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Would you rather have a Dungeon or a Raid?

75 posts in this topic

Posted

The topic itself about dungeons has gone around sometime, and I think we can all agree that BDO's playstyle is very nice. We definitely don't want to end up like up MMO's with dungeon settings in which all you have left to do is run it over and over and over....  But that doesn't necessarily mean that having a dungeon of some kind is a bad thing.

So, if we were to get some type of dungeon, what would you prefer? Open field? Instanced zone? Solo? Party? Full Scale Raid? "Waves" (think disco ball)? What kind of drops? Gear? Bosses?

I'd love to pick everyones brain on the matter.

 

Me personally, I would love to an open instanced dungeon that is never the same twice.  A true Labyrinth of constantly changing walls, traps, monsters, and spontaneous difficulty.  What better type of dungeon to compliment BDO's RNG feature than a Labyrinth? A truly *unfair* dungeon.

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Posted

Open world dungeons with entrances scattered around the world and harder mobs inside would be nice. The recent gatekeeper and dungeons is a step in the right direction, although harder content needs to be buffed gains-wise to match its difficulty, since you'll generally get more out of smashing dozens of easy mobs in the time it'd take you to kill a handful of the harder mobs.

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Posted

Dungeon, but why no poll?

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Posted

We definitely don't want to end up like up MMO's with dungeon settings in which all you have left to do is run it over and over and over....

Instead we run in circles at the grind spots over and over and over...? :/

Personally, I would love to see the bar raised in terms of player skill when it comes to obtaining (endgame) gear. Reward those players who can play (their class) well, not those who can play the longest. As such, I would welcome instanced dungeons that can be done solo and/or in small parties (either a separate solo/party version, or scale with amount of players). Those dungeons are limited by daily lockouts upon completion, offer challenging encounters and most importantly give decent rewards. A good player should be able to complete such a dungeon within half an hour, others may have longer.

Think of it a bit like that daily grinding boost currently available: An extra daily activity that can be completed at your convenience within a reasonable amount of time offering a boosted daily reward that cannot be farmed. Just that this one has an actual player-skill requirement along with it. Those players of lesser talent but with plenty of time on their hands can always choose to go grind the extra hours instead like now, but the dungeons give those who want to put in the effort a chance to "keep up" with extra personal skill instead of extra hours of playtime. Something that is entirely missing from the game at this point.

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Posted (edited)

Oh yeah, because doing the same dungeon over and over again is not like grinding the same mobs to eternity. 

Edited by Beeso
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Posted

On the note of "running around doing the same thing"....this is a player self constricted fallacy that comes into play because high-level players "have no where else sufficient" to go.

I would not really want to see the same hum-drum type of dungeons other MMO's plug in, just to "give the players something else to do", but instead something more unique to BDO.

A Poll, doesn't necessarily capture the thoughts I am curious about, as I don't believe that everyone is necessarily against a dungeon for its name-sake, but rather they are agaisnt what they are "used to".

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Posted

On the note of "running around doing the same thing"....this is a player self constricted fallacy that comes into play because high-level players "have no where else sufficient" to go.

I would not really want to see the same hum-drum type of dungeons other MMO's plug in, just to "give the players something else to do", but instead something more unique to BDO.

A Poll, doesn't necessarily capture the thoughts I am curious about, as I don't believe that everyone is necessarily against a dungeon for its name-sake, but rather they are agaisnt what they are "used to".

Must have missed the part(s), where the game specifically tells you to go kill stuff on a daily basis for specific rewards, never seen that before, so humor me will ya!

635894160361140700.png

 

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Posted (edited)

Must have missed the part(s), where the game specifically tells you to go kill stuff on a daily basis for specific rewards, never seen that before, so humor me will ya!

Yes I understand that Daily Quests are by logic the same mechanic, but you are taking that from another context, not of what we are talking about.  What is being referred to in previous posts is the monotony of high-level players only having a specific area to grind in , because that specific area is the most feasible for them to do. 

Let's not turn this into an argument over split-hair semantics, and stick to the topic submitted.

The topic is that of adding content that most are familiar with, but in a style unique to BDO.  We all know what dungeons are, and raids, and we know how they work in other games.  But, how can we change, tweak, modify or twist those concepts to find a uniqueness unto our game?

 

For example, an above poster mentioned random entry points.  So lets say there is a single entry gate to a "special dungeon". This dungeon might "spawn" its entry at a random location throughout the BDO world. There might be someone around to find it....there might not....if no one enters...it moves on or "re-spawns' somewhere else....perhaps in the middle of town....perhaps way up high on a cliff range where no one is around.

Edited by Andaro

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Posted

I wouldn't mind seeing PVE that challenged the players like PVP does. What I mean by that...

