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Huge tamer grab issue (We need to make sure this gets fixed soon)

55 posts in this topic

Posted

Appreciate the tag, I will speak with our team to schedule a session with our bug squashing folks and see if we can't reproduce the described issue. The video and additional information provided here will be invaluable, excellent job including it!

Once I have more information I'll get back to you guys.

Can we get an update on this please. It's been months. Not to mention a reply on the nerf we got that was not included in the patch notes. Starting to feel like you just don't bother with tamers because we are a small population compared to say witch or wiz who got a hotfix in one day.

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Posted

up for attention

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Posted

Fix ur shit retards, game has been out for to long and still not being fixed, get ur act together and do it. 

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Posted

Kindly please @GM_Dew and @GM_Caramel , it would be nice if you can help with this matter ... whenever that happens I keep sneezing MDRHuRq.gif

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Posted

Waiting on a response from Kakao dev team

  

 

 

 

188548.jpg

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Posted

Maybe we need to tweet Trump. He's a grabbing expert.

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Posted

If they never fixed tamers in kr,i doubt they would care to fix it here.

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Posted

If they never fixed tamers in kr,i doubt they would care to fix it here.

I don't think KR tamers even noticed it, saw multiple koreans having this issue happen and they blamed desync instead of an actual bug.

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Posted (edited)

I don't think KR tamers even noticed it, saw multiple koreans having this issue happen and they blamed desync instead of an actual bug.

Because they are right...

Tamer has 2 major problems right now:

1. That Wizard / Witch deal more damage to tamer. ( That's obvious ). I Still think that problem is easy detectable and Should be fixed asap. The problem is that with the upcoming contents , new characters and so on, mostlikely this problem is not prioritized right now. So I personally don't expect to be fixed any soon.

2. Many players reported that there are bug issue with Tamer's grab. But from my experience , the problem is not in the grab itself , but in the FLOATING part of the skill. Because Tamer has major desync problem with the floating effect in general. Now here comes the problem. The essential of the floating skill combined with desync/lag of the server follows to the problem that occur right now -> desyncing the landing place of your opponent. What is bad here is that this so called "BUG" is more likely connected to the lag/desync problem of the game in General. For me this will Never be fixed, because of too many reasons, where the major one is MONEY. If you still beleave that's not true , I guess only time will prove if I am wrong here or not.

Now lets see some Facts:

-Problem 1 is known since some months - still nothing happened. But hey we still have our hope, aren't we :)

-Problem 2 is known since game release. You can decide for yourself here.

For me , I already accepted the game the way it is, play it like it is -> ignoring these bugs , because I learned how to bypass them somehow.

If a day came that they are fixed , I will be happy , but I am not waiting for these days anyway.

 
Edited by rximmortal

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Posted

2. Many players reported that there are bug issue with Tamer's grab. But from my experience , the problem is not in the grab itself , but in the FLOATING part of the skill. Because Tamer has major desync problem with the floating effect in general. Now here comes the problem. The essential of the floating skill combined with desync/lag of the server follows to the problem that occur right now -> desyncing the landing place of your opponent. What is bad here is that this so called "BUG" is more likely connected to the lag/desync problem of the game in General. For me this will Never be fixed, because of too many reasons, where the major one is MONEY. If you still beleave that's not true , I guess only time will prove if I am wrong here or not.

 

You are right because this is not only a Tamer issue. I have the same "bug" on my Ninja but its a little different there. When you grab someone and do the double jump thing in the air the person you grabbed lands behind/inside you for a split second after hitting the ground instead in front of you. Im pretty sure thats also related to the server desync. The thing is, the grab worked fine before awakenings. Something must have happened. Even for Tamer the grab wasnt that bad in the past.

