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Gear too important


117 posts in this topic

Posted

I just do not see the disparity as huge./  As I said as long as it does not let someone face roll 1v2+ with less than say +6 difference, then I am ok with it.

Ya but if what others are saying is true in regards to stats, it currently is that way.  With spikes in stat levels being exponential and not linear.  That may be the way the game was intended for korea/RU but wont really fly to well in large scale organized fights (especially with reduction in healing potions, etc).   Theres honestly too many variables involved with it at this point, well see come the 18th how bad it is at 15 (doubt many though), and hopefully the future enchants are being looked at. 

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Posted

I just do not see the disparity as huge./  As I said as long as it does not let someone face roll 1v2+ with less than say +6 difference, then I am ok with it.

From what I've seen a +6 difference at high enchant levels equals more than just a 1v2 slaughter.

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Posted

I don't care at all about "competitive" "esports" whatever. It is okay for a MMO to have gear matter. HOWEVER: The power differences need to be small, best with some sort of soft cap/logarithmic curve. This has the advantage that it's fairly easy to close the gap at the beginning (important for newer players), only the last percent of difference will be much harder. Sounds fair doesn't it?

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Posted

The entire way you structured this hurt my brain. From grammar to sentence organization. What the ----- happened here? 

It quite obviously reads as someone who does not have English as their main language.  How rude of you.

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Posted

I agree that the current gear power slope is a HUGE problem. However, I do not agree with some of the solutions I've seen while skimming the first page of this thread. All that needs to happen is to normalize the stat curve at +15, and then make the slope of stat power increase very shallow as you pass +15. 

For comparison, consider the only 5% power differential between "exotic" gear and "ascended" gear in GW2.

Grind more? Pay more in-world cash/resources? Sure, you should have more power. But no so much power as to exponentially outpace everyone else and make skill completely irrelevant.

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Posted

It quite obviously reads as someone who does not have English as their main language.  How rude of you.

People seem to forget that this is an international forum. I see people giving others a hard time about their English way too often.

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Posted

It quite obviously reads as someone who does not have English as their main language.  How rude of you.

Google translate. 

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Posted

If you take you time to level and acquire gear & hone your skills, then gear being important isn't a big deal. 

 

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Posted

Maybe the devs will actually leave in the +15 cap and instead of increasing everything to +18, they actually make a bunch of new weapons with different stats than the current 10 sets....Or add in game modes, different armor sets to upgrade... Vertical progression treadmill sucks the big donkey -----

The optimal game design would be

Level>Skill>Gear

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Posted (edited)

Cross my fingers for an eternal level capped gears at +15...

And i agree with LordOnichan.

Edited by Honeysuckle

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Posted

Maybe the devs will actually leave in the +15 cap and instead of increasing everything to +18, they actually make a bunch of new weapons with different stats than the current 10 sets....Or add in game modes, different armor sets to upgrade... Vertical progression treadmill sucks the big donkey -----

The optimal game design would be

Level>Skill>Gear

I completely agree except for your last statement. In my opinion

Skill>level>gear is better. Which is sadly, precisely the opposite of what it currently is.

I like the idea of being able to beat people as much as 5 levels above you if you are good enough. It's incredibly disheartening in level-dependant games, to see someone just 1 level above you and know you have no chance of winning that fight.

Level dependancy also encourages Ganking behavior because, in open pvp, people will only ever attack someone they outlevel cause they know they will win ahead of time. In a skill dependant game you could look at someone who outlevels you, and if you are confident about your capabilities in the game, might very well attack someone who has the numbers advantage.

I'm actually incredibly surprised the devs didn't go in the direction of skill-based with such a vibrant and well made combat system. Allowing numbers to dominate over player skill kinda shoots their awesome combat system in the foot. 

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Posted (edited)

@Newb

At the end of the day, the dev decisions are made because of what the general Korean gamer wants or expects.

Unfortunately they seem to like really shitty systems like p2w and unfair PvP (if they like PvP at all that is).

