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FAQ - The New World

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Posted

 

That's like saying would shovel exploiting not be an issue if you couldn't dig up hard/sharps. The main source of the issue is digging up sharp/hards for minimal to zero effort for big money gains.

The same can be said about welfare hand outs on other servers. You're not having an issue because you're not actually able to do anything with that income upon other servers. The moment the warehouses get combined you'll be then running into issues with what was happening with digging. People getting a huge advantage for skirting along the edges of the system and manipulating in game mechanics to their advantage.

The shovel exploit would be an issue regardless as you're gaining resources without consuming energy, which was a confirmed exploit as opposed to the current topic of discussion. If the server merge wasn't happening, you would have three different families on three different servers that each received the applicable rewards. This is NOT people working out a way to get around some system to somehow exploit the game in an unintended manner, this is a case of people either playing legitimately on more than one server, and receiving the rewards as such, and people who had the foresight to see a potential merger incoming, and possibly the ability to carry items over. The fact is, there's no possible way for you to determine if this will have a major impact on the game as you don't have access to the numbers behind the scenes however, it's definitely easy to determine that one is not like the other.

I agree that there's a very small minority of people that actively played upon multiple servers. I'm sure the group of legit people playing upon multiple servers is so small that this could easily be handed upon a case by case basis with helpdesk.

The main crux of the problem here is that people are receiving 3x the 'one time' rewards that they're supposed to have obtained. This is clearly unintended use of game mechanics. I don't see the point in rewarding people for behaviour that kakao obviously was trying to avoid. Remember they attempted to implement a fix to prevent people from obtaining rewards upon multiple servers but it ended up being buggy so they trashed the idea.

Ah, so the issue is with one time rewards? If so, carry on.

Also, the fix is exactly what I fear will come out of this; More issues. The merge itself is a major undertaking, and working towards this objective will likely have it's issues however, tack on the goal of somehow working and purge the correct accounts of items on top of the merge, will simply lead to excessive complication.

If the issue is multiple one time rewards, wouldn't the easiest solution that will make everyone happy simply be to issue extra one time rewards for people?

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Posted (edited)

The shovel exploit would be an issue regardless as you're gaining resources without consuming energy, which was a confirmed exploit as opposed to the current topic of discussion. If the server merge wasn't happening, you would have three different families on three different servers that each received the applicable rewards. This is NOT people working out a way to get around some system to somehow exploit the game in an unintended manner, this is a case of people either playing legitimately on more than one server, and receiving the rewards as such, and people who had the foresight to see a potential merger incoming, and possibly the ability to carry items over. The fact is, there's no possible way for you to determine if this will have a major impact on the game as you don't have access to the numbers behind the scenes however, it's definitely easy to determine that one is not like the other.

We seem to be simply going around in circles here. The shovel exploit is unintended use of game mechanics. Getting 3x 'one time rewards' for the hope of server mergers is once again, unintended use of game mechanics. You can call it whatever you want but its still using mechanics not intended inside the game. One time rewards are supposed to be 'one time' there's no if's and's or but's about it.

Ah, so the issue is with one time rewards? If so, carry on.
Also, the fix is exactly what I fear will come out of this; More issues. The merge itself is a major undertaking, and working towards this objective will likely have it's issues however, tack on the goal of somehow working and purge the correct accounts of items on top of the merge, will simply lead to excessive complication.

If the issue is multiple one time rewards, wouldn't the easiest solution that will make everyone happy simply be to issue extra one time rewards for people?

Yes this 'would' work but we're talking about hundreds if not thousands of built up rewards. Each 1 loyalty event, each and every welfare handout would have to be added to people that didn't already receive their bonus ones from other servers. This would cause imo even more complications because you'll need to track back and figure who received what rewards upon other servers.

Edited by DrBoo
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Posted

1 - We seem to be simply going around in circles here. The shovel exploit is unintended use of game mechanics. Getting 3x 'one time rewards' for the hope of server mergers is once again, unintended use of game mechanics. You can call it whatever you want but its still using mechanics not intended inside the game. One time rewards are supposed to be 'one time' there's no if's and's or but's about it.

