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Would you rather have a Dungeon or a Raid?

75 posts in this topic

Posted (edited)

Open world dungeons with entrances scattered around the world and harder mobs inside would be nice. The recent gatekeeper and dungeons is a step in the right direction, although harder content needs to be buffed gains-wise to match its difficulty, since you'll generally get more out of smashing dozens of easy mobs in the time it'd take you to kill a handful of the harder mobs.

The problem with the dungeons is that first of all they are far too hard (for current gear) compared to profits and second of all... They are basically just another grindspot.

Edited by gosu

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Posted

I don't know, man.  I quit those games with dungeon/raids because they became a chore instead of a hobby.  I just don't think it's fun that way.  

1 person likes this

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Posted

The game NOT having daily/weekly lock out dungeon routines is the reason it's as refreshing as it is to long time MMO players. Progress as fast as you're willing to, not as fast as they'll allow you. RNG is cruel but at least you can throw your face at it as fast as you want without it forcing you to stop because of weekly lockout raid crap.

I personally think it would be a major step in the wrong direction if they put in a straight up weekly dungeon or raid.

Find unique ways to challenge long time players, don't conform to the awfulness that makes most other games extremely boring once you and your set raid team clears weekly junk for weekly tokens for eventual rewards. That all just feels like a job after a while once the newness and challenge is gone.

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Posted

don't we have ahkman and hysteria for that? ahkman is normal difficulty whilst hysteria is hardcore difficulty... like you are asking for something we already have?

 

and those dungeon/instance are not packed... some spots are always free. 

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Posted

Boss Mode w/ Medal Ranking (Free Revives)

Gold : Defeat boss without getting Hit

Silver: Defeat boss with at least 2 deaths

Bronze: Defeat boss

 

Then you can exchange the medals you earn to get some goodies.

 

Yes, its the same as the Vindictus xD

 

but it would be nice to choose which boss to fight then you can record solo fights or co-op but boss will be stronger and larger HP if you play with friends.

well idk whatever xD

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Posted

don't we have ahkman and hysteria for that? ahkman is normal difficulty whilst hysteria is hardcore difficulty... like you are asking for something we already have?

 

and those dungeon/instance are not packed... some spots are always free. 

What if there was a dungeon or raid you had to run through one time, in order to progress to the next area or set of content? 

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Posted

don't we have ahkman and hysteria for that? ahkman is normal difficulty whilst hysteria is hardcore difficulty... like you are asking for something we already have?

 

and those dungeon/instance are not packed... some spots are always free. 

These are just other stupid grind areas and nothing more. The mobs just have "more" HP and hit harder.

Enjoy:

 

 

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Posted

Dungeons to grind exp and money? No thx. Dungeon would be great with exclusive drops, like WoW, and it will never happen.

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Posted

If I am not mistaken there is already an open world dungeon in Valencia. Question is, how many players have even set foot in it? Sure, it is hard and requires high levels and all that. Then again, what would be the point?

Try telling that to lvl 60s and actually even beyond that, still quite happy to annihilate the same old areas in all eternity, because you know... profit.

And since this beautiful and amazing otherwise game has one and ONLY one purpose, that being grind for profit so you can grind for gear so you can fail some more and then grind some even more, everything else becomes irrelevant. Which is a great shame. No matter what ideas and options are on the table, players are forced into a one track mind, the way the whole game is set up.

Having said that, I would welcome all sorts of stuff, variety never hurts. Could also have instances, together with open world dungeons, solo ones, party ones, raid-size ones, just depends which does what and what the purpose of doing each area would be.

Actually once more people have awakenings and 200+ ap it is very profitable to go into the dungeons in valencia (aakman and hysteria) and grind there in a full party. 240+ ap is recommended for solo so that's a long way off for most players.

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Posted

Dungeon, only raid they know how to make is a zerg/lag/oneshot mob.