Is that the game has a lot of standardized skill effects like healing, resurrection, iframing, and even taunt abilities. You don't actually see these skills being used much in PVE in a collaborative manner, and some cases not in PVP either (e.g. Wizard/Witch's Resurrection skill or med-kit).

What I've seen in TERA, the previous action combat MMORPG I played, where I got a lot of PVE experience, is that typical boss mechanics consist of dodging out of telegraphed area attacks; interrupting crucial instant death mechanics with CC; damage checks in the form of shields followed by a instant death mechanic if not removed; and constantly healing the party up for the mistakes they make, due potions not covering this enough. It also often gets to a point where the healer has to resurrect slain party members during a fight, allowing them to get back up and help, allowing for clutch clears.

There are some examples of these mechanics in BDO's PVE as well, such as getting out of Bheg's instant death flail swinging, or Karanda's feather rain. Not really any cases of relying on party healing, ressurection, or damage checks. Such mechanics wouldn't work for the world boss fights we have in BDO anyways. Though, I'd love to see dungeons that add more dynamics to PVE and making use of some of the party-centered skills that are in the game. But of course, it can get tricky implementing some of these mechanics, as more instant death mechanics suggests more deaths, whereas in our current system, you are punished heavily from dying, more than in TERA, where you can mitigate crystal loss.

 

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Posted

If I am not mistaken there is already an open world dungeon in Valencia. Question is, how many players have even set foot in it? Sure, it is hard and requires high levels and all that. Then again, what would be the point?

Try telling that to lvl 60s and actually even beyond that, still quite happy to annihilate the same old areas in all eternity, because you know... profit.

And since this beautiful and amazing otherwise game has one and ONLY one purpose, that being grind for profit so you can grind for gear so you can fail some more and then grind some even more, everything else becomes irrelevant. Which is a great shame. No matter what ideas and options are on the table, players are forced into a one track mind, the way the whole game is set up.

Having said that, I would welcome all sorts of stuff, variety never hurts. Could also have instances, together with open world dungeons, solo ones, party ones, raid-size ones, just depends which does what and what the purpose of doing each area would be.

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Posted

The topic is that of adding content that most are familiar with, but in a style unique to BDO.  We all know what dungeons are, and raids, and we know how they work in other games.  But, how can we change, tweak, modify or twist those concepts to find a uniqueness unto our game?

The question is what would you consider as unique and which of it is worth pursuing further in a dungeon/raid environment:

RNG-heavy mechanics and/or rewards? As far as I'm concerned, I would want consistency in dungeons/raids in order to be motivated to play them. Mastering mechanics by understanding them, not by getting lucky. Getting rewards at the end and not a casino-roll.

Gear-carry over actual skill? Again, this goes against the very nature of dungeons/raids and their skill-based elements.

(OW)PvP? As long as the previous two things exist, there is no point to further push this. Maybe -  and only then - if some sort of cap/equalization exists in terms of gear, one could introduce dungeon-instances with an "invasion" option, similar to how the souls games currently work. Player/Group A starts their dungeon-instance, while playing inside it, they can be invaded by another Player/Group. This nets in extra rewards for the victors.

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Posted

i like PVP playstyle like DARKNESS FALL in a old glory like DAOC

It is a huge dungeon in which you have some pve content , pve farming ground AND pvp chance

It could fit a lot in BDO playstyle!!

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Posted

Yes add dungeons like lvl 56, 58, 60 variants. 

The more pve content the better 

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Posted

I would rather have Kunoichi fix 

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Posted

Yes add dungeons like lvl 56, 58, 60 variants. 

The more pve content the better 

would you rather see multiple dungeons with set level ranges, or singular dungeons that change based on player level or perhaps party group level(s)

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Posted

I think the most critical flaw that BDO has is that it doesn't have mechanics outside of PVP that encourage player interaction. For a game that is advertised as a sandbox in kind of fails in that regard. A lot of people want dungeons because they're considered the epitome of group content, but personally I don't think the traditional dungeon fits into BDO. What BDO really needs is more mechanics that encourage PVE interactions between players. 

Now for what kind of dungeons I would like to see? I'd like to see open world dungeons provide puzzles and platforming where people have to work together to get to the end.

 

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Posted


Yes I understand that Daily Quests are by logic the same mechanic, but you are taking that from another context, not of what we are talking about.  What is being referred to in previous posts is the monotony of high-level players only having a specific area to grind in , because that specific area is the most feasible for them to do. 

Let's not turn this into an argument over split-hair semantics, and stick to the topic submitted.

I should have been more clear,I was  referring to what you said here:

" We definitely don't want to end up like up MMO's with dungeon settings in which all you have left to do is run it over and over and over.... "

You don't have dungeons here in the traditional sense, but you end up doing the same things over and over regardless, most of which fall under the category of "grinding" which is something most if not all players actually are "used to" but you make it sound like the gameplay in BDO offers something entirely different, perhaps while simultaneously attempting to advise against that very issue.