2 - Yes this 'would' work but we're talking about hundreds if not thousands of built up rewards. Each 1 loyalty event, each and every welfare handout would have to be added to people that didn't already receive their bonus ones from other servers. This would cause imo even more complications because you'll need to track back and figure who received what rewards upon other servers.

Point 1 - They're simply not the same thing. Shoveling required explicitly setting up your inventory in a manner that created a buffer overflow, and allowed people to gather without the consumption of energy, which is absolutely unintended and easily more detrimental to the game as opposed to the current predicament. Additionally, people found exploiting the digging/energy bug often paired macros (which are against the ToS) that would self heal every 5-10 seconds so as to avoid heatstroke death. Logging in on multiple characters on different worlds on the off chance that there MIGHT be a merger at some point is not exploiting game mechanics.

Point 2 - You're correct in that it would be a lot of work however, wouldn't it be the same situation and require that same effort to remove said items from people's accounts? Keep in mind, we have to assume that we don't know the specific numbers of people whom had characters on different worlds or login rewards.

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Posted

How can collecting new/returning player rewards on multiple servers on an active account be intended? I know you're claiming everyone had the same chance to do it because it's been known from KR, but so has the shovel exploit and you still fixed that issue despite the fact that anyone could've used it with some research. Are you going to recover their accounts too because it's an advantage that people could've used as well?

 

I really hope you consider this. I don't get how making alts on other servers to grab rewards can actually be an intended and healthy mechanic that you guys would support.

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Posted

Point 1 - They're simply not the same thing. Shoveling required explicitly setting up your inventory in a manner that created a buffer overflow, and allowed people to gather without the consumption of energy, which is absolutely unintended and easily more detrimental to the game as opposed to the current predicament. Additionally, people found exploiting the digging/energy bug often paired macros (which are against the ToS) that would self heal every 5-10 seconds so as to avoid heatstroke death. Logging in on multiple characters on different worlds on the off chance that there MIGHT be a merger at some point is not exploiting game mechanics.
Point 2 - You're correct in that it would be a lot of work however, wouldn't it be the same situation and require that same effort to remove said items from people's accounts? Keep in mind, we have to assume that we don't know the specific numbers of people whom had characters on different worlds or login rewards.

Points 1. That's where we disagree. Playing legit upon multiple servers is one thing, intentionally logging into other servers primarily or 'only' for the intention of acquiring welfare handouts (meant to help catch up new players) is completely different. The intended use of the shovel is to afk dig in the desert. Using macros and filling your inventory is simply side effects people decided to use to help exploit this mechanic for unintended gains. the intended use of one time welfare handouts are to help catch up new players by giving them a small boost. Players logging into other servers only for the reason to pick up one time reward welfare handouts is simply a side effect people decided to use to help exploit the mechanic for unintended gains (when server mergers came, which was destined to happen sooner or later).

Point 2. Its an issue kakao(daum) brought upon themselves that needs to be addressed. They allowed people to pickup multiple one time rewards, they provided 3 independent servers then proceeded to allow handouts to people without any restrictions, knowing they were going to merge the servers. This might be a bunch of extra work but it all could have simply been prevented with some pre-planning from the company.

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Posted

You failed to mention the most important part,

What happens to character names if 2 people have the same one?

who gets priority?

I think names are across all servers. Anyone else get that impression?

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Posted

So many whiny entitled little crybabies on this forum.   Oh boo hooo, someone who put in more effort will get stuff you didn't.  Guess what... even without the rewards from those other two servers, the same people that did will always end up with more stuff than you because you are are too lazy to put in the effort.  Instead you cry how unfair it is.  Grow up.  Here's a clue... the game has been out in 3 other regions before us, do some damn research if you want to not keep falling behind.  I bet none of you bought up super cheap imperial foods and potions before imperials were added to our version either.   People were selling some of that stuff for bare minimum... easy money.  Oops... now you're probably going to go make a post crying how unfair it was people bought items no one wanted prior to the imperials...and how you should be given stuff for doing nothing or others should have stuff taken away huh?

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Posted

It is actually the very definition of exploit.  

The word exploit does not mean "hack" or "cheat".  Google can help you if you're still confused.

