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Why The Game Lost So Many Players

127 posts in this topic

Posted

Justwanted to add, that GW2 is P2W as well.

And due to the combat, I think it take less skills, but that's just my opinion.

 

Everyone is not equal in Spvp, still need to unlock amulets and runes.. You can get the fairly easy, but everyone is not equal.

 

Tbh I think BDO is in a good spot. It is not for everyone, and those have mostly quit anyway, have no idea why they try to get more people to follow them though.

I just returned after a break, and feel like the game have wastely improved. There is alot of content, so take your sweet time.

You can change skills on the fly.

Easier to grind at lowlvl <56

But still need a better CPU for the bosses :)

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Posted (edited)

Play MMO

Complain about RNG.

Ok.

Edited by Hissis
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Posted (edited)

So you are telling me I can join GW2 now and we on same level from day 1 as someone who played 1000 hours? No you can not, so not fair, no mmo is fair and equal.

Its not like that you are going to proove what you are trying to proove.

In like ~3weeks, yeah on a gear lvl you can be on the same lvl as someone playing since 2years. At least for one build and one character.

 

It look very fair to me, unlike BDO and his dumb RNG gear powercreep

 

fail. ( again )

Edited by woots
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Posted

Another person that thinks they can get a tri ogre ring with only 4 rings

 

luck has very little to do with things in the long run. 

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Posted (edited)

Its not like that you are going to proove what you are trying to proove.

In like ~3weeks, yeah on a gear lvl you can be on the same lvl as someone playing since 2years. At least for one build and one character.

 

It look very fair to me, unlike BDO and his dumb RNG gear powercreep

 

fail. ( again )

Life isn't fair.. get over it.  Only people who demand fairness in everything are people who wallow in mediocrity.

Like the saying that good is the enemy of perfect. You probably don't get that.

I'm sorry you were told that everyone was created equally and believed it when you have evidence to the contrary every single day. Unless you are trying to convince me that people are born with diseases, mental challenges, missing body parts, etc.. are all equal?

Oh ya we are all born with the same exact IQ and Athletic Skill?!

If you wan to play a fair game chess exists for a reason....Even that's not fair as someone has to go first and someone has to go second... hm.. 

Please find me something in life that is fair and I will show you a conspiracy, flat out lies, etc... It just doesn't exist.

Edited by Pavo
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Posted

Where the hell did this idea come from that NO MMO game is ever balanced or fair? Sure, there are ups and downs (see: WoW), but it is significantly less common to see a system designed around unfair advantages (see: BDO, where I use the term unfair to mean a difference that the disadvantaged player is practically unable to overcome) than one that tries to be fair and stumbles once in a while.


Seriously, did you all ONLY play Lineage before this? WTF.

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Posted

Enchanting Weapon/Armor is easy. For Enchanting Accessories just use Cron Stones... Yeah its rly hard to enchant...

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Posted (edited)

Where the hell did this idea come from that NO MMO game is ever balanced or fair? Sure, there are ups and downs (see: WoW), but it is significantly less common to see a system designed around unfair advantages (see: BDO, where I use the term unfair to mean a difference that the disadvantaged player is practically unable to overcome) than one that tries to be fair and stumbles once in a while.


Seriously, did you all ONLY play Lineage before this? WTF.

But this game has a gear treadmill that doesn't use standardized stats. Even fair MMO's had/ have their problems.

GW1 had standardized gear, stats, etc. it still had it's issues.

The fact is you cannot have a balanced game/ fair game unless you make everyone use the same exact class/ skills/ gear/ etc.

People seem to have forgotten that not all classes have to be equal 1v1 compared to 5v5 compared to 8v8, etc... Some classes are supposed to play support, some tank, some damage, some snipers, etc..

There is no such thing as a fair/ balanced game. Never will be.  

If you want this, Chess is the closest thing we have... PERIOD.

Or by all means please name me a game/ activity that is fair/ balanced for all at all times... shit even chess isn't fair as you have philosophical arguments whether going first or last is better or worse.

We want things to have same rules for all, same boundaries, same standards, etc.. even than people always push the boundaries. Look at any professions sports as a prime example and even that falls short.

Edited by Pavo

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Posted

 

Or by all means please name me a game/ activity that is fair/ balanced for all at all times... shit even chess isn't fair as you have philosophical arguments whether going first or last is better or worse.

Counter Strike. Everyone has access to the same weapons, barring one exclusive and one default pistol (and there is a compelling argument that the starting pistols are different in a fair way). I understand this is not an MMO, but you keep throwing chess in there so we can run with this too.