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Posted

would you rather see multiple dungeons with set level ranges, or singular dungeons that change based on player level or perhaps party group level(s)

Whatever is the fairest option..not sure? Multiple dungeons sounds nice but maybe it would be another case of the rich get richer?

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Posted

Dungeon, only raid they know how to make is a zerg/lag/oneshot mob.

Whatever is the fairest option..not sure? Multiple dungeons sounds nice but maybe it would be another case of the rich get richer?

tis the purpose of this thread really. to find out what you don't like, what you do like, and how you would tailor it, what you think would make it a great addition. 

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Posted

You get an an exclusive earring in Akman and Hystria, Hystria also drops an exclusive necklace.

http://bddatabase.net/us/item/11828/

http://bddatabase.net/us/item/11629/

Even Crescent mobs drop an exclusive item, it's not what I meant. I am talking about themed dungeons with themed drops. Like boss armors and weapons with themed skins.

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Posted

Even Crescent mobs drop an exclusive item, it's not what I meant. I am talking about themed dungeons with themed drops. Like boss armors and weapons with themed skins.

That is another interesting concept on the dungeon / raid system.

Usually, a well designed D/R would have Gear that can only be obtained within that D/R and is usually distinct in appearance and stats.

I would love to see some concept art from anyone that may have a knack for artwork.

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Posted

That is another interesting concept on the dungeon / raid system.

Usually, a well designed D/R would have Gear that can only be obtained within that D/R and is usually distinct in appearance and stats.

I would love to see some concept art from anyone that may have a knack for artwork.

Indeed, that would be great, though I'm aware I'm just dreaming because it will never happen in BDO.

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Posted (edited)

This is and open world game, even if it would have dungeons with bosses they would be public to anyone (if someone played DAoC you know what I mean).

This would result in boss camping in dungeons. Still better than grinding, but still worse for people who cannot spend much time into playing the game.

Edited by Kargor

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Posted (edited)

Indeed, that would be great, though I'm aware I'm just dreaming because it will never happen in BDO.

It will happen eventually. It may be 4 to 5 years down the road, but at some point, they will put in *some* type of dungeon. As others have posted, we are already seeing some form of such content within Valencia.  The purpose of this thread is to gather feedback from everyone collectively and creatively so that perhaps our thoughts may influence that content if and when it ever does come.

(goes back to his stool at the bar)(please do carry on ^_^)

Edited by Andaro

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Posted (edited)

I just want them to revamp bosses so they all have mechanics. 

Figuring out or finding out how to defeat a boss is FUN to me. As it is, most bosses (especially those summoned from scrolls) are mind-numbing. I get so bored @@ 

Well, the thing is, games have instanced dungeons for bosses because that's what allows for the most interesting fights. I mean, take a game like Vindictus for example; the big bosses there are very challenging and skill-based, to the point that 1 great player can solo them while a full party of 8 people can have 0 chance of success if none of them are good enough, even with the exact same gear as the solo player. But what happens if you throw 50 people at it instead, with unlimited revives because it's in an open world, so people can just walk back? What happens is that skill is no longer important, because sheer numbers and persistence (i.e., zerging) will bring the boss down anyway.

Of course, this has been tackled before with "world event" type scenarios. In GW2 for example, the big world bosses are beaten not through the player's skill at controlling their character, but by the mechanics that are provided by the event. For example, you may have siege weaponry that players must fire at the otherwise-invulnerable boss while other players have to protect the siege weapons from attack, alongside other mechanics and usually changing between each phase. Done well this can provide a challenge immune to simple zerging and can be incredibly interesting and engaging...the first few times you do it. The problem is that these events get stale all the same because they are, by their nature, the same thing every time; the mechanics that are so intricately-designed become no less routine when you've done them 100 times before.

So we have three choices here:

1. The current choice, open world zerg bosses. Boring, to be sure, but the simplest means of making open-world bosses.

2. Instanced bosses, which the player-base in general doesn't want but can be the most consistently-fun because they can demand very high player skill, keeping you on your toes and engaged in every encounter.