No because as I've already explained, that term used in the gaming world means something variably different. We use it in gaming to mean the manipulation or destruction of in game mechanics in order to bypass normal gameplay to obtain advantage. You know this. You can be as technical as you want to be. It will not matter. Creating a character on another server is not, nor has it ever been in ANY mmo, an exploit. The GMs have already stated as such. If you want to get pissed off, then you should be mad at the company for not making the rewards account based or region based. That was their mistake. But players creating toons on other servers for whatever reason that is within clearance of the ToS, regardless if you approve of that use or not, is legal and not an exploit of the game itself. This doesn't fall on them at all.

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Posted

So many whiny entitled little crybabies on this forum.   Oh boo hooo, someone who put in more effort will get stuff you didn't.  Guess what... even without the rewards from those other two servers, the same people that did will always end up with more stuff than you because you are are too lazy to put in the effort.  Instead you cry how unfair it is.  Grow up.  Here's a clue... the game has been out in 3 other regions before us, do some damn research if you want to not keep falling behind.  I bet none of you bought up super cheap imperial foods and potions before imperials were added to our version either.   People were selling some of that stuff for bare minimum... easy money.  Oops... now you're probably going to go make a post crying how unfair it was people bought items no one wanted prior to the imperials...and how you should be given stuff for doing nothing or others should have stuff taken away huh?

Obvious troll is obvious.

Anyways for the sake you're actually looking for a discussion. Think about it like this, shoveling was a completely legit use of the gameplay. People found a way to break that intended use for their personal gain. Now lets look at the servers, there's 3 servers you can play upon any server or all three if you wish. Nothing wrong with that its intended use of game mechanics. Now what makes this into an issue is that people have been abusing the system by simply logging into other servers 'only' to pickup one time rewards. This is no longer intended use of game mechanics, why should people be rewarded for abusing the system?

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Posted

@GM_Dew

Cant you guys just merge banks only for people with above X playtime on alt servers b4 merge announced?

Pretty sure it shouldnt be hard to filter out people who only logged for loyalty+attendance+dice game.

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Hmm, I don't know.  I'm personally gutted that there's a server merge.  I guess I knew deep down it might happen eventually, but I LIKE having different servers, and I LIKE having separate characters on all of them.  I've given each "world" a different theme, goal and story, and I enjoy the rewards on them but don't feel the need to have more.

I personally didn't make characters on other servers in order to exploit anything.  I started because I am indecisive and an altoholic, two things that I need help with, clearly.  I ran out of space on my first server, but wasn't done experimenting, so I expanded onto another.  I didn't mind that there wasn't shared progress.  Would have been nice but it was also nice sometimes just starting afresh.

Yes, it ended up that I got login rewards for a few events on more than one server, but I don't want these all merged.  Would it benefit me?  Maybe, strictly on paper.  But I actually would pick the new account route people have suggested here over that.  I want my acquired wealth on one server to stay with that server.  I want my Kunoichi on Alustin to be separate from my Kunoichi on Croxus to my Kunoichi on Uno, etc.  I play them as individual characters, I've got different skill combinations and profession training on each of them.  But I don't want or need 3 Kunoichis on one account, nor do I want to delete one with high cooking skill because I don't need a double, and nor do I want to delete any of them because I've spent real money on all of them kitting them out.  It is just a hassle to me.

I don't care if I have 6 pieces of boss armor - I haven't got the resources to actually upgrade 6 pieces.  And I spent a lot of the rewards individually gearing different characters, only to find I could have just geared one on one server then swapped out their gear to an alt?  The total amount of monetary gain, even were I to sell everything doesn't even amount to billions really - I didn't catch every event and I am really unlucky in all RNG boxes.  Some guy rolled 20 golden backpacks from the Black Spirit board, huh?  Lucky.  I rolled one across 5 servers.

Anyway, sorry to ramble.  I'd prefer no merge at all.  I choose not to play on certain servers and I choose to play on others for very particular reasons.  But it is what it is.  If given the choice, I would prefer to be given new accounts for each of my servers, even if that means having to juggle 5 accounts going forwards.  I would like to keep everything separate without losing anything.  The only issue with that is that I'd lose my family name on 4 accounts, which is sad but I would definitely get over that :) But I doubt Kakao or PA would sanction the creation of multiple accounts suddenly.