Players developed your "some classes are support..." system in this game all on their own. The players will pool their cash to one player so he can buy a Big Gun and they all take up their other positions - but they did this without the game telling them "hey your class is a bag of shit, so you might as well donate to Larry over there". Hell, at halftime in a Counter Strike match, all the players LOSE all their money and reset to the default so it becomes a close game again. I think when you say "The fact is you cannot have a balanced game/ fair game unless you make everyone use the same exact class/ skills/ gear/ etc." shows that you are not thinking outside of the box of this style of game. The two teams here have different options, different positions, different objectives - but because Counter Strike is a largely skill-driven competition, these things are minor blips in the generally fair matchup. The opposite of Gear Grinders.

 

Sure, GW1 had issues, but it was a closer attempt at a RELATIVELY fair experience than BDO, where the top position player can frag his way to higher positions (guilds too). That's what I don't get - do you not see the difference between approaching fair and running the hell away from it? I'm not even saying BDO should be anything different than what it is, but holy ----- is it stupid to see people trumpeting over and over again that nothing is ever fair and life isn't fair and the Olympics aren't fair so BDO should be as unfair as possible because that's how the planet spins.

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Why The Game Lost So Many Players ?

 

Where? I dont see Playe lost

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Counter Strike. Everyone has access to the same weapons, barring one exclusive and one default pistol (and there is a compelling argument that the starting pistols are different in a fair way). I understand this is not an MMO, but you keep throwing chess in there so we can run with this too.

Players developed your "some classes are support..." system in this game all on their own. The players will pool their cash to one player so he can buy a Big Gun and they all take up their other positions - but they did this without the game telling them "hey your class is a bag of shit, so you might as well donate to Larry over there". Hell, at halftime in a Counter Strike match, all the players LOSE all their money and reset to the default so it becomes a close game again. I think when you say "The fact is you cannot have a balanced game/ fair game unless you make everyone use the same exact class/ skills/ gear/ etc." shows that you are not thinking outside of the box of this style of game. The two teams here have different options, different positions, different objectives - but because Counter Strike is a largely skill-driven competition, these things are minor blips in the generally fair matchup. The opposite of Gear Grinders.

 

Sure, GW1 had issues, but it was a closer attempt at a RELATIVELY fair experience than BDO, where the top position player can frag his way to higher positions (guilds too). That's what I don't get - do you not see the difference between approaching fair and running the hell away from it? I'm not even saying BDO should be anything different than what it is, but holy ----- is it stupid to see people trumpeting over and over again that nothing is ever fair and life isn't fair and the Olympics aren't fair so BDO should be as unfair as possible because that's how the planet spins.

You see, even you have to admit it comes close, but it's never fully fair or balanced. I do get what you are saying though, I just think the idea is easier than the implementation if that makes sense.

I just don't understand why people want different classes but than magically want it all to be fair/ balanced. (not directly aimed at you)

Also this isn't an esports game. We have gear progression and that implies gear gaps.

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Posted

It's a -----ing Korean game

 

most of their games have HUGE elements of rng, some far worse then BDO

 

the game isn't meant for everyone and if it's not for you or you can't enjoy it as it was intended to be the I would strongly consider finding a game better suited to your play style 

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Posted

 

maxresdefault.jpg

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Ohhh god you are one of those players, HAHAHAHA :D Ranger is so OP bla. bla bla... I keep hearing that, yet I wreak every single ranger I see even with their awakening - and I am a class without awakening. You really really have no idea how things work. Please for the love of god show me your level, gear, stats etc. so I can make a good picture of how pleb you are :D Git gud ffs you nub.

How about you show off a screenshot of your character stats and level, i bet youre lvl 58-60 with full TRI or higher?

This game needs seriously no skill in pvp and even lesser in pve. all that matters is your items and level.  for pvp a simple level advantage of 2 or maybe 3 levels is enough to be able to faceroll someone lower with equal or better gear than you cause opposite player deals nearly no damage on you. the game treats higher players like higher level mobs, the bigger the level gap the bigger the chance to miss/fail an attack. same goes with outgearing other players and the worst is a combination of both.

for pve just take the +15 or higher gear of your main, use it on a lvl 1 character and now youre just able to brain afk the entire pve content till lvl 55+ cause you outgear everything until Valencia.

