians

So, 4 uncon. / 4 lvl 0 con. / 4 lvl 10 - compare - done. 

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Posted (edited)

Sorry, but testing like this is not accurate at all. You can get trash-loot-drops x2 x3 x4 or x1 30 times in a row (RNG makes it happen even w/ your buffs). And since we are talking about crescent - Did you kill the same amount of monsters everytime? More important - did you kill the same amount of guardiens? Cause those give you 3 tokens at least - every single time.

What you need to test is - as i said : the same amount of monsters (the same amount of guardians in those number of monsters) and only then you can see the difference - if there is one. Time/pots/LT-limit none of those will give you accurate numbers - only if you kill the same numbers over and over you can have "fair samples".

Just do 12 times 100 kills 80 "normal" 20 guarians

So, 4 uncon. / 4 lvl 0 con. / 4 lvl 10 - compare - done. 

mate, go back to my original post! page one. the very top! There is a test done already 4 runs lvl 7, 4 runs unconnected, 4 runs connected lvl0 and was doing 4 runs lvl5 node test but cant finish. but suddenly now i get 1500-1600 with the dropboost of 20%. 

Go check the amount of trashloot! they are all around 10K each. it's very consistant!

 

Edited by Nagasaki

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Posted

mate, go back to my original post! page one. the very top! There is a test done already 4 runs lvl 7, 4 runs unconnected, 4 runs connected lvl0 and was doing 4 runs lvl5 node test but cant finish. but suddenly now i get 1500-1600 with the dropboost of 20%. 
Go check the amount of trashloot! they are all around 10K each. it's very consistant!

 

Those test did not involve specific numbers of monsters you killed. As i said - thats not accurate :/

See, what im saying is - You can kill 3,5k untill your pots are gone - or you can kill 5k untill your pots are gone. 

I know you dont want to read someone telling you how your tests are flawed - but they are.

Even if its "very consitant" you talk about hours, number of pots or LT-limit. If you kill the exact same amount of monsters (the same amount of every single monster) you will get accurate numbers. Only then.

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Posted

Those test did not involve specific numbers of monsters you killed. As i said - thats not accurate :/

See, what im saying is - You can kill 3,5k untill your pots are gone - or you can kill 5k untill your pots are gone. 

I know you dont want to read someone telling you how your tests are flawed - but they are.

Even if its "very consitant" you talk about hours, number of pots or LT-limit. If you kill the exact same amount of monsters (the same amount of every single monster) you will get accurate numbers. Only then.

You want numbers? here are numbers for ya ;) 
Reddit test posted by an used on the previous page.


 

Noticed this post on reddit https://www.reddit.com/r/blackdesertonline/comments/5aoct9/node_level_and_knowledge_rank_test/ 

Here is the image that sums up this post:

1e1qppsgc5vx.png

It looks like that not only node level is bugged but also S knowledge. Also, it almost looks like as node level doesn't really matter in general...

This needs absolutely to be looked at, in the meanwhile i will just stick to my tinfoil hat. 

On a side note thank you OP for highlighting the problem without sticking to the "RNG is RNG" thing, please let's try to keep this thread up as much as possible to let people/GMs know!

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Posted

Another one of these threads lol.  Rng hard for people to wrap their heads around. 

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Posted

You want numbers? here are numbers for ya ;) 
Reddit test posted by an used on the previous page.


 

 

You dont seem to understand :/

Its cool that he killed 5k monsters - but, did look which monsters drop more trash/silver every single time and then killed the same amount of every single monster?

Meaning if there are 3 different loot-tables on 3 different monsters he needs to kill the same amount of everyone of them - everytime. If he does not do that its - again - not accurate. And im sure this guy did not (he would have told us the exact amounts if he did)

 

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Posted

Have anyone ever gotten a ring from crescent soiled? I leveled 2 char to 58 there an gotten at least of 100 empty soils. I did get 4 straight drop rings tho.

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Posted

You dont seem to understand :/

Its cool that he killed 5k monsters - but, did look which monsters drop more trash/silver every single time and then killed the same amount of every single monster?

Meaning if there are 3 different loot-tables on 3 different monsters he needs to kill the same amount of everyone of them - everytime. If he does not do that its - again - not accurate. And im sure this guy did not (he would have told us the exact amounts if he did)

 

dude.. you don't seem to take anything as an answer. Go run your own test. 
Also, the very same mobs, even if he'd kill only 1 type of mob drop either 1 or 3 tokens every time. 
And he DID give you the exact amount. 5k Have a nice day. believe what you want to believe.

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Posted

Should close this thread and link to bigandshiney's

http://forum.blackdesertonline.com/index.php?/topic/118513-node-level-and-knowledge-rank-test/

You dont seem to understand :/

Its cool that he killed 5k monsters - but, did look which monsters drop more trash/silver every single time and then killed the same amount of every single monster?