That being said, i'm hoping PA is truly willing to make the effort to change the game for the tastes of a particular region like they are telling us they are.

Edited by HeavensSword

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Posted (edited)

If you dont like it like this just leave. Have you guys even ever played any TRUE open world pvp game? you want instances,you want this you want that fck this. This game has huge potentional, its like the new Lineage II with way bigger in depth gameplay( which Lineage,by the way was the best pvp mmo ever and i dont give a fck if it was unbalanced as fck).. If you want fair 1v1s and arenas go play other game, this game is designed for mass pvps and guild wars and the way it is build it promotes it just fine

Yes, and in many of them even a month old character who has done research, acquired the needed skills/gear can put up a good fight vs someone who has been in the game for years...

PvP veterans in any game should rely on being ahead with knowledge/skill/experience, not mainly superior gear. That's just silly... imo

I think most of us giving BDO a go with the NA/EU release are just worried about what we have seen and heard about the balance issues post +15 gear on KR/RU.


 

I'm actually incredibly surprised the devs didn't go in the direction of skill-based with such a vibrant and well made combat system. Allowing numbers to dominate over player skill kinda shoots their awesome combat system in the foot. 


Couldn't agree more... I'm just as surprised O.o

Edited by Bipolo
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Posted

I was mostly a RO / early EQ player and I'm pretty excited about BDO. But if everyone's fears about stat/gear balancing from +15-20 are confirmed, there will most certainly be a huge drop in the number of players enjoying PvP. And seeing as endgame BDO is fairly PvP oriented, this would be very disheartening. It sounds like the most reasonable approach is addressing the stat curve of those upgrades, and that removing the RNG element to ensure grinding was king in endgame PvP wouldn't really resolve it.

If anything it would make more sense to retain the RNG element with the reduced stat gains, that way those who were lucky enough to get the higher tiers wouldn't be exponentially more powerful and hopefully the RNG element will keep the developers from thinking ahead to, 'Well, we made +20 take about 3 extra months of game time, so in three more months we'll have to boost the cap to +25.'

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Posted

Everyone who has played this game seems to agree that gear>levels>skill

Which makes me quite sad since the combat in this game is amazing, and having combat itself as the least important factor is just a waste.

I am not saying remove the grind, i am not saying remove gear or levels. But i think most would agree(remains to be seen in this thread i suppose) that skill should be the biggest factor, keep gear as difficult to obtain as they are already and the same for levels but decrease the stat boost you get from them(or at least gear) Changing numbers in gear should hopefully not be too time consuming or difficult to implement aswell.

 

I think it is fine that gear and levels do give an advantage, but it should not be a HUGE one. Not an advantage you cannot overcome by being a better player than your opponent.

so you want some smoe joe that play 1 hour a week logs in press button to get his arena done to  press a couple of macro that auto target cc/nuke burst to be equal in power as someone who spends 5+ hours to improve his gear?

 

go back to wow plz

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Posted

I agree that the current gear power slope is a HUGE problem. However, I do not agree with some of the solutions I've seen while skimming the first page of this thread. All that needs to happen is to normalize the stat curve at +15, and then make the slope of stat power increase very shallow as you pass +15. 

For comparison, consider the only 5% power differential between "exotic" gear and "ascended" gear in GW2.

Grind more? Pay more in-world cash/resources? Sure, you should have more power. But no so much power as to exponentially outpace everyone else and make skill completely irrelevant.

Such a small difference in ascended gear vs exotic gear in GW2 is why I don't play gw2 anymore. I got a soldiers exotic set and quit at 80. It wasn't enough incentive to work for the ascended gear.  

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Posted (edited)

Such a small difference in ascended gear vs exotic gear in GW2 is why I don't play gw2 anymore. I got a soldiers exotic set and quit at 80. It wasn't enough incentive to work for the ascended gear.  

Everyone has different incentives to continue a game they enjoy, if you don't gain a large boost in power anymore, then those people just stop i suppose.

 

Personally,I think that someone having a overwhelming advantage over you because they put in a unreasonable amount of time in while you have to take care of work/jobs in the real world would put me off from playing this game.