If you want a propper pvp game you simply cant use a system with so many flaws and advantages for a minority (nolifers) of the playerbase. with flaws i mean the horrible class balance and the even worst cc system. the advantages are already explained above. if youre honest, most of the awakenings so far are only 1 maybe 2 button shows atleast for what ive seen so far.

If the game was using equalized gear and level in pvp most of you "git gud you nub" plebs (to say it with your words) would be steamrolled 99% of the time. nolife+p2w your ass to heaven and hammering the "i win button" doesnt mean you have skill nor a clue about what youre doing. stop dreaming and face the truth. =)

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Posted

On a serious note, if you dislike RNG, then just avoid it entirely.

focus on trading and grinding to get monster sellibles and items, farm tokens you can trade in for black stones and force stuff to 15 repairing as you go, then just trade trade trade trade trade trade trade trade trade until you have LOTS oh moneys then just buy high end gear right from the auction house.

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Posted

On a serious note, if you dislike RNG, then just avoid it entirely.

focus on trading and grinding to get monster sellibles and items, farm tokens you can trade in for black stones and force stuff to 15 repairing as you go, then just trade trade trade trade trade trade trade trade trade until you have LOTS oh moneys then just buy high end gear right from the auction house.

 good luck buying tri accessories....

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Posted

 good luck buying tri accessories....

3 bil pre-order easy tri

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Posted

3 bil pre-order easy tri

I meant they virtually never get sold...go place your preorder

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Posted

So the game has lost a great amount of players since release for many different reason but the top reason is definitely the RNG system. That great system where your progress doesn't matter or how many hours you've spend grinding and farming. People are here to have fun not to play lucky slots and yeah i get it, it has to be hard to enchant items, make them better, etc but throwing an RNG system on everything is not a solution... it's lazy development. Most players if not all hate that especially when it comes to enhancing accessories which is too punishing. We all know that the player base is dropping and for those that don't well, open your eyes and speak. Today i lost a bunch of good accessories because i wasn't lucky since that's all you need to make your character stronger. Yeah there are those times that your enchantment succeeded and you loved it but why make something so fun rely on luck?

 

Anyway i know this topic wont change a single thing because the developers are on "Don't Care" mode but at least i said what i wanted to say. I will keep playing this game but I'm honestly really bummed by some stuff that ruin the fun of the game and i don't get it why do they have to add those fun ruiners in something that can be just plain fun while being difficult at the same time. I'd hate to see this game go F2P or even shut down but that's ordinary nowadays i guess.

Your opinion is just stupid..... have you ever player ever quest or ultima lol?

 

What you expect in life, everything is easy to get and there is no fail? thats the best thing, its like business you have to bet some times you loose sometimes you win, if there was no RNG, all people would be the same, and being strong would be easy for everyone, whats the fun in that? all games loose players when started, than stabilise a community, your comment is stupid and worthless, you blame the developers, blame yourself for being unsuccessful and unlucky, probably the same in your real life, just a looser

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That was not the discussion at all. The discussion was about if GW2 & WoW was considered a "fair" game. No they are in fact not.

GW2 is probably one of THE very few MMOs where competitive nature is fair. Whether it be PvP or PvE, and yes, leaderboards exist for both of those.  

About 900+ active people on Jordine quit this game the minute "Can now be sold in the cash shop" or "Artisan's Memory can now be purchased for 50 pearls each" came onto the announcement / news pages. This game was a contending MMO, it was new and deterred from the standard eastern P2W bullshit (I'm talking about cash-shop power boosts [Artisan's Memory] rather than the selling stuff on marketplace <- that seems to be the common definition of 'p2w' with dead-poor people,) the graphics, art style and the PvP were great but of course there were small things before that, which drove hardcore pvpers away. Such as:

PvP penalty being removed

- Karma system being dead retarded

- Barely any rewards from battlegrounds

- No longer being able to war any guilds that don't have active wars (talk about cancer for grinding).

And now you come on here talking as if you've played since beta hardcore and know absolutely everything there is about the game but can't actually seem to pinpoint the reasons why a lot of the hardcore playerbase left in the first place. Quit talking out of your asses and do some research on the forums. The general direction of the game was always promising but it was those small things and then the cash shop / broken promises that pushed people. #Strawthatbroke.

This game needs seriously no skill in pvp and even lesser in pve.

It takes skill and organisation to work out how to use your time effectively in PvP, knowing what gives you gold and skill points, with a bit of experience on the side. 

In my old guild, there was a guy who was WAY ahead of me in terms of gear progression called Gendo, had his alchemy stone (I didn't) at least +40 Ap and +70 DP on me but I ruined him because he didn't know how to counter his own class (lol).