I do understand what you are aiming for, I am however extremely skeptical about it actually happening, generally speaking.

From my perspective, I'm done looking for the "oh so special" in this genre, I will simply settle with the "simply enjoyable", even though I wouldn't mind it, I just don't expect it anymore.

 

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Posted

rather than instanced dungeons, id like to see an open dungeon. think like SAO.

theres a door, go in. Measly mobs. decend one level, less measly mobs, kep decending levels till you find mobs your level/profitable. Maybe eventually we are fighting elites only like the new valencia elites and they drop the same loot as they drop in the open world.

each level has a boss at the exit which you need to beat in order to go to the next level. If you have previously beaten that boss, you can just go in deeper.

each level has an initial safe room. so that you can technically ride a horse all the way to deepest level and then park him there.

maybe instead of loot-money conversion, make it loot-item conversion.
like 500 trash loot = 5 mem frags/stones/some gem/ gear peice. making grinding the dungeon different from simply grinding money.

same pvp flagging rules apply.

Though, ofcourse id like to see a ranked, laddered PVP arena over any dungeons/raids

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Posted

No instanced trash plz

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Posted

maybe instead of loot-money conversion, make it loot-item conversion.
like 500 trash loot = 5 mem frags/stones/some gem/ gear peice. making grinding the dungeon different from simply grinding money.

This is a nice touch. Didn't someone mention in a thread about "uselessness of cron stones"? perhaps you can turn that trash loot into something useful. 

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Posted

NO to Dungeons and Raid

Go back to WOW for dungeons and raid

:ph34r:

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Posted (edited)

Indeed dungeon. Instancied dungeon ( like the BDO houses )

I think the most critical flaw that BDO has is that it doesn't have mechanics outside of PVP that encourage player interaction. For a game that is advertised as a sandbox in kind of fails in that regard. A lot of people want dungeons because they're considered the epitome of group content, but personally I don't think the traditional dungeon fits into BDO. What BDO really needs is more mechanics that encourage PVE interactions between players.

BDO isnt a sandbox AT ALL. its a open world - without loading - thempark. Very nice open world but still.

 

Well dungeon also add ( supposedly ) challenge, so a good "achievement" feeling, since you have a clear start and a end, and its quick compare to that gear grind fest. BDO pve dont provide that at all since its a endless grind at a very few different spot.

Dungeon also are a way to provide a "lot" of environment variety, while the outside can me more "repetitive" because it have to match with a geographical logic. This its something that BDO miss a lot ( as much as i really love the realistic way they build the various outside scenery )

 

It also act as sometime refreshing since it have its own "game rules" to break with the "habit" of the open world.

 

Dungeon, if well managed and not only used as "end game mandatory place to farm" are very cool. ( i personaly really loved the various BnS "short" dungeons )

 

As for the player interaction, well yeah, with that fear of gold seller they cutted down so much thing in pve... ( so a lot of their original plan, like with the trader guild - religion guild.. etc )

that game is now saddly ( outside questing ) only a rng grindfest

 

 

Edited by woots

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Posted

Sadly i think we would need a Thread like this over at the Korean Forums since PA does not produce any new content for EU/NA we just get the same stuff.

I dont like it, but thats how it is. They might change the smalest things here and there but lets be honest they wont every dedicate a team to produce any EU/NA specific content.

To still answnser your question > Dungeons - i wont explain why (since it does not matter at all, they dont care)

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Posted

The topic itself about dungeons has gone around sometime, and I think we can all agree that BDO's playstyle is very nice. We definitely don't want to end up like up MMO's with dungeon settings in which all you have left to do is run it over and over and over....  But that doesn't necessarily mean that having a dungeon of some kind is a bad thing.

So, if we were to get some type of dungeon, what would you prefer? Open field? Instanced zone? Solo? Party? Full Scale Raid? "Waves" (think disco ball)? What kind of drops? Gear? Bosses?

I'd love to pick everyones brain on the matter.

 

Me personally, I would love to an open instanced dungeon that is never the same twice.  A true Labyrinth of constantly changing walls, traps, monsters, and spontaneous difficulty.  What better type of dungeon to compliment BDO's RNG feature than a Labyrinth? A truly *unfair* dungeon.

I start loughing after u said we don t want to run and run again.Well I understand you grind every 15 min difrent spot m8 :)

No offense m8 just think about our grind fest 

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Posted

I just want them to revamp bosses so they all have mechanics. 

Figuring out or finding out how to defeat a boss is FUN to me. As it is, most bosses (especially those summoned from scrolls) are mind-numbing. I get so bored @@ 

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