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Posted

2. Many players reported that there are bug issue with Tamer's grab. But from my experience , the problem is not in the grab itself , but in the FLOATING part of the skill. Because Tamer has major desync problem with the floating effect in general. Now here comes the problem. The essential of the floating skill combined with desync/lag of the server follows to the problem that occur right now -> desyncing the landing place of your opponent. What is bad here is that this so called "BUG" is more likely connected to the lag/desync problem of the game in General. For me this will Never be fixed, because of too many reasons, where the major one is MONEY. If you still beleave that's not true , I guess only time will prove if I am wrong here or not.

I explained it before but i guess you didn't read the whole post.. Tamer grab issues mentioned here are not related to desync, and this is a tamer only issue. Also it doesn't happen with any other float skills, so it has to do with the tamer grab skill itself, not floats in general.

You are right because this is not only a Tamer issue. I have the same "bug" on my Ninja but its a little different there. When you grab someone and do the double jump thing in the air the person you grabbed lands behind/inside you for a split second after hitting the ground instead in front of you. Im pretty sure thats also related to the server desync. The thing is, the grab worked fine before awakenings. Something must have happened. Even for Tamer the grab wasnt that bad in the past.

This is just normal desync, wouldn't happen on targets not moving at all, unlike the tamer bug. And the tamer issue has always been there, but since bolt/jolt still hits due to its high aoe range, it wasn't really hurting our ability do dmg people after a grab, but now it does (mostly because echo doesn't hit at all 90% of grabs).

So again, desync will always be there and it affects all classes. BUT the bug we are talking about here has nothing to do with desync, which is why it can and should be fixed.

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Posted (edited)

I explained it before but i guess you didn't read the whole post.. Tamer grab issues mentioned here are not related to desync, and this is a tamer only issue. Also it doesn't happen with any other float skills, so it has to do with the tamer grab skill itself, not floats in general.

This is just normal desync, wouldn't happen on targets not moving at all, unlike the tamer bug. And the tamer issue has always been there, but since bolt/jolt still hits due to its high aoe range, it wasn't really hurting our ability do dmg people after a grab, but now it does (mostly because echo doesn't hit at all 90% of grabs).

So again, desync will always be there and it affects all classes. BUT the bug we are talking about here has nothing to do with desync, which is why it can and should be fixed.

Guess it cant be helped.... Ok. I guess I don't explain it properly , because as I can see you read the whole post.

1. It is float problem ( not grab ) and YES it is connected to desync.

2. It is not Tamer only issue. But tamer is greatly affect of it because , all of his primary CC skills use Float.

3. About non moving target. Ehhhhhhh...... Okey.... In some situation the desync that happened is PERMANENT. which means that what you see on your screen is not what your opponent see on his screen. When this occurs you need to wait for servers to sync ( which may takes great amount of time and we don't talk about seconds here) or just die it will faster the process. During this process ALL grab attempts will just fail because of the permanent desync. ( I tested this )

Even if the grab succeed because the  PERMANENT desync was a little , than comes the floating effect , (desync again) , so it can appears that it desyncing a target that is not moving. ( Bug mentioned above ). It is still caused of desync/lag.

4. The game is out in korea and beleave it or not they face most of the problems 1 year before us. The lag/desync in korea is greatly reduced compared to our servers. The game is still the same and IT IS NOT AN INGAME BUG.

5. Not fixing these problems for that long means only 2 things -> They cant fix the problem (Because if its general one ( like lag / desync ) it will cost them a lot of money or

They just don't have time to do it. I bet on the first case.

The Desync is a lot greater than you thing and it affects all of the characters. The problem is that with larger hitbox of the skills , desync cant be sensed so much. That's why that most of the AOE skills always deal damage during combos and the ones like ECHO miss on 50-70% of the time. A good and easy way to temporary fix the problem of Tamers can be making echo hitbox larger . Than echo will miss less. And we can deal our NORMAL combat dmg.

Edited by rximmortal

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Posted

Guess it cant be helped.... Ok. I guess I don't explain it properly , because as I can see you read the whole post.

