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Questions

23 posts in this topic

Posted

I'm looking for a class to main and had some questions.

1) How is this class in pvp and pve?

2) Does the class have good sustain?

3) Is the class mobile?

4) What about some pros and cons about tamer?

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Posted

I'm looking for a class to main

I feel like this approach wil already break your neck.

1) Have you actually looked at the Tamer forum? Probably the biggest question of them all. - You have double pull limit in PvE though and pet got fixed for the most part so it's actually a little more useful now.

2) Yes, no, maybe. Awakening regens health and mana at a very high rate. I never need to use pots but I use Flash with the sustain addons just in case (this is bad and I should feel bad for it)

3) Yes, no, maybe. You aren't a racecar but you zip around pretty fast (one of the faster classes imo but some disagree). Get ready to get stunned during movement.

4) forum search function <- use it

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Posted

1) 1v1 is giod but hard to master. GvG its so so u will be doing 1v1 or assisting ur teammates. 

2) imo its pretty bad. 

3) Small movement yes its pretty mobil (need to switch weapons a lot for it) for long distance not so much if u try to scape or chase someone u will most likely to fail at it (cloud ride is good but it cloud stomped is slow) 

4) Its pretty fun and if u want a challenge then go for it. If u wanna an easy class then tamer its not the class u should go for or u will rage quit. 

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Posted

1) 1v1 is giod but hard to master. GvG its so so u will be doing 1v1 or assisting ur teammates. 

2) imo its pretty bad. 

3) Small movement yes its pretty mobil (need to switch weapons a lot for it) for long distance not so much if u try to scape or chase someone u will most likely to fail at it (cloud ride is good but it cloud stomped is slow) 

4) Its pretty fun and if u want a challenge then go for it. If u wanna an easy class then tamer its not the class u should go for or u will rage quit. 

Tamer had hella bad sustain b4, the last patch however made heialng dance sustain extremely incredible, heals around ~600 hp  every dance+echo off cd, so 600hp every 4 second. As for mana, if u group mobs properly you shoudnt have problems with mana pre awk or post awk. 

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Posted (edited)

I'm looking for a class to main and had some questions.

1) How is this class in pvp and pve?

2) Does the class have good sustain?

3) Is the class mobile?

4) What about some pros and cons about tamer?

Depends on how good you want to become. If you have a lot of time and effort pick it. Tamer is just a hard class to master.

 Otherwise just play Blader :)

Edited by rximmortal

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Posted

I'm looking for a class to main and had some questions.

1) How is this class in pvp and pve?

2) Does the class have good sustain?

3) Is the class mobile?

4) What about some pros and cons about tamer?

If you plan on grinding forget about tamer and roll something good in pve to gear up and then if u really like it y can reroll.

iif u lifeskill you cacan do iit but uwill be a step behind others and expecially if u are behind the gear curve u will get dumpstered a lot.

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Posted (edited)

Heilang dance revamp is the new sustain, it hits hard as heck now as a down attack. Basically they rightly made it so anything repetitive  will lower your sustain a ton.

But they really made some annoying cancels for the tamer. The one I'm having the hardest time getting right is gust/leaves ->heilang dance. It directly cancels into the 3rd hit, which is also a float. (you can also do it in cloud, but not as useful)

The toolset for tamer is not easy to master. You can pretty much tell how good a tamer is by how fast and accurately they can move around the battlefield.

The pro to a tamer is how fast and quick they can burst and escape, much like what ninjas do but with much longer range and much shorter window.

The con to a tamer is it's heavily reliant on CC, which tamers are never unfamiliar with anyway, but worse now, because any awaken class will have their own super armor.

The adjoining con to a tamer is that now float has become the most important CC, and float is not 100%. You have to make a split second decision to realize your float didn't proc, and escape.