Meaning if there are 3 different loot-tables on 3 different monsters he needs to kill the same amount of everyone of them - everytime. If he does not do that its - again - not accurate. And im sure this guy did not (he would have told us the exact amounts if he did)

 

He didn't kill just 5000, he killed 135k pirates, that is a valid data set.  He only killed 5k crescents, and left out rare drops on purpose because the dataset is too small.

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Posted

Have anyone ever gotten a ring from crescent soiled? I leveled 2 char to 58 there an gotten at least of 100 empty soils. I did get 4 straight drop rings tho.

seems about right. 1ring every 25 soiled rings. had the same with ogre rings. 1 every 25 soiled. or well.. all i ever got was about 30 soiled and only had 1 ogre from those. :P 
after that it simply never dropped for me again :'( 

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Posted (edited)

Should close this thread and link to bigandshiney's

http://forum.blackdesertonline.com/index.php?/topic/118513-node-level-and-knowledge-rank-test/

He didn't kill just 5000, he killed 135k pirates, that is a valid data set.  He only killed 5k crescents, and left out rare drops on purpose because the dataset is too small.

See, again, i didnt ment 5k is a to low amount. I even said 1,2k would be good enaugh.

135k cool. Same amount of the same monsters every time? I dont think so.

edit : at this point idc anymore, as the OP said gl, hf.

Edited by wiwiRené
why do i even try :'D

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Posted (edited)

Should close this thread and link to bigandshiney's

http://forum.blackdesertonline.com/index.php?/topic/118513-node-level-and-knowledge-rank-test/

He didn't kill just 5000, he killed 135k pirates, that is a valid data set.  He only killed 5k crescents, and left out rare drops on purpose because the dataset is too small.

should close the 9 page thread because a new one was made a couple of hours ago.. okay..

how about let the GM's, CM's PM's comment on it and not close? :P

As for that other dude.. just ignore him. 

Edited by Nagasaki

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Posted

seems about right. 1ring every 25 soiled rings. had the same with ogre rings. 1 every 25 soiled. or well.. all i ever got was about 30 soiled and only had 1 ogre from those. :P 
after that it simply never dropped for me again :'( 

No you didnt understand :) I got nothing from soiled rings. But unlike Ogre the actual orange rings drop from crescents as well. 

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Posted (edited)

should close the 9 page thread because a new one was made a couple of hours ago.. okay..
how about let the GM's, CM's PM's comment on it and not close? :P

As for that other dude.. just ignore him. 

Plz when you can update the thread with that screenshot and the reddit source, hopefully we will reach the point where they can't ignore it anymore xD

Edited by LordBrasca

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Posted

You dont seem to understand :/

Its cool that he killed 5k monsters - but, did look which monsters drop more trash/silver every single time and then killed the same amount of every single monster?

Meaning if there are 3 different loot-tables on 3 different monsters he needs to kill the same amount of everyone of them - everytime. If he does not do that its - again - not accurate. And im sure this guy did not (he would have told us the exact amounts if he did)

 


It's hard to estimate the exact amount of kills even if you use the same exact rotation every time, since respawn timers seem to be staggered or spawns being broken outright. At the rotation I use there's a camp that is supposed to have 1 Guardian, 4 Watchers and 1 Follower but on some channels, for whatever reason, only 1 Guardian and 2 Watchers will spawn. And respawns are not fixed either, sometimes you'll miss mobs in a camp during a rotation because their respawn took longer, even if you last hit everything at the exact same time when you last cleared that camp.

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Posted

It's hard to estimate the exact amount of kills even if you use the same exact rotation every time, since respawn timers seem to be staggered or spawns being broken outright. At the rotation I use there's a camp that is supposed to have 1 Guardian, 4 Watchers and 1 Follower but on some channels, for whatever reason, only 1 Guardian and 2 Watchers will spawn. And respawns are not fixed either, sometimes you'll miss mobs in a camp during a rotation because their respawn took longer, even if you last hit everything at the exact same time when you last cleared that camp.

Yea you are totaly right. You would actually need to pick monster by monster. You would not be able to grind as usual which is why i would never test stuff like this - But it would be what you have to do for an accurate sample.

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Posted

Plz when you can update the thread with that screenshot and the reddit source, hopefully we will reach the point where they can't ignore it anymore xD

done and done ^^

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Posted

Chang says if ur lvl is too high your grind will not be blessed be RNG.

 

amen

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Posted

What you need to test is - as i said : the same amount of monsters (the same amount of guardians in those number of monsters) and only then you can see the difference

Simple question for you. Are you disregarding all the data collected here because you don't like the way the tests have been conducted? 

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Posted

Simple question for you. Are you disregarding all the data collected here because you don't like the way the tests have been conducted? 

he's the kind of guy that's never happy but also does not want to contribute with his own time investing trying to find out.

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