Anyway, here's one vote from someone who "gains" who would prefer things stay separate.  NO ONE loses that way.  Or, at least, loss is kept to a minimum.

Did GM_Dew leave?  The option to tag doesn't appear anymore for me ... :( I just wanted to thank Dew for being here and communicating.  It's a tough job, particularly when you aren't allowed to post anything opinionated and are limited with what you are allowed to say.  Thank you anyway, hope you see this.  And to the others, please do consider this - I know that ultimately, what you say goes, and I will continue to enjoy this beautiful game regardless, but I think there's a way to appease everyone here.

P.S. My main gripe, if I have to really complain about the merge is that I think we should get 18 base free character slots.  I understand though, that this would make the use of alts and their energy benefits ridiculous, so 12 it is.  Sad, but there it is.  I shall have to delete some lovely characters.

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Posted (edited)

I felt the need to weigh in on this. I claimed my attendance rewards only on the server I play on.

Points 1. That's where we disagree. Playing legit upon multiple servers is one thing, intentionally logging into other servers primarily or 'only' for the intention of acquiring welfare handouts (meant to help catch up new players) is completely different. The intended use of the shovel is to afk dig in the desert. Using macros and filling your inventory is simply side effects people decided to use to help exploit this mechanic for unintended gains. the intended use of one time welfare handouts are to help catch up new players by giving them a small boost. Players logging into other servers only for the reason to pick up one time reward welfare handouts is simply a side effect people decided to use to help exploit the mechanic for unintended gains (when server mergers came, which was destined to happen sooner or later).

So, for one, the intended use of the shovel is as a digging tool. Not an AFK one, because the desert is a hostile environment and you'll quickly die. If you were to do a lot of digging in an attended manner so as to avoid getting killed, it could be profitable similar to other kinds of gathering. Separate to the actual exploit, people were using macros to violate the rules of the game in order to let their characters survive without being at the computer.

Second, the circumstance of the exploit was as follows: 1) gathering was still possible when your inventory was full. If you gathered something that was stackable and you already were carrying you would spend a point of Energy and gain that item. If you gathered anything else, you did not lose any Energy and the result was lost. End result being that if someone had for instance a pool of 200 Energy they could set themselves up to go out and eventually dig up 200 Hard or Sharp shards for that energy. Somewhere between 200 or infinite, actually, since I imagine they're not common drops and there was still energy regen. This was definitively an exploit, even without taking into consideration the players that used macros to do it while AFK.

Point 2. Its an issue kakao(daum) brought upon themselves that needs to be addressed. They allowed people to pickup multiple one time rewards, they provided 3 independent servers then proceeded to allow handouts to people without any restrictions, knowing they were going to merge the servers. This might be a bunch of extra work but it all could have simply been prevented with some pre-planning from the company.

Two different ways to look at this as well.

1) If the rewards were claimable once per server instead of once per account, and your claim that the server merge was known about in advance is true, doesn't that imply that Kakao doesn't view this as a problem?

2) Let's flip the situation around. Suppose you have three very stubborn friends that don't get along. You bought BDO to play with them, but it turns out all three are on different servers. So after thinking about it you decide you'll split your playtime equally between all three people. Each server is a totally separate "world" in this scenario. Doesn't it make sense that you should be able to claim the reward for new explorers, or the reward for daily attendance, on each server simultaneously?

----

Like I said before, I only played one server and I don't stand to gain any "extra" items from the attendance reward or the new/returning explorer events. Am I disappointed, in hindsight, that I didn't spend the small amount of time to claim those rewards on other servers, because I now know that I could have benefited from it? Absolutely. But that doesn't mean it's unfair that there are people who are going to benefit. If I had been dedicated enough to the game to keep close track of the KR ecosystem, I might have chosen to spend time on other servers for that purpose. But I didn't.