The current tamers I believe the most important lesson they haven't had to deal with before is to always have a escape plan. Some of it which can be solved with AP(or pre buffs like perfume). We once faught a very high AP tamer, and she could murder everyone in before you can spot her, and even our zerkers, which is no joke because they have 4500HP~ and then disappear

Edited by Kuu

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Posted (edited)

 

But they really made some annoying cancels for the tamer. The one I'm having the hardest time getting right is gust/leaves ->heilang dance. It directly cancels into the 3rd hit, which is also a float. (you can also do it in cloud, but not as useful)

 

what you are talking about in your example is flow intimidation and not a heilang dance cancel.

It's also funny how some people believe tamer isn't good at pve. Actually tamer has the best sustained dps of all classes.

Edited by Arlinn
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Posted

what you are talking about in your example is flow intimidation and not a heilang dance cancel.

It's also funny how some people believe tamer isn't good at pve. Actually tamer has the best sustained dps of all classes.

It is and it's not, since it can be done outside the scope of the tooltip. It procs in other places. There are quite a few of those.

what you are talking about in your example is flow intimidation and not a heilang dance cancel.

It's also funny how some people believe tamer isn't good at pve. Actually tamer has the best sustained dps of all classes.

It is and it's not, since it can be done outside the scope of the tooltip. It procs in other places. There are quite a few of those.

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Posted

If you plan on grinding forget about tamer and roll something good in pve to gear up and then if u really like it y can reroll.

Whats the problem? In my opinion tamer pve is great.

If you plan on grinding forget about tamer and roll something good in pve to gear up and then if u really like it y can reroll.

Whats the problem? In my opinion tamer pve is great.

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Posted

Imo pve tamers are very good at it. We may not do as much damage but we can pull more mobs then any other classes allowing to kill larger groups with less mob coordination. PvP... 1v1 a good tamer will win most the time...our toolkit does troll you. It's true that both us and heilang takes way more magic damage than other claaea so be worry of other tamers, rangers, witch wiz, and soc, and soon dark elves....all classes that have long ranges attacks...

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Posted

Get ready to get stunned during movement.

THIS!

Most of my crystals are for stun resistance.

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Posted (edited)

Tamer is a high skillcap fast paced class with an intricate kit that is both challenging and rewarding to master. If you want to be successful in PVP you need to either play an aggressive style or find ways to bait people into getting picked off. The biggest thing is judgement and positioning as you must pick your moments and be expecting to have to make a godly escape. Tamer farms incredibly quickly and with the lolihop you can now polevault right on top of mobs to further maximize your clear speed.

Sustain with awakening is now great and you don't use much MP. I recommend this class to anyone who values a challenge and is willing to take the time to master mechanics. 

Edited by Zinedity

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Posted (edited)

Imo pve tamers are very good at it. We may not do as much damage but we can pull more mobs then any other classes allowing to kill larger groups with less mob coordination. PvP... 1v1 a good tamer will win most the time...our toolkit does troll you. It's true that both us and heilang takes way more magic damage than other claaea so be worry of other tamers, rangers, witch wiz, and soc, and soon dark elves....all classes that have long ranges attacks...

I don't know how you do it. I can't get heilang to pull mobs to where I am, he just attacks a pack of mobs and they just attack back, where he is... It's very annoying because he actually messes up my mob pulling. But regardless, how many mobs you can pull should be irrelevant because you should just be killing the right camps and moving on, in such case tamer is not the best because her actual AOE is not as good as other classes. For me the most annoying thing about tamer pve is the knockback. Almost all of tamer's damaging skills knock all the mobs back and out of your already small aoe range. >: like wtf, im trying to kill mobs here, can I turn off knockback -> since it's useless in pvp it's not helpful at all??? The skills I'm talking about are Bolt/Jolt, LBD turtle, and 100% :/

One thing I want to know other tamers' opinions on (even more than pve) is heilangs aggro, specifically (can you actually do afk relic bosses and how?)