Why The Game Lost So Many Players ?

 

Where? I dont see Playe lost

The game lost competitive hardcore players, that is all. All the carebears and roleplayers still kept playing.

Another person that thinks they can get a tri ogre ring with only 4 rings

 

luck has very little to do with things in the long run. 

That's BS and you know it. Very lucky people vs Unlucky people can be the difference from having BiS gear in any game within a month or 6 months, especially a Korean game.

Justwanted to add, that GW2 is P2W as well.

And due to the combat, I think it take less skills, but that's just my opinion.

 

Everyone is not equal in Spvp, still need to unlock amulets and runes.. You can get the fairly easy, but everyone is not equal.

 

Tbh I think BDO is in a good spot. It is not for everyone, and those have mostly quit anyway, have no idea why they try to get more people to follow them though.

I just returned after a break, and feel like the game have wastely improved. There is alot of content, so take your sweet time.

You can change skills on the fly.

Easier to grind at lowlvl <56

But still need a better CPU for the bosses :)

GW2 is not P2W. You cannot buy insane power or save time from the cash shop, you literally get your gears from doing a dungeon for 2 hours? Whereas Artisan's Memory (Cash-shop only item, you know, THE ACTUAL -----ING MEANING OF P2W) in BDO can save you hundreds of hours and billions of silver.

Your dream already exists even though you may have already played it. Guild Wars 2 is a game in which it can be challenging in some areas. Players play on a semi equal field in gw2. Getting the top end statted gear is not hard. 

 

It requires literally next-to-no effort to obtain BiS gear in GW2.

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BDO lost some players but its still going strong and that is only because the game has implemented AFK gameplay without this the game would be almost close to ded game

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1) - overpirced cash shop Depends on your wealth, country, and knowledge from other games like Tera (that is what I call overprice). BDO is not overprice for me.

2) - broken class balance No way you or any other are able to say that before all the awakenings is out.

3) - broken AP - DP balance turning that game into a Call of Dooty one shoot boom pvp. That I do agree. AP scales way more than DP. I give you that one.

4) - Mindless rng powercreep gear upgrade. This is an mmo!

5) - no skill pvp because everything rely on your gear power 100% bullsh*t.

6) - not that challenging pve True, yet I never seen "challenging" pve before in a mmo.

7) - ubber desync wasting that great action based fight I got no desync after the recent patch.

8) - Not even decent in game customization because everything is cash shop locked ( even if sure we can now buy CS outfit on the market ),  cash shop locked dye.. What the hell are you talking about, lol?

1) Point is - if you bring just vanity items, nobody cares. If you bring game relevant stuff (Tears, small but in sum pricey) this is pure greed. Gives a publisher a bad rep, thus looses players. The standard company CEO is just to dumb to realize the long-term effects, because of short-term income of fresh, trying players.

2) dunno - every game has those.

3) This is true.

4) Being an MMO is not an excuse for Rip-Off RNG. It´s lazy game design and a typical sign of non-successful mmos - the good ones manged without those.

5) just 70% BS, but gear has too big of an impact.

6) Soooo you killed off every raid/world boss with ease like back in Vanilla WoW/BC when you still needed skill to actually survive a normal or at least heroic instance? Hm... yo da man!

7) That maybe so - but if an issue like that sticks around long enough, game looses players to due inept programming skills.

8) I don´t get his point either, but selling dye on a CS ist just the last straw if you need evidence if a game is pure greed by design.

BDO is a lost cause. Cash Shop->Concealed Subscription on a B2P promise (which was BS from the start)->Merge

Those are signs of a slow death. Slow but steady and Kakao´s only creativity will be, how they can extort more money from their dwindling customer base instead of finally getting a revelation.

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Are just playing dense or are you actually -----ing retarded?

GW2 is probably one of THE very few MMOs where competitive nature is fair. Whether it be PvP or PvE, and yes, leaderboards exist for both of those. When people proved you wrong, you resorted to "git gud" as a comeback, are you autistic or 12? Let me know which. 

