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Huge tamer grab issue (We need to make sure this gets fixed soon)

55 posts in this topic

Posted (edited)

All problems with grab or echo pierce come from low range n aoe. Desync is always in bdo and the person u see on ur screen isnt necessarily there on his screen and on server. Point is that some classes dont care about that because of big aoe or range and we suffer the most because of it. 

 

We can try discussing why exactly tamer grab is different from others but nothing will change the fact that Tamers are getting hit the hardest by huge desync issue. 

True. Tamer Grab aoe hitbox is small compared to other classes: Warrior , Ranger , Ninja etc... When you combine that with no super armor during grab move like other characters have -> It follows that Tamer's grab require a lot of precision to be applied when neatry all other classes can do it a lot easier...

Edited by rximmortal

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Posted (edited)

I think there will always be players that believe in fairy tales.

Why you called a white colour -> black , when it is obvious white ????

1.) Tamer's grab issue is 100% connected with desync (lag).

2.) Grab itself is not the problem. The problem is the floating part of the skill. I don't have problems in grabbing anything that is moving or casting skills.( Including teleporting Maehwas and Zerkers ). That's ofcourse because I somehow understand how desync works. You can even see that in Korea there are still desync after floating. It is just greatly reduced because of better connection or better servers.

3.) Difference between float and knockdown is in the animation of the falling. On knockdown you just fall backward on the ground ( for everyone ). On floating you fall with parabola backward ( and the parabola and distance is different for each class ). You can check the difference between grabbing a Tamer and Maehwa.

4.) Bolt+Jolt fix the desync issue. I can clearly see it with my eyes how the laying target is reposition himself on the ground within 10-20m distance :D . Still you says it dosnt. Ok :D

Maybe NA server are worst than EU. I don't know.....

 

1) Still not giving any arguments

2) Then why does it only happen with tamer grab and not other float skills ? Also this issue is still affecting koreans just as much (not less like you seem to believe) even tho they have better servers and/or less ping, which proves even more that the issue we are discussing here is not server related (already said this before but you ignored it).

3) Knockdown for sure doesn't have any issues regarding both distance and direction, and i never said otherwise (i was answering dobe since he said this kind of issue happens on kd too, which isn't true). Float has issues but only on the distance, not the direction of the throw, which is the main issue with grab here.

4) It doesn't fix it.

Look at this grab combo in the following video for example : https://youtu.be/OP4SIhJ9wq4?t=45

From 0:46 to 0:50, you can see the tamer doing grab>bj>echo>alround and yet the echo doesn't hit. You can also see that bj doesn't make the target reposition at all, the target only repositions itself when it gets up. You can look at other grab combos showed in this video and in about half of them, the grab bug happens, and bj never helps, the target always repositions itself when it gets up.

 

" after a knockdown if your toon hitbox collide on top of the the target hitbox when your target hit the floor(and a few frame after)the target can disappear from your front to go on your back and take no damage when he is invisible atleast on pve maybe they patch it as i did not see this recently on pve and never experience it on pvp "

Is something i experienced with a maehwa on pve  with that following combo:petalbloom(kd)>moonlight dash> sticky snowflake.

Moonlight dash and sticky snowflake both skill which  effectively move my toon on top of my pve target hitbox and then the game correct my target location to not be on top of my toon,target is invisible while the game is correcting the new pos of my target,with this,the picture is when 2 hitbox collide the game find it unacceptable and prioritize the toon being under cc for correcting position.

And here we are:

On grab when tamer perform upperkick when the target is stomped on the ground before the actual float,it look like a bound fx,if the skill does have a secret bound on it ²it explain what we see on this video and server having a messed target positionning before the desync plays if this is true then its an issue on the core game mechanic not only for tamer,if tamer grab dont have a "secret" bound then its an another story but on video's review  i think it is more the first option.

²)means target is bound on you and you are on top of your target then the game is trying to correct your target pos to be out of you.

The position issues you are talking about are pve only, and we are talking about a pvp issue here. Besides, even if this tamer grab issue was the same kind of problem, those pve issues you talk about are being fixed as bugs, which means they aren't related to servers or desync, but clearly bugs in the game code itself (or server code at least, but not due to lag). So even if the tamer grab issue was this kind of problem, it would be a bug which can be fixed, and not due to servers being terrible.

 

Romanx quote:"Also you say that this happens with any kd/float, then why does it not happen with ranger grab ?"

I sometime heard on my vocals i am desyncing after a ranger grab so i dont know what you are talking about.

Of course ranger grab can still desync, just like any grab can desync, even bound ones. But i was obviously talking about the issue we are discussing here (a target standing still is thrown in a random direction and random distance after grab). This specific issue doesn't happen with ranger grab.

 

Note : Already said this in comments above, but i am only talking about this very specific tamer issue when i say it's not desync. I don't mean that tamer grab doesn't have desync issues, it does have that too ofc, but other classes have the same desync issues on their grab, so this is nothing specific to tamers and it can't be fixed as a bug but only if they do something with lag in general. However tamer is the only class with the grab issue showed in my videos, and since it's a bug, and not server related, it can be fixed.