1. It is float problem ( not grab ) and YES it is connected to desync.

2. It is not Tamer only issue. But tamer is greatly affect of it because , all of his primary CC skills use Float.

3. About non moving target. Ehhhhhhh...... Okey.... In some situation the desync that happened is PERMANENT. which means that what you see on your screen is not what your opponent see on his screen. When this occurs you need to wait for servers to sync ( which may takes great amount of time and we don't talk about seconds here) or just die it will faster the process. During this process ALL grab attempts will just fail because of the permanent desync. ( I tested this )

Even if the grab succeed because the  PERMANENT desync was a little , than comes the floating effect , (desync again) , so it can appears that it desyncing a target that is not moving. ( Bug mentioned above ). It is still caused of desync/lag.

4. The game is out in korea and beleave it or not they face most of the problems 1 year before us. The lag/desync in korea is greatly reduced compared to our servers. The game is still the same and IT IS NOT AN INGAME BUG.

5. Not fixing these problems for that long means only 2 things -> They cant fix the problem (Because if its general one ( like lag / desync ) it will cost them a lot of money or

They just don't have time to do it. I bet on the first case.

The Desync is a lot greater than you thing and it affects all of the characters. The problem is that with larger hitbox of the skills , desync cant be sensed so much. That's why that most of the AOE skills always deal damage during combos and the ones like ECHO miss on 50-70% of the time. A good and easy way to temporary fix the problem of Tamers can be making echo hitbox larger . Than echo will miss less. And we can deal our NORMAL combat dmg.

1. Then why does it not happen with other float skills ? (the sliding/teleporting issue)

2. Well what other class has this issue ? And what skills ? Hope you can bring proof too because i won't be able to test it myself.

3. "Permanent desync" isn't what happens here. The target was always in front of me during my tests (in both our screens), and he himself saw the grab throw him in a random direction every time. So it is NOT a desync issue (since it happens for both players). And did you even watch the videos ? The target didn't move once between all my grabs, so the server had all the time to "sync" as you say.

Desync literally can't happen if your opponent isn't doing anything (ie in my tests).

4. Then why is this grab issue a thing in those servers too ? I can link you videos of koreans experiencing the exact same bug, so it's not because of our server, it's an ingame bug.

5. There are a lot of easy-to-fix bugs that they still haven't fixed after almost a year of bug reports (for example pet dying from a bit of water), so it's not that they can't fix it, it's just they aren't even trying to.

Lastly i agree with you about echo hitbox and how desync affects it, echo should have a bigger hitbox, no one can disagree with that. But it's not the issue we are talking about here. If grab worked properly, at least we would be 100% sure that the target is straight in front of us and echo would pmuch never miss after successful grabs.

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Posted

Can anyone confirm that this bug is back since the last maintenance? I have noticed it multiple times now as shown in OPs video

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Posted

Can anyone confirm that this bug is back since the last maintenance? I have noticed it multiple times now as shown in OPs video

It is, don't think it was ever fully gone but it's a lot worse again.
 

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Posted

Soaring Kick >float ,definitely not a bug its an intended feature called desync,any knockdown and float have the chance to desync your target on your end (for all class) even if your target is not moving,also you can have an another weird thing if you do an atk who is not considered as a moving skill but it effectively move you and after a knockdown if your toon hitbox collide on top of the the target hitbox when your target hit the floor(and a few frame after)the target can disappear from your front to go on your back and take no damage when he is invisible atleast on pve maybe they patch it as i did not see this recently on pve and never experience it on pvp (and not on tamer as i dont have 1).

Workaround for your grab make it a bound and problem solved.

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Posted (edited)

I see This topic is still alive.

Maybe , just maybe , when the big pvp arena ( similar to RBF ) come , the desync there will be less , but event than it will never be gone. Because it is not a problem of the game but it is a server problem.

As always I am here to help :) . Maybe most of you know what I shall write, because forum is full of pro players , but still I will inform the new gamers how to overcome the desync in the game.