Edited by Lynkx

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Posted

I don't know how you do it. I can't get heilang to pull mobs to where I am, he just attacks a pack of mobs and they just attack back, where he is... It's very annoying because he actually messes up my mob pulling. But regardless, how many mobs you can pull should be irrelevant because you should just be killing the right camps and moving on, in such case tamer is not the best because her actual AOE is not as good as other classes. For me the most annoying thing about tamer pve is the knockback. Almost all of tamer's damaging skills knock all the mobs back and out of your already small aoe range. >: like wtf, im trying to kill mobs here, can I turn off knockback -> since it's useless in pvp it's not helpful at all??? The skills I'm talking about are Bolt/Jolt, LBD turtle, and 100% :/

One thing I want to know other tamers' opinions on (even more than pve) is heilangs aggro, specifically (can you actually do afk relic bosses and how?)

Hi, usually I use Void Lightning to call Heilang at my position then do my moves to kill everyone, though yeah knockback can be a little 9_9 when using some skills, I'd also like to know what is everyone else's method, thank you.

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Posted

I don't know how you do it. I can't get heilang to pull mobs to where I am, he just attacks a pack of mobs and they just attack back, where he is... It's very annoying because he actually messes up my mob pulling. But regardless, how many mobs you can pull should be irrelevant because you should just be killing the right camps and moving on, in such case tamer is not the best because her actual AOE is not as good as other classes. For me the most annoying thing about tamer pve is the knockback. Almost all of tamer's damaging skills knock all the mobs back and out of your already small aoe range. >: like wtf, im trying to kill mobs here, can I turn off knockback -> since it's useless in pvp it's not helpful at all??? The skills I'm talking about are Bolt/Jolt, LBD turtle, and 100% :/

One thing I want to know other tamers' opinions on (even more than pve) is heilangs aggro, specifically (can you actually do afk relic bosses and how?)

1. Turtle is a bound and doesn't push the mobs away!

2. Use BJ Kockdown to push mobs from behind in front of you. Very usefull to drag mobs together. Follow up with BJ -> Echo -> Turtle -> Dance. Everything is in range this way.

3. Allround Spinner push back isnt a problem. No CC able mob survive this anyway.

4. Double pull limit is huge. You have to adjust your playstyle. Dont stop for every group!

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Posted

I always start with void lighting where i want the mobs to gather. After that when the mobs r all in 1 place i do the flash tree combo followed by allround spinner, if anything survives that ill finish them of with echo pierce, heilang dance or auto attack. 

I think our double pull advantage can only be exploited on very few places where the mob density its 10+ per group. If we cant grind on those spots then tamer usually falls behind vs other classes clearing speed. Imo the best spots for tamers to grind r pirates (main, top and jungle [i dont like jungle at all], crescent main spot, bandits mainspot and pila ku (need very good gear). Sausans for tamers its horrible imo, yes there r big groups but the mobs in the groups r too far apart from each other and tamer AOE wont reach all of them. 

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Posted

I don't know how you do it. I can't get heilang to pull mobs to where I am, he just attacks a pack of mobs and they just attack back, where he is... It's very annoying because he actually messes up my mob pulling. But regardless, how many mobs you can pull should be irrelevant because you should just be killing the right camps and moving on, in such case tamer is not the best because her actual AOE is not as good as other classes. For me the most annoying thing about tamer pve is the knockback. Almost all of tamer's damaging skills knock all the mobs back and out of your already small aoe range. >: like wtf, im trying to kill mobs here, can I turn off knockback -> since it's useless in pvp it's not helpful at all??? The skills I'm talking about are Bolt/Jolt, LBD turtle, and 100% :/

One thing I want to know other tamers' opinions on (even more than pve) is heilangs aggro, specifically (can you actually do afk relic bosses and how?)

I usually keep Heilang on Follow instead of Attack in PvE so that he just pulls the mobs to where ever I am. He will still do his followup attacks even in follow mode and his regular auto attack damage is low anyways.

If the distance is too far I let him teleport on me with Void Lightning

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Posted (edited)

1. Turtle is a bound and doesn't push the mobs away!

2. Use BJ Kockdown to push mobs from behind in front of you. Very usefull to drag mobs together. Follow up with BJ -> Echo -> Turtle -> Dance. Everything is in range this way.