Why i want this tamer grab bug to be fixed is because added on top of desync and the lack of superarmor on tamers grab, it makes it very annoying to use. If you grab, you take the risk to get cced while doing it, and then even if it hits, you have to hope for it to not desync, but then even if it doesn't desync at all, it can still bug and make you miss half of your dmg afterwards, that's too many chances for the game to ----- you over when you try to grab someone.

If they would at least fix the grab issue showed in my videos, we would almost be on the same state as other classes when it comes to grab (except the lack of superarmor, but fairly certain that's intended and not a bug).

Edited by Romanx

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Posted

Still not giving any arguments

I cant give any arguments because neither I , either anyone else can say with 100% certainty why this problem occurs.

But. What I can say is that.

Since long ago , I found ways to deal with the desync in the game. Yes it does not work always , but in most of the cases. I have many posts about it and about many other tamer stuffs related. I guess it is connected to forum's nature to not get any positive feedbacks at the forums. But I received many such in game on personal massage. At least I know I helped some people to get better :) .

I do not know with 100% certain if my theory about grab and desync and everything is right. But I never ever seen a situation at the game which I cannot explain. Being able to understand all situations I had seen so far helps me to enjoy the game , the way it mean to be enjoyed. 

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Posted (edited)

[snip]...Note : Already said this in comments above, but i am only talking about this very specific tamer issue when i say it's not desync. I don't mean that tamer grab doesn't have desync issues, it does have that too ofc, but other classes have the same desync issues on their grab, so this is nothing specific to tamers and it can't be fixed as a bug but only if they do something with lag in general. However tamer is the only class with the grab issue showed in my videos, and since it's a bug, and not server related, it can be fixed.[snip]...

Desync and bugs aren't mutually exclusive. This situation is both. Copypasting what I wrote on page 2:

The server placed the zerker in a location the grab never would. It ignored client-side information from either party, and made crap up to resolve the situation. I've experienced something similar when a forward dodge led to me teleporting around the map. These weird interactions aren't directly from desyncs, they are created by the terrible way the server deals with them.

This is a float issue like RX said (I'll add that it also affects aerial maneuvers). We have the only grab that floats, so this type of desync will only affect our class.  However, it is a bug in the code that allows the game to make up positions when it loses track of people in the air.

It is fixable without upgrading the servers. They need to adjust the coding for skills that alter position so the destination must be within a specific area. Then if the game desyncs the target is brought to a place they actually could have been.

Edited by Kentigem

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Posted (edited)

 

3) Knockdown for sure doesn't have any issues regarding both distance and direction, and i never said otherwise (i was answering dobe since he said this kind of issue happens on kd too, which isn't true). Float has issues but only on the distance, not the direction of the throw, which is the main issue with grab here.

 

The position issues you are talking about are pve only, and we are talking about a pvp issue here. Besides, even if this tamer grab issue was the same kind of problem, those pve issues you talk about are being fixed as bugs, which means they aren't related to servers or desync, but clearly bugs in the game code itself (or server code at least, but not due to lag). So even if the tamer grab issue was this kind of problem, it would be a bug which can be fixed, and not due to servers being terrible.

 

 but other classes have the same desync issues on their grab, so this is nothing specific to tamers

 

The float and kd in itself when desyncing  will show you the quoted part below

  • he target switch back and forth on 2 different position.
  • the target is showed on 1 place can/cannot be damaged and get up on a different position.
  • the target is in correct position but cannot be damaged.
  • the target is in correct position and can be damaged and get up on the correct pos.

And i already said you have way less chance to see kd desync than float desync,maybe the kd desync i saw because i have mid/bad connection overall but a this rate it would be the same for the bound ?But no i didnt see any bound desyncing,the fact is when you stun a target who is out of sync you can "correct" his position by using a grab with bound before desyncplays and avoiding the desync part in your end,but most of the time the atker will not see if the target is desync if he can land a stun on him before any downstate....

You said on the op vids that distance and direction is random...Did you ever experienced a grab floating going to your right?if you ever experienced it  the so "pve specific"i was refering to is not "only pve" issues,fact is the hitbox of your toon cannot/should not be on top of another toon's hitbox and when im saying "on top" it means same exact coordinates x,y,z,if 2 toons have overlapping hitbox 1 of them will be corrected by sliding on the ground.

1st video 0.03 to 0.04 look on slowmo,upperkick make your target bounce on tamer's left side a bit on the tamer's toon hitbox,game make crap up to resolve the pos as kentigem said then float plays  and desync after float.It show that the client made crap up to resolve the target pos on bouncing and then telling the server that tamer toon did this to the other toon which is located at x,y,z then float animation plays,float anim is always the same(target launching on air before lying on the ground inf front of your toon),server dont handle animation it just transform the new coordinates so when the floating animation is playing you are already and same for your target desyncing.Grab float initial position by itself dont have any random on it.

The 2nd vids shows the float's distance is not the same  each time tamer do grab  but on each grab tamer are not on the same place means that floating distance lies with the geodata and nothing wrong on the float distance itself.

In the end it is not so random...outcome maybe predict in the 2 first videos cases.

Edited by dobe

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