Everyone has the opportunity between now and the merge to take advantage of black spirit adventures, daily loyalty, and the lauren family gift box event on other servers, to benefit their "main" characters after the merge. For full effect, you're looking at between 9 and 15 daily hourly checkins on the game. That's not a trivial amount of commitment. If you have that kind of time, and you decide it's more advantageous to spend it waiting around for event rewards on other servers instead of doing something active on your "main", then maybe that's worth doing in your case. I don't see any reason for the vast minority of players who may get an advantage because of months-old event rewards being merged to be penalized for it.

Edited by Domirade

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Posted

 
I had never seen such a crybaby community lol

 

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Posted

I felt the need to weigh in on this. I claimed my attendance rewards only on the server I play on.

So, for one, the intended use of the shovel is as a digging tool. Not an AFK one, because the desert is a hostile environment and you'll quickly die. If you were to do a lot of digging in an attended manner so as to avoid getting killed, it could be profitable similar to other kinds of gathering. Separate to the actual exploit, people were using macros to violate the rules of the game in order to let their characters survive without being at the computer.

Second, the circumstance of the exploit was as follows: 1) gathering was still possible when your inventory was full. If you gathered something that was stackable and you already were carrying you would spend a point of Energy and gain that item. If you gathered anything else, you did not lose any Energy and the result was lost. End result being that if someone had for instance a pool of 200 Energy they could set themselves up to go out and eventually dig up 200 Hard or Sharp shards for that energy. Somewhere between 200 or infinite, actually, since I imagine they're not common drops and there was still energy regen. This was definitively an exploit, even without taking into consideration the players that used macros to do it while AFK.

Two different ways to look at this as well.

1) If the rewards were claimable once per server instead of once per account, and your claim that the server merge was known about in advance is true, doesn't that imply that Kakao doesn't view this as a problem?

2) Let's flip the situation around. Suppose you have three very stubborn friends that don't get along. You bought BDO to play with them, but it turns out all three are on different servers. So after thinking about it you decide you'll split your playtime equally between all three people. Each server is a totally separate "world" in this scenario. Doesn't it make sense that you should be able to claim the reward for new explorers, or the reward for daily attendance, on each server simultaneously?

----

Like I said before, I only played one server and I don't stand to gain any "extra" items from the attendance reward or the new/returning explorer events. Am I disappointed, in hindsight, that I didn't spend the small amount of time to claim those rewards on other servers, because I now know that I could have benefited from it? Absolutely. But that doesn't mean it's unfair that there are people who are going to benefit. If I had been dedicated enough to the game to keep close track of the KR ecosystem, I might have chosen to spend time on other servers for that purpose. But I didn't.

Everyone has the opportunity between now and the merge to take advantage of black spirit adventures, daily loyalty, and the lauren family gift box event on other servers, to benefit their "main" characters after the merge. For full effect, you're looking at between 9 and 15 daily hourly checkins on the game. That's not a trivial amount of commitment.

For your first point the shoveling not using energy further proves my point that it was unintended use of game mechanics, also I don't see what bearing this has upon the discussion we both agree shoveling was a perfectly acceptable use until people figured a way to manipulate it for their benefit. 

For the second point I'd like to point out that Kakao(daum) attempted to prevent people from gathering rewards upon multiple servers but had to remove that after a brief time because it was causing further issues and not allowing people to pickup one at all. This show that the company did not intend or want people pickup up rewards more then once. So if people intentionally logged into multiple servers only for the purpose of picking up additional one time rewards for merger, how does that make it any different then shoveling? Its taking an intended game mechanic and manipulating it for unintended gains.

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Here here .

Crying-baby.gif

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Posted (edited)

i wish you guys lifted the region locking, currently i have to use VPN to play because im temporarily in another country, which means i rarely ever get to play and its a huge pain in the butt to even log in

Edited by Jackal

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Posted

Everyone has the opportunity between now and the merge to take advantage of black spirit adventures, daily loyalty, and the lauren family gift box event on other servers, to benefit their "main" characters after the merge. For full effect, you're looking at between 9 and 15 daily hourly checkins on the game. That's not a trivial amount of commitment. If you have that kind of time, and you decide it's more advantageous to spend it waiting around for event rewards on other servers instead of doing something active on your "main", then maybe that's worth doing in your case. I don't see any reason for the vast minority of players who may get an advantage because of months-old event rewards being merged to be penalized for it.