3. Allround Spinner push back isnt a problem. No CC able mob survive this anyway.

4. Double pull limit is huge. You have to adjust your playstyle. Dont stop for every group!

ok turtle dance is bound yeah. I use bolt/jolt too much then. However, right now I can't really adjust my playstyle until I get to Valencia or Pirates, atm i've had bad luck upgrading my gear. So I'm stuck at Sausans and similar areas with huge mob density and low health. Tamers in this situation have it worse than other classes because of a few reasons:

1. Mobs don't aggro automatically when you get close when you are at or above the mob's level. So you have to manually aggro them all (attack them)

2. With huge camps of 20+ mobs like at sausans/elrics even with double pull limit you can't pull them all, and even the combo you mentioned is best only on dense, pulled groups of mobs or single target.

3. The area you farm changes alot, the mob density, the type of mob density, how spaced apart, etc.

I always start with void lighting where i want the mobs to gather. After that when the mobs r all in 1 place i do the flash tree combo followed by allround spinner, if anything survives that ill finish them of with echo pierce, heilang dance or auto attack. 

I think our double pull advantage can only be exploited on very few places where the mob density its 10+ per group. If we cant grind on those spots then tamer usually falls behind vs other classes clearing speed. Imo the best spots for tamers to grind r pirates (main, top and jungle [i dont like jungle at all], crescent main spot, bandits mainspot and pila ku (need very good gear). Sausans for tamers its horrible imo, yes there r big groups but the mobs in the groups r too far apart from each other and tamer AOE wont reach all of them. 

This is what I was thinking. I know of Crescents and Pirates and those are good. So are Basilisks but I don't know if they give good exp/loot. Basically our pull potential can gather a bunch of scattered mobs that other classes would just skip over or take more time gathering. However, our aoes are small and not very spammable so on large groups like at sausans it takes longer to clear camps. It's true that we are better at large dense camps than small spaced out camps, but if the small camps are close enough together to aggro them into a big group then we can do that too, it just depends on the spot. Other classes will easily stop for smaller camps because of their better aoe and clear speed, as well as clear larger camps faster. It's not that we lack damage, it just doesn't come fast and easy (instant) or in large aoe like some other classes.

If I'm wrong about any of these things please correct me, I really want to learn the class well.

edit: i tried everything, afk relic scrolls are a no go :(

Edited by Lynkx

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Posted

Oh i forgot about ahman (probably need 250ap) and histria (don't think it's possible unless full pen MAYBE) those r the most dense spots in the game but u need God tier gear haha

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Posted

just taping RMB (whiplash, vermilion) after WW/LBP teleports heilang right on top of you

also why setting him on aggro while grinding ? just have him passive follow you his DMG is negligible

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Posted

benefit of heilang is double camp pulls, that is impossible with other classes. There are many ways to do this from line to triangle method.

The line method is something tamers should have learned by shear experience and instinct, but if you don't, it's running through one camp, into the second, and just enough to make heilang reset teleport to you, making the 2nd camp your kill zone while the 1st camp groups up (usually with void, or flash void)

If you want to be more complete and do new tricks, that's what attack command is for, as it'll point heilang to wherever you want to attack, you can aggro a farther camp, then use void to reset heilang at your current camp, this pulling that camp into  your current spot.

Finally the most obvious benefit of tamer grind, is the blob pull, where you have a dense spot that exceeds you, and you basically pull almost in a swirl, so that your heilang doesn't need to reset as you meet up with him for the clean up.

That's why rotations that you see with sorcs are laughable to a tamer, since they are made to hop from camp to camp, but tamers are made to hit 2 or 3 camps at once, especially spawners like tents/pillers that your heilang will instantly pull them all out.

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Posted

Tamer is PVE harvester :). Its best used in super high mob density

You can aggro 16 mobs and pull them to another group. As the group of mobs is getting smaller keep replenishing the group with new pulls if available.

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