About 900+ active people on Jordine quit this game the minute "Can now be sold in the cash shop" or "Artisan's Memory can now be purchased for 50 pearls each" came onto the announcement / news pages. This game was a contending MMO, it was new and deterred from the standard eastern P2W bullshit (I'm talking about cash-shop power boosts [Artisan's Memory] rather than the selling stuff on marketplace <- that seems to be the common definition of 'p2w' with dead-poor people,) the graphics, art style and the PvP were great but of course there were small things before that, which drove hardcore pvpers away. Such as:

PvP penalty being removed

- Karma system being dead retarded

- Barely any rewards from battlegrounds

- No longer being able to war any guilds that don't have active wars (talk about cancer for grinding, CupCakeThunder loved it though).

And now you plebs come on here talking as if you've played since beta hardcore and know absolutely everything there is about the game but can't actually seem to pinpoint the reasons why a lot of the hardcore playerbase left in the first place. Quit talking out of your asses and do some research on the forums. The general direction of the game was always promising but it was those small things and then the cash shop / broken promises that pushed people. #Strawthatbroke.

It takes skill and organisation to work out how to use your time effectively in PvP, knowing what gives you gold and skill points, with a bit of experience on the side. 

In my old guild, there was a guy who was WAY ahead of me in terms of gear progression called Gendo, had his alchemy stone (I didn't) at least +40 Ap and +70 DP on me but I ruined him because he didn't know how to counter his own class (lol).

The game lost competitive hardcore players, that is all. All the carebears and roleplayers still kept playing.

You're an idiot.

That's BS and you know it. Very lucky people vs Unlucky people can be the difference from having BiS gear in any game within a month or 6 months, especially a Korean game.

GW2 is not P2W you -----ing moron. You cannot buy insane power or save time from the cash shop, you literally get your gears from doing a dungeon for 2 hours? Whereas Artisan's Memory (Cash-shop only item, you know, THE ACTUAL -----ING MEANING OF P2W) in BDO can save you hundreds of hours and billions of silver.

It requires literally next-to-no effort to obtain BiS gear in GW2.

You are so toxic.. Sure you ever played gw2 ;)

We cannot discuss this together due to your lav of manner, and lack of peoples opinions.

GW2 is p2w.. You can buy legendary weapons which is BiS. You can buy booster. More bag slots, banks slot, mat slot etc.

And that is what most ppl claims to be p2w.

Since I do not strive to be the best in a videogame, it doesn't matter to much, as long as I have fun.

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You are so toxic.. Sure you ever played gw2 ;)

We cannot discuss this together due to your lav of manner, and lack of peoples opinions.

GW2 is p2w.. You can buy legendary weapons which is BiS. You can buy booster. More bag slots, banks slot, mat slot etc.

And that is what most ppl claims to be p2w.

Since I do not strive to be the best in a videogame, it doesn't matter to much, as long as I have fun.

Legendaries don't have additional stats, they are cosmetic. I should know, I have nearly the entire collection, SHOCKING. What boosters? You mean exp boosters, when you can get to level 80 in about <13 hours? Oh damn, that -----ing rush right there!

One wouldn't argue that these things equate to p2w. What equates to p2w to people is buying direct power from the cash shop, something that can cut grinding times by hundreds of hours or by millions of the currency. As I listed above, Artisan's Memory does just that, and how long is it going to be before they introduce Valk's Cry?

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I literally have no words for the level of stupidity you have just typed out.

Legendaries don't have additional stats, they are cosmetic. I should know, I have nearly the entire collection, SHOCKING. What boosters? You mean exp boosters, when you can get to level 80 in about <13 hours? Oh damn, that -----ing rush right there!

Anyone with a goddamn brain wouldn't argue that these things equate to p2w. What equates to p2w to people with a -----ing brain, like myself, is buying direct power from the cash shop, something that can cut grinding times by hundreds of hours or by millions of the currency. As I listed above, Artisan's Memory does just that, and how long is it going to be before they introduce Valk's Cry?

ignoring your insults, since you cannot write without them.

It is still p2W imo, because, if you played GW2, legendary is better than exotic, and you can change stats on the fly. 

Boosters might not be good in terms of gain per gem, but give an edge, same with infinite tools, infinite teleport scrolls.

Our discussion is not whether it has a tiny imoact or a huge impact.

And fo not know why you feel so strong about this? By all means, I do not stop you for playing GW2, I play is myself.

And if I called it a FPS (which would be wrong, but hey) why should you care?

Honestly, look at you response, not the points, they are good enough, but the fillers.

You are probably a good person irl, but as with driverseats, keyboard brungs up the worst in people.

Typing without consequenses. 

Though I find GW2 more fair since you can get gems from ingame currency. And could hope for the same with pearls. 

Again I play for fun.. so sometimes I wonder why I am active on forums and reddit -__-

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