3. Open world "event"-type bosses, which can again be much more entertaining at first but just as mind-numbing as zerg bosses once the player-base gets used to the mechanics. They are also much more difficult and time-consuming to create, adding the additional layer of intricate mechanics to the mix.

Is it worth the extra development time to go with option 3 just for the initial enjoyment when the boss is first released? We would still be complaining a month after that when the boss becomes stale and mind-numbing, but it would definitely make me more excited about new bosses. My personal choice would be number 2, but I realize it's an unpopular opinion.

All that said, maybe there's a way to make 3 more consistently-entertaining; maybe through a random combination of mechanics on each spawn, chosen from a long list of options? I've never seen it done and I don't think it's quite PA's forte so I don't think they'll be the ones to figure such a thing out, but it's always possible I suppose.

Edited by Zephan

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Posted

Indeed, that would be great, though I'm aware I'm just dreaming because it will never happen in BDO.

they do have exlclusive drops.in that dungeons you can get the tungrade accs

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Posted

they do have exlclusive drops.in that dungeons you can get the tungrade accs

Which btw are the best AP accessories.

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Posted

The only thing I rally hate about the mechanic in BDO is that we have random timers spawning bosses and if you are not close enough to the boss area you'll arrive late to receive decent loot. If we had Dungeons the waiting for a boss to spawn and the "running to get there" will also be eliminated. Yes, dungeons seem to be a bit over used but they works better then waiting for random timers or rushing to a spawn area where you might not even make it on time. BDO tried something different but I think its a horrible mechanic.

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Posted

Personally I'd love to see things like Cruma Tower, Tower of Insolence, Lair of Antharas (from L2). Things where you'd go specifically with a party to stay for a while. Though apparently those will exist eventually.

But quite honestly, since they literally shat on the OW PvP idea of the game, it doesn't even matter. If they're just gonna stick to the policy of having OW PvP be dead, they might as well implement events like Infinite Tower or Blood Castle (from MU).

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Without really bothering to read the rest of the thread, technically we already have what the devs call "dungeons" Aakman and Hystria, as well as the underground part of helms is considered a dungeon as well as a few other parts of the map.

However, I doubt these are what you are refering to.

The only kind of "instanced dungeon" that I could see fitting into bdo would be for level 58+ with average AP group requirement of 185+ and 240+ dp.

The whole dungeon would take about half an hour to an hour to wipe clean with rewards at the end being something like imperial conquest tokens in which you can trade in for gear or items.. that's about as far as I can see any dungeon going in bdo.

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Posted

 I like PvE content that requires team work to reach a common goal, be it special equipment or rare drops.

 Current world bosses and dungeons just aren't cutting it in my opinion. Yes, each world boss gives players a chance at boss gear, but it's very first come first serve(hell, if you don't have alt characters sitting at bheg/tree/mudster, don't expect to get there in time). The "dungeons" we have currently expect you to already be "end game" with your equipment. 

 I think the main issues in this game are the lack of "equal opportunity", and lower level content to keep people engaged. There is very little reason to work together during PvE content in Black Desert, and most players understand that "might is right" rules over all the open world grind locations. This statement is experienced by many players across all servers, and it can best be described by higher geared players that "got there first". For some players, this means the farther behind you are(both in level, skill points, and gear), the farther behind you are going to get.

 The whole point of a Raid is giving players that "got there first" a reward for the time and effort they put in to an MMO. Raids are difficult, and require team work or godly gear to have any hope in completing them. For people that aren't "ahead of the curve", you have dungeons. Dungeons are a way to collect materials(be it equipment, or enhancement material) to handle Raids. Dungeons are generally easier than Raids and give newer players a way to practice both team work, and skill. Both give players a reason to work together, whether it's with fellow guild members or P.U.G.s, and I think that's something worth while. 

 

 What the arguments for or against Raids/Dungeons really comes down to: The rewards you are getting for this kind of content, and how often you're able to get those rewards.

 

 

 

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