To be honest, if ALL rewards would work this way and that you have to spent at least 5 hours on every server to get them, i would say "yes let them keep everything" but they could get all other rewards by just logging in for a minute ...

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Merge, we all knew it was going to happen. I think they did a good job with the FAQ, and actually took time to answer many of the questions you would have with this merge.

And still, everyone is getting mad and furious.....

 

 

 

 

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You've got to be kidding me. Merging warehouses? Why the hell would you do that? People literally just logged on to other servers to get rewards every day. Could I have done that? Sure. But this is a video game - I am playing to have fun! Logging onto other servers every day just to collect items that may get transferred at some point is not a fun game mechanic. 

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Posted (edited)

Here here .

Crying-baby.gif

That baby has tears of joy and deep connection with its caretaker as she is singing to him. Don't you dare compare D:

Edited by Whateer

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@GM_Dew

Really appreciate your care for us. It's clear to understand the complaint over merging daily attendance reward/loyalty. Because people care about items and the items are supposed to be "earned" not "tricked" right? The daily attendance reward should be viewed as an incidental reward to players' everyday effort. The nominal time that you have to stay online and become eligible to claim reward is a kindness to people who sometimes are busy in some days and just log in then AFK right? 

 

Based on above, some people merely server hop to get 3 times of the reward is really an abuse of kindness right? I think it's commonly accepted that if someone, who spend 3 times the effort playing over 3 servers for some reason, then we are fine. But it's like nominal effort (switching servers) then still 3 times the reward which become absurdly disturbing to many of us.

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12 free slots.  Refund pearls for people who bought extra slots.  Let people who cheesed the system keep their extra crap.  Least effort for the devs, therefore less chance of bugs.  Effort (even effort spent to cheese the system) isn't wasted.  And I get to buy pets with my extra pearls.

 

Everyone wins.  

 

The best "even solution" would be just to give everyone 3x event and loyalty rewards.  Don't think it would matter much in the long run.  Would spike interest for old players to return.   And I don't have to stress about them deleting stuff that might nuke my crap even though I'm not even involved.

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@GM_Dew

Don't let the whiners/complainers get to you. (Whiners post more than people who are satisfied anyways.)

They're just complaining that they didn't bother to do any research, and now they're trying to influence you to cover up their laziness.

 

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Pinkfoxxe7351

 

Pinkfoxxe7351

You are so right.

I spent all yesterday evening and today running all characters to auction houses and armourers to extract stones and riding horse to stables ( I had loads).

I've had to write a list of all the items I'm gonna lose so I can put in a ticket (with no firm policy in place to say what will happen about real world cash spent on cossies) when this fiasco is over. 

I've lost a fortune at the auction house selling gear cheap, horses cheap, lost dyes I've used on gear and lost about 3-400 levels of grinding and adventuring. I'm sick as a puppy right now. I suspect half the people moaning on these forums have brought something I've sold on the cheap. 

Seventeen of my characters all stand waiting for deletion with nothing but their costumes on. All the effort building them up and playing them is totally wasted!

Of course I got the rewards but that wasn't the reason for starting characters on multiple servers and I've played all my characters - a LOT.

Gutted - absolutely gutted and I've vowed that I will not spend another penny of my hard earned readies on this game. I suspect I'll receive pearls instead of my actual cash back which is disgraceful. And I suspect my time I spent will not be rewarded or compensated in any way.

I'd happily keep three accounts if I could keep all of my alts even now, even if I had to outfit them all again. Just so you know there's more to one side of this coin.

If you hear someone crying all the way to the bank - that'll be me.

Sob, chokes, tries to hold it all in - fails miserably and crumbles.

Sorry about the writing in bold - problem with the font wouldn't let me change it.

 

 

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Posted (edited)

1.WE paid for the game

2.They gave us 3 servers to play on

3.some of us played on them for what ever reason maybe had other friends playing on them (remember they gave us 3 servers to play on not pick one and go )

4.So what ever you gained from playing on the 3 severs you paid to play on you should keep

5. Get over it and quit your whining 

Edited by Catfish
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