Problem: After grab (mainly) or any floating sklll (more rarely) there is a chance to occure the so called desync. What happened is that you opponent is on the ground on a different location of what u are seeing on your monitor. This is a problem because you miss your damage skills that way :(

Solution: It seems that if you managed to hit (somehow) a desync target , he autocorrect his position ( Of course it do not work always ). Which means that after grab your best combo follower should be Bolt+Jolt combination cuz it has a large aoe hitbox. Beleave it or not many time bolt+Jolt corrected a really far desynced target which allows me to add the more precision and big damage skills as intended :)

GL.

Edited by rximmortal

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Posted

Soaring Kick >float ,definitely not a bug its an intended feature called desync,any knockdown and float have the chance to desync your target on your end (for all class) even if your target is not moving,also you can have an another weird thing if you do an atk who is not considered as a moving skill but it effectively move you and after a knockdown if your toon hitbox collide on top of the the target hitbox when your target hit the floor(and a few frame after)the target can disappear from your front to go on your back and take no damage when he is invisible atleast on pve maybe they patch it as i did not see this recently on pve and never experience it on pvp (and not on tamer as i dont have 1).

Workaround for your grab make it a bound and problem solved.

I see This topic is still alive.

Maybe , just maybe , when the big pvp arena ( similar to RBF ) come , the desync there will be less , but event than it will never be gone. Because it is not a problem of the game but it is a server problem.

As always I am here to help :) . Maybe most of you know what I shall write, because forum is full of pro players , but still I will inform the new gamers how to overcome the desync in the game.

Problem: After grab (mainly) or any floating sklll (more rarely) there is a chance to occure the so called desync. What happened is that you opponent is on the ground on a different location of what u are seeing on your monitor. This is a problem because you miss your damage skills that way :(

Solution: It seems that if you managed to hit (somehow) a desync target , he autocorrect his position ( Of course it do not work always ). Which means that after grab your best combo follower should be Bolt+Jolt combination cuz it has a large aoe hitbox. Beleave it or not many time bolt+Jolt corrected a really far desynced target which allows me to add the more precision and big damage skills as intended :)

GL.

I don't know how many times i will have to explain this, but this tamer grab issue has nothing to do with desync, read comments above.

Besides, using bolt+jolt after grab doesn't help to avoid the bug. If the bug happens, you will most likely hit the bolt+jolt because of the large aoe, but you will still miss your following skills with small hitboxes like echo. However you can reduce the impact of this bug by using mostly large aoe skills after grab, and avoiding skills like echos as much as possible (you still need to do one for swap purposes usually).

For instance a typical grab combo is : bj > lbp > bj > echo > moonlight > full moon. The echo will most likely miss, and maybe even the moonlight and/or full moon (but missing everything is unlikely). Most of your dmg will hit even if the bug happens, which is what you want. You can also try to avoid awakening skills like echo and moonlight completely, but you lose some dmg.

But if the bug was fixed, our dmg/invulnerability potential after grab would be increased since we would be able to hit skills like echo all the time. By the way it is possible to make a grab work properly even if it's not a bound (ie ranger grab is knockdown and it has no issues of that kind). So they could most likely fix tamer grab if they wanted to.

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Posted (edited)

 Every past comment dont discredit the possibility of desync.

3. "Permanent desync" isn't what happens here. The target was always in front of me during my tests (in both our screens), and he himself saw the grab throw him in a random direction every time. So it is NOT a desync issue (since it happens for both players). And did you even watch the videos ? The target didn't move once between all my grabs, so the server had all the time to "sync" as you say.

Desync literally can't happen if your opponent isn't doing anything (ie in my tests).

 

I don't know how many times i will have to explain this, but this tamer grab issue has nothing to do with desync, read comments above.

 

For instance a typical grab combo is : bj > lbp > bj > echo > moonlight > full moon. The echo will most likely miss, and maybe even the moonlight and/or full moon (but missing everything is unlikely). Most of your dmg will hit even if the bug happens, which is what you want. You can also try to avoid awakening skills like echo and moonlight completely, but you lose some dmg.