Edited by Farkon
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Posted

and they could simply remove the RNG component and put a system where you need a high number of blackstone for upgrade your gear... and this game will become nearly perfect, same as archeage or same as any other game that involved rng...

the problem is not really the gear scaling, the problem is the rng that can make people god or let people stay crap, only for the sake of the casuality...

i saw so many people asking for the rng removing on this forum, still hoping on some response from the dev...

its not an hard system in my opinion, instead of the rng you should put a very high number of blackstone need for the upgrade...

so instead of farming hoping for god to having a success, you farm more but with the security to improve yourself if you put effort

This makes a lot of sense. 

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Posted

Every mmo spins around pretty much same shit, gear>skill. get over it!

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Posted

I've been reading most of this, kinda surprised about some people thinking that even a strong +17 player can't beat a crappy +18, i'm really sceptical about this, haven't had the opportunity to play the game yet, to me it means there is a huuuuuuuuge stat gap between each level (like h(u³³³)ge gap), so if anyone can be kind enough to link me someplace where i can read more about this stat increase per level of enchant, that would be great.

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Posted

The game belong to MMORPG genre, no to fighting/FPS games genre. That is not Tekken or Counter-Strike but MMORPG game where develop character should means the most. So Gear and lvl should and must means more than mashing buttons*.

* And pls, do not call it skill. In all action games the thing what matter the most is ping. That is not acceptable for MMORPG with thousands of players.

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Posted (edited)

 I dont think this game will ever get a competitive game scene nor is it aiming for one. The only form of pvp here is open world pvp. Putting in bgs/arenas would defeat the purpose of the game honestly.

 

But that does not mean the game should be gear instead of skillbased.

competition doesn't have to be in an arena with jerseys and flags 

 

this is game is a competitive scene. Ranks for professions, top guilds, conquest ranking info in-guild, sieges, nose wars, fortresses.

Edited by Vhagar
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Posted

I feel players want something to work towards that to them, validates their time spent in-game, in this case and in most cases that is, it's gear. There are very few things in a game that make you feel as accomplished as having beastly gear and rare items. I agree that gear>skill shouldn't be a thing.

However as an example, a player wielding a butter knife should never beat another player wielding a chainsaw.

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Posted (edited)

I feel players want something to work towards that to them, validates their time spent in-game, in this case and in most cases that is, it's gear. There are very few things in a game that make you feel as accomplished as having beastly gear and rare items. I agree that gear>skill shouldn't be a thing.

However as an example, a player wielding a butter knife should never beat another player wielding a chainsaw.

but see that gear grind kills games.  Every game with a horribly boring gear grind  are only saved by one thing.. Fun pvp or a complete lack of competition.  With a ton of pvp games on the market the pvp better be up there or population tanks.

Basically you enjoy the look and the bonus hard work leads too.  Great.  But that samefeeling could easily be obtained by grinding away to get a rare drop or craft a skin for a weapon.   Both take time.and add player progression without killing endgame balance.   Drop the stat gains.. Make the +16-20 change overall appearance and bam. People work for it.  Give people options on effects... Etc. Glow.  There's so many ways you can go about doing this.   

Edited by Dissodant

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Posted (edited)

If you dont move or attack then no gear in the world will make you win. Therefore ability is still more important than gear. Being a 'better player' doesnt entitle you to win. Besides, if you actually were the better player, then why dont you have equal equipment? Oh right, because youre not as good of a player as the other guy. Your ability isnt exclusively being measured by how quickly you can press buttons. Being a genius doesnt make a millionaire either. You still have to work for it.

Can we please stop to have these pointless discussions now?

Are you trying to be this thick or does it come naturally ?

 

He's talking about gear, IDIOT, a no lifer living in moms basement playing 15 hours a day will beat a normal 3-4 hour a day player hands down everytime no matter how much skill the other guy has purely because of gear. You assertion is that you are a more skilled player because you have more time to grind gear ?

 

Jeezus how can people be this stupid ?

Edited by Joy_Energiser

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