But if the bug was fixed, our dmg/invulnerability potential after grab would be increased since we would be able to hit skills like echo all the time. By the way it is possible to make a grab work properly even if it's not a bound (ie ranger grab is knockdown and it has no issues of that kind). So they could most likely fix tamer grab if they wanted to.

You definitively dont know how desync works...Desync can be  both ways even if your target is not moving if you cannot sync the new pos of your target after kd/float and/or your target is not sync with his new "forced"pos (the latter is less comon as you can damage him most of the time and its barely noticable if it is not a fully "invincible")causing the phenomena called DESYNC on the video's op case the outcome maybe:

  • the target switch back and forth on 2 different position.
  • the target is showed on 1 place can/cannot be damaged and get up on a different position.
  • the target is in correct position but cannot be damaged.
  • the target is in correct position and can be damaged and get up on the correct pos.

Hell even at the oasis festival during the joking tournament there was heavy desync on a server located at 30 meter on lan, so it is not a 100% connectivity issue hence

its an intended feature called desync

Yeah knockdown/float effect...dont have to be a tamer to be plague by that...

Incorrect pos is also not a tamer'special any kd/float for any a class can do that.(much more for float than kd)

Edited by dobe

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Posted

 Every past comment dont discredit the possibility of desync.

 

You definitively dont know how desync works...Desync can be  both ways even if your target is not moving if you cannot sync the new pos of your target after kd/float and/or your target is not sync with his new "forced"pos (the latter is less comon as you can damage him most of the time and its barely noticable if it is not a fully "invincible")causing the phenomena called DESYNC on the video's op case the outcome maybe:

  • the target switch back and forth on 2 different position.
  • the target is showed on 1 place can/cannot be damaged and get up on a different position.
  • the target is in correct position but cannot be damaged.
  • the target is in correct position and can be damaged and get up on the correct pos.

Hell even at the oasis festival during the joking tournament there was heavy desync on a server located at 30 meter on lan, so it is not a 100% connectivity issue hence

Yeah knockdown/float effect...dont have to be a tamer to be plague by that...

Incorrect pos is also not a tamer'special any kd/float for any a class can do that.(much more for float than kd

It doesn't discredit the possibility of desync, but saying it was just that is disingenuous.

The server placed the zerker in a location the grab never would. It ignored client-side information from either party, and made crap up to resolve the situation. I've experienced something similar when a forward dodge led to me teleporting around the map. These weird interactions aren't directly from desyncs, they are created by the terrible way the server deals with them.

None of the other mmo's I've played have this many outcomes for a desync.

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Posted (edited)

 Every past comment dont discredit the possibility of desync.

You definitively dont know how desync works...Desync can be  both ways even if your target is not moving if you cannot sync the new pos of your target after kd/float and/or your target is not sync with his new "forced"pos (the latter is less comon as you can damage him most of the time and its barely noticable if it is not a fully "invincible")causing the phenomena called DESYNC on the video's op case the outcome maybe:

  • the target switch back and forth on 2 different position.
  • the target is showed on 1 place can/cannot be damaged and get up on a different position.
  • the target is in correct position but cannot be damaged.
  • the target is in correct position and can be damaged and get up on the correct pos.

Hell even at the oasis festival during the joking tournament there was heavy desync on a server located at 30 meter on lan, so it is not a 100% connectivity issue hence

Yeah knockdown/float effect...dont have to be a tamer to be plague by that...

Incorrect pos is also not a tamer'special any kd/float for any a class can do that.(much more for float than kd)

I also said that this issue doesn't happen with other float/kd skills, at least the direction part doesn't. However it is true that the distance made by a float isnt always correctly synced, but floats never throw characters in front of you, not to the left or to the right, which is the main issue here with tamer grab. The issue we are talking about here is specific to tamer grabs, it doesn't happen with any other skill in the game as far as we know.

Also you say that this happens with any kd/float, then why does it not happen with ranger grab ? Ranger grab is kd and yet you will always land in front of the ranger after a grab. I talked about that in my last comment but it looks like you purposely avoided that part, or missed it.

Edited by Romanx

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Posted

I don't know how many times i will have to explain this, but this tamer grab issue has nothing to do with desync, read comments above.

Besides, using bolt+jolt after grab doesn't help to avoid the bug. If the bug happens, you will most likely hit the bolt+jolt because of the large aoe, but you will still miss your following skills with small hitboxes like echo.

But if the bug was fixed, our dmg/invulnerability potential after grab would be increased since we would be able to hit skills like echo all the time. By the way it is possible to make a grab work properly even if it's not a bound (ie ranger grab is knockdown and it has no issues of that kind). So they could most likely fix tamer grab if they wanted to.

I think there will always be players that believe in fairy tales.

Why you called a white colour -> black , when it is obvious white ????

1.) Tamer's grab issue is 100% connected with desync (lag).

2.) Grab itself is not the problem. The problem is the floating part of the skill. I don't have problems in grabbing anything that is moving or casting skills.( Including teleporting Maehwas and Zerkers ). That's ofcourse because I somehow understand how desync works. You can even see that in Korea there are still desync after floating. It is just greatly reduced because of better connection or better servers.

3.) Difference between float and knockdown is in the animation of the falling. On knockdown you just fall backward on the ground ( for everyone ). On floating you fall with parabola backward ( and the parabola and distance is different for each class ). You can check the difference between grabbing a Tamer and Maehwa.

4.) Bolt+Jolt fix the desync issue. I can clearly see it with my eyes how the laying target is reposition himself on the ground within 10-20m distance :D . Still you says it dosnt. Ok :D

Maybe NA server are worst than EU. I don't know.....

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Posted (edited)

 After thinking a bit i can see the whole picture.

 

=
Quoting Dobe" if your toon hitbox collide on top of the the target hitbox when your target hit the floor(and a few frame after)the target can disappear from your front to go on your back and take no damage when he is invisible atleast on pve maybe they patch it as i did not see this recently on pve and never experience it on pvp." end quoting
 

+

Quoting Dobe"DESYNC:

  • the target is showed on 1 place can/cannot be damaged and get up on a different position.

"end quoting

" after a knockdown if your toon hitbox collide on top of the the target hitbox when your target hit the floor(and a few frame after)the target can disappear from your front to go on your back and take no damage when he is invisible atleast on pve maybe they patch it as i did not see this recently on pve and never experience it on pvp "

Is something i experienced with a maehwa on pve  with that following combo:petalbloom(kd)>moonlight dash> sticky snowflake.

Moonlight dash and sticky snowflake both skill which  effectively move my toon on top of my pve target hitbox and then the game correct my target location to not be on top of my toon,target is invisible while the game is correcting the new pos of my target,with this,the picture is when 2 hitbox collide the game find it unacceptable and prioritize the toon being under cc for correcting position.

And here we are:

On grab when tamer perform upperkick when the target is stomped on the ground before the actual float,it look like a bound fx,if the skill does have a secret bound on it ²it explain what we see on this video and server having a messed target positionning before the desync plays if this is true then its an issue on the core game mechanic not only for tamer,if tamer grab dont have a "secret" bound then its an another story but on video's review  i think it is more the first option.

²)means target is bound on you and you are on top of your target then the game is trying to correct your target pos to be out of you.

Romanx quote:"Also you say that this happens with any kd/float, then why does it not happen with ranger grab ?"

I sometime heard on my vocals i am desyncing after a ranger grab so i dont know what you are talking about.

From my entire life of a maewha (from may 2016 with a little break on awk era(switched to war from war awk release date to  maewha awk realease date ) i saw many desync on my floats and knockdowns.

Edited by dobe
forum keep messing quoting part of my post

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Posted

All problems with grab or echo pierce come from low range n aoe. Desync is always in bdo and the person u see on ur screen isnt necessarily there on his screen and on server. Point is that some classes dont care about that because of big aoe or range and we suffer the most because of it. 

 

We can try discussing why exactly tamer grab is different from others but nothing will change the fact that Tamers are getting hit the hardest by huge desync issue. 

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